Precision at longer distances???November 11 2017 at 12:24 PM
|bReTt (Login CBPeter)|
I am wondering if real precision shooting can be done at longer distances (40 yards +) with sights other than a scope. I’m talking about that .5” consist group or hitting a dime sized dot at that distance and doing it with confidence, not just chance. All of this is assuming that the rifle and shooter are capable of course.
I can see clearly where I am aiming on a small target with a 20x scope and fine reticle at 50 yards but is that possible with anything other then a scope?
Aperature sights? Iron sights? something else?
Would it be possible if the actual aim point was larger at those distances so it could be visible and repeatable?
I’m new to thinking about this... maybe some of you are already doing this with good success. Any tips, tricks or suggestions are appreciated.
Many thanks airgunners!
|This message has been edited by CBPeter on Nov 11, 2017 2:19 PM|
As for me,
|November 11 2017, 12:31 PM |
I can't even see a dime size dot at 40 yards, let alone hit it. I have to have glass.
Re: Precision at longer distances???
|November 11 2017, 12:48 PM |
Its HIGHLY unlikely that anyone will shoot 1/2" groups(offhand or bench) at 40yds. with ANY type of open sights. Not saying it can't be done but the odds of doing it ARE NOT good to say the least.
Right, can't hit what you can't see...
|November 11 2017, 1:37 PM |
But if you want to stack the deck a bit, make a huge circle on a sheet of paper and use an aperture sight. You might surprise yourself. We are pretty good at judging two concentric circles.
That’s what I was thinking Jason.
|November 11 2017, 2:19 PM |
I just started using the aperature sights on an FWB 300. I didn’t realize, until I started shooting the 10m target at 10m, that they aren’t sighting on the bullseye, it’s the whole target! Just like you said, judging concentric circles... I learn something new everyday, even if it takes me more then once. Ha ha ha!
Try this printable target
|November 11 2017, 3:39 PM |
|Bob in WV|
A good aperture sight will help a lot.
|November 11 2017, 4:01 PM |
Try a circle that will nearly fill your sight picture at the given range. You may find you can do very well. The gun will shoot just as accurately, no matter what sight is on it. The shooter just has to.
Bob in WV
Never get in a hurry, it only slows you down.
Target needs to be larger but small groups possible
|November 11 2017, 5:10 PM |
Aperture sights are capable of producing 1 moa groups, but the target needs to be larger. I have a rule of thumb-- magnification X target size in moa= 10-12 is comfortable. So if you use apertures, use a target about 4" at 40 yards.
The ten ring ring in ten meter target shooting is 0.5mm. Top competitors have then at most a 5mm c-t-c 60 shot groups at 10m, i.e less than 2 moa standing!
|November 11 2017, 6:48 PM |
Yes precision shooting can be done at longer distances. When shooting CMP service rifle matches the black part of the target is always the same width as the front sight of an M1 or 1903 Springfield. This is about 6 inches at 100 yards, 12 inches at 200 and so on. Alowing you to easily square up the sight with the target. There are a lot of shooters who can do 2 moa groups from service rifles like that prone or sitting with a sling.
Jason W Garvin
Re: Precision at longer distances???
|November 11 2017, 8:04 PM |
I can shoot my HW 85 ar 50 yds with the narrow front post insert, and swing the 1.5" spinner until I am bored. But with scopes, I usually shoot 6-9 power and not much more. I find I can shoot just as accurately. Also benefit from a better picture in the scope, and more forgiving eye relief and the eye box. My brother shoots aperture sights on a CZ 452 trainer, and I found it real easy to group well. But the rimfire flies fast and flat, with less locktime.
Absolutely can be done
|November 11 2017, 9:07 PM |
I have shot many sub1” groups at 100 yds with centerfire rifles, and non telescope sight As stated the sights and targets have to be well paired. I like square posts in aperature sights and black squares on white paper for the target. Better if the target matches the sight width at the intended range. I’ve also headshot many rabbits out to 170 yds with a 218 bee that has peeps and a good pair of binoculars
Problem with air rifles is trajectory
|November 11 2017, 9:27 PM |
And the front sight covering the target. On my HW 35 e I turn the front post upside down so the post dangles from the top of the aperature. I works great and I can hold over and hit out to 70 yds with that rifle and see the target and gauge holdover easy.
Front and rear apertures can shoot very small groups
|November 12 2017, 7:01 PM |
If you are willing to get used to using them.
Of course you will not shoot a dime sized dot well at 50 yards with them.
But if that dime sized dot is in the center of a 3.89 diameter black target,
(A23/3 A23/5 A23/6 smallbore targets. x-ring is 0.390 dia, as apposed to a 0.705 dia dime )
it is very possible for you to hammer the center out of it.
Folks here say "you can't hit what you can't see" I would bet that most of those who say it
never really invested much time in using front and rear apertures, or had the need to.
You cant see that 0.040 ten dot in the center of a 10 meter air rifle target standing at
10 meters away, but if you do your part, you can sure destroy it using front and rear apertures.
You can't see that 10.00 inch x-ring in the center of a 1000 yard rifle target while
laying prone looking through those front and rear apertures. But, again if you do your part
you can sure as hell hit it.
Front and rear apertures excel at shooting known distances at conventional targets.
This is why you won't see them at the local field target matches, or any of them for that matter.
In our weekly 50ft. 3P smallbore matches, I shot a scope for a full season before I could get my hands
on a good set of apertures. When I made the switch, my scores did drop the first couple of weeks.
Shooting scope, I never was able to break 292 of 300 possible.
Once I got used to the apertures, I was able to shoot a personal best of 296 three times.
In NRA highpower, nearly all "match class" rifles use them. The "service rifle class" uses a
rear aperture with a front post. Those shooters usually shoot "pumpkin on a post" hold.
Which is basically a six o'clock hold on the black.
I have personally competed from 10 meters to 1000 yards with them, I enjoy using them.
But, I am the type who would rather shoot standing than from a bench any day.
Brushy Bill has written the truth about aperture sights
|November 13 2017, 7:48 PM |
They can reverse the effects of ageing eyes when used "correctly"
My favorite shooting is the NRA small bore 50 foot target shot at 50 YARDS!
I don't see well close up, But I can see the front sight aperture ring encircle the target black quite well.
Though this shooting is strictly for my own pleasure, my "scores" are not too bad at all. I have no problem keeping five shots "in the black" for most (not all) the targets on a page.
Note, those target rings are 1.5 inches diameter. Without the "peep" sight , I can not see those targets at 50 yards. With the aperture, They are in good focus through the front aperture. I've used a blade front insert as well, and the shooting is about the same. There is more light available with the post over the ring front inserts. I will try the glass insert with an "air hole" aperture some time soon. I just have not got around to making one, and the sight I have is not supported by those who produce the glass front sight.
Iron Sights make a shooter out of plinkers
|November 13 2017, 9:59 PM |
Brushy Bill 👍 X 2
Understand that I have quite a few scopes some are relatively inexpensive and some cost 2 to 8 times the cost of the average Airguns discussed on the Yellow. I also have a number of Iron Sights on my Service Rifles,hunting rifles and airguns which cost more than most of the scopes discussed on the Yellow. Oh! I'm going to be 69 in about a month an a half. When I go to the range I do push-ups/burpies to get my heart going like it would while stalking on my Backcountry skis, snowshoes or competition skinny skis shooting the FIVE BIATHLON falling plates at 50M (reduced diameter for prone.) I shoot prone or standing with a proper sling (many of you would do well to own three or more types and get away from the BENCH more often 😱) and shoot with shooting gloves to isolate my pulse from my weapon.
I believe you can all be more fit, even only by walking more, and you will enjoy your shooting more. My humble understanding and RESPECT for those of you who are Wounded Warriors or have some non Service related disability; the rest of you need to get OFF your BUTTS more often and move and learn/wean yourselves away from the BENCH.
TO YOUR HEALTH and Happiness!