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How crosmans new turbo aire pump works

February 13 2012 at 3:53 PM
Crowpopper  (Login crowpopper)
YF

Saw this on facebook today. http://www.crosman.com/croswords/?p=2420


    
This message has been edited by crowpopper on Feb 13, 2012 3:55 PM


 
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LexingtonGreg
(Login LexingtonGreg)
YF

Interesting

February 13 2012, 4:14 PM 

n/t


    
This message has been edited by LexingtonGreg on Feb 13, 2012 4:14 PM


 
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boo
(Login boohoo9)
YC

I would be interested

February 13 2012, 4:21 PM 

to see how this pump performs in actual use.
Also, how well it holds up.
Any improvement in hand pumps will be a good thing.

boo

 
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robny
(Login robnewyork)
YF

i like it

February 13 2012, 4:33 PM 

but at 300 msrp what will the actual retail be>?

[linked image]
"i never was much for book learnin"

 
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jesse
(Login boscoebrea)
YFOT

Archimedes said it best,Give me leverage or give me death.

February 13 2012, 5:03 PM 

well something like that,or was that one of US?

 
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Scot Heath
(Login ish00ttrap)
YF

Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world

February 13 2012, 6:27 PM 

I think you're mixing Archimedes and Patrick Henry.

-Scot

 
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jesse
(Login boscoebrea)
YFOT

like rum and coke..

February 13 2012, 9:37 PM 


 
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wasmarcus
(Login wasmarcus)
YF

LOL, your education is showing ;-)

February 14 2012, 12:46 AM 

Please be sure and thank those responsible!

Only the wise read signatures.

 
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Phil
(Login Duane30)
YF

Nice pair of shears! Oh, wait. I mean, pump! N.T.

February 13 2012, 6:03 PM 



"The majority of things in our lives are created by folks no smarter than the rest. Afterall, the world is comprised, and operated by C average people intellctually, academically, and morally. These people are often the great pioneers that set the precedent for what excellence should be."

 
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Scot Heath
(Login ish00ttrap)
YF

BS

February 13 2012, 6:24 PM 

Not the force/stroke curve, I get that and good for them, it's a very novel idea. The BS is:

"Finally, the Turbo Aire pump generates less heat than the competitive pumps. There are three primary reasons:

- Slower compression rate at the end of the stroke
- Thick, aluminum cylinder required to withstand the 3,000 psi pressure absorbs the heat
- No interconnected stages that preheat the air and transfer the heat to the next stage

The evidence of these improvements can be demonstrated by simply pumping up an airgun. The Turbo Aire can charge an air rifle from 0 to 3,000 psi without resting and the cylinder and base are only mildly warmer afterwards. Competitive pumps actually have a warning to stop pumping after 10 minutes to let the pump cool down before resuming pumping or risk damaging the seals. The base of these pumps becomes excessive hot during operation. By the way, all that heat generated is wasted energy you are expending that is not being used to pressurize your airgun! The Turbo Aire is more thermodynamically efficient."

Not even the great Crosman gods can change the laws of thermodynamics. The same amount of air compressed the same amount heats the same way. The fact that their pump has a "thick aluminum cylinder" and gets only "mildly warmer" in no way indicates that the temperature of the air is less, only that the heatsink used to cool the air is better. That does not equate to "more thermodynamically efficient" A previous statement in the article "The work done is actually the same between the two pumps (area under the curves)" so unless it takes less strokes for the same end result, there is no efficiency gain and I don't see that claim anywhere.

Knock it off Crosman, there's no need to embellish the trugh. The pump is a good idea, it's much like the leverage of the side-pump on the Indy which increases as the pump nears the end of the stroke resulting in a decrease in force even as the pressure is increasing. Make that point and let it be.

-Scot

 
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mark in mass
(Login mark6869)
YF

Wow,isn`t even out yet,There is a principle which is

February 13 2012, 6:53 PM 

a bar against all information which is proof against all arguments and which
cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance.That principle is contempt
prior to investigation.Am looking forward to its release.
Looking forward to trying one.Wonder what rebuilding it would be like?

mark in mass


    
This message has been edited by mark6869 on Feb 13, 2012 7:04 PM


 
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Andy H.
(Login AndyH44)

I'm sure you will get your chance if you buy one! n/t

February 14 2012, 7:54 AM 


 
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Jon B.
(Login eeler1)
YF

Re: BS

February 13 2012, 7:37 PM 

I dont know all the math and physics stuff. When I checked it out at the shot show, this pump appears to be much more robust than an old 3 stage version I had years ago. And all they said about it was that it would take about the same # of pumps, but the pumping would be easier. Maybe they shoulda left it at that, eh?


    
This message has been edited by eeler1 on Feb 13, 2012 8:04 PM


 
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Yrrah
(Login Yrrah)
YFOT

Their graphs give the lie to the "easier" bit ....... nt

February 13 2012, 7:41 PM 

nt

 
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mark in mass
(Login mark6869)
YF

Harry I never pumped a graph or based accuracy

February 13 2012, 8:14 PM 

or anything else strictly on one.The proof is in the pudding and none have
tried it yet.I wonder if this was a new Hill pump would posters be as biased

mark in mass

 
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Yrrah
(Login Yrrah)
YFOT

Neither have I Mark.

February 13 2012, 8:32 PM 

Therefore my comments below are aimed at the Facebook presentation and spin. ... Best regards, H.

 
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Alan
(Login AlanMcD)
YF

Just because you don't know where the heat goes does not make them an idiot

February 13 2012, 8:47 PM 

Yes, the compression will generate the same total amount of heat. But that does not mean that the two different systems are equal from a thermal management standpoint.

Amazingly, this looks like a single stage pump design. As such, it should run much cooler than a normal three stage hand pump. This is the full compression chamber gets a fresh ambient temperature charge inside it on the intake with each upstroke, and the entire compression tube is exposed to ambient to help radiate the heat better (unlike the three stage pumps, where the third stage only gets a hot pressurized charge coming in at about 800 psi already, and very little direct convective cooling of the pump tube since it is buried inside). I bet it is the larger tube acting as a radiator that is a bigger factor in the cooler operation than the big base block.

Based on what I understand of the design, it is a vastly supior step up from the cooling standpoint. The weekness of the three stage pumps is that the tird stage is buried deep inside the pump, reducing the ability of the compression toube to cool through normal convective processes.

I like it from a themal standpoint! It solves the REAL problem with today's hand pumps, which really isn't the effort - it is the thermal problem and the time it takes to fill a gun with the cool down time factored in.

If it is durable, the reduced peak effort is really just a bonus in my book. The continuous duty cycle is the real selling point. If it works, my Hill pump just lost half its value.

 
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Yrrah
(Login Yrrah)
YFOT

Alan I think Scot knows where the heat goes ..............

February 13 2012, 10:26 PM 

Now if that is a single tube, as you suggest, then it may explain why the graph shows the area under that turbo force inch curve is about double that of the generic pump? ... KR, Harry.

 
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Alan
(Login AlanMcD)
YF

Also, as a single tube, there is no work on the upstroke

February 14 2012, 7:46 AM 

I too thought the curves don't look very equal, but I think it is becasue it is a single stage design.

There is no compression on the up stroke on this new pump, and although it is no where near what is on the down stroke on a three stage pump, it does add up to quite a bit of work over the full cycle - the upstroke is equal to the down stroke on the first several strokes of a three stage hand pump.

I think the key here is that this is a very different animal to what we are used to, and the marketing guys that wrote up the description really don't understand what they are dealing with . . . .

 
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Glover, Walter
(Login Voltar1)
YFOT

Looks to be two tubes

February 14 2012, 9:17 AM 

don't recall any resistance on the upstroke of my FX pump....

This scissor pump lever looks to be the 392 pump that was the rage near 10 years ago.

Wonder if that is where that went happy.gif

 
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