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What makes a V Mach more expensive than

October 9 2017 at 8:56 AM
Josh3rd  (Login josh3rd)
YF12

a vortek or Tinbum kit? I know that proper fitting guides are the ideal way to go, so let's just stick with the question at hand...

To me it seems like a vortek and v mach are one in the same. Unless I didn't see something right but on AOA's site it showed a V Mach with a (not sure the exact name/terminology) outter spring guide/sleeve just like a vortek but cost more. Are we paying for the name or better quality?

What's your perception and/or opinion?




 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

Well....if you're talking about this AOA offering..........

October 9 2017, 10:01 AM 

http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/v-mach/
The $350ish cost includes.........
Description
V-Glide Kit - Includes Precision Piston
, Spring, Piston Seal, Spring Guide, Oil and Grease fits Weihrauch HW85, HW95, HW98. High Power. FAC.

"vortek and v mach are one in the same."
I tend to disagree in ignorance since I've never ponied up the coin for a V-Mach kit but I did buy one Vortex PG2 kit and made my own spring kit with a bare Vortek spring. Both springs sagged quickly with the PG2 kit losing 60fps shooting less than one case of CPLs (swapped out the kit at 4500 shots) and the spring kit I made up with a bare Vortek spring started dropping velocity at about 2500 shots. Matter of fact, both kits held nicely for 2500 shots before noticing a power drop off.

"outter spring guide/sleeve just like a vortek but cost more"
u6DOSwMh.jpg
Looking at pics of some V-Mach kits it looks like the "metal sleeve" is simply a piston liner like HW supplies with their HW95 pistons. Also notice that this V-Mach kit has a metal guide and flange.
7AshGMYh.png
Here is a Vortek kit removed from a HW98 showing the "outer guide" which is integral with an inner guide and base flange.........
74CmXN4h.jpg

"Are we paying for the name or better quality? "
I'm GUESSING both, plus the V-Mach long standing reputation.

Concerning the cost:
I recently ordered some small parts from the UK for a HW97 and my HW95. Here is what I received for $58.50
WhRgHEVh.jpg
Perhaps the fact that the V-Mach parts originating in the UK also has a bearing on the cost!

 
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Josh3rd
(Login josh3rd)
YF12

My bad Ed, i should have been more specific

October 9 2017, 11:02 AM 

a V Mach kit for Prosport/TX which cost I think $160+/-. I see the metal liner as to a fully closed putter spring guide of vortek. Then the both have an internal spring guide. V Mach is metal and vortek delrin or plastic. I'm guess that a purchaser is basically paying for metal? So when you chose a vortek kit and it began to fail, has that been enough for you to forgo using them ever again? I have read that some time ago a lot of his Springs failed to meet the required foot-pounds of energy that they were advertising at. Like their 12 foot-pounds srings were nowhere near close to being 12 foot pounds and I have heard and read that also some time ago that there were numerous failures in their products. But then I recently read that he had corrected whatever mistakes was going on at that time such as the quality of the springs he was using and now that he puts out very good quality stuff. Any opinions/feedback? And $50+ for just those 3 pcs??? Man oh man that's crazy.

Hey Ed I wish I could make it to Damascus the 15th. Maybe the one after that. Which is when?

 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

I really have little use for "advertized fpe" because guns are all different and they.....

October 9 2017, 2:26 PM 

can have vastly different fpe output, even if the same spring kit is being used. I'm hoping that the recent Vortek springs have improved because I really like the way I can order their springs with a desired number of coils, various wire gages and a good selection of inside diameters. Also, Tom at Vortek was a terrific vendor to deal with (A1 customer service) so my only issue has been "rapid spring sagging".

When I bought my PG2 kit for my R9 it was early in the "production line" so it came with unclosed spring ends and a really heavy steel top hat. Here's a pics showing the heavy top hat and unclosed spring end.......
1BXk3nIh.jpg
Initially that PG2 kit produced way more velocity than I liked since the R9 was shooting CPLs at a snappy 960fps. To resolve the "excess velocity" I removed the thick top hat and replaced it with a thinner rim steel top hat of my own which dropped the CPL velocity to an acceptable (at that time) 910fps using a Vortek VAC seal. Actually, I was "happy as a clam" shooting almost two 1250 count boxes of CPLs before noticing that my shot cycle had changed. After shooting a few CPLs over my chrony I found that the velocity had dropped from 910fps to 880fps shooting two boxes of CPLs (two months shooting at that time). I disassembled the R9 and replaced my home turned top hat with the original heavy thick rim top hat and the CPL velocity did increase to an "acceptable to me at that time" 910fps (50fps less than when new) and again I was OK with the result. A couple more months passed and at around half way through the 4th CPL box I again noticed a change in the shot cycle and a few CPLs over the chrony showed that the velocity had again dropped to 880fps. During the 4 months using the PG2 kit my velocity dropped 80fps so it was retired and replaced with a home made spring kit based on a Maccari Hornet spring.

A couple more years pass and I noticed that the Vortek springs have closed spring ends, plus I read several positive reviews so I ordered this bare spring from Vortek to "try again"............
PDseWFAh.jpg
LOL....I was very pleased that my existing HW spring guide actually fit the spring snugly with no twang or vibration so there was no need to cut a new guide, only a top hat. As with the PG2 kit, within 2500 shots I noticed that my velocity had dropped 30fps so I pulled that spring, again reverting back to a Maccari offering.

Anywhoo......if indeed the current Vortek offerings are "long lived" I'd be pleased to give them another try but I'm a bit "gun shy" at the moment. I remember the first complete Maccari spring kit I bought a couple decades ago for my .177 Beeman R10 and when new the springer was shooting 7.9 grain pellets at 910fps. After a couple years shooting 10,000 pellets per year when living in West Virginia the velocity was still 905fps after shooting 25,000 shots on the same spring (shot count judged by counting empty pellet tins and boxes).

When living in West Virginia my brother and I would make the 1 1/2 hour trek to DIFTA field target matches in Damascus. Even after moving to North Carolina I would do the "monthly DIFTA match" because I would be taking care of the empty WV property. After selling the WV property I no longer made it to the DIFTA club and since their current "match days" are on Sundays I doubt that I'd be shooting there even if I still lived in WV. I'm currently associated with the THAGC in NC and their matches are held on Saturdays. Here are the web sites.............
http://www.thagc.com/
http://centralcarolinagunclub.wildapricot.org/Field-Target


    
This message has been edited by SpringerEd on Oct 9, 2017 2:36 PM


 
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Josh3rd
(Login josh3rd)
YF12

Darn Ed now im gun shy so what am i to do?

October 9 2017, 8:39 PM 

Should I just get a delrin spring guide made for the oem spring or go the JM, v mach or some other way?

 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

With your new gun, what's the problem with simply...........

October 9 2017, 9:10 PM 

shooting a few tins of pellets through it? New parts do need to "wear together" (also called breaking in) before things smooth out nicely. I have no experience with ProSports but one thing I do with new HW break barrels is to readjust the barrel pivot tension. Every one I've received has had the pivot tension adjusted much too tight from the factory. Perhaps the AirArms break barrels are set up better from the factory but I really don't know.

Seriously....if it were me I'd just shoot the thing. LOL...the ProSport isn't a $320 HW95!

Anywhoo....I'm sure that there are some here with a lot of ProSport experience than can offer some more valid advice!

 
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Josh3rd
(Login josh3rd)
YF12

Stop it Ed, you know i value your advice. Nt

October 9 2017, 9:13 PM 


 
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Don Armstrong
(Login doninva1)
YF12

I shot with a gentleman who had a HW97 with a V mach

October 9 2017, 7:01 PM 

and he was very satified with it. If my memory serves me he won the field target shoot in hunter that day. He has only been shooting about a year and has one several shoots. Don

 
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Josh3rd
(Login josh3rd)
YF12

Well +1 for v mach. Nt

October 9 2017, 8:40 PM 


 
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Johnp
(Login johnp66)
YF

I had the V mach in my R1,,,,

October 9 2017, 8:07 PM 

And i loved it!
.

 
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Josh3rd
(Login josh3rd)
YF12

John have you ever had other types of kits or springs?

October 9 2017, 8:43 PM 

And if so, which did you prefer or was the v mach the top pic?

 
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Jerry
(Login glr59)
YF

I've had many..

October 10 2017, 7:13 AM 

many Vortek kits over the years. They've all sagged to some degree. They produce a very nice shot cycle though. I've had 1 v-mach kit and 2 Maccari kits. The v-mach and Maccari kits both improved the shot cycles but still left a slight buzz. Their guides have not been quite as tight as Vortek's kits. All my experimentation has been with R9's and TX's.

I currently have a maccari kit in my R9. Nice shot cycle pushing AA 8.4 at around 880fps. Slight buzz. I've also had Ed make me guides and pistons over the years and I my have him just make me a tighter guide for the Maccari kit at this point.


Jerry L.
"Grasshopper" Student of the game.....

 
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Josh3rd
(Login josh3rd)
YF12

Duly noted. And who's Ed? NT

October 10 2017, 7:50 AM 


 
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Jerry
(Login glr59)
YF

nced from upper posts-nt :)

October 10 2017, 8:27 AM 

"Grasshopper" Student of the game.....

 
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Josh3rd
(Login josh3rd)
YF12

Right. My bad. NT

October 10 2017, 12:26 PM 


 
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Ed Krzynowek
(Login ekmeister1)
YF12

Well, I Honestly Don't Get It

October 10 2017, 5:47 PM 

In many, many years of using Maccari kits I can honestly say I never once had a buzz problem to the best of my memory. I'm not saying you didn't see or hear or feel what you said you did. I'm just saying it never happened to me once. Go figure. I hope he doesn't hear of this and start making his guides even tighter! Like I just said, they're already plenty tight enough in my experience, and making them tighter could unnecessarily cause a loss in velocity and an increase in break-in time.

Safe and Happy Shooting!

Ed Krzynowek, The Airgun Tune-Meister


"We can rebuild the squirrel. Make him stronger, faster...We have the technology"---Skyler M.


    
This message has been edited by ekmeister1 on Oct 11, 2017 10:44 AM


 
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