Just moved back to the Front Range - Denver area --- and I'm glad to be back! Finally got a couple of my springers tuned and I'm looking to find some help evaluating a Paul Watts tune vs a Vortex tune in simular rifles. I don't think one is necessarily better, but I think it comes down to a matter of taste.
I shot with a few of the local airgunners a few years back north in the Thornton area at a rock dealer. Can't remember the name of the place. Just wondering if there are any informal get togethers happening in the area.
Bought and sold with a few of you guys but I don't have anymore contacts since they went when my old computer died.
Most people like the parts but it's not a tune. If you only install a seal, spring and guide pieces you've done nothing to smooth the cocking mechanism, prevent metal to metal sliding, stone and adjust the sear, etc. Not to say that you couldn't do that using Vortex parts and since the spring and guide are replaced as a set, the fit is presumably very good. I personally don't buy that the external guide does a thing but that's my opinion (turn it around and put it inside the piston and then you have something....).
There is already a snug fitting internal guide which centers the spring around the piston rod, the external guide does nothing. Having a guide inside the piston aids in damping the un-supported portion of the spring post firing.
I guess the point is you lack objectivity re: Vortek kits?
April 11 2012, 10:24 AM
I'm sorry you had less than stellar results with the kit you purchased for your son's M34. IIRC, Tom Gore at Vortek did his best to make you happy even after you posted on several forums about your less than desirable results.
I don't see how you can say the external guide does nothing? Every gun I've installed one of these kits in, these results were obvious and for the better.
Vortek kit is a great otion for DIY and indeed can provide a tune
April 10 2012, 11:01 AM
depends on your mechanical aptitude and access to tools.
Cannot really compare the two but for me the logical choice is the DIY Vortek kit with which the firing cycle is tamed and likely hits about 80% what a pro may provide.
So it really depends on your style of doing things and what your desired end result is.
It's hard to compare a professional hands on tune with a user fitted aftermarket kit -
April 10 2012, 11:21 AM
Apples and oranges. If you like to tinker and are not intimidated at the thought of working on your own airgun, then I would highly recomend one of the Vortek kits. I have Vortek kits in all of my guns. A TX 200, two Diana M34 Panthers (177 &22) and a M48.
Paul Watts on the other hand will basically overhaul your whole gun, removing any rough or trouble spots, hone the main tube, cut, choke, re-crown your barrel, etc. It is the whole enchilada, but requires significantly more $ and time.
EDIT: My bad Walter, this was supposed to be a response to the original post.
This message has been edited by stevevines on Apr 10, 2012 11:31 AM
A "Professional" tune addresses issues that are particular to You & Your Rifle that no mere kit even begins to cover, and the kit and parts installed function considerably better when they are properly fitted. If You Are Not mechanically inclined, or a Patient analytical sort send the gun out for a tune !!! ;^)
I have two R7s in .177 cal. On one I've got a professional tune and in the other a drop-in vortek kit.
Both improve the gun versus the original factory setup.
The pro tune results in a far better overall shooting package than the vortek kit alone.
The vortek kit is a better value in terms of incremental improvement for each $ spent.
IMHO, the magical effects of vortek or JM kits are almost always exaggerated. "Smooth as butter", "more powerful with less recoil", "near silent, just a thump....". Not my experience. They are helpful and good value, but amazingly, they don't cure cancer.
I have both a Paul Watts tuned springer and springers with tune kits. The rifle tuned by Paul is definitely much more refined than my kit tuned guns. It's hard to explain but for me it's sort of like closing the door on a really expensive auto and comparing it to closing the door on an ordinary auto. Both close really well and do what they are designed to do but the door on the really expensive auto just feels better closing. Better fit, tighter tolerances, better quality. You may not be able to see it but you know it is there just by closing the door.
The trade off is Paul is more expensive, and should be, for what you get.
If you send your gun to Paul you are probably looking at a close to a year before it comes back. Good work takes time and lots of people are in line.
If you send it to Paul you will not be disappointed when you get the gun back, you will not wonder if it was worth the cost. He is that good at what he does.
If you go with a kit, and install it yourself you can be back shooting in a matter of days, or how ever long it takes to ship to your house. You can feel the difference in the shot cycle and will be happy unless you already have a Watts tuned gun, then your not quite as impressed. Overall though a kit will improve your gun by leaps and bounds, it will make you a better shooter simply because you have more confidence in the gun. But installing a kit is not a completely tuned gun as noted by other above.
There are many tuners out there, most simply install kits, a few do more, but Paul is without a doubt the best I have ever used. You have to remember that Paul does it all, he can make a beautiful stock, blue the gun, make after market priority parts, choke barrels, and pretty much anything that has to do with a springer.
I have a Paul Watts tuned 97 and it is great. I've had other rifles tuned by other tuners and I appreciate what a good tune will do for a gun. Just had my 77 tuned with a Vortek by John in PA and he did a great job. My intent was to see if anyone else was interested in seeing what the difference is. I definitely will be sending more work to Paul. I may use the Vortek again in certain applications.
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