Are the V-Glide systems so good compared to sayMarch 17 2017 at 2:47 PM
|James Dingle (Login JamesDingle777)|
a professional Vortex tune by John in PA or any tuner that they warrant the extreme cost? For those that know, what is the best tune kit, or tune job by World known tuners available?
Reason I'm asking is I think a V-glide kit costs more than say a basic tune by Paul Watts or Hector Medina. They may even cost more than advanced tunes Paul gives or custom pistons Hector builds for Diana's. Are v-glides THAT great? As far as V-Mach, how do they compare to Vortex or Maccari, etc?
Hey James - don't the V-Glide kits include pistons and such? -
|March 17 2017, 8:04 PM |
that would certainly justify a higher retail than a spring/rear guide/tophat/lube scenario. My guess, plus they're made in England?
Yes the Glide is a entire replacement where the Mach is a spring, Guide, and seal
|March 17 2017, 9:34 PM |
But it's over $400.00 and I'm asking for those that have or tried all types if it is so noticeably better than a Vortek or basic tune by a professional.
I got a Venom internalized HW 97 Centennial-goes thunk every time.Awesome.nt
|March 17 2017, 9:52 PM |
I have a V-Mach V-Glide in my HW97K
|March 18 2017, 12:35 AM |
I recently installed a 12ft-lb V-Glide in my HW97. I ordered it directly from V-Mach in England. The cylinder and piston are beautiful and have a quicker shot cycle than the stock piston. My rifle is now much more repeatable with a small standard deviation and extreme spread, and this results in better accuracy in WFTF. I think you'll find that with the recent strength of the dollar, that you can order a kit directly from V-Mach for less than $400, although you will wait a couple of months while they build it. Well worth the investment IMO.
Just my opinion
|March 18 2017, 6:51 AM |
No sense tuning a gun that doesn't stand out for accuracy.
If it is crazy accurate, the next thing to concentrate on is the trigger.
If you have those two things in your pocket get a stock that fits.
If you have those three things in your pocket, and it's a 77/97, there's not a lot of sense in doing anything more than buying the V-Glide from Pope directly. It uses a 25 mm comp tube.
The 25 mm comp tube piston is around 200 grams, a better suited weight for sub 12 FPE. Tuning a 26 mm comp tube gun for sub 12 requires working with a 235 gram piston.
I'm not saying ther isn't a tuner out there who hasn't cracked that nut for sub-12. I just think it's harder.
VMach in an R9
|March 18 2017, 10:22 AM |
A friend of mine has an R9 in .177 with a VMach kit. Just the spring, guide and seal. It's buzz free, and makes good power. But the Maccari kit in mine was buzz free, made the same power, and had less recoil.
And was 60 or so bucks cheaper.
Now the one with the whole piston may be a better improvement, but I somehow doubt it. I would have a custom oring seal piston cap made and tune it to suit instead. I think that would be a much better setup for the money.
I tried both Vortek and Maccari spring and guide tunes in my HW77K 25mm. All were nice. But once I had an oring seal cap made, and slightly drilled the transfer port, it was a huge difference. Just a quick "thack" and a gentle nudge at the shoulder and you've got a 13fpe CPL headed down range. That's with a Maccari GSX OX spring kit behind it, with 2 of the 3 spacers installed.
For me, I can't see spending the $400 on a drop in kit. Id rather spend that money to have a well known tuner do a tune with an oring sealed piston. They can tailor the spring and seal to YOUR gun and what you want it to do. And also change the transfer port if needed. Barrel snugness and caliber should be taken into consideration for the best super picky tune.
IMO, the piston bearings are unnecessary on the underlevers. But buttons on a piston of a breakbarrel can't hurt.
Just thinking out loud and sharing my little tinkerings. It's hard to go wrong with any tune these days. We are lucky to have the options. Better than sending it to Beeman's to have them pack it full of goop!
|This message has been edited by limbshaker on Mar 18, 2017 10:28 AM|
Thank you all. K and C, you really narrowed what I was wondering down
|March 18 2017, 11:25 AM |
Knobs you are so right about order of looking to accurize, and Mr. Jones you answered my main question of "Is this so much better than a vortek or tune by say JIPA, Slade, Watts, etc. They all have their specialties but each is a Master to a certain brand or modification. Paul is probably the most world wide known tuner. I believe his rifles are even desired in The UK. John in PA and Hector Medina are Diana Kings. Mr. David Slade does it all, PCP's, sprig guns, everything. The most famous among US is most likely AZ but he'd be really hard pressed to even touch and work on a spring gun.
I personally trust JIPA with all my guns as he's close and fair priced; AND I'm ALWAYS ecstatic with the results of every gun I've gotten from him. He does do PCP's also but his main gig is Diana Spring guns.
I just wanted to know if this Kit or custom piston by Hector is worth it for me. I have JIPA tuned with Vortek kits Diana 48 in .177 & a Beeman R1 Laser (just the stock now as it's been replaced by a custom vortek by John, JIPA) in .22 I'm VERY happy with both as they are pin point accurate out to 50 yards if I do my part. I admittedly need a Chronograph but don't have the money and POI tells me they are doing fine. I still need one because I plan on building my own spring compressor out of a good solid old round steel fabricated wood clamp and learning how to tune spring guns right. I need to talk with John and figure out what's best to learn on and he's already told me some are NOT easy as assembly is not like a PCP. Some trigger groups are held in place by pins that must be inserted at right time/spot of spring being compressed and such. I know side levers are harder. Supposedly TX's are easy to work on.
I like to take cheap guns and make them shoot as well as I can, which believe me can be done with a bit of love and know how. Yeah I'd LOVE to have a new Grizzly Lathe, Mill on all axis points, Drill press, belt and disc sander. No money for those as of now. I really messed up when I bought so many air guns. I fell in love and it couldn't be helped. 10 years down the road I'm now wishing I'd followed my Fathers 1st career as a Machinist tool & die maker (then another 20 years at PP&L Martins Creek Power plant on The Delaware) as I'd have had the equipment and a teacher to get me building all the air guns I wanted. My dumb mistake.
So here I am looking to accurize affordable air guns where it can be done. What I can't do I have a best Friend who does have the equipment and know how to do everything air gun for me at $15.00PH. Very fair, but Wife is NEVER pleased to put any money into my "stupid" hobby. I do NOT blame her and I try to do everything myself unless I know I can't.
All in all, thank you Guys. You save me from dumb ideas of selling one rifle to get cash to better another. In this learned reality it isn't necessary at all as I'm not a FT competitor and in a spring gun if all is good I don't think you should ever see more than a 15fps spread from a tuned rifle. Being that it takes a 40FPS spread to even change POI 1/4" at 50 yards, I now know my 3 spring guns are as good as I need them to be. Thank you so much for your real world experience. I learn every day be it here, Wikipedia, documentaries, tutorials, etc. I consider the computer as a free endless college courses. YOU guys on The Yellow help me with what I love. I need to join an Archery Forum but I've even had a HUGE amount of help and blessings from Guys here. Thank you all so very much.
A kit is not really a tune
|March 18 2017, 10:59 AM |
I tend to agree with Tony Wall, a favorite tuner of the Verminhunterstv Youtube channel. A kit is part of a tune. A good tune by one of the top guys is basically blueprinting the gun. Every internal surface is addressed, receiver tube is honed and polished, trigger is normally smoothed, etc. I am sure the V-glide kit is a wonderful product, but not necessarily a replacement for a good tune. Kind of like a brand new engine in a car with a so-so transmition and slightly worn tires.
Makes sense. I believe Mr. Watts would have a rifle
|March 18 2017, 1:45 PM |
shooting much better with one of his full advanced tunes and mostly stock parts rather than a drop in V-Glide, Vortek, etc. Again though for me, I've never had the pleasure of firing a Watts tuned rifle. I did have a professional R1 from Mike Mckeown and it was amazingly smooth. Not too many people have a sunnen honing machine.
Heavier piston for full power kits
|March 18 2017, 7:00 PM |
Are a benefit to reduce piston bounce. I weighted the piston in my R-1 .20 cal with an exotic material that allows me to get the Vglide piston weight. The rifle makes considerably more than 20 ftlbs and is nice shoot ing with a full power vtek kit, plus other ful tuning mods. Without the weighted piston the piston bounce was ugly. With the right piston weight the gun just goes squish
It is very accurate and has many 50 + yd first shot kills to it's credit, including a 70 yd asian dove this am