Before PCP's I had several springers including a tuned R1, an R10, and the little carbine (C1?). I just dealt with the noise and recoil as being the nature of the beast. I got rid of them when I switched to PCP's. Lately, I have been missing the simplicity and being able to work on follow through.
I shot a friend's tuned R7 and it was very nice.
I'd like to make the smoothest, quietest, gentlest but still very accurate springer with power being a secondary consideration. Maybe tricking out and then detuning an R1,9,10 or an HW77 or a TX200. Lightest pellets prefered.
Is this ever done? Any advice or experience?
I don't like listening to a train wreck against my head.

The gun you want is an early HW77k or a mk1 HW97k...the one with the 25mm piston.

Tune for 11.5FPE (UK spec) in .177 or .22, I tune my own but for the US market I would fit a Vortek kit, just make sure to take time and size the piston seal ( I know Vorte say not needed but it is)

You will end up with a stunning air rifle, 40yards 1/2inch groups rested should be no issue at all, I plink with RWS Hobby in my .22's to 35 yards and often get 3/8th groups 5 pellets easy...so cheap fun shooting.

Its a heavy gun, but its worth going this route as it is a rifle built for smoothness, forget huge power, concentrate on smoothness, the 77k/97k will deliver.

The 26mm piston guns are also fine although not quite as fast, one way round this is to short stroke them by 5mm, again tune for 11.5FPE only.

here is one of mine, it started life as a full length .22 77, I shortened to 9.5inches (barrel)full bearings to compression tube, piston with rear bearing and inner sleeve, small OD spring (just under 19.5mm and 3mm wire)polished trigger...it hardly recoils at 11.4FPE

I don't know his experience with the 25mm (I assume) Vac seal from Vortek BUT my 26mm seals are a perfect fit in my later compression tubes. I no longer have a rounded opinion though in that I have become an underlever junkie. Very nice airgun Tony!

"Silence is the only thing that can hinder the Truth"

John

I found some of the vac seals were just tight enough to not let the piston glide down within the comp tubes when you jerk the tube down. I just spin them up with some 400's wet and dry and take a midges off them on the lathe before relubing and testing, i find doing this I get no power creep with use as the piston seal is already worn in

My next build is 25mm piston .177 77k, after reading a thread here with a few of you guys using O ring seals and Nylotron piston heads I think I will go this route. I recently went this route with a Webley Longbow and Cometa 400s and the results were very very nice,so its time to try a 77k next. I noted the pistons fly much faster with a piston sealed head and seal much better so I can use less spring to get the power i need.

If I were to tune an 80 (getting back to the OP's question) I would short stroke the piston and O ring seal it, fit a HW35 spring and add bearings to the piston....only issue is you may as well buy a 35 when you have done all this. The HW95 or 98 or the old raised scope rail 85's tune really well, they have 26mm pistons more suited to 12FPE and in a nice stock are are pleasure to shoot. If shooting off a back and consider the 98barrel with the heavy barrel (shroud) it really helps control muzzle flip.

n/t

The stock was carved from a Boyd's pepper laminate blank by Custom Stocks here in the UK, I had 2 done (one for a friend) however it seems someone has now entered into an exclusively agreement with Custom Stocks for laminate stocks and he is reportedly not carving any more.

Its a CS800 with 20+ coats of Danish oil buffed in.

The other side



Onto using a break barrel over an underlever, I have many springers (many HW springers) and my addiction lies with the 77's and 97's, there is just something about them that makes them better than the break barrels. I have a 95 in a Custom CS500 stock, fully tuned with full bearings and a HW98 .177 barrel, its nice do not get me wrong here, but its not 77k nice by a long way.

HW50's, now that is one gun I would like to have a go at, tuned for 10FPE in .177...pure plinker

that is one fine rifle. I love the HW77 and HW97, heard you got rid of your TX's

My .22 HW97K is at about 15FPE right now, i bet if I got an HW97 or HW77 .177 at about 12~13FPE tuned, it would be a real smooth shooter.

Have you shot any tuned springers, the reason I ask this is because I have to agree with you. Some springers even though they are brand new are not smooth to shoot, lot's of twang and just a lot of sounds going on inside. If you get a tune from somebody who knows his stuff the gun will be smooth as silk to cock and shoot. I have a 22 cal R-1 with a Venom spring tuned by Gary Steele from B&B supply , it has no recoil no twang and it's a joy to shoot. And by the way it's shooting FTS pellets at 850 Fps. It's a shame that even when you buy a quality gun ( not the Chinese imports ) they still need a little massaging to get them where you want them to be. If your going to spend the money for a De - Tune why not ask them if a regular tune will give you what your looking for as well as retaining the power. Good luck Jim

If you can be happy with a 10% to 15% reduction in power and easier shooting, just leave it cocked when you're not using it. I had one (not an R1) that was close to 12 ft/lb (14 ft/lb) and it took about 6 months of leaving it cocked to de tune it.

I like the 7-7.5 lb weight range and simplicity of a break barrel.

http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=10900631

K in NY

It's easy to do. There are several mild spring choices for each and you'll still get good power. You can think of it as a large R7. Personally, I like the idea for the R1 but the others will also work out well if done correctly.

I wouldn't choose the TX-200 or 77/97 to do it to because you still have the pesky breech seal wear problem to contend with on both of them. That's most under-lever rifles for you. But, it's a non-existent issue on the barrel cocking rifles you mentioned. Their breech seal set-up is rock solid.



Happy Shooting!

Ed, The Airgun Tune-Meister


"We can rebuild the squirrel. Make him stronger, faster...We have the technology"---Skyler M.

77 and 97 beech seals at sub12 last for years and years...you guys run guns hot 99% of the time and this causes the wear. I just stripped a 1984 UK 77k and its still on the original piston seal and breech seal ( I know the previous owner), after this gun has fired maybe 10's of thousands of pellets the seals are still completely usable with the power output slightly higher than when it was new.

Plus, the seal material JM and Vortek use now is really quite hard wearing...it would not be an issue IMO

I can strip a 77k in 5 minutes, I can strip an 80 in 4mins 30 secs...i would take the 30sec penalty every time LOL

lets be dead honest here, a 77k is no harder to work on than an 80, or 35, or 55, in fact a 95 is harder with all the pegs etc you have to remove.

With that time table, the TX200 will take 1 minute. The underlevers 77/97 and the TX/PS also don't have the problem of nicking the piston seal on insertion. Very easy to nick the seal on the break barrels.

No matter how many FPE it's shooting or what country you live in, the breech seal set-up on the TX-200 and 77/97 is more vulnerable than it is on the barrel cocking guns.

That's because with every shot the seals get pounded upon by a hammer. That hammer is the piston.

For that reason the breech seals on under-lever rifles should be periodically-checked for wear and leakage. It may not happen as fast on every one of them, but it will happen more often on the under-lever models than it does on the barrel cocking rifles. The seals on the break-barrel rifles don't have to take the same pounding as the ones on the under-lever rifles that were named.


Happy Shooting!

Ed, The Airgun Tune-Meister


"We can rebuild the squirrel. Make him stronger, faster...We have the technology"---Skyler M.

but sometimes ...ya gotta give Em a good swift kick in the nuts ! =^D))))))))))))))000000000000 LOL.

No kicking here. It's OK.

Happy Shooting!

Ed, The Airgun Tune-Meister


"We can rebuild the squirrel. Make him stronger, faster...We have the technology"---Skyler M.

The cocking shoe also plays a part. If there is slack then the tube will be driven forward at the end of the stroke. A tight shoe helps stop the forward motion. For me, the ease of popping in a breech seal(less than 1 minute)is well worth the extra teardown time with the break barrel. Of course the 77/97 is harder than the TX, but I only have TX's.

I did a couple detuned .20 R1's for DDay that ran about 14 fpe with FTS pellets. The firing cycle was tuned R7 sweet. And was capable of some serious 50 yard groups. The springs were from Jim Maccari but I don't recall the stock number. RB

"The Universe is comprised mainly of two things.. hydrogen and ignorance."
John Dobson
Inventor, astronomer and metaphysical thinker.