.177 for long distance shooting?March 16 2010 at 7:14 AM
|elmer fudd (Login mr.fudd)|
I noticed looking through the Chairgun pellet data base that .177 JSB heavies have a 0.031 BC. For a .177, that's high...real high. In fact it's higher than most .22 and .25 pellets. Now, that got me thinking, most PCP's should be able to easily shoot them in the upper 900's, and with that small a projectile I should be able to get lots of very consistent shots.
I'm thinking that a .177 Marauder sounds like just the ticket for some serious long range precision plinking, (out to 100+ yards). I'm thinking I might run it off a pony bottle for extra convenience and consistency. I might regulate it too, but I already have the pony bottle, so that's an easy option. The affordability of the pellets and the mags makes this look very attractive.
right up my alley
|March 16 2010, 7:26 AM |
not too many signing up for this what with the popularity of the .22. this thing would be an inexpensive, fun quest for you. something like the .177 marauder is the ...basic... ...gun... and i'm kind of surprised that the .177 PCP doesn't get more traction. i only have the marauder in .177 but those with both calibers find the .177 gives more shots.
everyone relates to guns and ammo in their own way and that's the way it should be. i can't exactly verbalize the feeling i get, but best as i can, the confluence of extreme accuracy, minute groups, and minute ammo are the most fun that can be had. i can easily see how someone else can find the scenario undernourished and dinky.
small caliber joy
High sectional density
|March 16 2010, 7:35 AM |
with the .177 heavy pellets,the Crosman ultra mag or heavy Premier would also be excellent at long range energy retention.You will find that these pellets are superb penetrators as well and lend themselves to hunting applications that many feel only larger calibers should be assigned to.I cannot comment on their resistance to crosswind influence,but you are certainly on the right track.
"Free until dead."
They will carry far, however...
|March 16 2010, 7:47 AM |
I have noticed a severe tendency to shift in the crosswinds. I was shooting 10.5gn CPH's .177 (~ same BC as JSB) @ 910 fps and my dad was shooting 14.3 CP's .22 @ 775 fps and we shot 30 shots each at 50 yds.
They were at the same time (we were both on a bench)with light winds (3mph?.) My shots shifted an a average of .5-.75" and his were an average of .25 -.375".
I'm convinced the .22 call pellets are better for long distance shooting. That's what most the varmint hunters use as well.
(+) Paul (+)
Technically, the BC combined with velocity should determine the wind drift,
|March 16 2010, 8:44 AM |
but we all know that theory and reality are often different.
I'm a little skeptical of some of the BC values given in Chairgun, but my understanding is that BC can vary quite a bit from gun to gun and as the velocity changes, so it could be that they're correct at least some of the time.
According to Chairgun, the JSB heavies have a BC of 0.031, while CP heavies are 0.026. By way of comparison, .22 JSB 15.9's also have a BC of 0.031 while .22 Kodiaks are 0.036.
That was what got me thinking seriously about this. I frequently shoot my .22 S410 out to 100 yards and I use 15.9 grain JSB's. At that distance I find that consistency is a major factor and the difference in trajectory from the power curve becomes very apparent. It seems that a .177 should be able to get more consistent shots per charge and should have an easier time pushing the pellets up into the mid 900's. The big question I suppose is whether the theory bears out in practice. If it does, a .177 M-rod shooting JSB heavies in the 950-1000 range should have a ballistic advantage and a wind bucking advantage over a .22 S410 shooting JSB 15.9's at 930 fps.
stated goal of long distance precision plinking
|March 16 2010, 10:29 AM |
allows the odd shot to be off. meanwhile you are developing massive game at wind doping. it isn't all negatives. you will learn your gun intimately, grow as a shooter, pay small money, and have an invaluable shooting experience you wouldn't otherwise have had.
small caliber joy
I have another goal in mind as well.
|March 16 2010, 4:50 PM |
I've been thinking for some time of setting up a simulated 1000 yard range that would use an airgun for long range training on a .308.
Basically, I'd map out the trajectory of the pellet, then size my targets to be the same in relation to the mildots on my scope and my trajectory as a .308 rifle would be at distances between 400 and 1000 yards. So while the 1000 yard target might only be out there at 110 yards, I would have to use the same holdover and it would occupy the same number of mildots as the 1000 yard full size target would.
I've thought for some time that it would be nice to be able to practice high power, long range shooting for $0.02 a shot and do it without having to drive out to Timbuktu. I don't like wind drift, but for my purposes more of it might not be a bad thing.
that would be a fine game
|March 16 2010, 6:58 PM |
great practice and loads of fun. everybody has different wind conditions. the way you describe your range it may not be much of a factor. to me this is a perfect application for .177. i only wish i had 100 yards to play with.
small caliber joy
A Pigeon at 112 yards thought
|March 16 2010, 8:45 AM |
that my .177 HW100 is no good at that range. I gave it a lesson on manners
10.6 Kodiak at 22 FPE @ muzzle is a serious flat shooting pill. It gets there at no time with virtually no wind drift on a good day...
VYD I think solved it 177 it is!!
|March 16 2010, 9:08 AM |
Joe Brancato <><
I've got a .177 Rapid That Dutch and
|March 16 2010, 9:37 AM |
I've got a .177 Rapid That Dutch and ...nuts, can't remember his name, used to be on this forum all the time shot. One of them nailed a crow with it at over 100 yards before I owned it. That's the one with the DaveG and FX tube.
Theory says BC, not mass determines drift. It doesn't seem right, but that's theory.
One day I will have to compare it to a .22 (yeah, like I have time for that). AFTER the Willys gets done, along with the garage, the........
That is kind of a famous gun....
|March 16 2010, 1:22 PM |
aquadot was the original owner and figured out that he could fit an fx tube to the bottle connection. Caused other folks to take heed...now theoben has the Rapid E type...
Aquadot is also the guy that thought up the tanks that Airghog sells to this day. He got ahold of the luxfer company and had fittings made up. He is basically the guy that started up airgunners using 4500 psi airtanks. So Joe you do hold alittle history there. I got a rapid stock in left hand that will fit that gun. Don't think it will sell for 1200 again though...hehehehe
Self proclaimed shootinist sumbitch...there ever was almost!!
205 compressor fills and I have broke even
And aaain't it grrreaaat to be livinnn in the USA.
I never whacked a pigeon, starling, or sparrow that didn't deserve it!!!
1430 and countin....on pigeons..
starling count started 09--13
|This message has been edited by Dutch.22 on Mar 16, 2010 1:25 PM|
Joe Brancato <><
Hey Dutch, what was that nice guys name it had a 55 at the end
|March 16 2010, 1:38 PM |
Hey Dutch, what was that nice guys name it had a 55 at the end, like Joe55 or something. He was a real nice guy. Lived in PA.
Would sign off with a cordial statment.
Probably 40-50-ish in age.
p.s. here is That Rapid, with an Allen Z and before I installed a larger air tube. It is set up for FT With a single shot tray. I can convert it back if I wish.
Joe Brancato <><
I remember his name, it was Ed1955
|March 16 2010, 1:44 PM |
|Kelly Alan Bodish|
People always unde-rate the .177
|March 16 2010, 9:04 AM |
and I have used it mostly up until just 9 years ago . Prior to that I only used .177's and they killed just as well as a .22 all those many years , for many people on the same game . Shot placement as you know is most important anywayz , not just FPE or FPS .
Rabbits die at 5 to 7 FPE , Sqirrels at 7 to 9 FPE , dead is dead , nuff said .
For flat shooting , the .177 is hard to beat . Try some RWS Super Magnum Diabolos some time . If you think Meaisterkuglens shoot good adn your gun likesa littel ehavier pellet, they are hard to beat for an accurate Diabolo .
Cheers , RWS-Kelly
if no wind then fine
|March 16 2010, 9:48 AM |
once you live in a permanent windy environment you see some of its short comings , having a heavy 0177 (11grain or so) going at 900+ is great . I am certainly no expert but it seems that you need 20 grains or more at velocities of above 850 to really reach out when wind is present.I am still a huge fan of the 177 , always have been . One of my preferred solutions for pest control out to 40 yards or so is the HN wadcutters at 8-900 pfs.
I shoot 75+ yards almost every day
|March 16 2010, 12:36 PM |
I have done tons of shooting out back here while working on guns, and my back stop is a measured 75 yards out. The .177 will do just fine at that distance, and beyond, provided the shooter does his part. One drweaback... It's harder to actually see where you are hitting at that distance with a little itty bitty pellet! hehehehe
304-273-0937 after 6pm EST
See more picts @http://davegcustomstocks.com
If its all you have
|March 16 2010, 12:47 PM |
I own a gun I can use several barrels easily in an afternoon. I have three barrels I sometimes use for benchrest matches, one in each caliber. We fire at (only) fifty yards. With each caliber firing decently flat shooting pellets at 900fps, the trend for SURE is the larger and heavier the pellet, the less it blows around in the wind.
On a really mild day, ANY of the barrels will easily shoot 1 moa, but when the breeze picks up, the .22 cal 18.1gr JSB at even only 850fps will drift less than a .177 Premier 10.5 even at 950fps.
I have compared my .177 to the 5mm and .22 at 100yds. With REALLY calm condition, my .177 is slightly better, giving well under an inch, and the .22 and 5mm giving jUSt under an inch. But with typical breeze, the .22 stretches out to 1.5" and the .177 and 5mm to 2" and the .177 to 3.5"
That's exactly the kind of information I was looking for.
|March 16 2010, 4:39 PM |
I kind of suspected something along those lines, but since all my airguns are completely different, I can't do any sort of side by side comparison that would have any meaning.
I think I'll still go for it anyway though as my shooting range is well sheltered from the wind.
|March 16 2010, 9:59 PM |
February AGW. 12 ft.lbs. All from same guns. Four calibers. 35 yards.
wind speed 5mph 10mph 15mph
.177 1.2" 2.5" 3.7"
.20 1.2 2.5 3.7
.22 1.3 2.6 3.9
.25 1.6 3.4 5.1
This is the drift of each pellet. The amout of drift seems to be
a function of the time in the air.
This is at 35 yards.
A REAL good issue.