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scope mounting problem

November 7 2017 at 10:40 PM
chet  (Login chetcc)
YF12

i installed a new scope on my sons springer, i used high rings, he would rather medium height, but the problem i have is at 15yds i am still 1 inch high with the elevation turned all the way down clockwise maxed out, are there any tricks that i am not aware of before to get on target without having the elevation maxed out before i have to invest in a adjustable mount, would going to med height rings help at all.


chet

 
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Quinton L
(Login Domer_Pyle)
YF

Sounds like you need a shim on the front ring

November 8 2017, 1:12 AM 

It's shooting as if your scope is angled down a bit. Did you turn down the scope stop pin BEFORE you installed the rings? Depending on the scope rail that could cause the rear one to sit just a little higher

 
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chet
(Login chetcc)
YF12

did not turn

November 8 2017, 7:06 AM 

i did not turn the stop screw till after i mounted the rings, curious if i go to med height rings will this help at all


chet

 
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JW652
(Login JW652)
YC

Medium Rings

November 8 2017, 9:46 AM 

Yes! Medium rings should move the axis of the bore and axis of the scope closer together and reduce the need for vertical clicks. Also, the closer the bore is to the scope, the flatter (generally) the trajectory.

 
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Jason
(Login nervoustrigger)
YF12

Ring height, shims

November 8 2017, 10:12 AM 

Actually, the difference between medium and high rings is pretty insignificant when it comes to being able to zero the scope. For a 15 yard zero, it's somewhere in the ballpark of 1 - 2 MoA...so you're looking at 4 to 8 clicks on a typical 1/4MoA turret. Actually closer to the low end of that range if I'm remembering the typical saddle heights correctly.

To deal with the elevation misalignment, you have a few options. Shimming the base of the rings works fine if done in modest amounts. For example, shims cut from a soda can typically measure 0.005" thick. I don't like to use more than 3 layers, 4 tops. However if you are dealing with a springer, shims can be problematic because they make slippage much more likely. So for a springer, I prefer to either give the barrel a slight tweak or use a drooper mount.

 
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chet
(Login chetcc)
YF12

barrel bending

November 8 2017, 1:20 PM 


since i never done any barrel bending, what are some procedures to attack this. does the barrel need to be removed from the action, if i am on the right track, barrel needs to be bent for a lower impact. is a hydraulic press required.


chet

 
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Andy H.
(Login AndyH44)
BOI

There's a ton of info available...Google It. Here's 1 link...

November 8 2017, 3:09 PM 


 
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Jim in SWMO
(Login jmhenrichs)
YF

nced's barrel bending jig

November 8 2017, 4:11 PM 

Here's a pic of a simple but effective jig that another member here, nced (SpringerEd), made to bend barrels. In this pic the jig is positioned to bend a barrel in order to lower the point of impact. The main thing to remember about bending a barrel to raise or lower the POI is to keep the bend going straight up or down. You don't want to induce any sideways bend unless that's something that's actually needed.

[linked image]

Ed, if you see this I hope you don't mind me posting this pic of yours. I saved a copy of it before the Photobucket fiasco with the intentions of making one like it for myself. wink.gif

"You've come far, pilgrim."-------"Feels like far."
"Were it worth the trouble?"-----"Ah, what trouble?"

 
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David Enoch
(Login DavidEnoch)
YF

I thought you were going to post a picture of the tree with the fork in it

November 8 2017, 6:04 PM 

I think it was Ed that used to post a picture of a tree with the fotk in it they used to bend barrels. I thought you were going to show that.

David Enoch

 
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Josh3rd
(Login josh3rd)
YF12

I did too lol nt

November 8 2017, 6:18 PM 


 
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Jim in SWMO
(Login jmhenrichs)
YF

LOL!!

November 8 2017, 6:40 PM 

Yeah, it was Ed that used to post that pic. Maybe he'll see this thread and post it again.

"You've come far, pilgrim."-------"Feels like far."
"Were it worth the trouble?"-----"Ah, what trouble?"

 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

Here is my "nced tweaking tree" pic..........

November 10 2017, 8:40 AM 

AIzSnwOh.jpg
6vaTNRUh.jpg

 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

I prefer using my "bending tool" because it only puts pressure.........

November 10 2017, 9:03 AM 

on the barrel itself instead of the joint where the barrel is pressed or screwed into the barrel pivot block. The "barrel bending tree" also puts pressure on the stock to action connections.

When "barrel bending by tree" it's easy to add snoop and windage, however it won't work to add droop if the barrel is bent too far when adding snoop.

Also, if "barrel bending by tree" be sure to promptly wipe down the barrel with RemOil (or whatever) to remove tannins from the tree bark (especially if the tree is oak) or you may have surface rust on the barrel. LOL.....guess how I learned that! wink.gif


    
This message has been edited by SpringerEd on Nov 10, 2017 9:04 AM


 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

No problem! All my posted pics are free for the taking.

November 10 2017, 8:37 AM 

I also got caught up in the PhotoBucket fiasco so some pics had to be restored from back-up discs or from doing a search on the BING search engine with something like "nced HW95 spring guide" (whatever). Surprisingly I've been able to recover some lost pics with a BING search.

 
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Jim in SWMO
(Login jmhenrichs)
YF

Thanks Ed.

November 10 2017, 6:37 PM 

I was hoping you wouldn't mind me posting that pic. I'm still planning on making one like that for myself. And I agree with you about using a forked tree to "adjust" a barrel. It works in a pinch but it always made me nervous. Like you said above, it puts pressure on that smaller diameter section of the barrel where it enters the block. Your barrel jig looks like a much better solution. And it's no doubt much more precise than a tree fork, lol.

BTW, I posted that pic from my free PB account. Don't know what's going on with PB but so far I seem to have slipped thru the cracks, lol. But I'm sure the hammer will come down on my account eventually and all my forum pics will disappear. I've already downloaded all my albums from PB so they can do whatever they want. I'll just go somewhere else for a pic host, lol.

"You've come far, pilgrim."-------"Feels like far."
"Were it worth the trouble?"-----"Ah, what trouble?"

 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

A couple comments about my "barrel tweaker".

November 10 2017, 10:05 PM 

I used an eye bolt made from 5/8" rod.........
kP9eWigh.jpg
1. I originally used an eye bolt made from 1/2" rod but the loop tended to open up with pressure, plus the eye wouldn't slip over my muzzle break.

2. The eye bolt in the pic of the "tweaker" has a Delrin "shoe" that's slipped inside the loop around the barrel before tightening the screw....
rfaWeVch.jpg
The purpose of this "shoe" is to spread the bending load so the barrel doesn't get a "kink" at the bend point and to prevent "scuffing up" the barrel finish. With the "tweaker" it's easy to position the loop so that an "excess bend" can be reduced since the bending point is always at the same point. I do have a couple "positioning holes" but so far I've always used the "mid point hole".

3. The "wood" is made from construction grade generic 2x4s.

 
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Jim in SWMO
(Login jmhenrichs)
YF

Thanks for the details.

November 10 2017, 10:57 PM 

I was wondering about that Delrin "shoe" in the eye bolt. I figured it was mainly to help protect the barrel but didn't think about it also spreading out the load when applying pressure on the barrel. I don't have a lathe to make anything like that, though. But I was thinking that maybe a piece of PVC pipe might hold up fairly well in place of the Delrin.

Good idea on the multiple holes for the eye bolt, too. With the length of the jig it would kind of limit where it could be positioned on the barrel so having multiple locations for the eye bolt in the jig would definitely be a plus.

Thanks again, Ed. Much appreciate this info.

"You've come far, pilgrim."-------"Feels like far."
"Were it worth the trouble?"-----"Ah, what trouble?"

 
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Andy H.
(Login AndyH44)
BOI

Changing the height of scope does not flatten trajectory!

November 8 2017, 11:20 AM 

No way can a scope alter what the pellet does.

 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

Agreed, however the height of the scope above the bore...........

November 10 2017, 9:30 AM 

DOES change where the near zero, midrange height, and the far zero happens. A scope set low favors near distances and a scope set high favors far distances to the detriment of the closer shots.

While I haven't found ChairGun output to be close enough to my actual trajectory from my HW95, it's still close enough to play with scope height vs the near/far zero. It's also rather easy to prove simply by shooting with a scope set in medium height rings vs a scope mounted in 30mm high height rings.

One of the issues I have using holdover aiming for hunter class field target matches with a 30mm tube scope set in high mounts is that the pellet rise to my 30 yard zero is very rapid from the muzzle to the line of sight which makes the "short range distance guesstimation" more critical than when the scope is mounted lower to the receiver.

Bottom line....while scope mounting has nothing to do with pellet trajectory, it does affect the "near zero/far zero" distance.


    
This message has been edited by SpringerEd on Nov 10, 2017 9:31 AM


 
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Scott Blair
(Login scottblair1218)
YF12

Finally, someone else who understands why

November 12 2017, 7:30 AM 

You should always mount your scope as low as possible for our typical Airguns distances. So many people on this forum think that scope height has no effect on trajectory. One guy even stated to mount your scope as hi as possible!! We're talking AG distances here after all. Thanks for that great explanation.

 
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