.25 cal vs .30 cal advantages ? worth the money ?December 4 2012 at 3:10 PM
|fredDurst (Login jayhuse)|
I am curious on your thoughts of the new .30 cals vs a high power .25 cal. I am speaking about the new 30 Cal fx boss and the 303 Daystate. My question is with regards to opening up to hunting larger game vs a super High powered .25 cal Air Force condor or Evanix Ar 6. Now the condor shoots about 60 FPE and some other upgraded .25 cals are approaching 60 to 100 FPE. They indicated that the 30 cal FX boss is 78FPE and the Daystate is around 120FPE.
the question comes down to is the FX boss or Daystate worth the extra cash ? The .30 Cals seem very pricey right now.
Does the .30 cal offer any advantage on game ? Coyotes, foxes, coon ?
I dont know if it is or not
|December 4 2012, 3:35 PM |
I do know that the 30's buck the wind better than a .25
The 30 Leaves a bigger hole in game animals than a .25
I am sure just Like all the modded 25's out there the 30's can also be modded for more power
I had a 65 FPE Condor in .22 befor
Now I have a 50+ FPE Bam 51 in .25 The 25 hits alot harder than the condor did
I can hear the thwack on crows much more pronounced with the 25 at less FPE
Plus I do notice that the 25 drops the crows faster than the 22 did
Personally if I had the coin I would go for the Boss
The wolverine is making more power but it is lacking in shot count and is LOUD
if you could make i back yard friendly I would opt for the Wolverine
The only reason I use air guns is because they are quieter to shoot I dont need ear protection with them and alot of places have opened up to hunting to me due to the low noise of the air guns where I other wise couldnt hunt with a powder burner.
I'm sure there will be .30 caliber expansion...
|December 4 2012, 3:36 PM |
Therefore, you might want to wait so you don't have to pay the "early adopter premium". I'm sure the Koreans are gonna come out with something sooner rather than later in the .30 caliber category...they're notoriously power hungry.
I'd go for .30 caliber. There is a saying that goes "if you jump, you'd best jump far". 30 caliber has ~44% greater frontal area compared to .25, so it should deliver much more energy up front. Sure, you can overdrive a heavy Korean .25 caliber slug, and the math will tell you they carry the same energy, but the way they deliver it will be quite different. Also, .25 caliber has always seemed notoriously finicky to me.
There's always gonna be detractors who will need to assert absurdities like ".30 caliber isn't really big bore" because they have to feel reassured in all the money they tied up in their low production 1 or 2 shot large caliber guns, and hand cast slugs. But a .30 caliber that can deliver 10-40 shots in the field before refilling just sounds much more inline with what airgunning is, and just more fun all around. If you want to hunt big game, you probably need to stick with a firearm.
You asked for opinions. That's mine.
So you going to hunt squirrels with that .30 cal?
|December 4 2012, 5:32 PM |
Just use a firearm for big game? Why? The game taking power of big bore airguns has been proven. You don need a custom big bore either. What about guns like the Sam Yang? No, you not going to take 100 yard shots with one. but who cares? I use to hunt with a .45cal flintlock. Kept my shots to 50 yards or less.. killed my first deer with one shot. You can do the same with an airgun. and as for having 10-40 shots, if you need that for big game, get out of the woods! I can't wait for NYS to open deer hunting to airguns! the only powder burner I have left is a .22, and only because i really like it....
Know guns, Know peace, know liberty.
No guns, no peace no liberty.
|This message has been edited by POP22 on Dec 5, 2012 8:37 PM|
I would if I had one...:)
|December 4 2012, 6:03 PM |
I'd hunt anything with a 30 cal as I would a 177. Now WHERE I'd hunt, and how many shots I might have to pass on due to long range carry of the 30 cal...who's to say. I sure as ^&^%$ wouldn't go hunting nesting barn swallows in my pole barn with a Boss or Wolverine. XS12 is plenty for that.
|December 4 2012, 6:27 PM |
|This message has been edited by CheckUrSix on Dec 4, 2012 8:42 PM|
Only the size of the hole it makes. To me, those guns while
|December 4 2012, 4:04 PM |
nice arent worth the money. But that's just me.
If you want a big bore and you want power, you can buy a true 308 from makers right here in the states and they cost less.
But 25 vs 303/308 with both shooting pellets at 70-100 FPE, the only difference is the size of the entrance and exit hole it makes.
But for me to be fair, Daystate and FX never claimed their guns would be power kings. Its simply something DIFFERENT and probably more refined than the Airforce guns. And refinement in the airgun world comes with a higher price tag.
At that level, its all about bores that shoot bullets. Like my TD257 at 135 FPE!
Re: .25 cal vs .30 cal advantages ? worth the money ?
|December 4 2012, 4:11 PM |
If your wanting to hunt nothing larger than large hog then I'd say 30 cal is a wast of time. Unless you plan to hunt big game and even then a .45 would be better choice than .30. Plenty of videos on youtube documenting .25 cal effectiveness against medium size game. It's all about shot placement if you unsure of your ability to place the shot right were it needs to be then go with the larger caliber.
Here's one example and this guy isn't even shooting pcp
|This message has been edited by liquidxskin on Dec 4, 2012 4:13 PM|
Hmmmmmmm? "shot placement" becomes less critical with
|December 4 2012, 5:14 PM |
Larger projectile at the same given FPE/FPS. In hunting when you must take a fairly quick shot, and both have the same accuracy I would go with the .30 cal. Shot Placement becomes highly critical in 177 cal.
I would rather hit the game with one .30 cal and feel more assured if I only get one hit it is with the most affect. On the other hand "Shot Placement is VERY critical in Paper Punching. little un-clear on your comment "waste of time" seems it takes the same time to shoot. Might be a "waste" of money for the extra lead.
|This message has been edited by CheckUrSix on Dec 4, 2012 5:17 PM|
The bore volume of calibers increases exponentialy, everything
|December 4 2012, 4:18 PM |
up to .30 is good, beyond .30 effcieny in "airguns" falls as you go up in cal. hth.
ummm...it is a squared function...NT
|December 4 2012, 6:05 PM |
How do I manage to use under 10 bar*cc/fpe in .50, .62?
|December 4 2012, 6:50 PM |
if efficiency falls off? If you tried to match a given .30's energy, reaching it in .25 is less efficient than .45.
Or going up in calibre allows more power at the same efficiency.
|This message has been edited by CO222 on Dec 4, 2012 6:52 PM|
At 900 fps. ? n/t
|December 5 2012, 8:19 AM |
how 'bout 8.5 bar-cc/FPE at 850?
|December 5 2012, 6:08 PM |
For 85 FPE in 25 cal?
That's a usual 2563 Marauder shot worth of air, for double the FPE.
|December 4 2012, 4:34 PM |
In the not to distant past, there were plenty of folks right here on this forum debating whether the .25 was a good choice over a high powered .22. People complained about the cost of the .25 pellet in comparison to the scores of good quality .22 pellets available, etc. The debate went on for a LONG time. Do a search on caliber choice, and it may surprise you at how recently the .25 was thought to be a silly caliber. It wasn't until recently (in airgun terms)that the .25 has really caught on. VERY popular caliber right now, and there are more choices in that caliber today than ever.
So, now there are some larger bore choices to make... Crosman popped out the Rogue, and you can dis it all you want, but it is a larger caliber air rifle that is readily available. Daystate brings out the Wolverine, and now FX the Boss. An advantage over a .25? Is a .25 pellet an advantage over a .22? With just the advantage in cross section of the head, I say it is.
I think one thing that is really getting over looked is that with the larger factories now looking at increasing bore diameter, some real life development will now start taking place with these larger bores. OK, so the Wolverine will only do a dozen shots per fill, but the FX will do 35 or better. Name another big bore (larger than .25) that will do that. I sure can't think of one. And, this is just the very beginning.
Ced, I hear ya about your TalonDor... But how many shots that thing get off a full 500cc bottle? 5?, maybe 10? Yes, enough for hunting, I get that. But imagine getting 20 or more at that same power level... or more. The FX putting out 75-78ft/lbs is king in power output + shot count out in the market today. I can't even think of anything that comes close. Couple that with the accuracy potential the gun has shown not only by winning the Extreme Bench Rest shoot in AZ, but also in the very capable hands of Flintsack., and others.
Eating, sleeping, and breathing airguns, I for one am more than excited to have the .30 on the playing feild, and look forward to seeing what the future brings with it. IF I didn't have every nickle I have tied up in trying to do production, you bet your a$$ I'd have a Boss sitting right next to me at this very moment.
See more picts @http://davegcustomstocks.com
+1Well said Dave.
|December 4 2012, 5:15 PM |
Thank you for your input Dave. I like the fact that you cover pretty much all aspect of the .25 VS .30.
I have fund put aside for a new AG. I have a choice between the Boss, Wolverine and the "engineering marvel" Metisse. I do not shoot FT so the Metisse is out the window. I liked everything about the Wolverine except the shoot count and the noise level. With being said, the Boss has 3x shoot count and a little batter in the noise department.
I voted for the Boss and hope to have it by christmas,
I concur Dave...the .30 Boss is Highly tempting and probably
|December 4 2012, 5:22 PM |
at the end of the big bore cal I will consider. Fredrik used a Boss .30 cal to win a competition. Shows much promise, and 30 shots are plenty for a serious hunter IMO.
Dave, I hear ya, but with a 500 cc tank, i too can dumb down
|December 4 2012, 6:58 PM |
my power and increase shot count. Same as if the FX BOSS "INCREASED" its power then its shot count would go down. Im making 135 FPE and the FX is 75. I can turn mine down to that and gain a ton of shots.
The FX is no different than my Condor in the fact that they can be adjusted power wise.
But no complaints from me on either gun, i just prefer bullets over pellets and IF i had the spare money, i would buy one. Just in my situation financially, my TALONDOR is supreme. That's all.
you know I get it Tofaz...
|December 4 2012, 7:36 PM |
IMHO, they are ALL good! The Talandor, the Wolverine, the Boss, heck, even the Daisy red ryder.
There is one thing that I will point out here though, that I do feel is relavent. While I spend my share of time playing with bores to shoot cast bullets, I do so understanding that this type of set up is not the main stream in Airgunning (and probably never will be). More people may join in the fun, but shooting cast bullets at over 100ft/lbs (and up) will always be a very small percentage of the airgunning pass time.
It isn't for everyone... MANY tried and true airgunners still prefer to shoot .177's. Far more than would consider a 135ft/lb blaster.
But... The Boss, I think that baby is gonna carve out a new nitch on it's own. I personally feel like it has just the right blend of power, and usability to become the new ".25" wet dream for main stream airgunners. Not so different from what we call familiar, but different enough to make us want one.
I said it earlier, and I will say it again. It wasn't that long ago where the argument was whether a .25 is a good choice over a tuned .22. Well, it is.
See more picts @http://davegcustomstocks.com
I knew you did...lol! And its all about preference. And yes,
|December 4 2012, 8:25 PM |
todays airgunners are ALL ABOUT SHOT COUNT AND SILENCE. Such as most on the Yellow were as other forums have people who hunt and who like power and range.
Cast bullets have been around in big bores for many years via DAQ and the Korean guns as well as others. I see them definitely gaining in popularity but i'm a little bit more optimistic about the future of them than you....lol! But the future CANNOT be guessed. Just assumed. So, i at least HOPE bullets gain more popularity. A more efficient projectile is just the next step in evolution of airguns. There are lots of power hungry guys out there who hunt as well as guys who like to paper punch or plink tin cans.
So there is something for all to be had.
For some reason, my "PSYCHIC" side see's you getting a 30 cal ST barrel real soon and putting it in one of your actions.....LOL! Oooops, did i spoil it?! LOL LOL LOL LOL (im in trouble for that i know).
Would love to get my hands on a Wolverine.