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FWB 124 disassembled - Lube recommendations?

January 7 2018 at 5:57 PM
6.5BR  (Login 6.5BR)
YF

Been long overdue, tore it down, old seal crumbled up, had to clean all out.

Does the new seal just press fit in?

FYI, ended up having a helper hold the compression chamber down while backing off the bolt that holds it all together, while I had an old t-shirt draped over it, using a handle of a rubber mallet, using the middle of the handle while I straddled over it with two hands forming a T across the top of the back of the action, not touching the safety. When it came loose it was a bit of a surprise but all went well and nothing got lost, safety all good. I will reverse the order with my helper carefully lining up the threads to not have a problem cross-threading.

What are you guys using for lubes, and which lube where? I have some old Beeman Chamber oil and Pena-dry moly powder.

The spring still has the "Spring Tar" from when a buddy tore it down years back, it was operating well - very smooth, accurate and consistent when the old seal failed.

Any recs on re-assembly and lube prior to putting it all back appreciated.


    
This message has been edited by 6.5BR on Jan 7, 2018 6:52 PM


 
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Stepar
(Login stepar)
YC

Hard to go wrong w/ Krytox

January 7 2018, 7:43 PM 

Won't detonate, anti-corrosive, compatible w/ synthetics, doesn't separate, retains properties a long, loooong time. Costs more than pretty much anything else, too.

 
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Stepar
(Login stepar)
YC

Hard to go wrong w/ Krytox

January 7 2018, 7:43 PM 

Won't detonate, anti-corrosive, compatible w/ synthetics, doesn't separate, retains properties a long, loooong time. Costs more than pretty much anything else, too.

 
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scottro
(Login scottgg)
YF

Which Krytox?

January 8 2018, 8:37 AM 

Looks like there are a variety of Krytox lubes. I wouldn't mind trying some, but at $20+ per tube, I don't want to trial and error it.

In general, when I lube tune a springer, I'm still using a very light coat/wipe down with Honda 60% Moly paste on the piston, seal, and front half of the spring, and a light coating of JM tar on the back 1/3 of the spring. If the design of the gun allows, I generally use two moly coated washers inside the piston before the spring. (The idea being that they act as a thrust bearing.)

I haven't kept up w/ the newest methods, though.


 
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Stepar
(Login stepar)
YC

Almost any of the greases

January 8 2018, 5:21 PM 

This is high test stuff we use in a low-test situation (short-travel piston, a few thousand cycles). I understand they're all grade 2, unless special ordered.I happen to have picked up an 8 ounce tub of 225 on Ebay for cheap.

Here are some grease descriptions:

The Krytox™ GPL 21X series contains molybdenum disulfide for extreme pressure (EP) conditions and should be used for slow speed or extremely heavily loaded applications.
The Krytox™ GPL 22X series contains sodium nitrite corrosion/anti-wear inhibitor; it also improves load-carrying performance and is ideal for corrosive environments. Typical
applications are automotive bearings, sealed pump bearings, electric motor bearings and general-purpose bearings.
The Krytox™ GPL 29X greases have extreme pressure (EP) and anticorrosion additives and have been formulated for applications that need both high load-carrying capacity and
anticorrosion protection.

Google is yer buddy.

 
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Stepar
(Login stepar)
YC

Almost any of the greases

January 8 2018, 5:21 PM 

This is high test stuff we use in a low-test situation (short-travel piston, a few thousand cycles). I understand they're all grade 2, unless special ordered.I happen to have picked up an 8 ounce tub of 225 on Ebay for cheap.

Here are some grease descriptions:

The Krytox™ GPL 21X series contains molybdenum disulfide for extreme pressure (EP) conditions and should be used for slow speed or extremely heavily loaded applications.
The Krytox™ GPL 22X series contains sodium nitrite corrosion/anti-wear inhibitor; it also improves load-carrying performance and is ideal for corrosive environments. Typical
applications are automotive bearings, sealed pump bearings, electric motor bearings and general-purpose bearings.
The Krytox™ GPL 29X greases have extreme pressure (EP) and anticorrosion additives and have been formulated for applications that need both high load-carrying capacity and
anticorrosion protection.

Google is yer buddy.

 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

I've used Dupont Krytox GPL205, GPL226, Ultimox 226 and a few other ..........

January 9 2018, 12:10 AM 

variants and settled on "Plain Jane" Dupont GPL205 as my "go-to" non-dieseling springer grease and GPL105 or GPL106 oil....
EJSxLJ4l.jpg

 
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Martin
(Login 10mshooter)
YF12

Re: Which Krytox?

January 11 2018, 8:33 PM 

This stuff’s really great and a little goes a looong way:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MWLDALQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_q9awAbWW6ZVS4

 
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Patrick
(Login pat601)
YF12

All righty then...

January 7 2018, 7:44 PM 

You may wanna look at some take down/ reassembly websites....the zip tie trick on the safety is a grief saver...

You seem new to this sorta thing....Remember; in spring powered airguns ALL lubricants will migrate...the thinner the lube the quicker/ easier the migration...most mineral oil based/ petroleum based lubricants become flammable under quick high compression conditions the very exact condition created by the fast moving piston in your FWB124...called dieseling you want to avoid this....
That is best done by avoiding the use of any oil as a lube....my opinion is to use a molybdenum paste like Jim Maccari sells only and lightly on the piston seal and raised area of the rear of the piston and very light barely perceptible wipe on the spring...

Other guys may tell you some tar or Euro-grease on the spring...I'm tuning a124 myself and I'm using the Maccari "twist on" spring that he sells and a very light moly paste only lube...I'm also putting in the "old style buttons" that Jim sells at the rear of the piston...

The tight fitting spring and buttons should keep the buzz/twang minimal the pellet speed up and the shot to shot consistency with no dieseling and minimal warm up...

My experience has lead me to use less and less lube on springers....moly paste burnished in is a long lasting minimal lube.
Krytox lubes are another step up, expensive and best used after some experience gained..

 
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6.5BR
(Login 6.5BR)
YF

Thanks

January 7 2018, 9:49 PM 

I've been shooting Springers since having a BSA Meteor, back in the 80s....but know lube technology and the knowledge learned has come a long ways so wanted to get feedback. Always felt less is more....no doubt I want to avoid dieseling and detonation as best possible without running it completely dry.

Thanks guys, others welcome to add their experience.

 
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Scott Blair
(Login scottblair1218)
YF12

I always use Macarri lubes

January 8 2018, 2:09 PM 

Molly paste on outside of seal, and yes it just pushes on. I dunk the seal in a hot glass of water for 5 minutes, makes it press on much easier. Molly rear of piston, inside of piston spring guide, and piston sear latch. Also on the cocking arm foot. Then black tar on outside of spring, just a little spider web amount. Like others mentioned, use a tye rap around the safety slider to hold it in place for both assembly and disassembly. Most importantly, make yourself a spring compressor. Many shown on the web. Your helper will have a hard time holding it back together and lining up the threads for the bolt. Those fine threads cross thread very easily, and once you've done that you're screwed.

Have fun and be safe.

 
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scottro
(Login scottgg)
YF

Irwin quick grip bar clamps make life easier for spring compression

January 8 2018, 2:49 PM 

Even if you have a helper, one of these makes life easier/safer. You might only need the 24" version.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-QUICK-GRIP-36-in-Clamp/1000119651

 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

I bought a Groz sash clamp for compressing the springs on my guns.

January 9 2018, 12:50 AM 

xWypFzNl.png
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1s3eF8bl.jpg

Very strong steel construction with a long screw for compressing springs with a lot of preload.

 
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scottro
(Login scottgg)
YF

Never knew such a device existed... but it looks perfect.

January 9 2018, 3:37 PM 

I've tried different setups and even have a dedicated spring compressor from Rich in MI, but I always go back to the Irwin quick grip clamp. The quick grip clamp can slip when working on magnum-level springs though. The clamp you've got looks about perfect.

 
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Jim in SWMO
(Login jmhenrichs)
YF

Thanks for posting about that, Ed.

January 9 2018, 5:31 PM 

I'm with Scottro, I didn't know about that style of bar clamp. I like it. Especially the fact that it has a nice long screw. So many of the regular bar clamps have short screws. This looks like the perfect "over-the-counter" spring compressor. The compressor I'm using now is a simple homemade affair of the chopped up C-clamp on a wood plank variety, lol. It serves the purpose and works OK, but I like this clamp/compressor. So thanks again for posting about it.

"You've come far, pilgrim."-------"Feels like far."
"Were it worth the trouble?"-----"Ah, what trouble?"

 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

Here >>ModDeleted per RULE#5.<< NFT

January 9 2018, 11:29 PM 



    
This message has been edited by ClassMod on Jan 10, 2018 8:09 AM


 
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scottro
(Login scottgg)
YF

Looks like it's $5 less on Amazon.

January 10 2018, 5:58 AM 

And again, thanks. I'd never seen that clamp before.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DAPPVFA/ref=biss_dp_t_asn

 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

Good find with the free shipping! nt

January 10 2018, 11:05 AM 


 
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scottro
(Login scottgg)
YF

Double post-- delete nt

January 10 2018, 5:58 AM 

nt


    
This message has been edited by scottgg on Jan 10, 2018 5:59 AM


 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

Ya gotta be kiddin, I ain't sellin' nothin"!!!

January 10 2018, 11:04 AM 

The post was simply to show what I used for a spring compressor and it ain't for sale!

The link posted was where the same BRAND of sash clamp as mine could be bought!

Rule #5 wasn't violated in any way!
RULE 5: Private "For sale" items go on the classifieds. No exceptions. No links to gunbroker or other auction sites.

By the way moderator, I didn't make that "Rule 5 violation", how did my "nced" screen name get attached to it??



    
This message has been edited by SpringerEd on Jan 10, 2018 11:08 AM


 
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