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100% pure liquid silicone lubricant & Pellgunoil.

February 5 2012 at 8:37 PM
  (Login froghaven)
YF

My sincere thanks to everyone who helped me out with my equally sincere question about liquid silicone, which branched out into a question about Pellgunoil and other lubes as well. While I have diligently followed this forum for well over a year and have seen lots of isolated comments about silicone grease, I have rarely even seen a comment about liquid silicone, much less a discussion.

Following one responders somewhat derisive advice, I initiated a number of The Yellow Forum searches under a variety of terms. Unlike the responder, who seems to have found lots and lots of threads, I found only one of any significance other than my own. Perhaps it is because I spell words so much differently. The string I found is at:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1270315430/Silicone+oil+warnings

There is such a wide variety of opinions, I could spend a week trying to get more data and sort everything out. However, in case anyone other than me has any interest in this topic, here is what I have come up with:

1. I feel certain Pellgunoil is really just Monolec GFS SAE30 engine oil. There can be little doubt because the Crosman Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) says so. It can be found at:

http://www.crosman.com/pdf/msds/MSDS-PELLGUNOIL.pdf

Considering the vast difference in price, I feel this information alone was well worth the effort.

2. Some people obtain similar results using synthetic automatic transmission fluid (ATF), and swear by it.

3. Liquid silicone is very powerful stuff, very effect at what it does. The nagging questions are: (i) what does it do; and (i) when should it be used in connection with an air gun, if ever?

4. Some prominent air gunsmiths feel very strongly liquid silicone should never be used for any purpose in connection with an air gun. It will totally ruin the gun in very short order because, no matter where you apply it, it will soon migrate into every nook and cranny of the entire gun. Being a sort of super lubricant, it sticks like glue, is impossible to remove, displaces and repels other lubes, but is a terrible metal-to-metal lube itself. So, no matter where you apply it, it will soon displace any other lube in metal-to-metal contact, resulting in metal galling. Excessive friction results in roughening the rubbing metal surfaces.

5. Some air gun manufacturer manuals say using liquid silicone as a lube will void the warranty.

6. Some users have used liquid silicone for years in a variety of air gun applications with no adverse effects at all.

7. Liquid silicone is an inert, nonreactive, noncombustible super-lubricant for stuff other than metal, making it superb for some applications. Having said that, I know for a fact food grade silicone is universally used to lubricate food-processing machinery.

8. Nothing better for restoring and preserving things like O-rings, gaskets, diaphragms and the like, so long as the item is not itself made from silicone. The liquid silicone would penetrate a silicone O-ring, for instance, and make it too soft. This kind of penetration is great for other materials and, unlike silicone grease, the liquid easily works its way into every nook and cranny.

9. Works great on leather seals, although some people mix it with neatsfoot oil and other people think neatsfoot oil will break down leather over time. Anybody out there own silicone tanned leather boots or use silicone for waterproofing?

10. Works great to protect metals from contaminants. Spreads out, sticks like glue, displaces and repels moisture, body oil from fingers and such. No one questions its use in gun socks, for instance. Apparently, some manufacturers treat the inside of air tubes with it to prevent rust. Someone said it is difficult to re-blue a barrel once it touches liquid silicone, but I read that as meaning it works really well at protecting metal

12. Despite comments to the contrary, liquid silicone can be readily removed by mineral spirits, aka paint thinner.

13. I guess liquid silicone makes a good dielectric for use on electrical contacts, but I am not even sure whether that means it is a conductor or insulator.

Very little of this information has been verified from sources of indisputable accuracy, and I really dont know how to make much practical use of it. All I know for sure is: (i) I will be buying some Monolec GFS SAE30 engine oil as soon as I can find it; and (ii) I will be selling some of the full gallon of liquid silicone I just purchased. I could not find it in any smaller quantity, and I wanted some to experiment with.

 
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AuthorReply

(Login LexingtonGreg)
YF

I'm just thinking out loud...

February 5 2012, 8:54 PM 

I think that Monolec 30 weight oil is targeted to purely commercial uses like massive marine engines. I looked into it, and it seems like there were no small quantities available, the question ended up being more like...how many 55 gallon drums of the stuff would you like to order? And my answer to that question was...I'll just buy the small tube from Crosman once a year. I really don't like getting price gouged, and I've searched out MSDS sheets many times to "get to the bottom of it" before, but there are some fights that just aren't worth fighting. And I think the Monolec/Pellgun oil issue is one of them.

Also, I think RWS sells pure silicone in a small bottle, I think its their "air chamber lube" which is different from their "Spring cylinder lube". Somebody here will be able to clear it up I'm sure.


[linked image]

 
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FPoole
(Login FPoole)
YFOT

silicone o-ring lube

February 5 2012, 9:01 PM 

I got some at a pool supply store for lubing o-rings on chlorine dispensers. A small bottle comes with the dispenser as well.

 
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(Login sonnyboy73)
YF

I wish that I could understand your frustrations....

February 5 2012, 9:27 PM 

I am the most anal person I know, and my air gun hobby has cost me a marrage, but I think you need to sit down by yourself and say "am I spending to much time on this" pelgun-oil is pelgun-oil.....silicon chamber oil is silicon chamber oil............as airguners we know the difference between perfection and really close to it.move on and appreciatte the almost, because you will never find perfect

 
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(Login Yellowdman)
YF

Crosman

February 5 2012, 9:40 PM 

makes silicone chamber oil for their spring guns. Crosman reccomends it for the chamber on the spring guns and to put some on a rag and to rub down the rifle with it. I know that paintballers use silicone oil, the shop by my house has 4 different brands of silicone oil. I was told they put some different additives in them to make them better for metal on metal contact but still safe to use with HPA. I use both oil and grease on both my HPA rifles. I use the oil on the trigger assemblies and I did use it on some o-rings but I have switched back to using grease on the o-rings because it stays in place where's the oil tends to seep out. I do put some oil on a rag and wipe down my polished barrel with it to every once in a while. I'm a bicycle mechanic and we use a lot of silicone oil at the shop on the shifters, cables, derrailleurs and sometimes on the chains in the winter or in wet or rainy conditions. I know some of the grease we use to pack bearings is silicone but Its has additives in it too, what the additives are I don't know cause they like to keeps those things a secret but some of the spray lube we use has teflon in it. I don't use any of the silicone products we sell at the bike shop on my rifles though, I only use the stuff that the paintball shop sells on them.



Dave

 
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Bill S.
(Login tripleguy)
YFOT

Or you could just use pneumatic tool oil

February 5 2012, 10:21 PM 

Air tool oil is just light weight, non detergent oil. If it works in air tools, should work in airgun applications. I have no problems with air tool oil or ATF.

"but I'll be needin' that gun, fer squirrels and such."

 
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Pooh
(Login poohno1)
YF

You guys kill me,

February 5 2012, 10:37 PM 

You spend hundreds of dollars on your guns but worry about the cost of a small tube of pellgunoil. That tube lasts for a long time....Man next it will be the pellets or something else. Guess its time to sell all our guns.....look at all the money our wives would have to spend then...





Be carefull kid or you'll shoot your eye out....

I can resist anything, but temptation

Pooh

 
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(Login Yellowdman)
YF

I can't use pellgun oil

February 5 2012, 11:05 PM 

on my rifles. That's a petrolium based oil and it's a no no on HPA and PCP guns and rifles. Plus the silicone oil and grease I use is more expensive than Pellgun oil. happy.gif Don't tell my gil friend! LOL!


Dave

 
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RedFeather
(Login RedFeather)
YFOT

Own a lawn mower?

February 5 2012, 10:52 PM 

Those skinny oil change bottles are usually 30W non-detergent. Next time you change your oil, get a small bottle and scavenge the little bit that's left over and usually drips out all over the garage floor anyway.

As suggested, I wouldn't worry too much about this. I guess you have found the post about the destructive, galling quality of silicone oil which will ruin an air gun in short order. (UK forum?) If that's so, then there should be a couple of metric tonnes of old leather sealed guns with chewed up compression tubes, etc. At any rate, I use it in my leather sealed guns without losing any sleep. Just don't want to flood the thing if relubing an old seal. A few drops - and that's drops, not squirts - should do it.

Your bit about making it hard to reblue reminded me of something that silicone oil (or furniture polishes) can make difficult and that is refinishing the stock. If it gets into the bare wood it can make it hard to take a stain or finish.

PS - Way back in my Navy daze, we used silicone oil to brighten up the CRSS (corrosion resistant stainless steel) bulkheads (walls) we had in the heads (bathrooms). Would really shine them up for inspection but you didn't want to lean against one or you would go straight down to the deck. (floor)

 
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Ed Canoles
(Login nced1)

"galling quality of silicone oil".....I'm wondering if this is true for...........

February 6 2012, 1:17 PM 

guns like the TX200 with their front and rear "plastic" wear rings, or a fully buttoned piston. I do know that silicone isn't a very good metal to metal lube, but it is an EXCELLENT "rubber" lube and has a high flash point. SEEMS to me that it would be a good piston SEAL lube for guns with pistons "floating" on "plastic" rings or buttons.

 
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(Login froghaven)
YF

Thanks again

February 6 2012, 1:04 AM 

For all the information, and the laughs.

For the record, I have been thinking about using rather costly pure liquid silicone because it will neither ruin seals nor blow up, and I wondered why I do not hear about other people using it. As an afterthought, I wondered whether Pellgunoil, which a lot of people do use, is silicone based. Then I find some gunsmiths and manufacturers warn the use of liquid silicone will trash any air gun in short order. I do not see how trying to find out if using liquid silicone will ruin my air guns makes me either anal retentive or cheap.

Glad to hear about the use of silicone in bike repair, since I have a gallon of the stuff and close to a dozen bikes. Went biking yesterday and today, in fact, the weather has been so nice here in Seattle.

 
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(Login Spedini)
YF

I`ve said this before

February 6 2012, 5:10 AM 

And I say it again BALLISTOL is all you need really.Take it from me,that`s the absolutely best lubricant produced ever.www.ballistol.de

 
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(Login bandmiller2)
YF

Re: 100% pure liquid silicone lubricant & Pellgunoil.

February 6 2012, 8:07 AM 

Monolec GFS #30 is blended by Lubrication Engineers co. its designed for diesel engine lubrication.Its probibly the best single weight oil you can buy.I've used alot of their products all top shelf.Their products are sold by reagonal salesmen.LE's president is a shooter,call to get the name of the local salesman,he'll probibly give you what you need.

 
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