This one took way too much time - because I repeatedly fell to my worst enemy - mundane math errors . I had to go back and re-edit on a few occasions. So, if you find any more math errors, please be gentle, my brain just isn't in the shape it used to be.
This is part 3 of the 3-part "Pigeon Hunting in High Wind" series. If you missed the other two, you can find them in the Yellow Forum "Archives" page. Ted.
Herb, Ths project really put my verbal skills to the test. I prefer to just "chat" with the camera about what I'm doing. But, that just isn't possible when explaining this subject. It really wore me out.
I've noticed in your videos how steady you hold even after the shot, almost looks like you're shooting off a bench. Do you use shooting sticks of some kind or another kind of rest? Very informative video as always.
In this pigeon vid series I had my bipod on, and would drop to the ground to take my shots. I would use either my fist or my arm to steady the back of the gun. For the "woods" videos, I rest against trees. The bubble level on the gun helps me keep the cross hairs flat.
Ted, your communication skills are superb.
You have taken many shooters and placed them at the table of thought.
Many have and will come away with a vast understanding of using and applying the use of MilDots. With your videos, you have done what many before you have failed to do with book and paper for the average shooter. Video is an awesome resource. Your work is fantastic and very well done. Your informative videos have taken many from cross hairs and iron sights to a new world using MilDots.
Thanks Bo. I recognize that this can be information overload for some.
March 7 2011, 11:49 AM
And very young shooters have not yet learned the math skills. But, they will, in time. And even if Hawke stops updating/supporting the Chairgun software, most of these videos will be as true in 20 years as they are now. So, the videos can "wait".
evnthough i only have springers and pumpers now i still enjoyed all the movies , just great !
I was out in the wind yesterday at -3 C and some side wind (on and off) hitting small tin cans at 40-75 yards . With no gloves on it lasted for an hour before my fingers were numb.
I am looking forward to again getting a pcp........
...is that they jolt the gun so much that it takes me too long to steady the gun before the pellet impacts the target. PCP's barely make any kick, and it still looks like I'm shooting a shotgun when view through the scope.
But then, I was never a very good springer shooter either...
But, I'm not sure it would do you any good. This setup took me months to piece together. I read more camera reviews than I could say. Many could do the job. I literally had a word document comparing dimension, weight, and function of multiple "candidates". The Casio is not the best at any of those, but it was the best overall. It's mostly plastic, so it isn't as durable, but it is very light.
Shooting yesterday in gusty conditions we get this time of year in New England found wind angle the most difficult to judge.Maybe stake out a couple vane type flags.Still at the beginning of the learning curve.Thaks for the video very helpful Regards mark in mass.
Wow! Great stuff on all counts, from the shooting to the video presentation...
March 7 2011, 12:59 PM
Your efforts are much appreciated as always. Thanks for taking to time to share such good quality stuff with us. Its fantastic to see this stuff explained -especially after my reaction to the first video! Its great to have my mind shift from "DANG!, those kinds of shots are absolutely impossible for me. 80+yds, 25+mph winds -FORGETABOUTIT!" LOL!, to more of a: "OK, I can see that if you REALLY put your time in, learn the math, maybe with enough work and practice, those kinds of shots can become reasonable for the rest of us..." From my experience in other endeavors in my life, I can appreciate the kind of time, work, and knowledge you've had to accumulate to get where you are now. Hat's off to you, for the shooting skills, and for the skills to be able share that knowledge with the rest of us in such an articulate manner. YOU DA MAN! I'm curious: I've read that it takes about 10,000 hours to truly master whatever your passion/endeavor might be. Whether you're an athlete, or a computer programmer, or a classical pianist, the 10,000 hour theory seems to apply -it works out to about 40 hours a week of practice for about 10 years (according to one book I read anyway). I'd love to know how many hours of experience you've got invested in becoming the shooter you are today?
One more question for you: I've heard talk/rumor of some barrels showing less wind deflection than others. Have you seen anything like that? -And has it been enough to throw your calcuations off as you're playing with different guns? The chairgun calculations seem to match up perfectly with your JSB's and the LW (is that correct?) barrel in your edgun. I wonder if physics is physics and the wind deflection numbers remain plenty constant, or if things like twist rate or maybe a 'smooth-twist' barrel might react differently to any given wind situation?
I've read the same thing re: the 10,000 hours. And I can tell you with complete certainty that I have logged 10,000+ hours behind a rifle. But, the bulk of that time was in my youth, when I didn't even begin to understand complicated long-distance/wind shots. I remember setting my .22LR cross hairs on a crow 200+ yards out in a field, and was complete bewildered when the puff of dirt was 40 yards from the crow. The bird flew away reluctantly, as if to say, "this kid has no chance, but what if he gets lucky."
So, when it comes to holding a gun steady, I'm pretty good. But, the truth is that I'm almost a "newbie" when it comes to serious shooting. But, I have always had a mind for math and analysis, so it's been a fun and fast ride, so far.
Believe me when I say, however, that I am NO master. I have a long way to go, and I know this better than anyone.
And you are correct that the barrel on my Edgun is an LW. But, I have no idea how barrel difference affect wind deflection on pellets. I, too, have recently read how the ST barrels seem to buck the wind better and produce better ballistic coefficients. But, I simply do not have any evidence/experience of my own to confirm or deny those findings. The subject is certainly an interesting one...
This 10,000 hours idea is fascinating stuff, IMO. I make it a point to ask all the top athletes in my field if they've got that kind of time in, and so far the answer has always been yes. It kind of shoots down the excuse: "Well, he's got that 'god given talent'..." -I think its encouraging to think that you simply have to put in the work if you want to get there. All the exceptional people I know say the same thing -there's no easy rise to the top. But I think its a rare personality type who can maintain that kind of focus and dedication w/out losing interest. I had a suspicion that maybe guys like you and some of the other top shooters around here have probably logged close to 10,000 hours behind a trigger (guys like Yrrah, Jamie, Paul Cray and other national FT winners come to mind...I'm sure there are others... -If you guys are reading this, I'd love to hear your answer to the same question!). Thanks for confirming my suspicion! Plus it sounds like your time wind-surfing has really paid off as well.
I gotta get back to my rifle! LOL! I'm currently working on my 10,000 hours with my airguns and my guitar. Maybe another 20 or 30 years will do the trick! LOL! In the meantime, please keep those great videos coming!
Scott in CO
This message has been edited by scottdecapio on Mar 7, 2011 5:59 PM
I really enjoyed your Videos from the beginning to end!!! Also thank goodness there are tecky people out there like you willing to do stuff like this for the public.Great shooting BTW!
A little background.I'm a long range centerfire tactical match shooter as well the current AZ state FT champion.Since I shoot both disciplines I've come to learn some things about ballistic programs,holdovers-holdoffs and dialing with mil based reticles.
To my delight I discovered there's such a thing as "first focal plane" variable magnification scopes(FFP).The type of scopes most people are used to are "second focal plane" variable scopes(SFP),like the one you used in the video.
With FFP scopes the reticle is "always" relative to the size of the target regardless of which magnification-(mag}the scope is on.So consequently the reticle and target appears to shrink at lower mag and grow larger at higher mag unlike a SFP scope which is the opposite.The advantage to this is one can mil-(estimate range)at any mag setting without having to worry about being at exactly 10x or 20X like you were having to do.It's the same advantage with holdovers and holdoffs as well,regardless of which mag you are on the mil value never changes like with SFP.So in other words a mil is always a mil in a FFP scope no matter what!FFP scopes make life very simple!!!! Another nice thing is that there are FFP scopes available that have mil based turret knobs so the turrets match the reticle.No converting mils to moa's unless desired.It's very convenient this way.Because 1.5 mil on the reticle is the same as 1.5 mil on the turret,thus no conversion to moa necessary.With the advent of ballistic calculators,portable weather stations like the Kestral and laser range finders we shooters have it made!
Here's a link to some FFP reticle pics so you can see what I'm trying to convey.
Thanks Steve, I actually thought about addressing FFP reticles
March 7 2011, 10:18 PM
But, ultimately decided to leave it out for a few reasons. One, I don't own one, and have never had the pleasure of using one, so I really didn't feel qualified to talk about them. Two, I had to chop a few things from the video (severe incline shooting got axed, too) because I was trying to avoid giving any rookies "information overload". And three, I figured that everyone should know how to first drive a "stick" before buying an "automatic".
And don't mention how great those portable weather doowackies are!!! I'm still priding myself on how long I've gotten by without one. My laser rangefinder already makes me feel enough like a "cheater" - hehehe.
You're probably right about the info overload.There was a lot to take in and digest as is in your video but you did such a good job laying it out that I think it turned out just right.
You better not try a FFP scope or you'll end up hooked like me and become scope broke. I've got 6 of them now.That's how much I like them.Last year I bought a Bushnell 3-12x44FFP Tactical.First the scope was on a centerfire shooting long range out to 1200Y until I realized it focused down to 10Y.Then it went on my USFT to try some HFT with it to great success.I even milled with it but it was to hard to distinguish between 50 and 55 yards.Then I switched it over to my Morini pistol to try PFT for a few months.
Honestly I hardly come over to this forum and have a few questions for you if you have the time to answer them.
Are there any airgun ballistic aps for Droid ? and have you seen many posts about FFP scopes here ?
Steve, I remember seeing that there is one ballistics program available for smart phones. I don't own one of those contraptions, so I didn't pay much mind to it. If you post a thread, I'm sure you'll get a quick answer...maybe it was the STP (Simple Trajectory Program)???
There is some mention of FFP scopes from time to time. I usually comes up in the "I don't understand mil dot range estimation" threads. I think a lot of the FT guys (like yourself) use those crazy-expensive things. I'll get one someday, I'm sure. But, not until I have a consistent sub MOA @ 100 yard air rifle. Oh, I know, a lot of guys claim to have a rifle that good. And a lot of married men claim they never look at other women, too.
LOL,I've gone round and round over at the Snipers Hide about folks claiming consistent sub MOA with their rimfires at 100Y.Most happened to get one picture of a 5 shot group or they use 3 shot groups as their standard and get lucky.All I can say is I'd want to be a witness to such an event.I have read a article about a super expensive 22 target rifle tested in a indoor range at 100Y that could do it with certain $25 a box ammo.
As far as air rifles I'd be interested to see a article about it.
You and I know the presence of and miscall of wind will kill a group faster than anything.So that makes it pretty hard to do in the real world.
It's been a long wait for those but hopefully all the back orders will be filled up soon and we'll actually be able to buy one.A lot of tactical shooters have been waiting a year to get one.
I wish scope companies would make all their scopes with parallax focus down to 10Y.The PST's go down to 50Y.I copied and pasted this from your link. Parallax Setting 50 yards to infinity.Not that you can't dial the mag down to 4X to help offset it some.
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