I have order additional reports about my J 1 c 8 results. If they give any interesting information I will pass it along. The two matches I received notice "being a match" have not been helpful.
This results, however, has settle any thought this female line contained African-American or Native American.
The following surnames I will be trying to tract through legal & public records: starting with my grandmother:
1. Olive Odillion KING born 29 Oct 1906 (born on mother's birth date) Yuma, Carroll Co. TN died 22 Jun 1982 Silver Spring, Montgomery Co. MD m. Roy Dennis Hopgood, she had one sister who could have passed along the same Mitochondrial markers. She was the daughter of:
2. Dessie Green BOLEN b. 29 Oct 1885 Bowling Green, Warren Co. KY, died 4 Nov 1967 Alton, Madison Co. KY married Joseph Hulon King, she had sisters who could have passed along the same D.N.A. markers. She was the daughter of:
I have a picture (me, my mother, O.O. King & D.G. Bolen) of the four generations of this direct line. I have personal knowledge of all the women in this direct line and offical records.
3. Amanda E. MELTON b. 25 Aug 1853 Henderson Co. TN, d. 30 Aug 1888 Yuma, Carroll Co. TN m. Sion Monroe Bolen, she was the only daughter of:
I have a picture of Amanda E. with my gr-grandmother as an infant.
4. Frances L. MORRIS b. 1824 Henderson Co. VA, d. 13 Aug 1878 Henderson Co. TN married Cornelius Melton, she had a sister and they were the daughter of Elizabeth
5. Elizabeth BROWN b. 1780 in Orange Co. NC, d. after 1872 Henderson Co. VA, married Isaac Morris. For the 1870 Henderson Co. TN she was living with her daughter Frances L. (Morris) Melton and her granddaughter Amanda E. Melton. So my line is set for seven generations.
The records I have order and studied for Henderson Co. TN, I can't find a legal document naming the parents of said Elizabeth (Brown) Morris. If the records exist then I will have to find them in other counties in TN or in Orange Co. NC.
I am still looking for good documentation as to the children of Isaac Morris & said Elizabeth Brown.
I am aware others have posted information about my line on the "net" and a good amount of the information they do not give their sources.
Since the court house of Henderson Co. TN has in the past burned down, all the early records for the people living in the area were lost. Like marriage records, birth or death records, land deeds and will etc.... So "we" have to use whatever we can find.
Some of the names of Elizabeth's children are based on Federal Census or Bible Records which have been collected by researchers in the past, some could be based on oral conversation.
Children of Isaac & Elizabeth (Brown) Morris:
1. Mahala Morris b. c1800 NC, she was living with Elizabeth Morrice (sic) for the 1830, not listed for 1840 census, either married or died without issue. She was included on the listing of children supplied by Delores Holladay.
2. Henry Morris b. 18 May 1805 NC, m-1 28 Jan 1830 Henderson Co. TN China G. Foyster, m-2 29 Dec 1841 in Henderson Co. to Piety Cazort, d. 3 Oct 1851 Henderson Co. TN, buried in Morris Family Cemetery in Henderson Co. TN. I have a picture of his grave marker, bible records dealing with his families found in the works of Jonathan K.T. Smith. Said Delores Holladay was a descendant of this couple. If she had personal knowledge about parentage & siblings of Henry I do not know. Hope that is the case.
He had a son named Felix and a daughter named Amanda, so did Frances L. (Morris) Melton.
3. Zenus Morris b. 1814 NC, m-1...........? m-2 c1838 Dorothy Ann Austin, d. c1859 Henderson Co. TN. I believe I have contacted in the past by researcher of his line. For the latter census I believe one of his daughters living with Benson family. I do not know if this is the only reason believe a relationship with #4 James G. Morris. There is a place for male his age group 1830 census Elizabeth Morrice (sic)
4. James G. Morris b. 1817 NC m. c1842 Mahala Benson, d. c1869 Henderson Co. TN. Delores Holladay had him on her list as son of Elizabeth as James Morris. D.N.A test has been done.
5. Wm. Pitts Morris b. 12 Jan 1817 Sumner Co. TN, m. 2 Jul 1838 Perry Co. TN to Elvira Jane Johnson, d. 22 Apr 1893 Camden Cemetery in Benton Co. TN. His name on the list of Delores Holladay. You will find a lot information about him in the works of Jonathan K.T. Smith. In connection with him is only one piece of information which named his parents as Isaac Morris & Elizabeth Brown as coming into TN for Orange Co. NC. I have not been able to find any record that he directly named any of his siblings. In the works of Jonathan K.T. Smith stated that he personal talked to the family members of said Wm. P. Morris. His works contains a picture of said Wm. P. Morris & his house.
6. George W. Morris b. 1821 TN, m. L.J. Morgan, died by 1870 Henderson Co. TN. He is connected to Elizabeth and his sister Frances L. (Morris) Melton by census information. Delores Holladay did not include him on her listing of children.
7. Frances L. Morris b. 1824 Henderson Co. TN, m. Cornelius Melton, d. 13 Aug 1878 Henderson Co. TN. Connected to Elizabeth (Brown) Morris by 1830,1840,1850, 1860 & 1870 census. Delores Holladay did not include her on her listing of children. This is my blood line, D.N.A. done.
Since Reed Morris has done his D.N.A test any Morris male has been handed a "gold opportunity" , just submit your own sample to see if you match.
If you descend from said Mahala Morris then you could help document the above set of children.
I have the names of other Morrice living in 1830 Henderson Co. TN, if you know if related to Isaac & Elizabeth (Brown) Morris, I would love to know your sources.
Looking over some of my notes, I think I am now missing the name of Elizabeth's eldest daughter. Other researchers have her name as Mary, but no sources given. So I will continue to look for the name in other records.
1850 Henderson Co. TN: Cornelius Melton 28 NC, Frances L. (Morris) Melton 26, Melton, Wm. R. Melton 5, Felix Melton 1, Mary Morris 13 for the 1850.
She listed on various bible records for Henry Morris and his two wives:
Mary A.F.L. Morris b. 11 Feb 1837, m. Lundo Griggs, d. 16 Nov 1903. The census for Henderson Co. TN are rather hard to read. On line researcher has this Mary listed as sister of said Frances L. Morris. Obviously this is not the case, for Isaac Morris died 1826.
He also has incorrect information as to the children of Cornelius Melton & said Frances L. Morris. I have very good documentation as to the names of their children:
1. Wm. R. Melton
2. Felix W. Melton
3. AMANDA E. MELTON
4. Cornelius Francis Melton
Mildred Morris was the daughter of George W. Morris born after 1860 census. She born 1863. He also had a son, so could be possible to have Y D.N.A test done to link those Morris to the test submit by Reed Morris (decendant of James G. Morris).
The fact that daughers of Henry & George W. Morris lived with Frances L. (Morris) Melton gives another link to hold this group together as brothers to my line.
Of course, I will continue to seek out additional documentation.
I have just received from the FamilyTree DNA web master for Morris Family, a request to spend more monies to update my Morris Test Results.
The problem with this request I have already done that !!
I send a response to her and I plan to send e-mail to the Main Site of FamilyTreeDNA wanting to know if they have a section on their main site where we can look, study & obtain the test results of all their surnames tested.
If this not possible then they should clearly state on their main site, that we only have the information they "deem" we should have.
I naively thought all records would be available to me.
Found L.D.S. #306947 Orange Co. NC deed & minute books only date given 1817 for the above case. I do not think the Isaac Morris is my direct ancestor.
Jury finding Issac Morris guilty in "the bill of instrument" The record does not say what he was charged with "taken to the public whipping post 39 lashes on his bare back and cost of 100 pounds fee & cost".
This film is full of others in Orange Co. NC also whipped & fined for having "unlawful relations" resulting in children born "out of wedlock". I do not know if this is the case with Isaac Morris, or he did something else.
My Isaac Morris it is said was in TN in by this time, however the dates are not applied to each case file, just what was done each year.
There was a Isaac Morris who married in Orange Co. NC on 8th Jan 1812 to Nancy CHEEK. And I do not know if or how he is related to my group of Morris/Brown of Orange Co. NC.
Members of our McKay family married into the Cheek family, perhaps others know who this Isaac Morris was who was whipped.
With so much new information I am finding with Shipp & Snyder I have not found the time to post information in connection with my Morris & Brown families which I have found months ago.
I have not run Isaac Morris & Elizabeth Brown through Ancestory.com to see whats others have posted.
Information found in Ancestry.com computer bank about the couple Isaac Morris & Elizabeth Brown, just wrong and misleading. Researchers should just seek out your own material.
People seem to think they can post information and then are not responsible to give any kind of sources. The true of the matter is that they have no original records, for they are just clicking information into their trees from other computer files.
My Mitochondrial DNA line goes through Elizabeth Brown b. 1780 NC d. after 1871 Henderson Co. TN (wife of Isaac Morris), the known movements of her and her husband, in Orange Co. NC late as 1817, according to some of their children location of birth on census and family bible of Henry Morris of Henderson Co. VA.
I have copies of Isaac Morris buying & selling his land in Orange Co. NC before he and his family removed into TN.
I have one lead that her parents removed directly into Orange Co. NC from Loudoun Co. VA. Morris mostly likely removed into Orange Co. NC also directly from VA.
They removed to Sumner Co. TN by 1817 and their last two children George W. & Frances L. (my line) in Henderson Co. TN.
1830 said Elizabeth (Brown) Morris listed in Henderson Co. TN head of household
1840 Henderson Co. TN living with her son George W.
1850 Henderson Co. TN Elizabeth listed as head and son George W.
1860 Henderson Co. TN Elizabeth listed as head
1870 Henderson Co. TN Elizabeth living with her widow daughter Frances L. Melton
So from Orange Co. NC to Sumner to Dickson to Henderson Co. TN by 1830 where she died. She and Isaac Morris had starting their family in Orange Co. NC by 1805 and stayed in that location until about 1817 living in Sumner Co. TN, and she as widow in Henderson Co. TN 1830 census.
DIFFERENT BROWN FAMILY
"The known movements of Col James Brown married Jane, daughter of Patrick & Ann Denniston Gillespie in VA. They seem to have moved from Rowan Co. NC to Surry Co., then back to Guilford where James participated in the Battle of Guilford Courthouse in 1781. In 1787-88 he built a boat at the Long Island of the Holston River to take part of his famiy down and up the Tennessee River over to Nashville. En route, they were ambushed by Indians; father and two oldest sons killed, rest of the family taken into captivity. Eventually, the family members where rescused and settled in Davidson Co. TN." notes of Janet Tandy.
There are various articles on line about the above captivity & killing of this Brown Family.
In short, the family members of James Brown never lived in Orange Co. NC nor in Henderson Co. TN. He removed into TN well before Elizabeth Brown (wife of Isaac Morris) was still living in Orange Co. NC!!!.
Close to hundred people have mixed together two different Elizabeth Brown and well over 50 people have the parentage of my Elizabeth Brown assigned to the wrong set of parents.
They are not using primary sources to support their computer files now found in Ancestry.Com Trees.
Living next door to my Elizabeth Morrice (sic) 1830 Henderson Co. TN:
Alanson Morrice female 50-60, other in household: 2 males under 5, 1 male 10-15, 1 male 20-30, 1 female 20-30. I am wondering if a sister-in-law to said Elizabeth. I do not see a place for Zenus Morris, so I will keep him in Elizabeth's group of children.
George W. Morrice male 20-30, 1 female 20-30, 2 female under five. Said Elizabeth named her son George W. as well.
Hugh Morrice male 20-30, 1 male under 5, 2 females under 5, 1 female 20-30
Thomas Morrice 1 male 50-60, 2 males 10-15, 1 male 15-20,1 male 20-30, 2 females under 5, 2 females 5-10, 1 females 15-20,1 female 40-50. Old enough to be same generation as Isaac Morris.
Wm. Morrice 1 male 20-30, 1 female 30-40
In the future I will be looking for these Morrice also leaving Orange Co. NC for this part of TN.
Later census Henderson Co. TN shows a group of Morris being born in SC, so I do not think related to my group of Morrice/Morris
An article printed in "The Lexington Progress" or "The Times" in connection with Cornelius Francis Melton (known as "Hop"). He was the brother of my Amanda E. (Melton) Bolen.
The article has a picture of said C.F. Melton his wife Martha Jane Lovell and their two children.
The statement that is wrong names his mother as: "Their mother was Martha Morris Melton. Her parents Joseph & Nancy Morris are the same ones spoken of and featured in the book Westward to the Round Top. They are buried at Shiloh Cemetery"
This information was suppled by Roma Roberts. I have no idea what sources she had, but does not square with all known facts about Amanda E. Melton & her siblings and their mother Frances L. (Morris) Melton.
In year 2000 I became aware of some information placed in L.D.S. computer bank by Antoinette Pedersen she has the parentage of Charles Melton of early Charles City Co., VA back into early 1300's in England.
I send an e-mail to Nancy Pratt Melton (editor of Milton/Melton Pot) asking her who was said Pedersen and did she have real documentation, her response:
"Siwate de Meltona was create by a researcher who admitted she made-it-up !!!. I have put out warnings on GenForum and Rootweb List and people still pick it up and use in their genealogy! That piece of fiction is going to haunt the net forever !!! Can you get back to Pederson and let her known that it is pure fiction" signed Nancy Pratt Melton dated 16 Aug 2000
I did write Antoinette Pedersen she did not response. I can not begin to understand why people want to place this kind of material on the net.
If you are watching T.V. and the "Ancestry.Com" ad comes on talking about their services. Part of their claim you can clink on any one of thousands of names in their Ancestry Tree and "pop"--your ancestors will just appear "back before the Civil War."
Well part of their fine computer bank includes the work of the above A. Pedersen supplied into the mix by Wm. Simon of AK. Now either he did not see Nancy P. Melton note on the net or did not care. Let's hope he did not know. But he did not take any time at all to gather his own records on the family.
I have found a book by now late E. Frank Melton which claims to take the Melton family back 17 generations. I tried to order the book through L.D.S. library system & my public library system but it is not being send out. The book is for sale for $44 & $4 postage. I am afraid he has just pick up Pederson's "made up genealogy".
My grandmother King has the same Rust ancestry that some of our Rust/McKay cousin have back to Wm. Rust of early Westmoreland Co. VA.
The book by the late Elwood Rust has some incorrect information in it which I picked up. I thought I had a doubt line of Rust which I now know is not true.
Another researcher "straighten me out" which I am glad he did for Sarah Cox of early Westmoreland Co. VA has some interesting blood lines. Vincent Cox of early Westmoreland Co. VA came from Kempston, Bedforshire, England. Peter Presly & Elizabeth Thompson of early Northampton Co. VA. Thomas Lamkin of Kemptson, Bedford, England & his wife Eleanor........? died Westmoreland Co. VA. Jane Ashton of early Westmoreland Co. VA daughter of Charles Ashton & Margaret Hart. I believe her grandfather Abraham Field had his plantation on Pope Creek near the Washington Plantation.
All lived in early Westmoreland Co. VA which means I only have to read records in that one location for about six different families. I hope my Morris family lived in the same area, but I have not found the necessary records filed in Orange Co. NC.
I am looking into set up just one more D.N.A. fund to see if I can get my TN cousins interested in supply D.N.A. samples to Family Tree D.N.A.
Two of her family names Carrington & Cozart (spelled various ways) her ancestors: Sion Carrington (1788-1844) born in NC died Henderson Co. TN and wife Jemima Cozart (1794-1862).
Earlier family researchers have said Sion Carrington line goes back to the emigrate Dr. Paul Carrington of Barbados, his D.N.A. profile is included in the Carrington Study (just 10 people in the study). So we have been given a golden opportunity to see through D.N.A. if we are indeed from those Carrington.
The Family Tree D.N.A. project include no Cozart family study, so I hope Jemima will spark some interest among her distant cousins.
The project manager does not accept donations, so my Carrington cousins, if they wish to order test kits are on their own. I hope they do decide to order D.N.A. test.
5182 Fulton Street in Washington, DC, she married and three of her five children:
Roy D. Hopgood 53 KY head of household
Odillion Hopgood 33 TN his wife
Batry D. Hopgood 10 DC his daughter should be Patsy D.
Roy E. Hopgood 9 DC his son
Earl N. 9 months his son should be Earl H. (Henry)
DC for 1940 has been indexed check local library, on Ancestry must be a paying customer
Researchers can go to Carrington Website kit #246929 submitted by a distant Carrington cousin. I descend from Ephramin & he from Nathaniel Carrington, sons of John Carrington of Orange Co. NC.
I believe pictures of Nathaniel Carrington can be found on the net.
Hope other Carrington of TN will do the test.
Family Finder Testing which test our autosomal DNA, my sample is to be posted 13 Mar 2013.
I have had for years bits and pieces of information dealing with the Hampton Family. I was aware that there were two different Hampton Families living in early Frederick Co. VA--English Group & Scottish Group (mine line).
After I found my Haplogroup I started poking around the Family Tree D.N.A. Project groups to see if I could find my Y markers for my various families. D.N.A. results did settle the "Family Tales" in connection with my Ball & Bolen families. I looked at the Hampton D.N.A. results to see if the two groups had supplied samples. I placed a posting on Gen Forum Hampton to see if descendants of my TN cousins had taken the test.
A woman named Mary Ann........?(does not use last name) tiped me off about the false information about Andrew Hampton on the net. There were two different Andrew Hampton (one was in Battle of Kings Mountain died in Rutherford Co. NC 1805) & Col. Andrew Hampton of Granville Co. NC my line.
Part of my interest in the family of John Hampton of Scotland & NJ., is that the movements of his descendants followed the same path as Robert Mackay Sr. These two families had business dealings in VA. I do not see that there was a connection with the two families in Scotland.
So the line I will be tracing through early Monmouth Co. NJ (know my line), Cecil Co. MD (looking for the second Andrew Hampton of Rutherford Co. NC). Their records filed in Frederick Co. VA I have compiled in book form.
1. John Hampton (Dodson stated son of John) born c1640 lived in Elphinstone, East Lothian, Scotland, d. 1702 will on file, his D.N.A profile on file with Family Tree D.N.A. He had four different woman as mother of his children, my line from wife Martha BROWN. He, wife and five children came to colonies in the ship "Exchange". I have order many Quaker Records in the above location did find Hampton information, but no information found for Mackay. The fact that other Scots coming into NJ from Scotland their names have been recorded. Really firms up my OPINION that our Robert Mackay came down into NJ from another colony and most likely born in this county, most likely MA. I need early NJ record more to find information on all said John Hampton's children. Of course, at the time I viewed Scottish Quaker Records, I had not found the land deed filed in Middlesex Co. NJ dated 1705 that Robert Mackay at that time was not a Quaker.
2. Noah Hampton b.c1692 in Freehold, Monmouth Co. NJ, d. 1774 Hampshire Co. VA/WV I have a copy of his will, married to Sarah....... while in NJ, name of wife in his will Alse.........? need to look at later land deeds for this location to see if I can find estate papers of his widow. His will named only one son Andrew. The maiden name of said Sarah might be found buried in records in NJ, or might not. His brother John was the father of Isabell, George & Thomas, said George's daughter married into our Sowers family.
3. Andrew Hampton b. c1712 Freehold, Monmouth Co. NJ, d. after 1767 Jefferson Co. GA, married Sarah..........?, first record I have dealing with him found in Fairfax Land Suit 1734 or 1735 purchased land on Bullskin Marsh Run from Jost Hite, sold his land filed in later Frederick Co. VA land deeds, then named as Andrew Hampton of Brunwick Co. VA. Sold that land removed to Granville Co. NC where numerous records can be found. He served as Col. in local militia 60 men in his group, listing found in Granville History three Bolling serviced with him. As I am told by others, the problem that now exist is that were is no direct record naming my Zachariah Hampton as son of said Andrew. However there exist records connected the known sons of said Andrew handling the affairs of said Zachariah's sons: John & Nolan(my line). I will have to look in Orange Co. NC & Granville Co. NC for more records. Found Family Tree Maker's Genealogy Site by Vance Peterson has mixed together the land deeds of "my Andrew Hampton" as being those of Andrew Hampton who died in Rutherford Co. NC. Also various researchers have posted incorrect information about each man's children. Some of the uncounted for Hampton men turning up in NC could have been from another branch of John Hampton's sons, but instead people have tried to connect them with Andrew Hampton of Rutherford Co. NC.
4. Zachariah Hampton b. c1748 Orange Co. VA, d. 8 Sep 1781 Battle of Eutawville, SC m. Mary Knowland, we have from wills on her side of the family name of two sons: John & Nolan.
5. Nolan Hampton b. 1770 Orange Co. VA, 1849 Carroll Co. TN m. 30 Mar 1793 in Orange Co. NC to Winifred Cozart.
Above are the areas I will be working and I hope to learn more about the Hampton & Mackay families. It is not my goal to chase hundreds of Hampton around the US, I have a listing of 115 descendants of John Hampton of Scotland and those will be the only names I will be pulling information.
Trying to figure out if some of the untraced Hampton living in areas of NC are members of the family of John Hampton of Scotland & NJ. His sons:
1. John Hampton died in Frederick Co. VA had sons George & Thomas
2. David Hampton died in NJ. had sons: George & David, both married in Cecil Co. MD, need to find if and when they moved south. One family history stated that said David removed to NC.
3. Andrew Hampton died in Cecil Co. MD 1725 need evidence of issue.
4. Jonathan Hampton died in NJ. at the time of his death stated he had underage children, need their names
5. Noah Hampton died in Hampshire Co. VA/WV had one son Andrew
6. Joseph Hampton died in Wrighttown, PA, had two sons that survived him: John & Benj., it would appear they remained in PA area.
I think I have film for Monmouth Co. NJ & Cecil Co. MD already at L.D.S. center, just a matter of finding the time to read them.
In Cecil Co. MD I am still looking for the maiden name of Margaret who married our Robert Mackay Sr.
L.D.S. 0013879 has Guardinship Bonds 1674-1797 one entry I made back 9/12/06 bond posted for the benefit of
Andrew Hampton 4 May 1725 bond posted by Gideon Pearce, Henry Henderson & Richard Whitton.
Who was this Andrew Hampton living in Cecil Co. MD underage as of 1725? The court is appointing the three men to handle his estate until he reaches legal age.
I am aware that present day Hampton researcher, will say Andrew Hampton Sr. of NJ/Cecil Co. MD had no issue. They, however, it would appear have not read records in Cecil Co. MD. They just pass around the same information quoting each other as a SOURCE.
If this is the case that Andrew Sr. had no issue--who could this Andrew Hampton underage in 1725 be other than the son of Andrew Sr.
In the past I have viewed land deeds of Cecil Co. MD and David Hampton Jr. seemed to buy & sell land. I have ordered Book 8 to see in 1758 he sold his lands in Cecil Co. MD and I want to see if the records give the location where he removed. I suspect he & his son? will turn up in NC, either in Anson Co. NC or Granville Co. NC.
George the other son had no land deeds. Found in Monmouth Co. NJ land deed Book H, p. 61 16 Dec 1831 he is selling his lands devised to him by his father's David Hampton Sr. will. He is listed as being a Cordwainer living in Cecil Co. MD. His marriage on 8 Nov 1733 to Mary Hooten filed with early Anglican Church Records of Cecil Co. MD. I have ordered additional films which said to contain, birth, marriage & deaths for this particular church.
If these records contain the names of any of their children, particularity sons, might explain some of the Hampton living down in NC that researchers in the past have assigned to Andrew Hampton of Granville Co. NC.
L.D.S. 13879 film dealing with guardianship bonds one entry:
Andrew Hampton 4 May 1725 bondman Gideon Pearce, Henry Henderson & Richard Whitton.
In the past I was told by other researchers that Andrew Hampton Sr. who died in 1725 in Cecil Co. MD had a son named Andrew Jr. The above legal document would appear to support the original postion he had a son. Present researchers want to maintain since his widow refused settlement of his estate, some how that means they had no issue.
It might be, I do hope, said Andrew & his wife Susannah were also members of Anglican Church of Cecil Co. MD and those records it would appear are in existence. I do not see "our" Hampton at his location or this time period remained Quakers.
I believe the records will show in the future that this orphan Andrew Hampton was the same man who removed down to Anson Co. NC then over to Rutherford Co. NC.
I have also found the occupation of Noah Hampton when he lived in Monmouth Co. NJ give as Cordwainer. This could be why I can't find his name on land deed in Cecil Co. MD and then he removed down to VA had the funds to become a land owner.
Sometime the records exist for town tax list which will show a person being taxed on a lot with a shop.
Commonwealth of VA Reel 1 Orange Co. VA Land Deeds Book 2, 129-130 second deed 130-131, both filed by George Robinson sold land to Richard Bealton in Orange Co. VA dated 9 Oct 1737, three men witness the deed: Jonathan Seaman, Noah Hampton & M. Morgan, said Noah Hampton took an oath as witness to said two deeds. So as of 1737 I know that he was no longer a Quaker.
I have other films coming for early Orange Co. VA which have not arrived. Perhaps additional information with surface about my ancestor Noah Hampton.
L.D.S. 928122 is a collection of abtractions of land deeds in NC for surname Hampton. One entry
"18/679 John Hampton gets from Ephraim Hampton, his uncle, 29 acres on Muddy Creek, north of the Yadkin River for the good will and natural affection. I have for him, proved in court as a gift in Feb 1803. Witnesses: Joseph Clarke and Montford Dyarnett"
Since we know that said Ephraim Hampton was the son of Andrew Hampton of Granville Co. NC through various land deeds filed in Granville Co. NC.
Since we know from other records that Zachariah was the father of two sons: said John & Nolan Hampton.
This record gives us the evidence that Andrew Hampton of Granville Co. VA was also the father of said Zachariah Hampton.
It could be that there were two different John Hampton, the one I had hope I found a good record John son of my Zachariah Hampton and his brother John might have had a son named John as well.
Which means I am back to square one about finding good record that my Zachariah Hampton was the son of Andrew Hampton.
Will continue to look at additional records.
I do hope present & future Mckay researchers realize how luck they are to have family groups that have been working on in the past by so many people who have pay attention to detail.
On the other hand--Hampton Family History: John Hampton of Scotland and NJ, generation older than our Robert Mackay, Hampton researchers know where he lived in Scotland, the name of the ship "Exchange" he arrived, do have a good listing of his children and wives, have his will, but past researchers have not been able to get a good documented list on his GRANDCHILDREN. And all born in the same location Monmouth Co. NJ, the ones I am interested in removed into Cecil Co. MD then down to VA or NC.
This family is a very very tiny group of people compared against all the other Hampton living in US. They should start by looking at the book by Virginia G. Meynard "The Venturers", or go to any public library the records dealing with the surname Hampton Surname most likely connected with this group of "English Hampton". They removed to Frederick Co. VA, down into the NC, SC all part of the south, from VA into KY, TN, AL, AR, LA & TX.
Not having a good list of his John Hampton Sr.'s grandchildren has led to bad connections of his family members in VA and NC. They had combined "our" family members with the entirely different Hampton family living in Frederick Co. VA as one family and merged two different Andrew Hampton living in NC as one person. These being the Andrew Hampton of Rutherford Co. NC and Andrew Hampton of Granville Co. NC, each having various listing of their children, which means people do not have the documentation for either man.
All could have been avoided if they had started with the second generation of Hampton and worked their way down to the next generation.
The mis-leading information found on the inter-net and family histories is appalling. All will never be edited or deleted and will be picked up by future researchers wasting their time and money.
I have examined the marriage record of John Hampton & Martha Brown on L.D.S. film Shrewsbury Quaker Records the marriage took place 3rd day 1st month (Mar) 1686/7.
I am trying to figure out if the pedigree given in various computer banks are correct about her parentage.
I do think that Abraham Brown was her father born c1642 most likely in RI, not in England as reported, Martha was the daughter of Cattron who signed in the "family column" of the above record. Abraham married second to a Mary, other say her maiden name Potter.
I will be reading land deeds for Monmouth Co. NJ and hope to shed more light upon the family of the above Cattron. Now perhaps some of the other names in "Family Column" will lead the way.
In the computer banks they have the father of said Abraham as Nicholas Brown. That is true according to Stillwater books. The locations given in the computer banks I do not believe are correct. According to Stillwater he (Nicholas) was an "Englishman" removed to RI where he died. He might have had more than one wife, one known as Elizabeth, widow of George Parker. The computer banks have her maiden name as Leids. I do not know if that is correct or not. I hope to view RI film early next year, for I am looking for my Josiah Foster in that location.
Now if the parentage for Nicholas Brown is correct in the computer banks the line goes back to John Brown born 1312 in Stanford, LIncolnshire-- I do not know if I will have the time to check all their material. My guess would be it is not correct. I would need to find in RI a records which clearly stated the location said Nicholas lived in England. Have other's found that record, that's is the question. Most likely people are playing the game "pick a Brown" in the records in England.
It would be nice if "people" only send out over the net correct information but we know that is not the case.
My main focus will be trying to find the records for Nicholas to Abraham Brown and his two wives, the rest of it I will leave to others.
Noland (sic) Hampton sold his slave Jack (@17 years of age) for $421 in Carroll Co. TN to Nicholas H. Darnel of Carroll Co. TN on 15 Apr 1832.
I believe said Noland Hampton bought the slave from NC into TN. I want to try to link him to his father's estate Zachariah Hampton through said slave.
Noland Hampton and his son Noah Hampton used as collateral their slave named Tom (value $225) to secure their debt due to Haywood Cozart. Said Noland Hampton was deceased by 1850. His son Noah on 1850 Carroll Co. TN census.
The only Hampton as slave owner in Carroll Co. TN was Noah's son James Hampton. I do not know why 11 slaves were listed as his slaves' and not his father's estate.
In any case, I have found the early Carroll Co. TN land deeds are full of buying & selling of slaves in this region of TN. Therefore, a gold mine for African-American researchers.
Part of my research is to find all Haplogroup found on my pedigree charts, not a easy task.
Thanks to the effort of a distant cousin Guy Derryberry, he found my distant cousin Donald Derryberry who also descends from Thomas Derryberry of Henderson Co. TN who took the DNA test.
You can find the same pattern of numbers on Y-Search under Andy Lynn Derryberry's (line of Adam) numbers the same as Guy Derryberry (line of Michael-- his not public) & Donald Derryberry (line of Thomas his not public).
R1b1a2 13,22,15,10,11,14,12,12,11,13,13,28
You can find the rest of the number on Y-Search
The emigrate ancestor was Hans Michael Torenberger arrived 1738 in the boat "Robert & Oliver" (another source said "Robert & Alice").
One place in PA given as his residence Lehigh Co. PA (formed from Northampton Co. PA in 1812).
I have already viewed tax list for Northampton and I have not found said Hans Michael. I will be ordering film dealing with Philadelphia Co. PA for my Schipp/Ships will see if I can find him in that location.
Hans Michael would have arrived about the same time and perhaps the same location as my John Frederick Schipp.
Tax list for Hunterdon Co. NJ in Alexandria TWP--1785 John Dusenberry or Dufenberry as tax payer. This TWP is closer to Kingwood TWP. Part of it on Delaware River. I believe the list after 1785 missing picks back up in 1803, surname gone by that time.
Have additional film on the way for NJ hope to find out more next week. I will have to order additional film for his location for my Derriberry & Thatcher families.
I am going to look for Hopgood in Somerset Co. NJ.
There was a family called Hogeland (Daniel & Derrick) who lived in both Hunterdon Co. NJ & Bucks Co. PA. Other researcher like to think really our Hopgood, but I do not think that is correct. Two different families.
L.D.S. #865475 Tax Payers for Hunterdon Co. NJ, in Bethlehem TWP, this section of the film very poor to read. Some of these tax list you can find on Ancestry.com.
1780 Wm. Dusenberry 100a, John Dusenberry 80a & Samuel Dusenberry 50a.
1785 looks like John Duzenberry still in same location
1789 Henry Dussenbury 60a & Johannah Dusenbury
Rest of county unreadable.
We have known for some time from an entry in Rowan Co. NC local history:
"Dusenbery, Samuel a native of NJ a Revoluntionary Office and member of General Assembly from Rowan Co. NC aged about 70 years, died 10 Oct 1829 in Lexington."
Alexandria TWP: John Dusenberry or Dufenberry
Bethelehm TWP: Wm, John & Samuel Dusenberry
Kingwood TWP: Sarah Dereberry
Tewksbury TWP: Jacob Terrberry in 1786 & 1790
I was told Hans Michael lived in Morris Co. NJ area, that film I hope will be coming next week. I have found no Hans Michael in PA or this county of NJ.
I will wait until I find out more about these families from addiitonal original records.
Are they really the same family who spelled the name in different ways, or not related at all?.
Researcher Walter Dusenbery has submitted a DNA sample under name: Dusenbury or Dusenberry.
His oldest known ancestor John Dusenbury is thought to be related to the Van Doesburg family of New Amsterdam. They arrived in 1636 from Doesburg, Holland.
I have send him a message about this line. I would be interested if said Samuel Dusenbery of NJ & NC were of his family.
L.D.S. #192633 #6 has abtraction from Bucks Co. PA Newspaper
"Mehitabel Dusenberry died 5th Jan 1815, age of 16 years, daughter of Maj. Henry B. Dusenberry of Philadelphia, PA, printed in newspaper 39 May 1815."
I have run this daughter & father through Ancestry.com & Family Search.com computer bank, nothing found on them. Need to find the parentage of said Henry B. Dusenberry.
You can find on "Fine a Grave" this spelling of surname in PA. Early NY marriages four marriages listed. This family could have come into US through NY then down to PA. So really not related to the ones who came directly from Europe into Phildelphia, PA.
Our Derryberry Y DNA test show Guy Derryberry (off by three numbers), Bob Derryberry & Donald Derryberry (my 4th cousin once removed).That test showing a matching pattern.
However, under Family DNA Path Finder, Donald Derryberry does not show up on my test site, now does he show a match with they other two Derryberry men. Really do not understand.
Three other researchers show matching Donald or Guy Derryberry. Which is another mystery to me.
I hope as more people turn in the test some of these mysteries will be solved.
My ethical profile between Family DNA and Ancestry show a different break down of my population center.
Unfortunately, I did not have the chance to exchange information directly with the late Harold Jean Bolen of GA. And I would have asked some direct & hard questions.
Our common ancestors were Reeves Bolen & Durainey Carrington. He descended from his eldest son John W. Bolen and my great-grandmother Dessie G. Bolen from his youngest son Sion M. Bolen.
When I first started to collect information about my great-grandmother Dessie Green Bolen I ran into his material:that the Bolen of Henderson Co. TN were descendants of the Bolling of VA (descendants of Pocahontas). As another researcher told me "he so wanted to be related Pocahontas that he just made up material about the family in North Carolina down from VA." The "Professional Genealogist" who he had hired stopped supplying him material when he saw him twisting, changing, deleting etc....material which did not fit with what he wanted to believe.
There are a lot of other researches (mostly living in the South) who have also supplied materials to others trying to connect their Bowling, Bolen etc...to the Bolling family of VA. The Collection of Papers called "Phelps Works" you can order all on film through L.D.S. library.
Well we now have D.N.A test and the Bolling family of VA has a rather large project collecting samples. I do not know if any of my male Bolen have been tested, but I am sure they are not related to the group that H.J. Bolen has spread information. Most likely they came down from MD into Granville Co. NC.
His materials show up in local newspapers and into others personal libraries. He was going to publish his works, but died before it could be completed, called "A Family History 1476-1976"
I realize it is not good to "speak ill of the dead", but he wasted a lot of my time and money collecting information about the Bolling of VA. Why should I sit by and let others waste their time & money as well.
My cousin from TN send me some picture of the Bolen of Henderson Co. TN that belong to the descendants of John W. Bolen and some could have had "non-white" blood lines, but they would not have been from Pocahontas !!! Perhaps in the future Mitochondrial DNA test might shed light on this mytery.
I know that there were Bollings were said to be direct descendants of Pocahontas. Others who possess the Bolling name (& variants) claim various Indian origins, mostly claiming Cherokee. What would be interesting is if you were to find some of these people being listed on census records as being 'mulatto' rather than 'white' as I've done with some of my Hartless ancestors.
Being you're tracing some of your ancestors to Coastal North Carolina you may find quite a few of these families have Indian claims. My friend Sara Whitford who lives in that area has done quite a bit of research on her ancestors and studying Indian ancestry. She's been helpful in regards to my ancestors on Mom's side. Believe ultimately we share common ancestry but I'm sure it's several generations back, much further than Robert Mackay Sr. is on my dad's side. Just a lot of similarities.
In this case, H.J. Bolen just made up facts because he wanted to be a descendants of a "famous Indian".
If females could be tested African-American shows up as "L" and Native American as "A" or "C". I do not know if they can place you in an individual tribes or not. Seems a lot of people seem to want to claim "Cherokee" perhaps they like the song "Cherokee People, Cherokee Tribe". Of course, Pocahontas was not a member of that group.
I know nothing about his female blood lines: Farmer & Jean families of early TN. It could be his females line contained "non-white", but not of Pocahontas. The pictures have been seen by several people I know, the first remark "Looks African-American".
If a person on the census was listed as "mulatto" that means African-American. In my Dictionary "The offspring of one white parent and one Negro parent". The people compiling the census and other court records were local people they knew who were of mixed race. And if they failed to record the proper race, they would go to jail. I do not know if Native American were required to be recorded on census records--1850,1860,1870. I have not looked at later census. I have seen CA census in 1900 list Chinese separately. Not listed as "Mulatto".
I have looked in the past at some paid Bolling Site at the public library and they have D.N.A tested posted for all to see. They also divide his descendants as "Red" & "White" Bollings. One group from his first marriage (descendants of Pocahontas) and "White" Bolling from his second marriage.
Far more Bolling, Bolen, Bowling totally different Haplogroup.
All Ball researcher start their research believe a member of Mary Ball's family, mother of George Washington. In the end most are not. Taylor researchers I have known working with VA records, all want to be related to President Z. Taylor, they are not. People just want to be related to famous people.
My problem with this classification was that it was said to have a broader meaning than simply half black/half white which is the proper definition of it.
Here's a link that illustrates what I've been hearing about early usage of this word:
I will take the information under advisement. But I still hold with Webster Dictionary statement about "Mulatto". You might have areas of the Colonies/US which had groups of people: Native American, freed slaves and white (like in FL)that mixed together in a small community, but they were referred to as Seminole. I am afraid my "fellow Whites" rather have the term "Mulatto" expanded to include "Native American" because they rather not find their blood lines includes African-American. Now D.N.A. testing will give you the the answer to that question and we do not have to go on others "personal opinion" what people "look like".
I believe years ago there was a site which showed the descendants of John Bolling of VA compared to others samples. Obviously totally different families. If you look at the picture of John Bolling Sr. of VA he doesn't look particurly "Indian" to me. On the other hand, the two pictures of my distant Bolen cousins, appear to show non-white features. Logically, they would be at least 12 generations from the time period of Pocahontas.
H.J. Bolen wants "us" to believe that these men just now "look like Pocahontas". Afraid I am not buying it. Another rule of Science, the child can not be dark than the darkest parent. Also I have two other pictures of Bolen men: gr-gr-grandfather Sion Monroe Bolen and his Uncle P.H. Bolen either have the same features as the other Bolen.
So a persons with the surname: Bolling, Bowling, Bolin, Bolen etc..... just take a test and it will rule you in or out as being member of the "Famous Bolling". I am afraid people rather hold on to their fairly tales rather than to have the truth. People have been holding on to their believes for decades and they do not want to have science comming along and take them away from them. Please, do not raise the point of "the cost of the test", they money spend doing a D.N.A. is far less than the cost of doing research.
As far as your family problem: D.N.A. will rule the various Y marker as African-American or not on the male line only. Now if you have distant cousins who are also interested in genealogy, you can look at your pedigree chart and trace the various lines back by the various Hapologroups.
I wish Family D.N.A. Web Site had a menus of all the various surnames that have been tested so we all could "share" the results. For people who have done their library work, armed with additional D.N.A. test, could/should be very helpful. Non-matches just as important as matches.
It would be nice if we were able to find that piece of legislation indicating Virginia's official designation of 'Mulatto'.
Yeah, there's no way any of those people can look like Pocahontas especially since they've been intermarrying for many years.
One of my biggest pet peaves is these so-called Indian 'tribes' that have popped up here in Virginia and North Carolina made up of both white, black and mixed peoples who all claim to have Indian ancestry. Seems that the only culture they promote is the plastic powwow culture that seems to be prevelant amongst them. You visit any of their websites they are either a dancer, a healer or whatever their interpretation of how Indians lived. They claim to be honouring their ancestors. Folks, if you are honouring your ancestors you would be respectful of how they really lived their lives and not engage in some made up fantasy of how their culture was taken away from them etc. etc. and how you're bringing it back.
I have the biggest problem with the Tuscarora groups in North Carolina who seem to have forgotten that the only way a person is a member of the Tuscarora Nation is if his or her mother is a member and only through that line. Many of these groups twist that fact around to their own amusement. The Tuscarora Nation does not recognise as members any of these groups in North Carolina and has repeatedly asked them to stop calling themselves Tuscarora. It's okay to have Tuscarora ancestry but they are no more members of that Nation than I am French or Scottish based on my ancestry.
As to DNA testing I think it would involve more complex DNA testing to find out whether or not someone has Indian ancestry if it is possible. It would involve hundreds of dollars nonetheless. The testing we've been focusing on are straight patrilineal and matrilineal lines without any deviation so they don't include the DNA from the other families you come from in the middle.
I've found both my Matrilineal and Patrilineal DNA tests (Y-DNA & MTDNA) point to European origins so if I can trace any Indian ancestry in my family it has to be from one of the other families I come from in the middle. Same appears to be true for my friend Sara.
We read articles all the time in these D.N.A web sites a "white person" has received D.N.A. which goes back to "A" or "C" for Mitochondrial Test, which points to "Native American".
If these test results were made available to "we" who have paid our money to FamilyTree D.N.A. it would be very helpful. D.N.A. would really be a club to be used by the serious researcher to solve all kinds of "Family Mysteries". As it is now, "we" have to hope others will supply information to us. If they do not match we will not hear from them.
If you think about all your Quaker Families, well FamilytreeDNA has a special group of people comparing notes only among themselves--English Quakers. Well I would love to have that information. Wouldn't you like to know the Haplogroup of Hollingsworth, Antrim, Garwood, Wright, Haines etc....
With your Hartless Family, have any Y markers or Mitochondrial test have been done? Simple test would give you a rather direct answer: African-American or Native American.
When we submit our test we can mark we want the results shared or not. It would not cost additional monies, just to index their test results to all of us by surname or Haplogroup.
I do not think the decendants of Elizabeth Brown should have to come to me and ask for the test results. All who spend their money with FamilyTree DNA should have the opportunity to study the information supplied by others. That's is if they are really interested in furthering our research.
I have already authorized my sample send to National Geographical Society for their 5 year study.
Well, the nature of my Hartless line is that in latter generations before intermarrying into my Entsmingers their patrilineal ancestry wasn't Hartless. I have two instances where the children took their mother's name rather than the father's who was unknown.
Remember the situation with my Smiths? Similar one with my Hartless.
As to the earlier ones I guess it depends on which parent in the first intermarriage was white, black or Indian. If it was a man named Hartless whose paternal line goes back to Native America or Africa it will show up as such and he would have married a white woman and produced offspring which will show the African or Native Y-DNA markers. If the situation was reversed the children will show European markers like Haplogroup R1b1 etc. but will still of course be called 'mulatto'.
It would be interesting to find out if any Hartless persons had Y-DNA tests done.
I actually do focus on my known families here and work back. I hope to acquire evidence that will one day prove or disprove Indian ancestry in these families (or African if that ends up being the case) but I don't go out of my way to try my darndest to make the claim that they are indeed Indian and then set out to 'prove' it to be true if you know what I mean by that. I just take whatever comes my way and apply it when possible.
The sad thing though is knowing what I know about the Hartless family if one of the latter Hartless ancestors was to do a Y-DNA test and one of the earlier ones that it would come back showing not related only because the latter Hartless person's paternal ancestry really isn't Hartless. Part of the complication with Y-DNA testing. We are lucky our lineage in the McKay family followed the proper married pattern (with the exception of Kent Smith, still don't know why he matches so closely with us).
On my mother's side I'm the only known one who has had the MTDNA test done and my Y-DNA test only works on McKay. Maybe I can talk one of my relatives on my mom's side to do a Y-DNA test for Jenkins. Would have to be one of my uncles or else their sons.
If your problem was my problem, which it is not: Before I spend a lot of time & monies studying Native Americans Tribes (unless you have another reason) I would first firmly establish I had Native American Ancestry. Then study that particular group.
If I hadn't mentioned it before I apologise. I did receive the Smith info. but haven't incorporated it into the website yet. Eventually that will happen. Right now been copying photos from the Floyd McKay branch for a cousin in that line. Then I want to get back to working on the Quaker Meetings in SW Ohio. After that I should be back on the 'Maverick's Corner' families again where I'll add the Smith data.
Yeah, I go back through my own families and if the data that makes an Indian connection is there I will find it. I do not go out of my way to try and 'prove' our families are Indian. That proof (yes or no) will come in it's own time.
(P.S. I also don't believe that they descend from only one Indian tribe. Like our European ancestors you have different peoples coming together for a variety of reasons and intermarriage between all of them will definitely happen. From the McKay side how many nationalities can we trace ancestry to? We have German, French, English, Scottish, Welsh, Dutch, Irish to name some. Same thing likely true when researching Eastern American Indian ancestry.
You mention a cousin in Floyd McKay's line, is he a male McKay cousin who is willing to be tested?
I still have my doubts that Floyd McKay was a descendant of Robert Mackay Sr. His wife was a descendant of Robert Mackay Sr. and "our" cousin, it could be people just assumed he was related to his wife's family.
I could check and see if she has any nearer relatives with the McKay surname and if it's possible one of them might be willing to get tested. Could confirm your suspicions about Floyd McKay at least.
If I can review the data base in Family Tree DNA for all surnames: first I would see if male McKay who document their line back to MARYLAND, what is their Haplogroup?. I suspect would not match "our" Robert Mackay Sr. Non-matches are just as important as matches.
Just think of all the time people wasting trying to find a link between each other with the same surname. D.N.A. Test (cheaper way to go) could tell them right away not to waste their time and money or there might be a relationship.
I would have to think about your statement about what looking at tests the females would yield me. A Y marker test on the males of Floyd McKay would settle the question.
I would love to see our IN cousins to step up and submit their tests. A lot of the information I have about those cousins was given to the late Hunter Branson McKay and he never questioned what people gave to him or questioned their documentation.
I have been Google various surnames in my personal chart to see if D.N.A. results are posted. All in connectin with Y marker and I have really not seen people studying Mitochondrial D.N.A.
The Bolling Family Association very nice site and there are Bolen whose results show "E" (African-American Marker, "L" for females) and I wonder who they might be. I really would love to see the two sons of my Reeves Bolen to be tested, to see if they matched each other and if they matched the Bolen decendants of John Bowling & Martha Mangum. I am assuming the brothers of my Reeves Bolen were tested.
D.N.A. as totally settled the question of my Ball ancestors as NOT being related to Col. Wm. Ball.
D.N.A. has given me the Haplogroup of President Z. Taylor, now I just have to hope a distant member of my Taylor family submit his test.
The Mangum site I am going to have to study closer to see if they have clearly found the Y Marker for Joseph Mangum, my ancestor.
Found the Gist Y Marker for my ancestor of Christopher Gist of early Baltimore, MD.
There is a Brown D.N.A. Site, but I have not found the time to study it. I have four different Brown Families.
I have looking on line for our Sowers & Kerfoot families, but I have not found any good sites. If you hear anything about these families I would like to know about them.
As I cumulate my various Haplogroups, post the results on my Charts, I can start to narrow down the possiblies of Native American (was only in connection with Bolen Family, so that's settled) or African-American (never spoke of) in my family groups.
If Family Tree D.N.A. would open their records to me I am sure I could find the Haplogroups for all our Quaker ancestors. Send them a e-mail on Friday, just waiting for their answer.
1. BALL--R1b1b2--Non Match with Col. Wm. Ball--useful--Family Tree not useful
Totally settled a "Family Tale" as being false.
2. BOLEN--R1b1--Non Match with Robert Bolling--useful--Family Tree not useful
Totally settled a "Family Tale" as being false.
3. BROWN--J 1 c 8--I supplied the information
4. GIST--R 1b1b2--found on another site, not Family Tree D.N.A.
5. MCKAY--R1b1--supplied by Michael L. McKay test results, But what we need is a grouping of the various test results like found on The Bolling Family Association, all the different men living in different or the same areas. Who does not match just as important as matches.
6. MORRIS--I 1-- supplied by Reed Morris, but need to see the results of men living in Orange Co. NC who matches or non-matches.
................................................
7. BRANSON--I have found a site, but their data is confusing, think "R" for Thomas Branson
8. MANGUM--I have to check their results, could yield my letter. Their site had a question why Mangum Man has Duke Marker ? Well if they had done their Library Work they would know why--Adultery--Stated in public record the will of Wm. Duke of Orange Co. NC.
I should be able find in the computer bank of Family Tree hundreds of my other Haplogroups. And settle the question if any of my lines contain any letter other than "European".
I wish I had a nickle for every time I heard the phrase "Genealogy is Sharing". OK it is time to "Share" FAMILYTREEDNA. Put the information into the hands of real researchers who know how to use it.
I did find Family Tree DNA posting of the Mackay profiles that they have tested with the various different Haplogroups.
But they did not give the important information as to who is the oldest known ancestor of the men being tested.
The Bolling Family Association has a wonderful site if you are just starting your Bolling, Boland, Bolen etc....research. You can see easily for yourself if you are a related to the family of Robert Bolling or not, mostly likely you are not.
But perhaps your distant ancestor has already been tested by others and they are sharing those results with others for free.
Received a very nice and complete e-mail from her about how these project pages are laid out on line.
According to her "the oldest known ancestors" are not on her page, because the people who took the D.N.A. have not supply her the necessary information.
She stated that she just does not have the time to chase people trying to get them to send her the needed information.
I thanked her again for her time and left the offer to send the project monies, if her site started stating "oldest known ancestor" and of course I would want the monies spend on "our Mckay". I do not know if these two conditions will be met or not.
Some surname project have both Y & Mitochondrial Results and I do not believe the Mackay does. I do not know why some do and some do not. I would be intereted in seeing woman born into "our McKay" to have the opportunity to be included on this site. But again I have no idea why some surnames have both and most do not.
Forgot to record that Bridget Kopeteky's e-mail stated that no descend of Floyd McKay included in her listing of kit numbers. She said that people who had IN roots wrote her but did not order a kit.
I have a match with another Mangum researcher (J.E.F. Chart) this researcher's line from Howell Mangum b. 1732 married to Mary Ogburn son Pleasant Mangum (1777-1870) married Ann Lloyd their daughter Lucy Mangum (1823-1913) Joseph Faulkner.
Another research give the father of Howell as Samuel.
I am looking to prove that my Martha Mangum (1770-1855) was the daughter of Joseph Mangum (c1745-1810).Other say above Joseph Mangum was a cousin of Samuel. Said Joseph did have a son named Pleasant.
In any case, DNA is saying there was a common DNA marker between Joseph & Howell Mangum.
There is a DNA studying being done on the surname, but I do not know if a male line from said Howell & Joseph Mangum is included.
There's a section of the Valentine Hollingsworth Society website devoted towards the DNA study of descendants who have shared the Y-DNA info. Here's a link to that page:
Yes, it would be interesting to know if similar studies were done on other Quaker families. Also, to update you on the Robert Mackay Sr. Y-DNA profile we are also in Haplogroup R1b1b2*. The asterisk means it hasn't been actually tested but data from other sources indicate this is our group as well.
This particular group is said to be common in Western Europe from the British Isles on down to Spain.
This comprised the areas settled by Celtic tribes and their predecessors in Britain, Ireland, Gaul & Iberia. The people doing the testing hesitate to call it the 'Celtic' haplogroup since 'Celtic' is a cultural term and not necessarily a racial one. But nonetheless the people in this part of Europe have been here for a long time and we descend from them.
Michael, a Hollingsworth man has posted an entries on Gen Forum Hampton page, that some Hollingsworth males are coming up with the profile filed by Hampton men who lived in VA c1780.
No, this is the first I've heard about this. I click on the Valentine Hollingsworth page every now and then and look at the DNA study but I didn't see that last time I looked.
This is very odd, I just checked the Morris Family Tree D.N.A. project for Morris listing of test results. I saw my distant cousin James G. Morris listing he match not with other Morris but with Isaac HOLLINGSWORTH I 1
Our Morris lived in Orange Co. NC to Henderson Co. TN.
The Haplogroup for the various findings for men who have send in a Y marker test for Hollingsworth surname found on their site.
The Hollingsworth family associated with the Mackay/Mckay are the descendants of Valentine Hollingsworth R 1b1b2.
This means the person who claims descend from an Isaac Hollingsworth tested out as I l. He would not be a descendant of the said Valentine Hollingsworth.
There are other men who do not descend from Valentine Hollingsworth who send in test samples. You would have to e-mail the project manager of this group to see if he would give you further information.
If you have send in a sample under the surname Morris, you could have the e-mail address of the man who send in Hollingsworth sample give as I 1. Ask him for further information.
I believe I have posted here a message about Wm. Morris and his will, which acknownledged that a member of his household fathered a son with the maid (Missouri Miller). This child was known as Frank Melton Miller. His nephew Felix Melton fathered a child with Miss White and I believe a daughter. Charged in court with his action. Could be he fathered the son with the Morris maid. So if a man send in a Y marker test I have no idea if it would show Morris or Melton markers.
There were Hollingsworth living in Benton Co. TN, the location of this Morris household and I have no idea if one of them fathered a child with Miss Hollingsworth.
Since I do not have the opportunity to e-mail men who supplied DNA to the Morris project, I do not know the history of the Hollingsworth man who tested out as Morris.
Now, wouldn't be interested if his line goes back to Orange Co. NC, see my posting about Isaac Morris.
From the Mackay Y-DNA study this appears to be our group since I recognise my Family Tree test kit number. I'm going to email Bridget and ask her if she can provide any details on all the individuals being tested here. I only have the ones I gleaned from Y-Search who have posted their results.
Of any of these results the ones who do not claim descent from Robert Mackay Sr. I'd be interested in where their earliest known ancestor called home. See if possibly they came from the Northeast from Massachusetts to New Jersey.
According to the web master of Mackay D.N.A. site, the oldest known ancestors are not included with her listing because the people connected with the kit numbers have not supplied her the information.
I would like to see her site include the oldest known ancestor and grouped together in the various known family groups. This is the way the Bolling Family has their site. When the information is recorded this way it is very helpful for doing research.
Also I would like to know why some sites have Mitochondrial Test Results posted and other do not. Mackay does not female tested included.
I would like to encourage our female McKay to submit their tests. How others can view the material I have not figured out as now. I have talked about five people at the L.D.S. library to submit their test to Family Tree D.N.A.
If you are interested in genealogy then submit your D.N.A. test, it will help you and others. I think more people would submit their test if Family Tree D.N.A. had a easier way to see the test results. One problem I have run into if the results are not included in Project the test results can not be seen. So I sure I am missing a lot of the information. And all the female test results I am not sure how to see those results.
You do not have to have a test kit on file to view Family Tree D.N.A. Project Files. Just type in www.familytreedna, just go to Projects and type in the surname you want to see the results.
As it stands now my Granville & Orange counties, NC did not come from eastern counties of NC then moving west. They came down from either NJ or VA (Bowling/Bolen from MD).
That's the million dollar question? How could H.J. Bolen mixed together the two entirely different men. Because he set aside the facts which he did not like and would not get the blood line back to the family of John Bolling of VA.
John Bolling of VA, rich & educated, lived in Dinwiddle Co. VA, did sell some land in Granville Co. NC and he signed his name as John Bolling.
Then there was my line of John Bowling & his wife Elizabeth, made their marks on various documents. John Bowling was with MD Militia during the American Revoluntary War.
His son John Bowling made his mark on his marriage bond (I have a copy) to Martha Mangum.
He made the leap back to VA, because HE WANTED TO be related to the famous Indian.
All of which I find a shame, because I do not want to throw out his information about the Bolen living in Henderson Co. VA, but then I see a researcher being "fast & lose" with the facts I find it hard to believe anything else they have to say.
He personally knew my gr-gr-grandfather Sion M. Bolen and claims to have information from his sister (Aunt Ad) as to the names of Reeves Bolen brothers & sisters back in NC. But my problem is--is all that correct or did he make up stories about them as well.
I am doing to Google the surname "Bolling" and see what new items might be on the net. I would like to know the Haplogroup for John Bolling's family.
I will take the information under advisement. But I still hold with Webster Dictionary statement about "Mulatto". You might have areas of the Colonies/US which had groups of people: Native American, freed slaves and white (like in FL)that mixed together in a small community, but they were referred to as Seminole. I am afraid my "fellow Whites" rather have the term "Mulatto" expanded to include "Native American" because they rather not find their blood lines includes African-American. Now D.N.A. testing will give you the the answer to that question and we do not have to go on others "personal opinion" what people "look like".
I believe years ago there was a site which showed the descendants of John Bolling of VA compared to others samples. Obviously totally different families. If you look at the picture of John Bolling Sr. of VA he doesn't look particurly "Indian" to me. On the other hand, the two pictures of my distant Bolen cousins, appear to show non-white features. Logically, they would be at least 12 generations from the time period of Pocahontas.
H.J. Bolen wants "us" to believe that these men just now "look like Pocahontas". Afraid I am not buying it. Another rule of Science, the child can not be dark than the darkest parent. Also I have two other pictures of Bolen men: gr-gr-grandfather Sion Monroe Bolen and his Uncle P.H. Bolen either have the same features as the other Bolen.
So a persons with the surname: Bolling, Bowling, Bolin, Bolen etc..... just take a test and it will rule you in or out as being member of the "Famous Bolling". I am afraid people rather hold on to their fairly tales rather than to have the truth. People have been holding on to their believes for decades and they do not want to have science comming along and take them away from them. Please, do not raise the point of "the cost of the test", they money spend doing a D.N.A. is far less than the cost of doing research.
As far as your family problem: D.N.A. will rule the various Y marker as African-American or not on the male line only. Now if you have distant cousins who are also interested in genealogy, you can look at your pedigree chart and trace the various lines back by the various Hapologroups.
I wish Family D.N.A. Web Site had a menus of all the various surnames that have been tested so we all could "share" the results. For people who have done their library work, armed with additional D.N.A. test, could/should be very helpful. Non-matches just as important as matches.
Since D.N.A. test were not used in our research by earlier researchers, people could make serious research errors.
The most serious error is when we have not found positive records giving us our ancestors' parents , and "we" try linking our ancestors with families that have been established.
If there is a "famous" person to try to link up with so much the better.
This is what as happened with Bolling, Boland, Bolen etc....research.
You can look at any well documented book on the descendants of Pocahontas and look at the generation of:
John Bolling (1700-1757) m. Elizabeth Blair and they had ONLY seven children: Thomas, John, Robert, Mary, Sarah, Archibald & Anne.
However, Bolen researchers wanting to link up with the above couple, self-published books, computer banks, articles, letters, telephone calls and now web sites have given to said Elizabeth Blair 20 CHILDREN: Metoaka, Archibald, Elizabeth, Wm., Jared, Martha, Benj., Dorthey, Thomas, John, Robert, Jane, Rodney, Mary, Rolfe, Edward, Sarah, Anne, Powhatan & James. All found in the notes of H.J. Bolen in his book "A Family History 1476-1976"
Also found on page 116 of the book published by Todd Bolen & Lois (Bolen) Stange in 1997 "The Bolling, Bowling, Bolen Family in America before 1800".
All can be found in the L.D.S. film collection and I am sure people are still passing around this information on their personal web site. People have totally no SHAME.
The above John Bolling who married Martha Jefferson, some very wild stories were made up about him and found in Todd Bolen's book. H.J. Bolen has their son John Bolling married to Alice Kennon, living VA then leaving for Granville Co. NC married to Martha Mangum (he has the wrong parents named for her). The main problem with his story is that John Bolling NEVER lived in NC. Remember John Bolling of VA signed his name as Bolling and the John Bowling who married Martha Mangum, made his "X" on records in Granville Co. VA. I guess the Bolen researchers want us to believe John Bolling of VA "got stupid" in NC and forgot how to sign his name!!
I wish in the past the true descendants of John Bolling of Sr., in public had confronted this false information and the people who continue to circulate it as FACT.
Now we have D.N.A. which can be used as a gate to stop people linking up with the wrong family group. If you think you are descendant of one of the additional children of Elizabeth Blair Bolling , proof it, take a D.N.A test and then in public post the results. For in the past if you posted incorrect information now you can post the correct Scientific Results.
Reeves Bolen was born in 1 Dec 1818 in Orange Co. NC m. 1838 in Henderson Co. TN, court house record destroy, to Durainey Carrington born 15 Sep 1820 Orange Co. NC. He died 1864 Henderon Co. TN. She died 1 Apr 1851, both are buried in Carrington Family Burial Ground. My distant cousin Sue Stewart spend her own monies & time to fix up the family grave yard. So we know where the bodies are buried!!!.
From census information in Henderson Co. TN matches the year of his birth in 1818 and he had a penny which he carried with him, because it had his birth year on it. So that is the fact his birth year was 1818 and the fact is he married Durainey Carrington.
It is know that Durainey Carrington parents were Sion Carrington & Jemima Cozart, they removed from Orange Co. NC to Henderson Co. TN, leaving their daughter's "sweet heart" in NC, said Reeves Bolen.
He as a young man followed the above family into NC, leaving his family in Orange Co. NC.
Now here is the problem, since Reeves Bolen was just a young man in NC, he owned no property nor was he listed on any census as head of household. I just have the word of my late cousin H.J. Bolen that his parents were John Bowling & Martha Mangum. And said H.J. Bolen recorded the names of his siblings from the daughter of said Reeves, but I just have his word.
Said H.J. Bolen did meet with the descendants of Willis Bowling, eldest son of John & Marth (Mangum) Bowling, they seem to agree they were cousins. But these two men were part of the farce trying to connect our Bolen with Pocohontas. So the issue of "trust" comes into the picture.
Now, if I could get one of the sons of Sion M. Bolen to be test, that test would at least tell me if my line fits the profile already submitted by two sons of John & Martha Bowling.
Now along comes the e-mail by Franklin Bolen, who has submitted a D.N.A. on file Bolling D.N.A. project.
He stated that:
1. John Bowling died 1814 Granville Co. VA. and one of his son named
2. Wm. Reeves born 1815, d. 1864 in Henderson Co. TN married to Durainey Carrington, buried in Carrington Family Graveyard in Henderson Co. TN.
Now is silly to think that there existed in the U.S two couples:
Reeves Bolen born 1818 m. Durainey Carrington died in Henderson Co. VA buried in Carrington Cemetery
and
Wm. Reeves Bolen born 1815 m. Durainey Carrington died in Henderson Co. VA buried in Carrington Cemetery.
So Franklin Bolen has the name wrong it is Reeves not Wm. Reeves Bolen and he was born in 1818 not in 1815. Now the problem becomes if he is right about John death date as 1814, said John could not be the father of my Reeves Bolen.
Since he was wrong about the name & birth year, I think he was also wrong about the death date of John Bowling. The John Bowling (father of Reeves) died c1839, his father was the one who died 1814.
One of the test samples send in to The Bolling DNA Site came from the son of H.J. Bolen which clearly shows that the 50 years his father thought we were from the family Col. Robert Bolling of VA is false. Our numbers and we are part of Group 3
R1b1 13,24,14,11,11,12,12,12,14,13,13,39
Going back through H.J. Bolen's note I did find an interesting statement, which I do not understand why he did not follow up. Reeves Bolen made trips from Henderson Co. TN to Granville Co. NC to visit his mother and other relations. A trip that took months going by horse back.
The only family from NC that came to TN to visit was a "Cousin Lucy Clark and her four daughters".
Was she a Mangum or Bowling cousin? I found a marriage in Granville Co. NC between a Mary Jane Mangum on 6th Aug 1849 to Joseph Clark. An entry found Ancestry.com has a Mary Jane Mangum born 1818 died 1900, but her parents not listed. She was born the same year that Reeves Bowling was born.
I do not known enough about the various Mangum Family members associated with Reeves' mother Martha to know if this is the right persons or not.
I do not see any marriages between Bolling/Bowling etc with a Clark woman. So I am assuming at the moment that said Lucy Clark was from his mother's MANGUM family.
About two decades ago I exchanged information with Alexander Bolling of VA, he being a "white Bolling". He told me then "we have no record of members of our family removed down to NC to settle". That was a polite way of saying "the blue Bollings really do not have any documentation for their claims of Pochontas ancestry."
Personally--I would have rather had him be more firm with what he knew was the truth. Now we have the DNA study which shows for those who can read numbers, the majority of people claiming Pochontas is in their family trees are wrong.
The "F" letter which appear in the set of DNA results come from the book by Todd Bolen. I would not trust the information given by said researchers. Most claim Pochontas ancestory.
I am really only interested in Group Three named after Benj. Bolling b. 1734, d. 1832, his numbers match my oldest known Bowling ancestor John (husband to Elizabeth).
Starting with Reeves Bowling/Bolen b. 1 Dec 1818, d. 1864 his son
John W. Bolen his son
Wm. R. bolen his son
Harold Jean Bolen (family historian) his son
Wm. H. Bolen Kit #3746
I still am looking for documentation to support H.J. Bolen's statements about the siblings of Reeves' in NC, but DNA test are matching the other known son of John & Martha (Mangum) Bowling. The share a common "Y" marker.
Willis Bolling b 1791, d. 1881, two kits #2207 Thomas Benton Bowling and #106892 Phil Bowling.
Joseph Bolling b. 1801, this kit #1947 Franklin Bowling & kit #33587 James Wesley Boulden
So the two kits for Willis, Joseph match the one kit # supplied by descendant of Reeves Bowling/Bolen of Henderson Co. TN.
I was the first Bolling researcher to have found the land deeds of John Bowling in NC made his mark with side ways "B" and his wife Elizabeth with "E". These deeds stated that they removed to York Co. SC and the same marks have been found by researchers in York Co. SC. I made copies of the NC records, but never heard back from them to send their copies. Some day I will get around to ordering those deeds. HOWEVER many Kit # under heading of Benj. Bolling 1734-1832 show the same numbering pattern as the five above.
You can go down the listing I believe well over 15 of his descendants send in sample, which is why I guess Group Three called by his name.
I did notice Kit #23413 list oldest ancestor as Thomas Bouldinge of Swan, that is wrong they have their own group 2. In Todd Bolen's book Fh665
There is also a test kit #93570 links Baxter Bolling with said John & Benjamin Bolling/Bowling
Those who thought our Bolen of Henderson Co. TN might have been descendant of Pochontas are wrong and other theory (before DNA) the other old Bolling Line of VA--Thomas who came over on the "Swan". They too have their own group and we do not belong.
This DNA test shows us going forward from NC we will want to find at least: John, Benj. & Baxter together.
The Fairfax Public Library has some good books dealing with, Pr. George, St. Mary & Charles Co. MD land deeds. What I want to see, if I can find John Bowling's mark in some of those records.
At this point in time I have no idea if he married in NC or some other location.
I have not got around to going through Todd Bolen's book and marking in the numbers for each entry. That should clearly show who my group of Bolen are not related.
I've been trying to find any shred of evidence that there is Indian ancestry on my mom's side as had been claimed by a number of different relatives there.
The closest I've gotten so far to any ancestors being listed as something other than 'white' is in the Hartless family where several early members were listed as 'Mulatto'. Still doesn't actually prove Indian ancestry but it had been said that Indians in Virginia were reclassified as 'Mulatto'. Need a solid documentation to illustrate that though.
Family Tree DNA and perhaps others have DNA study running for Melungeon Group.
If you can get useful data from them is another question. I am not going to look into it for my Bolen Family until I find the maiden name of Elizabeth wife of John Bowling of Granville Co. NC.
My Family Tree DNA Path Finder results is showing matches with the above two researchers (they from the same line) and my line from Reeves Bolen's youngest son Sion M. Bolen.
We know a descenant of Reeves's oldest son John did Y DNA test and I will be looking to see if one will do said Path Finder to confirm the children of Reeves Bolen as being his.
This test on Family Tree DNA shows matches with: McKay (stated from Scotland), Snyder, Lehew, Ship, Branson, Mangrum & King.
According to Family Tree Family Path Founder, John Wm. Mayberry given as cousin of mine. He posted ancestry from Bolen, Cozart, Holmes & King. Fuzzell was given as grandmother.
I happen to know he desecends from Reeve Bolen from his daughter Aeriadna J. Bolen married T. Holmes. My line from her youngest brother Sion M. Bolen.
So because we both submitted our DNA samples we can confirm those two lines are descendants from Reeves Bolen.
Well I guess The Bolling Association holds no ill will towards the book compiled by Todd Bolen & Lois (Bolen) Stange which supplied to the public all the incorrect information about the Bollings of VA.
The numbers found on the web site first column Fh419 & Fh419 are the same numbers they assigned to which Bolen man found in Todd Bolen's book. Nothing to do with D.N.A test by the lab.
His book was arranged by first name of the various Bolen etc...men. So now you can look in his book and the Bolen who claiming to be descendants of Robert Bolling, the D.N.A. clearly shows they are not.
One problem I have found with DNA test samples, people turning in their sample with the wrong oldest known ancestor.
We must state our oldest known ancestor only using well documented information and not what they have found on line or someone else has told you.
Found on line The Bolling DNA Site has three sets which the numbers show they should be under Group 3 (my group), but they are naming as their oldest known ancestor man found in Group 2.
Kit #1926 & #895 as Wm. Bowling & his wife Penelope A. Cooper Fh743. From the Bolling line Thomas of "Swan".
Kit #23413 Thomas Boulding Fh665 came over on the "Swan"
Who their real ancestors were-- I have no idea, but not as stated.
L.D.S. #829887 Berkeley Co. VA Land Deeds, Book 18, page 6, dated 1801, probated 26 Jul 1802, couple Robert Bowling & his wife Polly living in Fairfax Co. VA sells to Joseph Plummer for $20 1/2 of lot in the town of Bath in Berkeley Co. VA, known as NO79.
It being the same conveyed by John Wire & his wife Elizabeth to Samuel Bowling (dec'd).
I have not tried to place this relationship Samuel to Robert in Todd Bolen's book nor DNA project.
Since I am looking for my group of Bowling in MD, could be a relationship between the ones in Fairfax Co. VA.
My great-grandmother had a book (only book I have that belonged to her) dealing with Mary Ball, mother of George Washington, because she was "told" by her family members we were related to that Ball Family.
Mike Ball of DNA Project, did response to my request for the Haplogroup for Col. Wm. Ball, ancestor of the said Mary Ball, it is I l.
I got real lucky that a distant Ball cousin of mine-- descendant of Osborn Ball, brother to my John Ball, father of John Washington Ball was also tested "is Rlblb2 or the shorthand notation R-M 269"
A million thanks out to that man !! Don't know his name.
He said that another profile fits the above but he did not additional information about the documented blood line.
It would be nice to have other closer relations tests, but this is a very good start.
I also found another interesting D.N.A site for Mangum Family. They have posted the results for a Mangum man whose marker shows The Duke Marker, for men living in Granville/Orange Co. NC. And they posted they did not WHY !!
I e-mail the web master, but my reponse was returned.
I think I know why the Mangum man is showing a Duke marker. My distant cousin Mary Carrington (daughter of John) was married to Arthur Mangum Jr. and while he was on "his death bed" had an affair with Wm. Duke living the next farm over. They had a son named Green A. Mangum born 1811 and he married but I have no record of the names of his children. Wm. Duke in his will acknowledge that he could have been his son. This is a matter of public record, his will filed in Orange Co. NC. I guess he really was !!!
In any case I will continue to pick away at this D.N.A test results (then I can get a hold of it) trying to apply it to the documentation which I have compiled.
I thought it was Family Tree DNA they were going to try to place the D.N.A of "famous persons" in their data bank. If that's is true that really would help to solve some of these family tales.
I wonder if they have the D.N.A. of President Zachary Taylor to compare to all those present day Taylor researchers who claim descend from him.
I do not.
I have send an e-mail to Family Tree asking the location on their web site where I can find the test results of various surname in their data base.
I just google President Z. Taylor and one of the items
Wikipedia List of Hapolgroups of Famous People
Zachary Taylor, Abraham Lincoln Wm. McKinley & Woodrow Wilson all had R1b1c
Prince Philip of Britain is "H"
From what I rather from some of postings on line about Taylor DNA Project they stated they were not sure if D.N.A. President Zachary Taylor exist. So it would appear we have a mis-match of information.
The sample of my Taylor Family is rather small, so I would have to be very lucky to get a hit.
Since I found out my Taylor line in 1988 I did not grow up with any Family Tales. Most Taylor researchers doing research in VA think they are related to President Zachariah Taylor & John Madison.
I found the maiden name for Samuel A. Rudd's wife living in NE at the local L.D.S. library, before that time no one in my mother's family had any idea as to her Family Name. Since that time I found the records to take her male line back to a Taylor in SC who I think descends from the Taylors of Barbados to SC.
SC--The first colony was established in The Ashley River in the southeastern part of the state in 1671. The Settlers were a group of English people direct from the Old World and another group, the members of which had been living on the Barbados Islands. They called their settlement Charles Town.
1. Wm. Taylor b. c1727 SC, d. Wolf Creek, Logan Co. KY, had at least four sons
2. Chapman Taylor b. c1748 SC, m. Julia Ann, d. 1823 AL. He was with SC Militia (Rebel Side) during American Revolutionary War
3. Joshua Taylor b. 1791 GA, m. Mary E. Cooksey, d. 23 Aug 1850 Union Co. KY
4. Aaron Taylor b. 1813 Russellville, Logan Co. KY m. Nancy Gist, d. 1857 Morganfield, Union Co. KY. Gist Family can count themselves among The First Families of TN. At least the name is on a monument. Number of her male relations fought in the American Revoluntary War. Another one of her relations (half Cherokee) make up The Cherokee Alphabet.
5. Mary Ann Taylor b. 1838 m. Samuel A. Rudd, d. 1926 Morganfield, Union Co. KY, they were my gr-gr-grandparents.
There is absolutely no reason to think any of my above Taylor Family never lived in VA. They lived in SC, GA to KY. Chapman removed with his son and died in AL.
What I am looking for males who belong to this family to be tested. Since R1b1c is a rather common Haplogroup might need a test above the 12 marker test. I hope for another letter, I have enough "R" in my family tree lately.
I have been informed that I made an mistake about Osborn Ball,he was not the brother of my John Ball, but belonged to a group living in NC.
Then I was informed by James Ball (claims descendant from the Ball Family of Middlesex Co. VA) submitted his DNA profile #188818 filed as a descendant of Wm. Ball of Essex Co. VA died 1695/6. He claims he was the father of Edward Ball of early Middlesex Co. VA. His Haplogroup same as the above Osborn Ball, but no match with the numbers.
He used as the source for the parentage of Edward Ball from the secondary source a book by Ronald Ames Hill, this book is on net through L.D.S. system.
After looking at this work, the author has supplied no original records supporting the parentage between Wm. to Edward Ball. "Recent research, however, suggests Edward is the son of Wm. Ball..."
I realize that people have submitted information to various computer banks sometimes using their best guess, but I did hope people would only submit their DNA sample under a name which they were sure was their ancestors. I guess I was wrong.
I will continue to hope that one of the brother's male descendants of my great-grandmother's Lena (Ball) Shipp will be interested enough in genealogy to submit a sample.
I plan to order land deeds of Culpeper Co. VA, so I can locate the farm of John Ball.
Looking for my distant Ball cousins who might be interested in submitting a D.N.A. sample.
Years ago I found the grave marker of Booten French Ball with his parents and brother-in-law at C.S.A. cemetery in Manassas, VA.
Since, he was buried without a wife, I wrongly assumed he was single. However, I have found him on the later Federal Census in Pr.Wm.Co.VA. with wife Alma F. and children. It would appear they had two sons: Clifford D. Ball & Clay W. I did find the marriage record for Clifford D. Ball on the Pr.Wm.Co.VA Marriage Registry. Information found on this record "Clifford D.Ball age 22 years, born & living in Pr.Wm.Co.VA, parents Booten Ball & Alma F. Mohler, shipping clerk, married 22 Jun 1929 to Aileen H. Shifflet 19 years, born College Park, MD, living in Manassas, VA, parents David Shifflet & Ivan? Kane"
His brother Murray Lewis Ball, his marriage record in Pr.Wm.Co.VA, living in Fairfax Co. VA list his name as Murray E. Ball, parents John W. & Mary E. Ball married 23 Jan 1907 to Lillian Breen 22 years, parents John J. & Fannie Breen.
I can't seem to find them on the census. Both brothers of my great-grandmother Moslena/Lena (Ball) might have living male Ball descendants.
She had other brothers: Gideon (have not found a death record), John Jackson (have not found a death record), Miller (died @2 years) & Washington (have not found a death record).
As far as I can tell, no one else has the above information about these two men on the net.
I found the family group for Murray L. Ball & his wife Lillian E. (Breen) living in Bladensburg, Co. VA for 1930 census: Murray 45, Lillie E. 45, Odie R. 18, Charles A. 11, Minnie R. 9.
According to "The Ball Family of Carter's Run" they had two other sons: Milford G. Ball born c1907. Their second son Lewis R. Ball & his wife Marjorie living next to his parents. He 20 years of age, she 17 years of age.
Also living in the same household: Peyton A. Edwards 50 (Uncle of Murry L. Ball) and Mary E. Ball 78 (mother of Murray).
Years ago I send for the death certificate of Mary Ella (Edwards) Ball stated she died 56th V St. NW Washington, DC, the information given by Mrs. C.A. Stretton (Carrie Shipp) grandaughter. Stated she had lived in that location for 10 years, she died 1934. So would appear to be a conflict with the information supplied on her death record.
According to Murry Ball marriage record he was born in Culpeper Co. VA and living in Fairfax Co. VA at the time of his marriag 23 Jan 1907 married in Pr.Wm.Co.VA to Lillian Breen. I can't seems to find him on the 1910 nor 1920 census.
Ancestry, com has my great-grandmother indexed as:
Lena Snepp 51 born VA, her daughter Laraine Snepp 12, her daughter Carrie A. Stretton 32, son-in-law Marshall A. Stretton 39, her two nephews: Clarence Alexander 34 & Wernera Ben 21. I think the last two men should have the surname Rosenberger and were the sons of Abraham & Mary Alice (Ball) Rosenberger. Said Mary A. sister to said Lena (Ball) Shipp.
The Rosenberger were buried at Baptist Church of Jeffersonton, Culpeper Co. VA.
Heritage Quest has John Ball indexed as John Bull for 1900 census. His family lived in Centreville listed as being a farmer.
The public library has the land deed for Fairfax Co. VA I plan to see if they go down to 1900.
Some of the dates given on this census do not match some of the other dates I have gathered from other census, birth & death registries:
John Ball Jul 1839 60 years, married 31, wife Ella Oct 1849 50 years, had nine children seven? alive (think she had 12 children), daughter Bessie Jan 1875 24 years, son Booten Aug 1879 20 years, son Murray Aug 1886 13 years, daughter Florence Jun or Jan 1888 13 years, living with them his son-in-law Mittias (sic) Shipp Dec 1875 24 years married 7 years, his wife their daughter Lena Nov 1877 22 years, had two children two alive, Walter Nov 1896 3? (my grandfather) & Carrie Nov 1898, taken 4th Jun 1900.
I have five films to read today at the public library: Rapphannock Land Deeds, Culpeper Wills & Culpeper Land Deeds.
1900 Fairfax Co. VA census stated that John & Mary Ella (Edwards) Ball had nine children could be nine alive for year 1900.
Their children who I know were alive in 1900: Mary Alice (living with her husband in Culpeper), Alma Watson (living with her huband in Fauquier Co. VA), Bessie, Lena (married), Booten, Murry & Florence.
I know of five other children-- first two could be alive in 1900: Gideon (living in DC boarder saleman of dry goods) & John Jackson (have not been able to locate him), two others I have death records: Miller died 1882 Fauquier Death Registry & Wertie died 1884 Culpeper Co. Death Registry, Washington Ball listed on Culpeper Birth Registry born 1885, he does not show up on later census, I assumed died young.
So I know they had 12 children, she (or the person who supplied the information to census taker) could have just forgotten about the three children: Miller, Wertie & Washington who died as young children.
Where Gideon & John Jackson Ball lived I do not know.
In any case, the information given on the 1900 census about the number of their children is not correct.
Found State of VA Reel 220 #1328 his death certificate. Some of the information does not match what I have found on line through "Find a Grave" or census . Since I started with very little about the children of John W. & Mary Ella (Edwards) Ball, very piece of information is useful.
Certificate of Death filed in Jeffersonton, Culpeper Co. VA: Gideon H. Ball male, white, marrried, born 11 Aug 1869 in Fauquier Co. VA, wife's name given as Katherine Bloomer, age of death 63 years, 5 months, 16 days, was retired Bookkeeper worked for Hugh? Riley Paint Co. of Washington, DC for 35 years, father John W. Ball born in Rappahannock, VA, mother Ella Edwards born VA, informant Mrs. G.H. Balll of Jeffersonton, VA, buried Washington, DC on 30 Jan 1933, cause of death found dead in his stable thought to be from Cerebral Hemorrhage or heart failure.
A GOLDEN FILM FAIRFAX CO. VA MARRIAGES--found three marriags: Booten F. Ball, Bessie Ball & Florence Ball. I have pieces of additional information about these three people from later census. You can find the same on internet.
"BOOTEN F. BALL 22 years, born in Fauquier Co. VA, living in Fairfax Co. VA, parents J.W. & Mary E. Ball married 5 Mar 1902 to Alma H. Mohler 19 years, born & living in Fairfax Co. VA., parents C.J. & Sallie Mohler, married by D.L. Blakemore" You can find her parents and siblings on earlier & later census. Her mother the first wife of said Claucus J. & Sallie. She must have died before Oct 1893, last child born. Said C.J. & his first wife S.J. with their first son Frank S. age one, living with his parents John W. 56 years of age and his wife M.E. 48.
"Ira C. Wells 26 years, born & living in Fairfax Co. VA, parents John T. & Elizabeth Wells, married in home of bride in Centreville on 29 Dec 1903 to FLORENCE BALL 17 years, born in Rapphannock Co. VA, living in Fairfax Co. VA, parents J.W. & Ella Ball, married by J.C. Hawk". You can find Ira on earlier census with his parents in Fairfax Co. VA census 1880 and he and Florence on 1910 with their two children, by 1920 Centreville, Fairfax Co. VA, said Florence died and Ira living with their three children: Raymond, Carlos & Murray. "We" had in the family notes said Florence had married Mr. Wells, first name missing and place of marriage not known. There is a marriage listed in Fairfax Co. VA "Implied Marriages" John T. Wells & Elizabth Kincheloe, will try later to see if I can find him listed on Fairfax Co. VA birth registry. We have cemetery books for Fairfax Co. VA, will try in future to see if Florence (Ball) Wells is listed. Found on 1880 Centreville Fairfax Co. VA census: John T. Wells 46, A.E. 36, Eva 16, Edward 14, John 11, Omes? (male) 8, Ira 5, Virginia 2, Susan Wells his mother 70 years.
"George P. Thombley 25 years, born & living in Fairfax Co. VA, parents S.P. & Mary Thombley married in bride's house in Centreville, Fairfax Co. VA on 5 Jun 1901 to BESSIE A. BALL 25 years of age, born in Fauquier Co. VA, living in Fairfax Co. VA, parents J.W. & ........?, married by D.L. Blakemore." I am have a "devil" of the time finding his surname in VA census.
I did not find Florence (Ball) Wells listed in the cemetery books at the Fairfax Public Library. Some cemetery for Centreville are listed but if she is buried in this town, they did not include the right cemetery. I plan to visit the location "poke" around.
Also want to check out the town of Milford Mills in Prince Wm. Co. VA, the location of Virginia Lee Shipp's birth. My guess is that this is the location where my grandfather Walter Eugene Shipp's four siblings were born & died.
We had in the family notes the surname of Bessie A.'s huband was spelled as Thombley and that is what it looked like on the marriage registry.
HOWEVER, the name would appear on census as TWOMBLY. for 1900 Providence, Fairfax Co. VA the household: Stephen Twombly born Sep 1842 born in Maine married 30 years, wife Mary born Sep 1845 had seven children five alive as of 1900, Mamie Aug 1871, George P. Jan 1876 (future husband of said Bessie A. Ball), Stanley M. born Sep 1878, Nellie Feb 1880, Joseph Sep 1882.
I can find the surname on earlier Maine census.
I can find George P. Twombly and his wife Bessie A. (Ball) on later census, it would appear they had at least three children. They might have died in Fairfax Co. VA will check cemetery listing at a later date.
Found State of VA Death Cerificate #26388 "Ira Carlton Wells male, white, widower, spouse was Florence Wells, age 46, merchant, born in Bull Run? Fairfax Co. VA, father J.H. Wells, mother Elizabeth Kenchela? both born VA, died 16 Dec 1921 of Angina, buried 18 Dec 1921, Sudley Church of Manassas, VA" informant S.A. Gheen
It is from Godfrey's son Frederick Shipp census information which gave us the birth place of his father as being VA and his mother in VA.
However, the earliest known legal location for Godfrey Shipp would be 1800 Emmitsburg, Frederick Co. MD. Right on the line with PA. Another census record for his eldest son John Shipp (born 1801) states he was born in MD. He was my direct ancestor.
The 1800 Emmitsburg, Frederick Co. MD only has two males: 1 male under 10 and male as 10-15, which makes me wonder if the census was marked correctly. Older female 26-44. I do not see films in L.D.S. library collection which would be helpful tryng to figure out this family group. Will have to check public library later in the week. Surname indexed as Shipps, first name Goofsey? on Ancestry.com 1800 census.
As of 1810 the family was living in Hampshire Co. VA/WV and I am finding records for him in Shenandoah Co. VA (lived at Stoney Creek) as of 1818, where he died around 1830 census. The will book by Amelia C. Gilbreath only abtracted the wills found in those county books. I will start pulling that information into book form when I finish with land deeds.
The book by Ralph D. Shipp of CO, made the incorrect statement (which is all over the net) that all Shipp Families in VA were offspring of Wm. Shipp of early Norfolk, VA. Another researcher has proven Joshua Shipp (Ralph D. ancestor) was his own emigate and not directly related to said Wm.
When he compiled his book, D.N.A. testing really was not done. Now this is not the case a complete study could show if these various Shipp men were indeed related.
I have legal evidence that Godfrey had a brother named Jacob Shipp who it would appear traveled with him. There was a Frederick Shipp could be his father or older brother, but I lack evidence they were related. Godfrey did name a son Frederick, could be evidence or not. I just need evidence where they lived before Frederick Co. MARYLAND.
I am beginning to doubt that my group of Shipp were related to the other Shipp Families of Norfolk into NC and other parts of the south & west.
Another researcher has suggested that my Ship/Shipp was Shipe, but I have not seen evidence of that thought. I know the Shipe Family came down from PA into Shenandoah Co. VA.
I am only pulling information on my direct line of Shipp.
After studying my Shipp problem with a librarian at L.D.S. (a German Researcher), given the oldest known location of Godfrey Shipp as being in Emmitsburg, Frederick Co. MD.
We started thinking over the issue of his movements, if it were likely he removed from Norfolk or Essex Co. VA into that part of MD.
After looking over PA arrivals of passengers, we found a listing of Palatines imported in the ship Molly, Capt Olive, sailed out of Rotterdam:
John Frederick "X" Shipp age 22, and he took an oath at court house in Philadelphia, PA on 17 Oct 1741.
I have other bits and pieces of information found in Frederick Co. MD which I need to put into focus. "We" think my Godfrey Shipps found on 1800 Frederick Co. MD was an orphan living with younger brother Jacob and their mother (name I do not have). There was a Godfrey Ship who died in Frederick Co. VA c1782, need to look at those papers.
As it stands now, all that work trying to connect my Shenandoah Co. VA Shipp Family with the Shipp Family of early Norfolk Co. VA, was in vain. They are not related at all.
In the ship with John Frederick Shipp, a Herman Sowers 47 years of age as of 1741. So I guess I will be looking for our Sower/Sowers in the same location in Germany.
Other compiled sources has John Frederick's surname spelled as Schipp, so think I will have the problem with spelling in compiled sources.
There was also a Shupp family living in Washington Co. MD at the same time as mine in Frederick Co. MD.
I still think the surname/family Shipe was a different family.
Now that I know the earlier generations of my family, had it wrong about the family being English and now I know they were German.
I began to question-- why I could not find the marriage record for Godfrey's son John Shipp. I was looking in Frederick Co. MD.
Listed in the notes of my grandfather have these two entries:
"John Shipp to Elizabeth Lewis line #108 page 43 Aug 20 1818"
"Jacob Shipp to Eliza Hoffman 110 Jul 18,1819"
Either my grandfather or one of his uncle visited the court house in Shenandoah Co. VA and recorded the two entries.
If the actual registry really has the name as Ship, Shipp or Shipe, I will order the film later through public library.
The compiled book by John Vogt has the above two men's marriages as:
"Ship, Jacob to Elizabeth Coffman 19 Jan 1819, bondman Windel Coffman". I have found land deed division in Shenandoah Co. VA, named spelled with "C" not "H".
"Shipe, John to Elizabeth Lewin 17 Aug 1818, daughter of James & Mable"
Two problems now arise, is the said John Shipe really my John Shipp and was his wife member of Lewis (as we have been told) or LEWIN.
Furthermore, I was given the parentage of Elizabeth Lewis as Garland S. & Anna (McCauley) Lewis, by the branch of the family who descended from sister of my John. How others would get this so wrong, is beyond me. Where did they come up with Garland S. Lewis if the name really should be James Lewin and Mable for Anna McCauley.
In any case, the parentage of John's wife I will have start to look for them in Shenandoah Co. VA and not in Frederick Co. MD. According to 1810 & 1820 I have found men by the name of LEWIN but not Lewis.
Found on line information about the 11 children of Samuel & Mable T. Hunt, most I can verify from records found in Shenandoah Co. VA and Warren Co. VA.
And as I am abtracting and compiling into book form land deeds of Shenandoah Co. VA I will find more about Samuel Lewin.
The piece of information I can not verify, as of now, the maiden name of Mable was given as HUNT of Loudoun Co. VA. The marriage they say took place in that location, not found in John Vogt's book.
I will check land deeds at the public library c1782 for Loudoun Co. VA. Only two men Stephen & Thomas Hunt found on tax list 1782.
I do not think this group of Hunt the same as my Hunt Family of early King Wm. Co. VA.
L.D.S. 2079936 Rockingham Co. VA Marriages from Vol 1, page 66, marriage of
John SHIPP (sic) 70 years of age, widower, born in Frederick Co. MD, living in Rockingham Co. VA, parents Godfrey & Elizabeth, collier, married 16 Feb 1871 in Rockingham Co. VA by Issac Long to Martha A. MILLER 49 year of age, widow, born & living in Rockingham Co. VA, parents Garland S. & Anna MCCAULEY"
So her maiden name was McCauley and not living with her parents for the 1850 Rockingham Co. VA, assuming she married before that time. The index at the library only covers 1865 to 1900.
I have no idea who mixed together the names of John Ship first wife Elizabeth LEWIN not Lewis and the parents of his second wife Martha A. (McCauley) Miller as
"John Shipp married to Elizabeth Lewis her parents Garlands S. Lewis & Anna McCauley", but this is what is printed in Ralph D. Shipp of CO. "The Shipp Family History."
Small piece in the book by John W. Wayland "Virginia Valley Records" dealing with Rockingham Co. VA, found on line.
"Rev. Isaac Long before, during and after the Civil War, was a man of prominence in the Mill Creek Valley. He married Miss Sauffley and had, among other children, David, Benjamin, John, Wm. & Daniel. Rev. Isaac Long was for many years a leader in his church (Dunker), not only in the Mill Creek section, but also in Rockingham county. He was a man of sound judgment, the strickest integrity and was known and loved by all who came in contact with him."
I do not know if said Rev. Isaac Long was Martha A. McCauley (or her first husband's minister) or John Ship/Shipp minister.
I can see the Shipp became Baptist by this generation, but members of Dunker Church, will look for more evidence.
I thought I have found the maiden name of John Ship/Shipp first wife Elizabeth.
The original marriage bond the signature of John Shipe looks just like my John Ship found on three signatures he wrote on his daughters marriage records in Rockingham Co. VA. This being the marriage bond between John Shipe & Elizabeth Lewin filed in Shenandoah Co. VA.
However, yesterday I ran across the Death Certificate of John W. Shipe filed in Warren Co. VA, buried in Prospect Hill Cemetery as a SHIPE. His parents given as John Shipe & Elizabeth Lewin. According to the 1850 Warren Co. VA either John was dead or no longer with his wife and children. And said Elizabeth Shipe living next to her brother Wm. Lewin.
I have been through all the films which contain early Shenandoah Co. VA Marriages and only found John Shipe & Elizabeth Lewin and there were two other John Shipe, one make his mark and the other his father's name given as Adam, so I know not my John Ship/Shipp.
If there were really two different couples:
John Shipp & Elizabeth Lewis married 30 Aug 1818 (not found on film) and
John Shipe & Elizabeth Lewin married 17 Aug 1818
Really do not think possible.
Will continue to look for other records found in Shenandoah Co. VA.
If another researcher reading this message wants the copies of the above records, can send me your address and I will pop them in the mail, someone should profit by all my copying of this family records. Also have some other Lewin & Hunt marriage bonds.
Years ago I was given the marriage record of Frederick Shipp & Barbara Frey, location she did not have.
With Frederick Shipp born in PA or MD died before 1800 census in Frederick Co. Maryland. I am intereted in Frey family of MD or PA.
It would appear there are many men to check out.
Also a D.N.A. study sample I am interested in James Frey born 1793 in PA--Rlblb2.
Family seems to be also going back to Germany or Alsace.
It is beginning to look like the ancestry of John Shipp born 1801 in Frederick Co. Maryland and died c1889 in Shenandoah Co. VA, all his blood line were from Germany.
Another researcher as pushed me in examining my records about the parentage of Priscilla Ann Bridges (her marriage records as surname as Bridget).
The marriage record of Priscilla Ann Bridges & Wm. Harvey Ship (sic) I have had for some time. Her parents given as Edmund Bridges & Elizabeth on that record and she is found as their daughter on 1850 Rockingham Co. VA census and 1860 Shenandoah Co. VA. Her parents marriage filed in Page Co. VA given as Edmund Bridges & Elizabeth Sprinkles on 28th Aug 1837. I tried to get the clerk of the court to send me a copy of the original record, but they refused to help. I hope if the compiler saw she was a widow he would have included that fact in the abtraction, but perhaps not.
A Sprinkles researcher state she could not place Elizabeth (born 1805) among her data base for that family and thought she might have been a widow when she married Edmund Bridges.
So now I am looking at a Jacob Sprinkles who married a Eliza Ann Cole 6 Nov 1823 in Rockingham Co. VA. He died about c1830 in Rockingham Co. VA.
With the lack of the records for Rockingham Co. VA, I might have a hard time finding the facts about these people, but I will look for answers among Shenandoah Co. VA records.
State of VA Reel 167 #4652 "Shenandoah Ashby Mt. Jackson Marion Francis Bridges, male, white, widowed, born 11 Oct 1846, age of death 81 years, 4 months, laborer, born in VA, father Edward Bridges born VA, mother unknown, informant Effie Frye, date of death 11 Feb 1928 of nephritis, buried 12 Feb 1928 Woods Chapel Cemetery in Mt. Jackson"
His death record was disappointing, for I had hope that he would name his mother's name. Since he had three sister, I might be able to obtain their death records.
As far as I know his father's name was Edmund not Edward.
In "Shipp Lineage" by Mary Marie Koontz Arrington copy right 1978, page 123 had the marriage listed Frederick Shipp married 25 February 1783 to Barbara Fely (Frey).
When we were living in Rockville, MD about 1985 a woman called me on the phone and told me about the same couple. I do not know if she got the information from the above book or she had another source. In any case, she told me she did not remember where she got the information, but was leaving the county and want to pass along the marriage record.
Well I have been looking for 27 years for the source and place where the marriage did taken place. My Godfrey Shipp did name a son Frederick.
Now I have a good hold on the group of men of early PA I want to trace and said Frederick is not one of them.
The first census of MD for Washington Co. MD has Adam, Frederick & Jacob Shupe. The above Frederick Shupe would be the same man. A Frederick Shupe or Shoop a soldier during the American Revolution from Northampton Co. PA. This location is not an area where my group of Schipp/Ships/Shipp lived. Published book dealing with church records for Washington Co. MD has Shupp listed they were Reformed German. By the 1820's they had removed from this area for Russell Co. VA. I believe later found Shipp in this area and in Franklin Co. PA were in fact part of my group of Shipp from Frederick Co. MD.
The early Shipp researchers really did address the issue of these various different families Shrump/Shupe/Shupp/Shoop, Shue, Shipe and my "Ships" were in fact different families and not the same family with different spelling of the surname.
I now known I am looking for John Frederick Schipp/Shipp of Philadelphia Co. PA and his four sons: Godfrey, John, Anthony & Joseph. Areas of Cumberland Co. PA, Montgomery Co. PA & Frederick Co. MD.
I am looking at three DNA samples which will link together three different branches of the family.
Found a marriage record for Malachias Fisher & Hannah Leech, both single of Abington, bondman JOHN SHIPP & Joseph Ferguson 16 Jan 1776.
According to the German Researcher I am working with, "we" need to find out if John F. Shipp was a member of German Reformed Church (Swiss) or Lutheran (German) Church.
I will be finding out more about said John Frederick Shipp, but it would appear he remained in Philadelphia, PA at least until 1776.
The surname is clearly spelled as Shipp, not Shipe or Schupp.
I think it will turn out that Shipp is a rather common name in Germany.
In the "book" by Klaus Wust Lutheran Zion-Pine Church Records VOL II page I4
Jacob Shipp (brother to my Godfrey Shipp) his wife and three of their children's birth and baptisms recorded among this church records.
And the surname was spelled as SHIPP
Researchers on line state all his "books" must have in your personal library. I would call them pamphlets and I am so glad my public library has copies of his works and I did not spend monies or any more time.
Either my Godfrey was not a member and his brother was, or a lot of the church records have not survived to be copies. Was stated in the the books that Methodist Church was very active in the area.
One point is not to be over looked, the family was German and Lutheran and has no connection with the Shipp Family of Early Virginia.
My late great-aunt Noreen (Shipp) McLeod told me her father Mathias Henkel's midde name was a "Family Name." After spending lots of time and money looking for a earlier marriage between a Shipp & Henkel. Yes--Henkel is a "Family Name" just not found among our family tree. It could be he was name for Dr. Paul Henkel pastor of some of the Lutheran Churchs in the area.
I have been looking for the death date of my great-aunt Carrie A. Shipp. I found the marriage record for her and first husband in Pr.Wm.Co.VA. Marriage second to Huddleton, divorced in FL, buried as Carrie A. Huddleton b. 21 Nov 1897, d. 2 Apr 1970 First Baptist Church Land O Lake, Pasco Co.FL.
This site also has a picture of her mother and step-father in same cemetery.
Lena (Ball) Shipp' first husband M.H. Shipp buried in Pr.Wm.Co. VA, also can be found "Find a Grave". Booton F. Ball buried next to him and I believe a picture of his grave stone as well.
John Shipp 38
Esther Shipp 26 wife
John Shipp 7 son
Jeanett Shipp ....
Homer Shipp 61 widower father
.......................................
Living on 5421 Carolina Street household of
Walter Shipp 44 born in VA
Danely L. Shipp 48 wife should be Daisy L.
Wallace E 16 his son
Evelyn R. 15 his son
Ralph E. 12 his son
Gloria L. 9 his daughter
Thomas M. 6 his son
L.D.S. Lab has DC on line, said Carrie S. Shipp second marriage in DC (divored first husband in Charleston, WVA 11 Oct 1936 in DC to Howard L. Huddleton (first marriage divored in Seattle, WA).
Other members of this family found on line married in DC.
I see that two men have send in samples under the name Shipe. Since they have not been included under Shipley/Schiff/Ship/Shipp (one sample for Shipp) I am assuming they did not match??
I have posted a message under Discussion Forum GenForm--SHIPE.
They do not have any men using the surname Shupp. They left records in Washington Co. MD, next door to Frederick Co. MD.
I am assuming the D.N.A. samples are telling me what I have thought that Shipe & Shipp are two different families just living in the same area of VA.
I have seen by modern compilers they have added "e" to some of my Ship/Shipp entries in compiled sources for Shenandoah Co. VA.
I think it is very likely Shipe & Shipp lived in the same location in Germany and I have seen them in Frederick Co. MD records.
Balser Sower/Sauer found in Frederick Co. MD and then later in Shenandoah Co. VA. There was a Sower on the same ship with John Frederick Shipp.
I have no idea who some of the people are who placed information into their system about Wm. Harvey Shipp & his wife Priscilla A. Bridges.
Wm. Harvey Shipp did not died in Pittsburgh, PA, his father's name was just John Shipp, no middle name William. This couple had 12 children (which can be confirmed from birth, death registries and census) 9 alive for 1910 census.
1. John L. Shipp
2. Milton E. Shipp
3. Socrates B. Shipp
4. Franklin Shipp
5. Samuel C. Shipp
6. Cora A. Shipp died c1879
7. Mathias H. Shipp, my great-grandfather
8. Carry Shipp died c1909
9. Homer B. Shipp
10. Dewitt Shipp died c1900
11. Jacob Harvey Shipp
12. Nannie L. Shipp
Said Cora, Carry & Dewitt died before their parents.
There never existed Murray Shipp b. c1882 m. 1907 Mildred Shipp.
Found on the 1850 Shenandoah Co. VA census dated 26 Sep the household of
John Shipp 49, collier, Elizabeth 50, George W. 17, Harriet 15, Mary 13, Louisa 12, Elizabeth 10, ANNA 7, Wm. H. 5.
For some reason I can't find John on the 1860,1870 or 1880 census. He was married the second time 1871 in Rockingham Co. VA and I have found him listed on Non-Population Schedule 1850-1880 on Elk Run in Rockingham Co. VA.
By 1860 his five eldest children married, but Elizabeth, Anna & Wm.H. could still living with him.
His youngest child according the 1850 census Wm. H. Shipp married 1867 in Shenandoah Co. VA.
I do not know what happened to Elizabeth Shipp, but Anna I now believe was the living with Wm. H. Shipp 1900 Fauquier Co. VA census "Nansey K. Shipp born Nov 1848 age given as 54 across out with 51. I believe should read Nov 1842 age 58. Most likely died before 1910 census.
John Shipp & his wife Elizabeth Lewin had
1. Sarah Shipp b. 23 Sep 1825 Plumb Run, Hampshire Co. VA/WV m. 13 Apr 1854 at Jonathan Shipp's house in Rockingham Co. VA to Jacob H. Grimm, d. 7 Sep 1897. Arrington's book has a copy of her marriage record signed by said John Shipp as his daughter.
2. George W. Shipp b. 1833 VA m. Sarah A.........? can't seem to find them on later census.
3. Harriet Shipp b. 1835 VA, m. 2 Aug 1851 Harrisonburg, Rockingham Co. VA to Joseph Scothern.
4. Mary Shipp b. 1837 VA m. 3 Apr 1854 to George W. Grimm. Arrington's book as a signed note by her father said John Shipp for permittion for their marriage.
5. Louisa Shipp b. 23 Mar 1839 VA m. 22 Apr 1856 to Thomas H. Becks, d. 5 May 1902, buried Mill Creek Cemetery, Rockingham Co. VA. Arrington book has a copy of their marriage bond with note from her father John Shipp
6. Elizabeth Shipp b. 1840 VA the only record I have about her listed on 1850 Shenandoah Co. VA census.
7. Nansey K. "Anna" Shipp born Nov 1842, most likely the same woman living with her brother Wm. H. Shipp for 1900 Fauquier Co. VA, not listed with the family member 1910. I did not see her grave next to her father in Midland Cemetery, Fauquier Co. VA and not listed in compiled book by Baird. I do not think the death registry cover the years she might have died.
8. Wm. Harvey Shipp b. 27 Feb 1844 Columbia Furnace, Shenandoah Co. VA, m. 29 Aug 1867 Shenandoah Co. VA to Priscilla Ann Bridges, d. 5 Dec 1909 Lee District, Fauquier Co. VA, buried in Midland Cemetery, Fauquier Co. VA.
The "Family Story" was he was the baby of the family. His mother would have been 44 year of age at the time of his birth.
I will continue to look for more information about John & Elizabeth (Lewin) Shipp and their children.
The birth place for his first daughter Sarah being in "Plumb Run" in Hampshire Co. VA/VA came from other researchers. Found in Ralph D. Shipp of CO book on page 230. Shenandoah Co. VA is the location at the time of her birth where her parents lived.
Also on page 230 I think this branch of John's family also gave Elizabeth LEWIS parents as Garland S. & Ann (McCally) Lewis. I have never been able to find these people among public & legal documents. Since I have found her maiden name was Lewin and not Lewis, I think they were a "make up" couple.
If the only place a researcher can find a person is in a computer bank, but can't find the person or name in public records, then it should dawn on all of us that "make up" information is in circulation.
I do not think I will never be able to find out who started this information.
It is sad, but if you are depending on other research, you might be passing around false information. Unless you have personal researched a family group and have inter-locking documents, you can not have a true picture of your ancestors.
Found in Ancestry.com computer bank about 50 people have just traded information about Godfrey Shipp Sr. by "click" information into their family trees.
I have no idea if any of them are descendants of Godfrey Shipp or just hunting for names to put into their data base.
In any case, Godfrey Shipp Sr. was NOT born in VA, most likely in PA or MD, married in Emmitsburg, Frederick Co. VA to a Elizabeth.........?(most likely German), married before 1801, first son John born in MD, removed to Plum Run in Hampshire Co. VA/WV @1805, down to Shenandoah Co. VA by 1818. They were members of the local Lutheran Church. I have already found his brother Jacob Shipp's children in Lutheran Church Records.
Godfrey Sr. had the following children:
1. John, no MIDDLE NAME
2. Jacob
3. Godfrey Jr., he was the one who had a daughter named Catherine
4. Henry
5. Frederick
6. Mary
7. Lettice
8. Wm.
9. Jonathan
the above people are joined together by census, marriage records, birth & death registries.
According to a letter from my grandfather Walter Eugene Shipp's uncle there was another daughter who married Mr. Henry and they had a son James Henry I have not been able to confirm.
One of the researchers responsed to my comments about her data, "Why would your grandfather make up information." She did not want to answer the question if she personally researched the material!.
I answered her question with another question "Why do researchers take other computer files into their data base, without questioning the information?"
Why do researchers deny this family was a German Family and not English ? I have no idea. There was in the US anti-German feelings starting with WWI to WWII. My grandfather wanted his surname to be a English Family with "Coat of Arms" and influence and money in State of VA.
I realize that some of the 58 pedgree sites the authors might not be around to edit or change their information. The reason I posting my messages is in the hope further researchers might stop and think before they click the information into their files.
Ancestry.com is using data base called "U.S. and International Marriage Records 1560-1900", this data collected/compiled by a company in Provo, UT sources: Family Group Sheets, FGSE, which means they are not taking the information about the marriages from actual marriage records but from L.D.S. records which have been found in the past to contain errors.
I would not be surprized if this above information came from by parents or my siblings, none of them do actual research. The only copies of orginial records they might have if I gave some to them.
Now people are picking up one entry and they think it is a correct record:
"John Wm. Shipp birth place MD, birth year 1801, name of Spouse Elizabeth Lewis spouse birth place MD, born 1800, marriage 1818 in MD, number of pages 1"
Might look good, but most of the information is wrong, because the people compiling this record did not check the orginial record.
The eldest son of Godfrey Shipp was just John Shipp born in Frederick Co. MD in 1801. The family removed down to Hampshire Co. VA/WV by 1805, he married in Shenandoah 17 Aug 1818 to Elizabeth Lewin, she was from VA not MD.
McKay researchers have the mess about people posting the ancestry of Robert Mackay as the son of Hugh MacKay of Scotland and his wife Ann Brown's incorrect ancestry.
Now, a researcher has placed the wrong parentage about Godfrey Shipp of Frederick Co. MD. They have connected him with the family of Wm. Shipp & Sally M. Doudge of Norfolk Co. VA.
Their work shows their total lack of knowledge about general history and the known facts surrounding Godfrey Shipp.
Godfrey Shipp and his brother were members of various Lutheran Churches where the main language was German. How in the world would a researcher connect them with a English Family of Norfolk Co. VA??
Well over 50 researchers have placed Godfrey Shipp's birth place as Shenandoah Co. VA, well that the location he died not where he was born.
He was listed on 1800 Frederick Co. MD, married in that location and his first son born 1801 and next two sons born in MD, removed @1805 to Plum Creek in Hampshire Co. VA/WV then down to Columbia Furnace in Shenandoah Co. VA where he had 50 1/2a on Stoney Creek by 1818.
People should have these facts in hand when posting their information on line. Godfrey Shipp had ZERO connection with the other Shipp of Early VA, for his family was still in PA or MD !!!
I hope people have some sense when viewing other people's trees in Ancestry.com all must pass the "smell" test. It should made sense !!
Interesting item found on Ancestry Tree.com entry, one researcher's ancestor Casper Schipp born 1792 in Nassau, Deggendorf, Bavaria, Germany removed with his family to East Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
The family members later changed the surname to Ship or Shipp.
I am glad to finally find a researcher who states his family is German.
State of VA Reel 212 #8621 "Jane E. Huff filed in Chapel Clarke Co. VA, female, white, widow, 81 years of age, housewife, birth place Jefferson Co. WVA, father George Coffman born in Jefferson Co. WV, mother .........Shipp born in Jefferson Co. WVA, informant John E. Frank of Berryville, VA, undertaker John H. Enders of Berryville, VA, date of death 22 Apr 1932 of Cerebral Embolism & pneumonia"
I am trying to place her mother ..........Shipp if connected with my group of Shipp. Shipp family did have marriages with Coffman family.
Found on 1930 Chapel District of Clarke Co. VA: John E. Frank 47 and his wife Rosa 54 years both born in WVA, living with them mother-in-law Jane Huff 89 years born in WVA.
Researcher has placed information Genealogy.com. Has her husband as Townsend Huff and a different set of children and does not have her parentage, nor daughter Rosa.
Found on "Fine a Grave" and site by Rockingham Historical Society listing of grave found The Shipp Family Cemetery east of Elkton. The family of James Albert Shipp (1841-1916) his wife and children buried in this location.
This James A. Shipp was not related to the "my" Shipp Family. The oldest known Godfrey who died in Shenandoah Co. VA c1830.
One of said Godfrey's son Wm. Shipp removed down to Rockingham Co. VA and he and his wife and children buried in Mountain View Cemetery in said county.
Since my John removed down to Rockingham Co. VA to marry his second wife I am still looking for the location of his death.
James A. Shipp lived in Madison Co. VA before removing to Rockingham Co. VA.
Found on State of VA Reel 21 death certificate for Solomon SHEPP who died 1 Apr 1914 in Rockingham Co. VA, widower born in VA Jan? 1 1824, occupation cooper, father George Shepp born in Germany, mother ..........Helish? born in Germany.
Just as my John Shipp removed to Rockingham Co. VA and starting using two "PP" in his name, this family appears in the same locatio.
My great grandfather Mathias H. Shipp spend time in Pittsburgh, PA his daughter Noreen was born in this location in 1903.
Three of his brothers: Socrates B., Milton E. & Franklin Shipp also spend time in this location and two of his nephews: Martin L. & Wm. T. sons of John L. Shipp.
I was particularly interested in the posting "Find A Grave", "Shipp, infant, d. 1907".
I am looking for the four children that Mathias & Lena had who died as young children or infants, three by 1910 and one more after 1910 before 1916.
The above Shipp, infant (still born) who died and found on this site, was the grandson of a Matilda R. Shipp. Her death record can also be found L.D.S. site on line Pittsburgh, PA Deaths. This record stated that she was married, but did not give her husband's name. The said infant was buried in her plot with the permission of her children (not named). That information from a film "Day Book" of said grave yard. Can be rented for $7.50 through L.D.S. library system.
I do not think she is related to the other group of Shipp, the family of Conrad Shipp & his wife Mary. You can find them on the census and the rest of the items on "Find of Grave".
If these two other groups of Shipp were related to my group of Shipp founded by John Frederick Schipp of early Philadelphia, PA, I do not know.
Ihave found a "new toy" Newspaper Archives free at local L.D.S center, my first try I found Socrates B. Shipp death reported 25 Jun 1941 in "the Altoona Mirror" of Huntingdon, PA.
I want to do more library work before I make a trip up to Emmitsburg, MD, but I want to check out Elias Lutheran Church & their cemetery. You can find on the net articles about the church and its cemetery.
Stated that "28 years before the founding of Emmitsburg in 1785, there was a Tom's Creek Church. A few Lutheran families in 1757 purchased an acre of land to construct a log church about three miles east of today's Emmitsburg, MD"
I hope the membership rolls do exist so I will find the church Godfrey Shipp was a member.
John Frederick Shipp was a Lutheran in PA, stands to reason the family would continue in MD, after they came down to VA I do not know if they were part of the Lutheran community or they joined the Baptist Church right away.
"Family Oral History" never any mention of the Shipp Family being German or Lutherans. So whole new area of research for me.
L.D.S. 1490399 "History of Emmitsburg, MD" by James A. Helman can be found on line through Internet Archive.
In the beginning of his book the question "Who were the early settlers, and where did they come from, what induced them to settle where they did and the results? Who were the people that settled in Frederick county Maryland. They were Germans."
I will be in the future reading films covering first York Co. PA and working my way back to Philedelphia, PA. We have already found early tax list for Cumberland Co. PA: Anthony, John & Joseph Ships (sic).
Mt. Pleasant is now in Adam Co. PA, not far from Emmitsburg, Frederick Co. MD. General history of said town stated that people came down into that area from York Co. PA.
I have found two Ship men Jacob (carpenter) & John (farmer) living in this PA area 1781 & 1791.
Since my oldest known Shipp Godfrey born 1785 listed on 1800 Frederick Co. MD, most likely he was born in this area of PA.
Still need to find more information about the surname in this area of PA.
L.D.S. Shenandoah Co. VA Marriages found Robertson "X" Hamilton on 16 May 1814 to Elisabeth BOUGH, daughter of Frederick Bough of Isabella Furnace in Shenandoah Co. VA.
Included with marriage bond two notes one from Frederick Bough that he could not go to court to give his approval for his daughter's marriage. He signed the record.
Another note that Godfrey "X" Ship took an oath before the clerk of the court that he saw said Frederick Bough sign the note of approval for his daughter's marriage.
So now I have learned Godfrey made his mark on records and he was in Shenandoah Co. VA by 1814.
The question that came to my mind then I found this record--was some connection between the families of Ship & Bough?.
According to record of another researcher, said Frederick Bough's wife was Mary/Polly SHIP. I will have to see if he is correct and the relationship between the two families.
Just starting reading Hampshire Co. VA Land Deeds found in Book 14, page 320 dated 12 Oct 1805, couple Henry Bough Sr. & his wife Mary Elizabeth of Hampshire sells to Henry Bough Jr. a tract containing 200a with all its appurtenances, situated in Hampshire Co. VA "at the foot of Great Cacachon Mt." line of Michael Whitmyer & ridge of Wm. Anderson, signed in German under his name "In English Henry Bough" and his wife made her mark.
I have seen on line web site stating surname Bough being English, well this group were German.
I still have to make a connection with Frederick Bough who married Polly Ship with said couple.
Said couple living in the same location as Godfrey Ship's 90a purchased on 17th Sep 1805. Book 14, 266-269.
This family-- Bough seem to be following the same path from MD to Hampshire Co. VA down to Shenandoah Co. VA.
Couple of years ago my two sons send in their Y marker test under the name of Bock, their oldest known ancestor Charles Bock of Friedrichshafen, Wurttemberg, Germany a town on Lake Konstanz.
Their first 12 numbers:
13,23,14,11,12,14,12,12,11,13,12,30
Now I have been looking for the person who submitted C.L. Shipp his numbers
13,23,14,11,11,13,12,12,11,13,13,30
I have compared said C.L. Shipp additional numbers with Brandson's set and they are almost the same set of numbers.
A researcher Robert Shipp who stated his ancestor came from England his numbers are not even close to the two men above.
14,11,13,12,13,30,23,11,13,13,12,12
I realize that 80 % of European men test at "R". Does anyone know if your numbers start with a particular set of numbers those people would be from area of Scotland, England, Germany etc.,....
I have to find out who C.L. Shipp was !! I guess the question I am asking is it possible that C.L. Shipp's ancestor was from Germany too.
Looks like a difference of 3/12 with the markers from Shipp and Bock. Not close enough to try to pursue a common ancestor with records (like McKay & Kee (Key)) but I believe close enough to show that they both came from the same region in Europe.
Th Office of Family Tree DNA wrote me 16th Jun 2010 in connection with Brandan's Bock numbers.
"I also see that you are distantly related to people with the last names of Ferguson and Rutledge".
I just e-mail them, "Well no I can't see the Rutledge numbers because they are not made public. The Ferguson has a lot of test samples, but the closest I can find their numbers matching with Bock is five or eight.
The sample of C.L. Shipp is far closer to Bock than Ferguson.
They wanted to know if I wanted to join the above two surname groups and I e-mail-- based on DNA numbers which your office supplied me I want to join SHIPP.
They really need to figure out a way of presenting the test results to the publiic in a way which we can use the information to further our research.
In the section of additional information the researcher is trying to connect their line with English Shipp, which by way of DNA results from English Shipp we know they are not related.
I believe I am closing in on the path that Godfrey Shipp's parents took to Frederick Co. MD. From Phildelphia, PA to Cumberland Co. PA to Frederick Co. MD, we know then he left for Hampshire Co. VA/WV then down to Shenandoah Co. VA where he died.
Found on the Phildelphia, PA tax list 1781-1785 full of names I see living later in Shenandoah Co. VA. Lots of Sowers/Sower men who would later come down directly into Shenandoah Co. VA.
Now that L.D.S. Library charges $7.50 per roll for their film and $4.75 for each micofiche order, might limit what I think I need to read.
Years ago I wrote to State of VA Board of Health and purchased a copy of his record. Found on State of VA Reel 12 #15769 "Filed in Madison District of Shenandoah Co. VA, Godfrey Shipp, male, white married, date of birth 7 Apr 1932, age at time of death 81 years, 2 months, 4 days, farmer, born in Shenandoah Co. VA, father Godfrey Shipp born in Shenandoah Co. VA, mother Mothana Miller born in Shenandoah Co. VA, informant Joseph Barton of Woodstock, VA, date of death 13 Jun 1913, under doctor care from 12 Jun 1913 to 13 Jun 1913, died 9 P.M. of cerebral hemorrhage, signed by F.C. Downey of Edinburg, VA burial Columbia Furnace on 15 Jun 1913, undertaker Joseph F. Ryman of Woodstock, VA"
I have visited years ago his grave in Columbia Furnace Union Church Cemetery, adjoining an active church.
This is a three Godfrey Shipp line: Godfrey Shipp Sr. & his wife Elizabeth, son Godfrey Shipp Jr. & his wife M. Miller their son said Godfrey Shipp III married to Sarah Jane Wetzell.
State of VA Reel 13 #18473 Filed in Madison District of Shenandoah Co. VA Arthur Franklin Sherman male, white, date of birth 13 Jul 1912, age at time of death 1 year, 5 months, 7 days, born in Shenandoah Co. VA, father Frank Sherman born in Shenandoah Co. VA, mother Mollie Shipp born in Shenandoah Co. VA, informant Becca? Larkins of Columbia Furnace, VA, date of death 17 Jul 1913, under doctor's care 1 Jul 1913 to 17 Jul 1913, died 5.30 PM of colitis, signed by D.C. Downey of Edinburg, VA, place of burial Columbia Furnace Cemetery on 19 Jul 1913, undertaker J.F. Ryman of Woodstock, VA"
Said Mollie Shipp daughter of said Godfrey Shipp & his wife Sarah Jane Wetzel.
I just received an e-mail about my Edwards ancestory Gerrard Edwards.
My line from him:
1. Gerrard Edwards b. 1747, d. 1810 Morrisville, Fauquier Co. VA have a copy of his will, named as his wife Jemima and children: Benj., Elijah, Susanna, Milly & Wm. (my line).
2. Wm. Edwards b. 1787 Fauquier Co. VA, d. c1855 Fauquier Co. VA m. Maria Richards, their children: Frances M., Bushrod Payton (my line), James French & Wm. A. Edwards.
3. Bushrod P. Edwards b. 1822, m-1 his cousin Sophia Ann Richards (my line, m-2 Susan L. Rector, d. 1919 Warrenton Co. VA.
4. Mary Ella Edwards b. 1851, m. John Washington Ball, d. 26 Mar 1934 Washington, DC. Their children listed under another posting under children of John W. Ball.
The researcher is looking for the parentage of
Enoch Edwards b. 1804 m. Eliza.........? b. 1814 found on 1850 Fauquier Co. VA census with family of four children. I am guessing they removed out of the State of VA. I would try to find death records in connection with this group.
I have not been able to place this couple in my group of Edwards Family of Fauquier Co. VA.
I believe were several different Edwards Family living in Fauquier Co. VA.
When I first tried to find the ancestry of my Mary Ella I looked at Wesley Edwards & his wife Annsey Gladson, they had a daughter named Mary Julia born 1840, Sarah E. b. 1842, James A. b. 1843, Wm. H. Edwards b. 1844, Nancy Ann Edwards b. 1847, Alex. Marshall b. 1850, Lucy Frances b. 1854, Catherine Roberta b. 1855 & Virginia Anges b. 1858. I believe said Wesley was the son of Franklin Edwards b. c1775 married 12 Jun 1800 in Fauquier Co. VA to Nancy Linton. I have never been able to connect them with my group of Edwards.
If other can help her post a message here. I would hope a well run DNA study of the surname in VA could sort them out from each other.
Abtracted in book by Elizabeth Nickols Lee "King George Co. VA Death Registry"
"Enoch Edwards (m) (w) age 90 years, died 10 Sep 1875, Old Age, born & died in King George Co. VA, father James Edwards, mother Rose Edwards, information given by his son James M. Edwards."
"Ann M. Edwards (f), (w) age 73 years, died 27 Dec 1872, Fits, born in Shiloh, District King George Co. VA, died same county, parents unknown, information given by her husband Enoch Edwards"
I have check State of VA marriages records can be ordered 1786-1863, should cover the years you need.
They also have land deeds for the time period you might need.
Martha--After my trip to library today and finding Enoch Edwards death record in King George Co. VA. I really do not think you would be well service reading through my Fauquier Co. VA. Unless you have other families that lived in this county.
Your Enoch Edwards is found on 1850 Fauquier Co. VA born 1804 with wife Eliza ........? born 1814 with four children. But I can't find him buying and selling land in Fauquier Co. VA. Could be he leased property.
I think you should figure out when and where your Enoch Edwards died and where he was married and if the location is in King George Co. VA. That film is available through State of VA or L.D.S. Library.
Researcher on Ancestry Tree.com by "Jacobs FTM" his tree not available. He has mixed together two different Enoch Edwards.
His birth year for a Enoch Edward b. c1804 (yours I believe) died 1874 King George Co. VA (the other Enoch Edwards). The death date the one I posted.
The researcher has the parents as Elijah Edwards & Elizabeth Rector, who was a member of my group of Edwards. But the death record filed in King George Co. VA the Enoch who died 1874 was the son of James & Rose Edwards and wife of Ann M. Edwards.
I rather doubt the group of Edwards you are seeking were related to my group started by Gerard Edwards. This researcher has just mixed together two different group of Edwards.
Filed in Book A, 417-418 dated Sep 1780 proven Nov 1780, George Edwards living in Hanover TWP of King George Co. VA, named as son JAMES "equal part of my whole estate", given to daughter Jane Frank one shilling sterling and no more of my estate, all "the rest of my estate I lend unto my wife Mildred Edwards after her death to be equally divided between my eight children Nancy, Lucy, George, Winny, Ernold, Joseph, Elizabeth & Susannah, appointed wife and son James Edwards as executors.
You will have to check land deeds to see if the above
1. George Edwards died 1780 King George Co. VA, will named as son
2. James Edwards was the the same James listed in Enoch Edwards death record, did he marry a woman named Rose?
3. Enoch Edwards born 1785 in King George Co. VA, wife Ann M..........? died before husband, d. 10 Sep 1875 in King George Co. VA.
First you must find death record for your Enoch Edwards born 1805. Really do not know if son or nephew of the above Enoch Edwards. Can find him in 1850 in Fauquier Co. VA, where after that ???
1850 & 1860 Slave Schedules for King George Co. VA I think applies to the Enoch who died in 1875 in King George Co. VA.
There are plenty of records available for King George Co. VA to read.
You will need to check out the pedgree chart of Lawrence A. Jones has James Edwards (b. 1750 died 1823 & son of George & Mildred) married to Rosa WREN (b. 1757-1851).
You should be able to confirm his information from marriage records & land deed in King George Co. VA.
Rosa Wren was the daughter of Wm. Wren (goes back more two generations) & Mary STROTHER (1725-1796). Michael has Strother ancestry and believe he has some information posted on his site.
State of VA Reel 226 #18192 "Charles Henry Edwards of The Plains, VA, filed in Fauquier Co. VA Scott TWP "Charles Henry Edwards male, white, widowed, wife Jennie Edwards, age of death 72 years, 6 months, 17 days, date of birth not given, farmer of Tobacco, birth place VA, father Wesley Edwards in VA, mother Jennie Safer born in VA, informant Bradshaw Edwards of The Plains, burial place in Marshall, VA on 30th Aug 1933, death date 28 Aug 1933 of Myocarditis"
According to 1920 Fauquier Co. VA census Scott District family of said Bradshaw Edwards age 28 and his wife Inez 24, their son Charles W. 2 years and his parents Charles H. 58 and Jennie 68 years.
I do not think this group of Edwards are related to my group.
Year ago I wrote to VA Board of Health and received a copy of his death record for $5.50. I have no idea what the state charges now for this record.
Found on State of VA Reel 12 #16900 "John Washington Ball, male, white, married, born 25 Jul 1839, age time of death 73 years, 11 months, 15 days, farmer, born in Rapphannock (first gave Fauquier Co. VA crossed out), father John Ball bornin Rapphannock Co. VA, mother Atheline Pilcher born in VA, informat M.L. Ball of Marshall, VA, date of death 10 Jul 1913, doctor care 30 Jun 1913 to 10 Jul 1913 died 4.30 PM (hard to read) doctor saw him last on 5 Jul 1913, died of Apoplexy, signed by J.E. Rudesill of Marshall, VA, place of burial Manassas, VA on 12 Jul 1913, undertaker James T. Setler of Orlean, VA"
For some reason he has two different grave marker at C.S.A. Cemetery of Manassas right off Rt. 29. This record cost me 25 cents.
I have become aware of possible Mitochondrial DNA sample of my great-grandmother Moslena Ball wife of Mathias H. Shipp. The person or persons involved have not directly come forward with this new information. It might be a clue as to the female emigrate ancestor of my grandfather Walter Eugene Shipp.
I will be seeking out new females who are willing to share this new kind of information. And I will be collecting primary sources for this particular line in NJ.I am only listing issue that might contain female blood lines.
Goal to see if DNA Letter "L" matches up with the documentation.
Starting with my great-grandmother:
1. BALL, Moslena b. 1877 VA, d. 1958 FL m. Mathias H. Shipp they had Noreen E. Shipp (two living persons) & Virginia Lee Shipp (I don't know if she had children or a daughter), her mother
2. EDWARDS, Mary Ella b. 1851 VA, d. 1934 DC m. John W. Ball they had Mary Alice Ball m. A. Rosenberger, Alma Watson Ball m. S. Shipp, Bessie A. Ball m. George P. Twombley, said Moslena Ball m. M.H. Shipp and Florence Shipp m. I.C. Wells, her mother.
Before I started doing genealogy this is the farest back in time "The Shipp Family History" went.
3. RICHARDS, Sophia Ann b. 1826 VA, d. c1866 VA m. Bushrod P. Edwards they only had the said Mary E. Edwards, no other female lines to be tested, her mother
4. FLEMING, Jane b. 1798, d. 1876, m. Thompson H. Richards had: said Sophia Ann Richards m. B.P. Edwards and Elizabeth Jane Richards m. T.A. Ramsey, her mother
5. HULETT, Hannah b. c1771 NJ?, d. VA m-1 Francis Marra, m-2 Thomas Fleming
She & Francis Marra believe had a daughter Margaret, she & Thomas Fleming had said Jane Fleming m. T.H. Richards and Mary Fleming who married Andrew Fleming, her mother.
6. LIPPINCOTT, Anna m. Thomas Hulett, she married after his death Wm. Walker removed to Hampshire Co. VA, according to Chancery Suit Filed in Frederick Co. VA had daughters: Winifred Hulett m. Joseph Berry, Sarah Hulett m. David Marney, daughter married to John Rankin & Hannah Hulett married Francis Marra & second to Thomas Fleming, her mother.
7. RAY, Genet b. c1705 NJ m. Daniel Lippincott d. 1741 NJ, I have a copy of his will, they had: Elizabeth Lippincott m. Francis White, Audria Lippincott & said Anna Lippincott m. in NJ to Thomas Hulett.
On the net a researcher has connected Genet RAY family with the Scottish Family of Robert Rea/Rhea who married Janet Hampton. Said Janet Hampton was the daughter of John Hampton of Scotland & Monmouth Co. NJ. I descend through a son of said John Hampton Sr.
Said Robert Rhea will filed in Monmouth Co. NJ named his children: David, Elizabeth, Catherine, Margaret & Mary.
I do not have the Mitochondrial DNA profile for Janet Hampton, could be "L" but I rather doubt it. In any case, the documents filed in Monmouth Co. NJ would show she was not the mother of said Genet Ray.
I am looking for mixed race mother of Genet Ray. This female blood line is showing "L". I believe I need to go back about three more generations.
If you know of another Mitochondrial DNA connected with the above blood line I would appreciate knowning about it directly. So I can spend my time collecting new information about this blood line.
I have to go back 10 generation to reach Genet Ray. In her husband's will filed 1741 Monmouth Co. NJ was the statement his wife to have all the property she possessed before their marriage. She as his executor took an oath in court to file the necessary papers. So at that time she was not Quaker.
I have been able to find their marriage among the Quaker Records which I know existed about the time they should have been married. I have not found a record when or if Daniel Lippincott left Society of Friends.
I have the necessary land deeds & wills for Monmouth Co. NJ on permanent status at L.D.S. library and there is no record of her possessing property about the time of their marriage. The only male of that surname--Robert Ray/Rhea & his wife Janet Hampton came directly from Scotland. His will does not name her as a daughter.
I know that Daniel's uncle died in Barbados. My theory is that he (Daniel) went down to Barbados and married Genet and returned to N.J.
I have found men of Ray surname living in Barbados. Abram Ray left Scotland for Barbados c1692. John Ray mentioned in the will of Robert Harris as his brother-in-law about generation before Genet. So I know the surname was in Barbados.
The L.D.S. Lab does not have the necessary information on line, so I will have to find time to order the film at a later date.
We do have the issue of "the passing of Genet" into the white community. I think that feat is more likely done in the Barbados. I do not know what the laws about inter-racial marriage in what part of the world. The couple removing to a part of the world where the people did not know she was of mixed blood.
State of VA Reel 167 #3157 Is the death record filed in Marshall Fauquier Co. VA of Mrs. Roberta V. Ball born 28 Feb 1849, age of death 78 years, 11 months, 23 days, housewife, born in Fauquier Co. VA, father Silas Hume born in VA and mother Sarah Hall born in VA, died 21 Feb 1928 of Cerebral hemonhage, buried 22 Feb near Orlean, Fauuqier Co. VA?
Their marriage record found in my Fauquier Co. VA Marriage Book 1854-1880,he was the son of Hezekiah & Mary Ball (he son of David & Sarah MacNeil Ball) and she daughter of Silas & Sarah Hume.
So the death record does give her mother's maiden name.
Found the death certificate for Fantley Ball died Marshall, Fauquier Co. VA 1 Apr 1915, his parents name listed as Osborn Ball born in Fauquier Co. VA and mother Rose Riley born in Culpeper Co. VA.
#8559 on Reel 31.
I did not have Osborn's wife maiden name before finding this document.
This was the statement found in the notes of my late grandfather Walter Eugene Shipp about his great-grandfather John Ball of Jeffersonton, Culpeper Co. VA. He lost all due to the Civil War.
I found on (my birthday 8th Dec) the land deed showing the purchase of his farm in the same location he died in Jeffersonton, VA. Book 14, page 306, dated 14 Sep 1859 Wm. B. Brawner & his wife Fanny A. and Frederick P. Brawner & his wife Sarah A. sold to John Ball for $7880 a tract containing 488a with all its appurtenances, situated in Culpeper Co. VA adjoining the lands of Thomas A. Keith, Jones Green & others. Lying on Rapphannaock Co. VA. I found two references to two roads Foxville Road & Sandy Ford Ford. Said two couples purchased it from the heirs of John M. Young then called "Greenfield". Sold to them in 1 Jan 1857.
Hope in the future to trace the tract back in time in Culpeper Co. VA land deed records.
I still need to find his farm in Rapphannock Co. VA. This county was form from Culpeper Co. VA 1833, so both records will be need.
In the end, his wife's family MCKAY had far more land, than his Ball Family had.
This was the statement found in the notes of my late grandfather Walter Eugene Shipp about his great-grandfather John Ball of Jeffersonton, Culpeper Co. VA. He lost all due to the Civil War.
I found on (my birthday 8th Dec) the land deed showing the purchase of his farm in the same location he died in Jeffersonton, VA. Book 14, page 306, dated 14 Sep 1859 Wm. B. Brawner & his wife Fanny A. and Frederick P. Brawner & his wife Sarah A. sold to John Ball for $7880 a tract containing 488a with all its appurtenances, situated in Culpeper Co. VA adjoining the lands of Thomas A. Keith, Jones Green & others. Lying on Rapphannaock Co. VA. I found two references to two roads Foxville Road & Sandy Ford Ford. Said two couples purchased it from the heirs of John M. Young then called "Greenfield". Sold to them in 1 Jan 1857.
Hope in the future to trace the tract back in time in Culpeper Co. VA land deed records.
I still need to find his farm in Rapphannock Co. VA. This county was form from Culpeper Co. VA 1833, so both records will be need.
In the end, his wife's family MCKAY had far more land, than his Ball Family had.
I was surprized then years ago I viewed the 1850 & 1860 Slave Schedule for John Ball. He was listed in 1850 Rapphannock (13 slaves) and 1860 Culpeper Co. VA (12 slaves). So obviously I was given incorret information about his land holdings and slave ownership.
I have pulled years ago some of the names of John Ball's slaves from birth & death books from Rapphannock & Culpeper Co. VA. No mention about this part of "The Family History" found in the family records.
My real break came from Culpeper Co. VA Land Deed Book 14, 495 dated 28 Jan 1862, John Ball used as collateral his slaves: Cumberland, Levi, Armstead, Charles, Monday, Mary & her two children (not named). As security to cover his debt for purchase of his 488a.
This record did not say he used ALL his slaves as security, just the ones named above. It could be he did not use all of them, or four of his slaves found on the 1860 Schedule died or were sold by 1862. Being make up of three missing females & one missing male.
From death registry for Rapphannock Co. VA, the 50 years female black listed for 1850 listing does not appear on 1860, believe was his slave Lydia died 1858 65 years of age.
I can't account for his slave Benj. died 1858 age 60 years, mother Mary.
These two slaves if would appear were the oldest of the group.
There was also a slave Martina born Mar 1853 on Rapphannock Birth Registry.
Only slave Mary can I place on 1850, 1860 listing of slaves and mentioned in the land deed. Her children not named I think she could be the 40 year female black with 6 years male mulatto & 4 year male black listed together on the 1860 Slave Schedule.
Gathered from the birth & death registries I know he had five woman of child bearing age. The year 1858 bad year in the slave community of John Ball, for six slaves died. So the same could have happened after 1860 before 1862.
1. Mary alive 1861 mentioned in land deed with two children, she had other children one mentioned-- female slave of John Ball died 1858
2. Kitty could have been alive 1860 listing not mentioned in land deed had a son French died Feb 1858
3. Emily could have been alive 1860 listing not mentioned in land deed had two children: Jane died 1858 & Judith died 1858
4. Betty could have been alive 1860 listed not mentioned in land deed had Henry who died 1858 one year 6 months
5. Amanda could have been alive 1860 listed not mentioned in land deed had Lewis who died 1858 one year 6 months of age
I will be looking for the when & where said John Ball came to possess the above slaves. If I can find the rocords which gave the ages of the slaves that would be very helpful. I do not think his father David Ball, devised any to him. I know that he sued his brother-in-law Daniel F. Pilcher , in right of his second wife Athaline Pilcher, for her share of her father Daniel Pilcher of Fauquier Co. VA slaves. Or his first wife was Nancy Carver of Fauquier Co. VA might have brought slaves into the slave community. Or he could have just purchased slaves over the years.
In any case, he was not a great slave owner as recorded in the "notes" of my grandfather. Some of our the McKay families owned greater numbers of slaves than John Ball. The family in my grandfather's tree that were really wealthly were the Richards. But he knew nothing about them.
The only reason I am posting this message in the hope it will safe other researchers time & monies. I really do not have a "dog in this fight".
There are about four to five researchers who have postings on Ancestry Tree for said Greenberry Mangrum. Parentage posted as unknown. There might be people tooking for his father as a male Mangrum among various records. They are looking in vain.
You can find Greenberry Mangum on 1850 Rutherford Co. TN indexed as Green B. Mangrum, 1860 Franklin Co. TN as G.B. Mangrum, 1870 Franklin Co. TN L.D.S. site Greenberg Mangum. He and his wife had a large family, so lots of people might be looking for his parentage. Only from Ancestry Trees his wife name given as Nancy Elizabeth CRICK. I am not aware of this particular surname.
Then go to Family Tree DNA under Mangrum Project & Duke Project and you will see the numbers of Greenberry Mangrum born 1817 born in TN match the numbers not of other Mangrum but Duke family members.
It would appear more than one female of Mangrum (various spelling) Family had illegitmate sons with members of the same Duke Family.
The issue of Dicey (Carrington) Mangrum & Wm. Duke took place in Orange Co. NC and her son took the name of Mangrum/Mangum.
This mixing of Mangrum & Duke I belive took place in Maury Co. TN, bBecause this is the only place in TN 1820 listed members of Mangrum & Duke Families.
1820 Maury Co. TN: Marthy, Edwin & Henry Mangrum
1820 Maury Co. TN: Benj., Gidian, Green, Moredecai & Wm. Duke
Civil records for this location in TN should be check to rule in or out Greenberry Mangrum parentage.
Henry Mangrum died by 19 Jun 1827 in Maury Co. TN. Mentioned that some of his slaves in the possession of Allen Family members who related to his wife as widow of Allen. These records should be examined.
There is information found in Ancestry Tree which I think might be confusing together three sets of Mangrum Familes. I can not find a good documented listing of Henry's children with his first wife. Two different names given as her maiden name.
His second wife Mary (.......?) Allen married to him 18 Aug 1819 in Maury Co. TN. It could be the household as of 1820 in Maury Co. TN of said Henry Mangrum in that location contained some of the Allen Family members.
The quest looking for Greenberry Mangrum born 1817 and there is a male under 10 in Henry's household. Also a white female under 10 and male in age group male 26 to 44 and female 16 to 25 years.
It could be there was a young couple with two children just living in Henry Mangrum's household.
She was Dicey Carrington, daughter of John & Jemima Carrington who married Arthur Mangum, not Mary.
There was another Mary Carrington daughter of John Sr. & wife Mary Pamplin who married another Wm. Duke on 9 Aug 1783 in Orange Co. NC
The Dicey Carrington b. 1780 married 22 Feb 1801 in Orange Co. NC to Arthur Mangum Jr. She was living on 1850 Orange Co. NC as a widow. He was the son of Arthur SR. & Lucy Person.
One of Dicey & Arthur Mangum's children Cynthia Mangum born 12 Jun 1803 NC d. 20 Sep 1881 in Orange Co. NC married her cousin Nathaniel Macon "Meeks" Carrington.
I believe I might have full listing of Dicey & Arthur Mangum's children, will check if others interested. Believe published book on Mangum Family which spoke of the affair between Dicey (Carrington) Mangum and Wm. Duke. I have copy of his will.
L.D.S. #1697868 #4 has the book "The Mangums of VA & NC" by John T. Palmer. He quoted the book "Mangum Genealogy" by Mrs. Shirley Jones Mallard. She was a direct descendant of said Dicey Carrington (3rd Great Grandmother).
I only copied the pages in connection with Joseph Mangum of Granville, Co. NC.
Page 49, has account of Wm. Duke & Dicey (Carrington) Mangum. The name of that son Green Mangum.
The children of Arthur Magum Jr. & Dicey (Carrington) as: Cynthia, Wm., Arthur, Clary & Jesse Mangum
I do not know if the author of this book knew if Jesse is also a son of Wm. Duke or was Mangum.
According to Mangum DNA Project Site, three Mangrum kits for James, Jesse thought to be brothers and Greenberry Mangrum are showing Duke Markers.
According to my report person/persons have submitted the parentage of my Elizabeth Brown as James Brown & Jane Denniston. Nice thought-- but given the information about the couple I see no way they could be the parents of my Elizabeth Brown.
I have a good prime suspects as who they were and not above couple.
The report has the statement"Haplogroup J1c8 only recently discovered, less than a year ago, in 2009. To date, there are only 13 who have been identified as J1c8 and joined the haplogroup J project" They also stated that to go into this group MUST be tested at the highest level (67 markers), so there could already be persons in the study who have this grouping, but have not upgraded to 67 marker test.
The report goes on to say "Of the 13 people identified, only five are mapped, 2 in UK, 2 in Germany and 1 in Canada."
"I think it is probably safe to say, given the various data within the project and from your own testing that haplogroup J1c8 was probably born in Germany and then migrated either with the Celtic people or the later Anglo-Saxons to England." Gee, I think that is a safe statement.
Well I know of about 100 plus persons just as the descendants of said Elizabeth Brown, if they were tested (must take 67 marker test to qualify as J1c8) would show a totally different picture.
I hope to expand the areas of the US where Elizabeth's female line traveled. Two areas I am looking at Westmoreland Co. VA, Loudoun Co. VA and perhaps NJ area.
In any case, I am interested in any and all of my TN cousins to consider submitting a D.N.A. test. It's "embarrassing" being the only American in the group. My son sample should show up in a few weeks, so their will be just two of us.
Hello, I recently tested positive for J1c8. I have had the full genomic sequence performed. Not too familiar with the mitochondrial side of things, but I have been rather involved with my Y-dna. Where is the project that you mention??
You can go to this site and they have a map of posting of person who have posted the location of their oldest named ancestor.
My Elizabeth Brown is posted under NC born 1780, died in TN.
The only woman of an older generation is Grizelle Kimbrough born 1720 in MD.
I have not fully documented the parentage of Elizabeth, but the records are taking me up into VA. So she could be of interest in the future.
I do not know if you can use this information if you have not be classified as J1c8. You have to be tested for the full test (68 marker) to see if you belong.
Yes, I have had the full genomic sequence test performed and I am confirmed to belong to J1c8. My earliest Maternal ancestor was a Susan Fields, born 1881 in Kentucky. I do not know what her maiden name was. I recently joined the ftdna project for this haplogroup, my kit number is 151463, I'm still listed in the unassigned group. I have no clue as to what her ethnic background would have been, If I had to guess, I would say either Ulster-Scots or English.
Susan Fields born in 1881 KY???????, which county, when and where was she married ? You should be able to find her marriage record.
Where do you do your research ? Might check L.D.S. Labs on line for marriage records that have been edited and put on line. They have film you can order. They have census records on line.
Your local library might have books & film you can order for "free", of course you will have to read through all of them.
I have posted my oldest known female ancestor here on Michael's site. So other can see if they can make a connection.
Plus, personally I am trying just to collect all my Haplogroup on my pedigree chart.
I think my Elizabeth Brown's family goes back to Loudoun Co. VA. She was born 1780 in Orange Co. NC, so I am looking for researchers who have documented their line back far in time than I have.
According to Family Tree DNA I have only two full matches to two men one living in Norway & one in Wales.
My son Travis Dee Buck is not listed under a full match with me because he only did the second degree of testing. 36 or 37 markers.
Just because we share J1c8 doesn't real mean we have a common ancestor who we could find through documentation. I happen to know there are at least 80 living people if they were tested would share the same markers.
I was told by the company a person has to be tested for the 68 marker test and this grouping has only been uncovered in the last few years.
i was recently given a report by 23 and me and my dna came back as j1c8 why is that suposed to be so unusal or is there something i'm missing thank you for your time in advance for your responce.
My grandmother Olive Odillion King was the gr-gr-gr-granddaughter of the Rev. John KING one of three Methodist ministers send to America by John Wesley.
I have two published books dealing with the parentage & early life of John King and some of their information does not match.
The book published by "The Carroll Co. TN Historical Society", done by committee.
"Joel King b. on or about 1710. Well to do, prosperous member of Church of England. His youngest son John King who became first Methodist to preach in Baltimore,MD.
"John King born 1746 in Leicestershire, England, youngest son of Joel King. He studied at Oxford University and London Medical College where he obtained his Medical Degree. While in London he met John Wesley and was converted to Methodism and became a coworker with Wesley, Bishop Ashbury and Pillmore. John King set sail for America in 1769 at the age 23. In 1770 he started preaching in DE, MD, NJ & VA. He was first Methodist to preach in Baltimore, MD. He was one of original council of ten that composted first Methodist conference in America in 1773.
"In December he married Sallie (Sarah) Seawell from a prominent family of Butte Co. NC. They bought a home near Louisburn, Franklin Co. NC and then 1779 moved to Wake Co. NC 10 miles west of Raleigh. He took part in the first Methodist conference of NC. When Franklin Academy was chartered in 1787 he was first named on list of trustee. He died in Wake Co. NC 1795. He was survived by his wife and six children: Joel, John Wesley, Benj., Thomas, Wm. Fletcher & Elizabeth".
No sources are given for where they got the information.
Because I was going on the birth place of John in Leicestershire, I saw that a member of L.D.S. church placed a marriage record for Joel King & Rose Clark in St. John Baptist in Northampton, England. I did find the original record for this marriage L.D.S. fiche 6128581 on the 14th fiche of 26. Bride & groom stated of that parish. Since his county is next to Leicestershire, thought might be the parents of John. Now think this Joel was not the father of my John.
The second book by Ben Lee Seawell "The Genealogy of The Known Descendants of Col. Benj. Seawell & Lucy Hicks".
This book has a picture/painting of Rev. John King, St. George Methodist Episcopal Church of Philadelphia, PA and ink drawning of John preaching in Baltimore, MD.
This book states that John was born in Lancaster, England. Not near the other two locations. This book has some of the same information about his preaching in MD, NJ, VA & NC.
"Where he preached his first sermon from a blacksmith's block at the street corner", this book as a ink drawing of the act.
"He was present at the first Methodist Episcopal Conference ever held in NC on 20th Apr 1785 at the home of his brother-in-law Rev. Green Hill."
This book as well as other published books on Seawell family stated the family from Brunswick Co. VA, not NC.
I have copy of his will and inventory. He was a slave owner.
In short I have two different birth places for John King. I will have to find the actual parish before I can order fiche/film.
I think his wife's family was from Brunswick Co. VA and not NC. I have no idea where each two books got their information. That I will have to find for myself.
You can google "Rev. John King" most likely information will "pop up". Now if correct I have no idea.
I believe a male descend of Rev. John King is included in FamilytreeDNA study for King family.
I am descended from this Rev. John King. I have a great deal of info (and some items) on this family going back a ways but was not aware of a conflict with John King. I will be attuned to this issue as I investigate more.
Hello. I am a descendant of John King through his son, Thomas Seawell King(raleigh N.C. to Nashville, Tenn) his son William G. King(Nashville Tenn to New Orleans La) and his son Samuel Philbrick King(New Orleans,La, and his son Samuel Philbrick King Jr. New Orleans) and his son William Philbrick King (New Orleans). Most of my information was derived from the Nashville State library and the Raleigh N.C. archives. [email protected]
Thank you for posting information on this web site.
John King made his will 30 Jul 1795 and probated 24 Jun 1797 Wake Co. NC. You can get a copy on line through L.D.S. library system or from various web sites that have posted typed copy of the document.
His will:
named as his daughter Betsey King
named as his "beloved wife" Sally King
named as his five sons: Joel, John Wesley, Benj., Thomas, Wm. Fletcher.
His son Thomas King born 1787 Raleigh, Wake Co. NC d. 1862 in Benton Co. TN.
John did not have a son Thomas Seawell King.
My line: John King his son
Thomas King m-2 Sarahh Lawson, died in Benton Co. TN
Wm. Presley King m. Winnie Ridley Hampton died TN
Hansford Duncan King m. Fredonia Jane Derryberry
Joseph Hulon King m. Dessie Green Bolen my great-grandparents
It would appear we have different information about John's son Thomas King.
I have in the past took into my files information given to me by others and "Historical Societies".
I am glad for your posting about King Family, because I took a good look at my files and questioned certain materials.
I do not think the Thomas King listed on 1820 Burke Co. NC, is "my" Thomas King. I have films dealing with Burke Co. NC for Derryberry Family, will see if I can find out more about this Thomas King.
Thomas King first marriage on 9 Apr 1817 in Craven Co. NC to Sidney Lawson. This location seems odd to me, so I must order the film which is said to contain the marriage bond. The names of their children found in various Ancestry.Com trees, census & marriage bonds. They were John, Wesley, Jeremiah (one who lived in Carroll Co. TN), unnamed daughter, Wm. Presley (mine line), Chesley, Wyley, Thomas, Mary Ann & Duncan.
Second marriage 27 Feb 1845 in Benton Co. TN to Dolly Morris. I believe actual copy of the bond on Ancestry or L.D.S. If not I will order the film to get an actual copy. They had Dolly, Betsy (or Elizabeth Ann) & Leonidis. Members of her family can be found "Find a Grave". I do not if Morris was her maiden name or not.
Third marriage 12 Dec 1857 in Benton Co. TN Sarah Watson, they had no children. I believe this marriage bond is on line through L.D.S. Library System or Ancestry. After the death of Thomas King, she was living in others households as house keeper. I do not if Watson was her maiden name or not.
Another issue I was not aware of was that Thomas King was a slave owner, so I need to find when & how he came to have slaves.
Others have put the ancestry of John King of England/NC back five generations in England. I have no idea if correct or not and I wish they had posted their sources.
One piece of bad information received from "Historical Society" was that Jeremiah King of McNairy Co. TN was son of Thomas King of Benton Co. TN. Since said Jeremiah King was born before 18l7. I and others looking for an earlier marriage. So one piece of bad information can send you on a wild goose chase.
As far as Thomas King's name--were are hundreds of legal & public documents filed during his life time that his name was just THOMAS KING. A researcher who I have had exchanged information in the past for decades. Has his name as ALVIN THOMAS KING. Her source "Family Bible" and "Family Tradition". She has re-placed his tomb stone with said name.
In will of John King devised to his daughter Betsey his slave Jenny (girl) and his wife Sally to have use for her natural life Abraham (man) & Beck (woman).
Listed in his inventory total number of slaves: Abraham (man), Martin (boy), Beck (woman), three girls: Jenny, Winney & Clarindy. Year 1797.
My Thomas King by age grouping
in 1830 Perry Co. TN had one slave female 10-23
in 1840 Perry Co. TN had one male 10-23 & 1 female under 10
in 1850 Benton Co. TN had 44 female & 19 male
in 1860 Benton Co. TN had 32 female, 30 male, 25 female, 14 male
I do not think Thomas' slaves will be linked back to his father's slaves of Wake Co. NC, but I want to find out for sure.
Well over 100 people have copied the wrong information giving the ancestry of Elizabeth Brown as
James Brown (1738-1788) & Jane Gillespie (1740-1831)
This couple never lived in Orange Co. NC where my Elizabeth Brown was born.
They lived in Rowan Co. NC to Surry Co. NC removed to Nashville, TN about 1787. He died in Davidson Co. TN. None of these locations did Elizabeth Brown and her Morris family members live.
For some reason when people are caught passing around false information, they get really MAD !! They go after the messenger and not address the message. Copying others computer files is wrong and passing it off as researched material is even worst.
I thought the L.D.S. computer bank was a joke, as it has turned out Ancestry.com Computer Banks is just as bad.
If any researcher can give me the sources for the name given as Isaac F. Morris (husband of Elizabeth Brown) found on many Ancestory.com Family Trees. I would really like to know, so I can go and view the primary source.
People do not want to say they have just copied others "Trees" but reasonable people could draw that conclusion. You can't being doing real research and come up with the same wrong information.
I would really like to know the location where the couple lived and time period.
So far the only source for Elizabeth Brown's husband being Isaac Morris from a secondary source and a few land deeds in Orange Co. NC. Just given as Isaac Morris.
From what sources have researchers posted his name as Isaac F. Morris ?
Halogroups of Sion Monroe Bolen set at R1 b 1 given thanks to the work which appears on line through The Bolling DNA Project (thousands of dollars spend) and his wife Amanda E. Melton J 1 c 8 sample supplied by me (only $309 spend).
I hope over the years to nail down all the rest of my various family groups with documentation & DNA samples. I do not like "Family Tales" when I have science.
I have viewed a few of this ethic group web sites. I learned some years ago that some researchers believed there might be a connection with my surname Bowling/Bolen etc.....with this group "in hills of North Carolina".
Through DNA Bolling Project we know "Native American" blood line did not come through John Bowling's male line. The John who married Martha Mangum. I a copy of their legal & public Granville Co. NC marriage bond 12 Aug 1790.
He was the son of John Bowling Sr. married to a Elizabeth.........?. I believe married not in NC but in MD or VA. So I think out of the reach of this particular group.
Reeves Bolen's mother Martha Mangum I really need the names of her parents to see if there was connect with said Melungeon. There is a Mangum Family DNA study, but only offer Y marker test results. This family came down from the area of Isle of Wight, Nansemond, Norfolk or Princes Anne Counties VA into Granville Co. NC. I do not know if the marriage laws in NC were the same as in VA, but mixed couples could not legally marry in VA. John Bowling & Martha Mangum were legally married.
Since I do see any Mitochondrial test results on Mangum site I have no idea what Halogroups are connected with Mangum Males.
One of the reason I am interested in Mitochondrial DNA profile for the families of this area of NC is to see if my Reeves Bolen's ancestors really contains any Melumgeon Ancestry.
As far as Reeves Bolen's wife Durainey Carrington families: Carrington, Duke, Cozart/Cossart & Reeves. Could be "mixed blood" in Duke or Reeves, but would like to see evidence. Her grandparents were all legally married and I have copies of marriage bonds.
DNA as turn another one of my family history on its head.
My grandfather Roy D. Hopgood's family it appears lived for a time in Bucks Co. PA (assuming they originally came from England), spend time in Berkeley Co. VA, then Bucks Co. PA and went down the Ohio River to Union Co. KY by 1820 census.
You can go to Y Search and my cousin James F. Hopgood's DNA pattern on file and another sample can be found from HOBGOOD. They are not even a close match. My uncle Earl H. Hopgood also has a sample, but he has not shared that information with me.
The founding father of HOBGOOD-- Thomas Hobgood of early Norfolk Co. VA his will on file. One of his grandson removed down to Granville Co. NC. One of these men named Thomas married a Cozart woman (also found in my mother mother family) they removed to Hopkins Co. KY. Always using the surname Hobgood. There is a small town in Granville Co. NC called Hobgood. One of my Hopgood cousin took his picture, thinking he being a cousin.
These are two different families and modern researchers just thought clerks are mixing together a "b" with "p".
I also think that the parentage of my Daniel Hopgood born 1788 VA will be found in Bucks Co. PA. I think the Wm. Hopgood who died in Union Co. KY most likely elder brother of said Daniel. Time will tell.
L.D.S. #2024480 Berkeley Co. VA/WV tax list covers 1800-1813.
I have been looking for the name of my Daniel Hopgood's father for about 30 years. WILLIAM
Listed on tax list for Berkeley Co. VA
1809 Wm. Hopgood for self & his son Daniel (so birth year of 1788 good)
1810 Wm. Hopgood for self & his son Wm. (so birth year of about 1789)
Daniel Hopgood in his own household.
Second golden film #8251 Union Co. KY tax list:
1819 is the first year only Daniel & John Hopgood start living in Union Co. KY and you can follow these two men down to 1847 year John dies.
Above Wm. Hopgood father of Daniel is not living in Union Co. KY. The fact Wm. Hopgood was never found on census was hard for me to understand.
On tax year 1836 a Wm. Hopgood appears listed as white male over 21 years, but no property. We have known from Union Co. KY census Daniel had a son under 10 in 1820 and 10-20 in 1830 census gone by 1840. It became clear to me this was the unknown oldest son of Daniel. Wm. died 1837 and Daniel & Martha named their last son Wm. L. for his older brother.
So there were three different Wm. Hopgood, father Wm. with two known sons: Daniel & Wm. and then Daniel named his eldest son Wm.
6 Oct 1810 Daniel Hopgood of Berkeley Co. VA to MARTHA Thatcher of Buckingham TWP of Bucks Co. PA.
In 1991 a member of the L.D.S. church send into their International Genealogical Index, which Genealogy.com has in their data base, that her first name was Mary Ann.
This incorrect informatin has been picked up by various Hopgood researchers who have assigned Daniel Hopgood two wives: Mary Ann and Martha.
Daniel only had one wife Martha Thatcher.
He had with her: Wm. (died 1837), Matilda, George G. (mine line) & Wm. L.
Martha Thatcher at one time were Quakers. I am finding them in Berkeley Co. VA/WV, but I have not found connection with Martha's parents.
A branch of them removed down from PA to Hopewell Meeting House in Frederick Co. VA then to Berkeley Co. VA, then removed to parts of OH.
To safe myself work I hope that Martha will have some of the same families found in my grandmother Daisy Love (McKay) Shipp.
The marriage between Daniel Hopgood & Martha Thatcher was abtracted from newspaper printed in Bucks or NJ. I since have not found the actual location of their marriage.
Match between a researcher who's line from Bartholomew Thatcher born c1665 Uffington, Berkshire, England. I believe found on net this Thatcher family of England to NJ and all parts south & west.
I have not been able to document my line from Martha who married in Hopgood family.
I believe some of these people were Quaker, but I have no idea if at one time my Hopgood were also Quakers.
I am still looking for documentation as to the blood relationship between him and my Daniel Hopgood. John farmer and slave owner and said Daniel cooper.
I think he died intestate and his inventory taken 26 Feb 1845 by his wife Ura Hopgood and his executor said Daniel Hopgood.
According to this record John's slaves: Mary child $175 and Nancy woman $400
According to 1850 Listing of Slaves for his wife Ura Hopgood (various spelling of her name) slave community
70 female black who was she ?
44 female mulatto could be said Nancy
10 female mulatto could be said Mary
two born after death of said John
4 male black
1 male mulatto
Would the last two also be the sons of Nancy, or purchased.
I do not know why the 70 year old female was not listed on inventory list of 1845, unless Ura after the death of her husband either purchased her or she was given to her. Odd a slave so old would be sold.
In any case, John Hopgood married in Union Co. KY in 1818 to Urah Dillon. I am thinking he got his land and slaves from her family.
L.D.S. #229314 contains Martinsburgh Gazette Friday, 20 May 1812 NO678 No2 ov Vol XIV has notice of law suit filed in Chancery of Berkeley Co. VA. I will ty to see that film later.
Bethuel Middleton
vs
Daniel Hopgood, John, Elizabeth and Rosanna Hopgood children and heirs of Wm. Hopgood dec'd
This article does not say why the suit was filed. Stated that said John & Elizabeth Hopgood not living in Commonwealth of VA and must come and answer the charges in later issue of this newspaper.
1. Wm. Hopgood died by May 1812. He was not on tax list 1810, 1811 or 1812 had children
1. Daniel Hopgood also named as such on tax list
2. Wm. Hopgood must have died before 1812 also not on later tax list
3. John Hopgood not living in Berkeley Co. VA as of 1812
4. Elizabeth Hopgood not living in Berkeley Co. VA as 1812
5. Rosanna Hopgood
L.D.S. #829889 Book 21, page 64, dated 1808, probated 25 Apr 1808, Bethuel Middleton of Berkeley Co. VA sold to Wm. Hopgood also of Berkeley Co. VA for $829.50 a tract whereon he is now living, 118a,2 roods with all its houses etc..., located on Back Creek adjoining lands of Fletcher, Henderson & Morrow.
Same land conveyed to said B. Middleton by heirs of Stephen Ross (granted to him by VA).
Stated he paid in full Apr 1808. So I do not know if Wm. Hopgood owed him additional monies. Time will tell why he filed a case in Chancery against Wm.'s children.
Wm. was on tax list for Berkeley Co. VA in 1810, but not listed on 1810 census for Berkeley Co. VA. The court case was filed May 1811, so I am guess Wm. dies in Berkeley Co. VA late 1810.
The question remains who took into their households John, Elizabeth & Rosanna. Daniel would have been married 1810 and could have taken on Rosanna, but who had John & Elizabeth.
Hope orphan bonds filed in some court will give the answer.
I have send in another DNA test through Ancestry.com. This test does not give you your various haplogroups, but does give you your various racial groups which make up you from both sides of your tree.
The rangle only covers back to your 9th generation.
I hope this test will settle all my "family tales" about Native American ancestry. I do have a lot of unknown female lines which I now have no idea which racial group they might belong.
This test should settle my great-grandmother Moslena (Ball) Shipp's mitochondrial test results.
I do not know if Family Tree DNA offers the same test.
I do not think you have to be a member of Ancestry to order their test. If you can believe what they state there is a waiting list to get the test kit.
My guess would be members would get on the list first.
77 % British Isles
18 % Eastern European
5 % Uncertain
"Your genetic ethnicity reveals where your ancestors lived hundreds--perhaps even thousands--of years ago. This may update over time as new genetic signatures are discovered"
Some of the above percents I find puzzeling with what I know from other DNA test results that I have collected.
Perhaps they are including my German ancestry in with British Isles ?
Eastern European--Belarus, Poland, Ukraine, Romania & Greece. I have no idea that my known ancestors lived in that area. Of course, I do have missing surnames in connection with various branches of my family.
"Uncertain" percent could be the African "L" in connection with Lena (Ball) Shipp.
If these results are correct, one fact is clear-- no NATIVE AMERICAN blood lines which is a "Family Tale" found on both sides of my family.
I have three main French families: DuBois (2), Cossart (2) & Lehew
I have four main German families: Sowers (2), Snyder, Derryberry & Schipp
It would appear the above families were really from Eastern Europe. My Beta Program as over 60 people who are 6th Cousin, but they have not placed into their computer bank their trees.
I will continue to collect Y markers for the above surnames.
My sample filed with Family Path Finder matched my cousin James F. Hopgood. We share common ancestor H.H. Hopgood. Hopgood Y marker I.
I also have found through Ancestry Beta site I share DNA with a woman who has documented her Thatcher line. I believe some of the males have turned in their Y marker test.