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Airguns & (ex)Felons....we need to talk

December 29 2009 at 1:26 PM
Quackenbush  (Login DAQ)
YC

Lately I've been getting 2 calls or more a week from guys saying they have a felony conviction and they want an airgun. Last year, the statement of being a convicted felon didn't come up until more than half way through the conversation. As of late, it's changed to an announcement, right up front, that they're a convicted felon. Is this being candid or a set up?

If a person informs me that they're a convicted felon, I tell them that I need a letter from their parole officer, local law enforcement or their county judge stating that there would be no trouble with them possessing an airgun because they don't consider it to be a weapon.

Now, if you're in the same boat, don't take this personally, let's keep it informative. Because I'm not for restricting airguns, but I'm not going to do anything illegal.

Back to the letter for a moment. Many guys convicted of non-violent crimes shoot black powder guns because there is no restriction. But in my area, that doesn't hold up because the druggies have black powder revolvers that they use and the sherrifs in this area, when they pull over said person for weaving or a broken tail light, upon finding the BP revolver consider it to be a weapon and place them in custody. So in the morning a judge can figure it out, but they go to jail tonight and the revolver is confiscated. So if it was okay, and they had the letter in advance, they wouldn't have been arrested. Or, if they couldn't get the letter and didn't have the gun with them they wouldn't have been arrested either.

In some states, you either have to have a permit or be legally able to own a firearm in order to purchase an airgun. So a felon, ex or not, would not be able to purchase an airgun, due to the state restrictions.

So what is rest of the forum members experience with this?

 
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AuthorReply


(Login tripleguy)
YFOT

Slippery slope Dennis

December 29 2009, 1:42 PM 

I'm surprised this hasn't come up before, but as powerful airguns gain more publicity, I'll bet this will become more common discussion.

As a manufacturer/retailer I would be trying to do all that I can within reason to limit sales to convicted felons. You know how our legal system is - if there is a violent crime committed with one of your guns, the sharks will come after the smell of blood and no matter the issue didn't come up in conversation, you'll be pulled into the mess. I think you're right in asking folks with felony convictions, no matter what letter their parole officer produces. I'd have it right in the terms and conditions of your sales contract and make sure you mention it right up front. Get a signature from anyone who purchases your guns attesting they have been convicted of a felony. It may never be needed, but you have to protect yourself just in case. As a law abiding citizen, I wouldn't have any problem signing something like that.

Now one could argue that a felon, if they want a gun, isn't going to mess around with an air rifle - they'll just obtain a firearm illegally. True, but they will also use whatever is at their disposal when they are desperate. Just my $.02.

"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."

 
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(Login wisconsinwalter)
YF

Felons can be law abiding citizens as well!

December 29 2009, 2:24 PM 

Bad things happen to good people. Get over your piousness and thank the Lord you have never been arrested at some point of your life. I guarantee 100% of you have done something illegal once in your life that could be considered a felony.

Felons are disenfranchised for the term of their sentence from normal rights enjoyed by the masses. The gun freaks and liberals have made it to where you do not gain your constitutional rights back after you paid your debt. Most states allow a pardon process after 15 years since sentence completion to be reenfranchised back into the system with no residual offenses. The recitivism rates are much higher in certain cultural and geographic locations.

If I was a Manufacturer, I would simply look up the game laws for the State of residence to see if a felon can hunt small game with an air rifle.

Quit painting all felons with a broad brush.

I AM A FELON

I make over $85,000 a year
I have two degrees since my conviction.
I am a Marine
I am a service connected Disabled Marine

All I did was break a window and beat my wife's boyfriend who was taking my children away in the middle of the night.

Justice is often only for those who could afford it.

 
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(Login tripleguy)
YFOT

Fine Walt - then mark the X and sign for it

December 29 2009, 2:37 PM 

I don't give a damn what you did or didn't do. All I'm saying is it wouldn't hurt to have a disclaimer on your sales contract with a check box and signature line. I didn't say not to sell - I said have it disclosed. Last time I checked there is a law in this country prohibiting felons from owning firearms. I don't want to get in a pissing match about what is or isn't a firearm - that's established. I'm not on any high horse here - just stating that's the way it is in the litigious US of A. If I were in the business, I'd cover my ass royally.

"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."

 
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(Login wisconsinwalter)
YF

I will when asked

December 29 2009, 3:09 PM 

I am not afraid because I know the law and strive to live by it.

 
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Brushy Bill
(Login BrushyBill)
YF

You are correct,

December 29 2009, 2:49 PM 

I have a good friend who was convicted
of a felony, 9 years ago. It was considered
a violent felony.

He did his time, and is living life as
he should. He gets very good paying
jobs, when folks are willing to hire him.

It is a shame that folks still want
to continue to punish him even though
he has paid his punishment. He has not even
received a traffic ticket since being released
from his one year sentence 8 years ago.

In the state we live in, it is not
illegal for a felon to own an air rifle.

And he owns many. If a custom manufacturer
wants to restrict sales to a convicted
felon, that is his business.

But In my opinion, he is just further
punishing a law abiding citizen.

I think it would better for a manufacture
to have a statement verifying that
there are no laws in your state prohibiting
the purchaser from owning an air rifle.

That covers everyone.

 
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(Login wisconsinwalter)
YF

It is a tough stigma to live with

December 29 2009, 3:27 PM 

Tell your friend to research the pardon process in your state. It is free and does not require a lawyer to do.

I had to wait 15 years after my probation was over to get my application accepted. Once the Gov signs it, my record becomes expunged.

BTW, I applied because I needed a passport for my job, not because I wanted to get my guns back. I have been without them for so long, I don't feel the need.

It is funny to read some of these responses. They are advocates for gun control. Whats next misdeamenors?

 
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(Login tripleguy)
YFOT

Unfortunatly, our system requires sign-offs

December 29 2009, 3:55 PM 

I know there are lots of ex-felons who will not commit another felony. I know there are lots of felons who were locked up under dubious charges. But there are also millions of folks who are guilty, without remorse and eager to do it again. That's what laws against firearm ownership try to prevent. Do they work - probably NOT.

But if you own a business, you've got to always to mindful of laws, entrapment and liability. All I'm suggesting is do whatever it is you (or your legal counsel) thinks is necessary to limit your liability. It's not anti-gun, it's anti-lawsuit.

"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."

 
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(Login Riversidesports)
YF

and there a millions more folks that got away with their felonies...

December 29 2009, 4:25 PM 

I can name dozens of folks in my life who committed numerous felonies as young adults, some drugs, others thefts...even a few rapes and vilent assaults that were never charged.
The biggest drug dealer when I was in college is today a US Federal Prosecutor.
The town dope dealer in the community I grew up in is now the City Attorney
Know a scumbag who violently raped a girl in my high school, today he is Chief of Police in a smaller metropolitan center...
its pure myth that its some minor percentage of the population commits the majority of felony criminal acts...the truth is that its a minor percentage of the body of the citizen that doesn't commit a number of Felony Criminal acts over the course of their lives

 
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(Login wisconsinwalter)
YF

I agree with you to an extent

December 29 2009, 4:19 PM 

I think your numbers are high regarding the recitivism rates. Inner cities i can understand those numbers. But I would say 90% of guys convicted of felonies are of the lowest class of felonies. Most are over a woman, drugs or drunk driving. Murderers and thieves and the like are what you are referring to.

To say that all manufacturers should implement controls, is gun control. What you should really say is that the small time guys should better protect themselves by knowing the laws regarding the States of their buyers and having proper liability clauses somehow posted, listed or otherwise known to perspective buyers.

Non felons can commit felonies using the manufacturer's gun as well, then what? More regulation?


 
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(Login tripleguy)
YFOT

That's what I was saying

December 29 2009, 4:30 PM 

What you should really say is that the small time guys should better protect themselves by knowing the laws regarding the States of their buyers and having proper liability clauses somehow posted, listed or otherwise known to perspective buyers.

That's what I was saying Walt. Cover thine arse.

"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."

 
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(Login wisconsinwalter)
YF

I agree with you to an extent, again... Let's talk about liability

December 29 2009, 4:52 PM 

You are right in the protection for legitimate businesses. Bill, I am not arguing with you. Every once in a while my back get's up over this topic. I have paid my dues long ago. I just want to live like the next guy.

For 44 years, 12 months 30 days 23 hours and 58 minutes I have been a an upstanding, law abiding citizen like everyone else. For two minutes in my entire life I lost disipline and it cost me a life sentence for gun ownership until my pardon is approved.

Now to a can of worms that never gets mentioned..

Are all of the small time tuners, stock makers and custom builders all filing 1099's or have protected themselves by forming a corporation or LLC??? I doubt it.

There so many guys doing it, but, what happens if I buy a DAQ and his gun blows up in my face? Can I sue him? Should they be required to prove they are a legitimate business?

MR QAUCKENBUSH, I AM ONLY USING YOU AS AN EXAMPLE, PLEASE DON'T TAKE OFFENSE.

I am sure the bigger time guys have liability insurance to cover this. i am just putting the shoes on the other foot for a change.

 
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(Login dbigkahunna)
YF

Regaining Rights

December 29 2009, 5:45 PM 

Even after your pardon, you will have to make application to ATF for their approval. And it is not automatic. You may have to get letters of recommendation from citizens of your county of residence who have known you for a long time. The pardon expunges all record, but the ATF form ask if you have been convicted. Once you get the letter from ATF you can check the box no.
Shipping a air gun into a restricted state from a non restrictive state to me is up to the purchaser. Someone in the airgun sales business could have problems but I do not see where someone in Ill could buy a gun from someone in TX and the person in Texas could have any liability for it. If the person from Il came to my house in TX and bought it how id it my responsibility to know where he is taking it?
If owning the airgun is illegal in your state of residence then it is your responsibility to know th laws of your jurisdiction. Not me.

 
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(Login Riversidesports)
YF

incorrect on the restoration...

December 29 2009, 6:00 PM 

Heres how it works...
if your conviction is State based and its either expunged or pardoned thats it, you are done. For The Purposes of the GCAs restrictions at the Federal level The Felony record is gone unless the expunging court or Governor sets aside firearms rights from their actions.
Another area that comes up is when the defendant receives a Stay of Imposition. The Felony then automatically reverts to non Felony status upon completion of the supervision period...again you are lawful to possess regulated firearms.
ATF used to have a Restoration of Civil Rights division which was required when the GCA was passed in 68' The division was able to restore firearms rights regardless of Federal or State conviction.
Funding for the division was pulled from the 92' budget & not by the action of Liberal Democrats but rather by Conservative Republicans in answer to lobby efforts by non other than the NRA.
Since 92' there has been no remedy at the Federal level for Firearms prohibitions short of a Presidential Pardon.
in short you can still take care of State issues and regain RKBA
if your case went Federal you are SOL unless you can afford to donate a considerable sum to a Presidential campaign of EITHER party

 
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Quackenbush
(Login DAQ)
YC

The NRA fought hard to get the restoration of gun rights

December 29 2009, 8:59 PM 

Getting non-violent offenders their gun rights back has been a work of the NRA. Especially automatic restraining orders that then makes an otherwise law abiding citizen into a firearms violation criminal was fought with NRA members money to get lawyers for fellows who couldn't afford this anti-gun law. As an NRA member I totally agree with the expenditure of funds to fight these bad laws.

In 1992 Clinton was elected along with a majority of democrats in congress.

 
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(Login Riversidesports)
YF

it was the 92' Budget which was written in 91'...

December 29 2009, 9:24 PM 

crazy situation...
Josh Sugarman had just left HCI, {now the Brady Campaign to prevent handgun violence} and Founded the Violence Policy Center, {which by the way also opposes airguns, toy guns, air soft or anything sharp & pointy}. Sugarman's first legislative target for his new lobby was the Civil Rights Restoration division of ATF. The idea was that VPC would be able to corner the NRA into looking as tho it supported armed felons. The NRA-ILA caught wind of the operation and lobbied Arlen Spector & Larry Craig to pull all future funding for any background checks for those that applied for restorations. It was near impossible to eliminate the divisions its existence was mandated under the GCA & further amounted to a form of in servanti viti/partial attainder of rights...basically they threw felons under the bus as there were bigger fights on the horizon.
To this day the division exists but can only send out letters of denial.
Picked up most of this data years ago from the former Director of the Firearms & Technology Branch of ATF, Ed Owens who was actually quite the serious gun nut himself & verified it with a buddy who worked with the ILA
sad deal but it was the NRA and Law & Order Republicans who did this crap.
Not saying the NRA is evil but they have done a number of rather dirty backroom/backdoor deals over the years.
Still better than nothing

 
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Tad
(Login TadIsaacson)
YF

Thank you for your service to our Country.

December 29 2009, 7:39 PM 


 
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(Login USMCShooter)
YF

Semper Fi Walter! And well said....a buddy of mine

December 30 2009, 10:21 PM 

is fighting right now for his rights as well....and his retirement from the vA....

s/f

Jamie

 
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(Login wisconsinwalter)
YF

Thanks Jaime!

December 31 2009, 7:12 AM 

It means the world to me that my USMC brothers don't condemn me. Especially an officer! I always have your back!

Semper Fi and happy new year for you and your family Sir!

 
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(Login startedwa24)
YF

More than Felony convictions

January 2 2010, 4:45 PM 

A more restrictive conviction than a felony record is a domestic violence conviction. It's imposition restricts ownership of firearms forever by Federal law if I'm not mistaken. Anybody know more about this one?

 
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(Login wisconsinwalter)
YF

Don't know

January 2 2010, 5:04 PM 

I had recklessness, class d in IN It would make sense though

 
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(Login matthewbriscoe)

Edited, by the MOD squad. I've let some stuff slide.

December 29 2009, 5:13 PM 

If you can't say something intelligent don't say anything.

 
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Bill S.
(Login tripleguy)
YFOT

I don't think I'm anything Mathew

December 29 2009, 5:25 PM 

Certainly not God as I don't particularly claim to know who that is. As for no one caring what my $.02 is, that's OK too. This forum and others exist for people to give it though. If you don't like it, then you hold your head high, suck it up and walk away. Or, intelligently disagree - it's up to you. Free speech - it's what this country was founded on last time I checked. Sorry if I ruffled the feathers of ex-cons, ex-pats, ex-wives, non-cons, illegal immigrants, etc. here. That was not my intent, nor was getting into a discussion that resembles gun control. I was merely offering that anyone engaged in selling guns (air or otherwise) needs to be concerned with liability and culpability. Forget it.

"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."

 
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(Login cgswss)
YF

MHO

December 29 2009, 6:11 PM 

FFL is for FIREARMS and doesnt define an air gun as a firearm. So on a Federal level, you are not required to do a 4473 or ask the questions on that form. If you are dealing in your state, you may have State laws that apply. I know of a lot of states that have regulations regarding air guns, but I dont know any that separate Felons from non felons. The only exception I can think of is pistols. Many states require purchase permits for handguns-even air powered hand guns. Of course if your state requires a permit- then felons cant buy them.

I have never gone into a store and asked if I was a felon when buying an air gun. Of course EVERY store will ask you that question if you buy a fire arm (via the 4473 form) (many states do not consider a muzzle loading gun a firearm) The only muzzle loading guns that REQUIRE a 4473 are those that have interchangeable barrels like Thompsons

If you are doing work on a customers air gun, you are more at risk from the work you are doing causing harm then selling to a felon. Dealers most likely already know that there is a big difference in insurance rates when you tell them you modify/fix guns rather then just sell them in sealed boxes.

So in my opinion, it is purely up to the dealer weather the question is even asked. Its sorta like the policy of most mass market stores that require one to be 18 before they can buy pellets while there is no law that restricts sale to minors.

 
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(Login cgswss)
YF

dup

December 29 2009, 6:52 PM 


 
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(Login jpsaxnc)
YFOT

Here in NC. a freinds wife got a restraining order on him,

December 29 2009, 1:46 PM 

Sheriff came out to there house, and took all firearms, as a saftey precaution, but left bigbore airgun, saying it was't classed as a firearm. Don't know about fellons though.?

 
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(Login Riversidesports)
YF

an RO makes you prohibited under the GCA just like a felon

December 29 2009, 2:40 PM 

thats the Lautenberg Act
other prohibited catagories:
if you have been ajudicated as incompetant
one most folks dont know is if you are a Drug user and by that they mean any time in the previous 12 months you can not possess a firearm
Dishonorable discharge is regarded as a prohibiting act as well

 
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(Login BuyMyJunk)

Seems odd to me that a person that shouldn't want attention called to their

December 29 2009, 1:47 PM 

felonious behavior would make it an issue up front with a person who would have no way of knowing that they were a felon. If they told me up front I'd tell them no I couldn't sell to them.

Sounds strange, but stranger still is usually a felon knows where to get a gun. Why would he or she want possibly a $600.00 air gun plus an additional say $500.00 in accessories, and needing a compressor to boot.

 
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(Login jpsaxnc)
YFOT

I agree, there has to be a reason, someone would make such an anouncement? n/t

December 29 2009, 2:02 PM 

n/t

 
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Lymon
(Login lymonm)
YFOT

Two calls a week is suspicious & why would you volunteer the information?

December 29 2009, 2:04 PM 

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. Most felons I've met don't brag about it that much.

Of course, the hard part is still getting on the list!

 
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(Login LARRYPIRRONE)
YC

perhaps there is some element of entrapment

December 29 2009, 2:23 PM 

going on here. maybe law enforcement is checking on you. i don't know the legal issues in your state but that is a possibility.

every four years i renew my notary public license. almost without fail for a couple of weeks after that i get walkins for notary service and i don't advertise. most these walkins involve a document that has already been signed and would require me to turn them down. i think it may be the secretary of state spot checking. for the rest of my four years i don't get one walk in or call. (i have a notary because my company requires that i have one).

 
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Jim
(Login Riversidesports)
YF

I would be very careful if you are getting frequent calls...

December 29 2009, 2:20 PM 

where the "interested" party is serving you with an initial announcement of having a felony conviction. Number of years back Representative Shelia Jackson Lee attended a larger show in Texas attempting to purchase and went to great lengths to purchase registered NFA, {machinguns & things we cant discuss on this forum} from the Class III dealers that were set up there. This has also been a tactic used by New York City Mayor Blomberg as well as the Violence Policy Center when they are doing "research" for new legislative action.
Facts are few if any ex felons are going to call you up and announce their criminal history, particularly right out the gate...this stinks like either liberal media, political aides/lobbyists or both.
I think the way around this is for you to incorporate a voluntary disclaimer stating that there are no Federal, State or Local laws that prevent the purchaser from possessing your products into your end user agreement/contract. If the subject comes up in a phone conversation use your same line and place the onus on the ex felon to prove that it is legal for him to possess to products in his State/Local jurisdiction.
A number of companies make folks sign off on similar disclaimers to purchase late 19th century military surplus rifles, Century & TAPCO come to mind.
Federally speaking like pre 1899 items & reproductions thereof in non production chamberings, air guns are not regulated what so ever...that said State law and local ordinances can vary widely and there is no way anyone can know them all my friend.
If this is going on at the frequency you stated I dont think it paranoid to state you are being targeted. As to why? There are far more YouTube Vidz and Web articles on the quality & power of your products than that of all your competitors combined...that makes you the best target for either a media expose or for some idiot in Congress to use in a bid to broaden the definitions of the GCA.
As far as this pabble elsewhere in this thread about Felons might be inclined to use an airgun if they couldn't come by a firearm...GIVE ME A BREAK! Dennis' guns are darn hard to come by and are very expensive in the secondary used market. Few felons are going to spend over a GRAND on a .50 Bandit, fewer yet will be willing to ride the herd when the list opens up.
Instead were a Felon so inclined he would go to one of the major vendors and buy a Sam Yang .45 for less than half the price of a used DAQ and that's why these calls stink to high heaven.
Moreover an airgun offers NO advantage over a black powder rifle or handgun...why would a felon want a DAQ or any other big bore when for a couple hundred he can purchase an entry level in-line muzzle loader that offers far greater range and energy?
like I said, there is an awful odor in the air...

 
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(Login BuyMyJunk)

You mentioned major vendors or big box stores. Wonder how many calls they get.

December 29 2009, 2:30 PM 

I bet none. It this is entrapment it's be easier to knock the small one man operation off first. I imagine a felon would think there'd be less resistance to sell from a one man operation too.

 
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(Login Riversidesports)
YF

heres my take on what you stated...

December 29 2009, 3:01 PM 

Many years back Tommy Chong of Cheech and Chong bought interest in a Glass Water Pipe company eventually renaming it Chong Glass Works. In the closing year of HW Bush's term in office, Daddy Bush quietly signed an Executive Order that criminalized the interstate sale of Drug paraphenalia. Nothing was done with the EO under Clinton but as soon as GW & that meatball Ashcroft took office Tommy Chong was indicted for violation of a previously never enforced Executive Order.
Why was Tommy Chong targeted?
He was the most well known Pot Head in America.
Same situation with Bob Stuart of Maddi Griffin, the .50BMG 80% kit rifle. He sold his kits with full page spreads in SGN for YEARS. GW gets in office, Bob ends up in prison after they raid him over the kits and recover firearms.
I fear these contacts Dennis has been getting are not Felons
rather he has been chosen/targeted because of the promenence of his product online
the cretins involved in this crap wont bother the big box outfits...they want a face and a face that is known but still small enough to batter
its how the game is played

 
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RedFeather
(Login RedFeather)
YFOT

Ask a criminal justice lawyer in your area

December 29 2009, 2:44 PM 

About the only way to settle this. Look at my county - air gun discharge in most all areas is considered a firearms felony. That could be interpreted as air guns being firearms and, therefore, a person convicted of a felony could not possess (or handle) one. Same with black powder guns which, in reality, ARE guns, same as smokeless. Seems, in such cases, the only difference between air/BP guns and smokeless are in the purchasing restrictions.

 
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(Login Y_N)
YFOT

If I'd ever been convicted of a Felony...

December 29 2009, 3:00 PM 

... I'd make sure I wasn't breaking any law's by purchasing it and wouldnt mention it to Dennis when I made the call.

--------------
Oggy Oggy Oggy

 
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(Login BullBalls)
YF

I had a conversation like this two weeks ago

December 29 2009, 3:08 PM 

with a friend of mine. As a manufacturer it might behoove you to contact an attorney to square you away. An ounce of prevention...


 
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(Login 2AMEND)
YFOT

I think your response is the proper one.......

December 29 2009, 3:11 PM 

"I tell them that I need a letter from their parole officer, local law enforcement or their county judge stating that there would be no trouble with them possessing an airgun"

If this is a setup type call then they will most likely be happy with (or upset because it wasnt what they were hoping for for) your written requirement before sale.
I think all you really need to be concerned about is YOUR State laws about airguns, being a manufacturer I might look into selling into States where they are considered firearms but even still it would probably be hard to convict YOU of any wrong doing (since the buyer would be the criminal and breaking HIS State laws).

I do not believe the BATFE considers an airgun a firearm in ANY State no matter what the local State laws read.

 
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jesse
(Login boscoebrea)
YFOT

every state is different,maybe even counties can be

December 29 2009, 3:22 PM 

when you buy a powder burner you have to fill out paper work,it is then sent to the Justice Department to see if you can legally purchase it.

       Now for a air gun no paper work is involved where I live,No waiting period.

      My advice is to say ,Sorry,I can not sell gun to you,That is my policy because of all the different laws each state has,I can not afford to take a chance...the ATF is looking for any chance to shut legitimate business down ,Anyone can get anything they want and if it is legal to own ,then let a non felon purchase it...


 
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Bruce Dodson
(Login BDodson)
YF

I think Dennis already does this

December 29 2009, 3:54 PM 

It has been a while since I bought a gun from Dennis but I think on the last one I had to fill out and send in a letter saying I was not breaking any State, Local or Federal laws in owning one of these guns? The whole thing does sound fishy and it is up to the customer to meet the laws of the land. Still you must be careful and if you are not sure do not sell him one.
There is no way Quackenbush can know if the guy is a felon or is breaking and laws.

Bruce Dodson
AireTex Compressors
(214)402-5574 Mobile
(817)633-5505 Office
www.airetex.com

 
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(Login airguneditor1)
YC

Dennis, the scenario you describe puts my antennas up

December 29 2009, 4:22 PM 

. . . sounds like foreplay for some sort of entrapment . . . but I could be wrong.

Jock Elliott
Airgun writer,
correspondent, Precision Shooting Magazine
author, "Elliott on Airguns"
http://sites.google.com/site/elliottonairguns/
airgun blog:https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/blog/blog.html


 
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(Login justjohnny)
YC

need to ask ....

December 29 2009, 6:03 PM 

what exactly IS an ex felon? either you are or you aren't,if you aren't why should /would you say you were .its just opening a can of worms that doesn't need to be opened.let the past be the past if that is the case .JMHO .

TOO many freaks and NOT enough circuses

 
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(Premier Login Grantthekiwi)

Eric.

December 29 2009, 6:47 PM 

Even Felons have to Retire one day, Lol. Hell its hard mixing it with 18 year old Kick Boxers, Dodging Bullets and scaling 6ft Fences in ya 50's-60's hehe. Cups of Hot Chocolate, Slippers and Collecting and Building Airguns is far more Fun and a lot more Safe. happy.gif

Grant, N.Z.

 
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(Login justjohnny)
YC

ain't that

December 29 2009, 7:05 PM 

the truth happy.gif

TOO many freaks and NOT enough circuses

 
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roland cannon
(Login rcannon409)
YC

Felonies....

December 29 2009, 7:58 PM 

Anyone who walks around with a felony for more than 7-10 years is an idiot. There is a thing in law called expungement (sp) that erases all but the very worst felonies. Read that statement as "baby rapers"......They live with their felony for life.

Second, "weapon" is ALL defined by context...a knife is a weapon. The same knife in a kitchen is for cutting things..obviously.

You find most police officers and PO's are not smart enough to do their job. They lack the intelligence to fully understand just what a consequence a person will pay once they overcharge them during the commission of a crime.....note, speeding in a car is a a crime.

As a seller, you are far better keeping your mouth shut and leaving it up to the buyer to decide if he /she should own one.

Most of the time these enhancements are used to nail an ex-felon to the wall after he has committed another crime while in possession of a firearm. Rarely will a felon get pulled over for speeding and be searched for a weapon/

So, an expungement costs less than 200.00 if you do the footwork and is somethign ANYONE can qualify for.

 
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(Login Riversidesports)
YF

sorta half right...

December 29 2009, 8:28 PM 

no expungement for Federal Felonies & the vast bulk of them ARE non violent
State pardons/expungements availability & cost vary widely within the 50 states...particularly when it concerns restorations of RKBA
in most areas its not difficult to obtain an expungement however in many of these same areas they will restore all rights but the right to bear arms

 
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roland cannon
(Login rcannon409)
YC

actually ,.I did it! nt

December 29 2009, 10:59 PM 


 
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(Login rcannon409)
YC

Yes, your soft-of right

December 29 2009, 11:06 PM 

For federal (or state), apply for a "full and unconditional Pardon"...its easy and cheap to get as well. Yes, a lot of the criteria has to do with staying out of trouble, but its not tough..took me less than 60 days from start to finish. I did my own paperwork and the court respected that and led me by the hand through the process.

Sadly, the legal system cares nothing about you once your fines are paid.

 
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(Login rcannon409)
YC

Yes, your soft-of right

December 29 2009, 11:06 PM 

For federal (or state), apply for a "full and unconditional Pardon"...its easy and cheap to get as well. Yes, a lot of the criteria has to do with staying out of trouble, but its not tough..took me less than 60 days from start to finish. I did my own paperwork and the court respected that and led me by the hand through the process.

Sadly, the legal system cares nothing about you once your fines are paid.

 
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piper
(Login Bps1)
YF

sounds like a trap to me..

December 29 2009, 7:48 PM 

i wouldn't sell to a convicted ex-felon. who would come out an admit something like that up front? o well it's too bad for them in that case. better to be safe than sorry, an avoid getting in trouble with the law yourself.


 
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(Login holdover)
YF

Re: sounds like a trap to me..

December 29 2009, 8:35 PM 



MMMMMMMMMMMM, My Spidey sense is starting to tingle.

Im not likeing what Im seeing.

I would tell him that you have to check with the law before the sale.


There's no reason he would have informed you when he could ahve just sent the dough and bought the gun.

Something doesnt sound right about this.

check the state laws, to be sure .yours and his ,some states consider airguns as firearms , I think new Jersey.

or better yet just dont sell him one and avoid it all together.

 
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(Login critter99)
YF

To me its sounds more like Antigun Nuts trying to create a

December 29 2009, 8:37 PM 

problem that does not exist to get regulation of large FPE airguns....for example ...Mr Congressman we were able to buy these dangerous air rifles easily EVEN though we told the seller we were DANGEROUS CONVICTED FELONS....please introduce out anti air rifle bill to make all our CHILDREN safe


 
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Quackenbush
(Login DAQ)
YC

Edited

December 29 2009, 8:45 PM 

Gonna say Rule 3 on that post.

 
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(Login Riversidesports)
YF

Edited

December 29 2009, 9:06 PM 

RULE 3: Criminal airgun activity reported in the media is not welcome here.
Such as newspaper articles, TV reports, internet articles on police
plots etc. discuss them on OT here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/417256

 
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