FROM: "Ljupco Mircevski-Trepet" trepet@vmro-mnm.com
DATE: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:40:32 +0100
TO: "Pavlos Gyparis" pavlosg_louisgroup@hotmail.com
CC: "Ljupco Mircevski-Trepet" trepet@vmro-mnm.com
SUBJECT: Alo atina ovde e MAKEDONIJA! Hello athens here is MACEDONIA!
The Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization -
Macedonia for the Macedonians (VMRO-MNM) !
November 14, 2002
To Pavlos Gyparis
I am writing to you regarding your false and provocative mails that you sent to the Macedonian Organization VMRO-MNM on October 4, 2002. Actually, you do not deserve any answer since you are not interested in the truth. The only interest you have in our Macedonian history is for the purpose of falsifying it and make it your own. Thus, everything you have written, as you and the rest of the Athenians already know, is inaccurate.
You have been brainwashed by your criminal politicians and fanatics and the Western World's dictatorship regime.
Since you are of Arabian descendent you are the newcomers on Macedonian territory. However, you have been successful in buying friends in the Western World, such as writers, so called historians and experts, politicians and journalists, for the purpose of stealing our Macedonian history, culture and traditions and falsify them to suit you, the newcomers of Arabian origin. I do understand why you are doing this. Since you are gangsters you do as all criminals do: You do not admit your crime and you continue to claim your innocence.
You Athenians are very lucky having the Western World's "historians", writers, professors, etc, helping you to steal the Macedonian history. Consequently, the children in the world read about "Greek" history, "Greek" culture, "Greek" traditions, "Greek" gods and "Greek" antiquity. The truth is, that there are no "Greek" belongings, all of this belongs to us, the Macedonians. It does not belong to you newcomers.
You Athenians have succeeded pretty well with the Macedonian traitors who you pay to destroy the identity of the Macedonian nation. The Asian Tatars ("Bulgarians"), the Albanians from Caucasus and the Serbs from the Armenian Mountains have also experienced the same success due to corrupt Macedonian traitors.
You mentioned the "presidents" Kiro Gligorov and Boris Trajkovski in your mails.
Boris Trajkovski-Vladika: "The beginnings of the statehood of the Macedonian Slavs go back to the end of the 10th century and beginning of the 11th, with the creation of Samoil's state.
After the fall of Samoil's kingdom, during the centuries-long slavery, the wish for a state of its own never extinguished. This is proved by many uprisings against foreign rulers. In the more recent history, during the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans and in Macedonia occurred the most well-known national liberation uprisings, the Karpos uprising in 1689, the Kresna and Razlovci uprisings in 1878". (
http://www.president.gov.mk/eng/makedonija.htm)
It comes to no surprise if they have made such statements since they are the greatest traitors. Naturally, they will one day have to pay a high price from their treason.
I am a Macedonian. I am proud of being a Macedonian. I am proud of working for my country Macedonia and my Macedonian people. I am proud of my Macedonian culture, history and traditions. I am proud of our Macedonian kings and heroes who have given their lives for the Macedonian country and the Macedonian people. I am proud of our Macedonian brothers, Kiril and Metodij, who gave us, as you can see on the picture, our Macedonian, not Athenian, alphabet.
http://www.vmro-mnm.com/Among_the_oldest_alphabets_in_the_world_The_Macedonian_alphabet.htm
I and the Macedonian Organization VMRO-MNM will fight for the liberation of our occupied territories and we will return our stolen history, culture and traditions.
I want to mention an important protocol that I received a couple of days ago regarding a conference that will be held in the occupied Macedonian town Solun on November 15, 2002, with representatives from different organizations and folk groups. In this protocol, the Macedonian nation and the Macedonian language is mentioned. However, such protocols and conferences cannot help the Macedonian people regaining everything that has been stolen and occupied by the newcomers since the only thing they bring up is the language. Thus, the Macedonian Organization VMRO-MNM do not accept such protocols because, to us, it is not enough to only discuss the language since there are many other issues that are more important to discuss, for example, the return of everything that has been stolen from the Macedonian nation, including the occupied territories.
If you Athenians, together with the EU and the UN, believe that you can trick the Macedonian people and the Macedonian Organization VMRO-MNM by only acknowledging the Macedonian language, you are wrong. Furthermore, we know that, even if this discussion is held, the language will still not be acknowledged. It might exist on a piece of paper but not in the real world. This is only an act performed by you fascist Athenians, the EU and the UN.
Alo "atina", "sofija", "belgrad" i "tirana" ovde e MAKEDONIJA!
Hallo "athens", "sofija", "belgrad" and "tirana" here is MACEDONIA!
MAKEDONIJA NA MAKEDONCITE!
MACEDONIA FOR THE MACEDONIANS!
JAS SUM MAKEDONEC A NE FYROMEC!
NIE SME MAKEDONCI A NE FYROMCI!
VECNO DA ZIVEE MAKEDONSKATA ZEMJA!
VECNO DA ZIVEE MAKEDONSKIOT NAROD!
LONG LIVE MACEDONIAN!
LONG LIVE THE MACEDONIAN NATION!
MACEDONIA BELONGS TO THE MACEDONIANS NO ONE ELSE.
Ljupco Mircevski-Trepet
President of the Macedonian Organization VMRO-MNM
GREEK COMMITTEE OF THE EUROPEAN
BUREAU FOR LESSER USED LANGUAGES
PO BOX 100, 59200 NAOUSA – GREECE
TEL. ++.3850.22570
E-mail: greblul@otenet.gr
INFORMATION BULLETIN
OCTOBER 2002
NUMBER 1
PRESS RELEASE
On 26 January 2002 a meeting was arranged in Thessaloniki by the European Bureau for Lesser Used Languages for representatives of the linguistic minorities of Greece.
This historic meeting ended with a decision to create the Greek Committee of the European Bureau for Lesser Used Languages, in other words a committee of the Greek Section of the EBLUL.
The membership of the Greek Committee of the EBLUL will be as follows:
Chairman: Athanasios Parisis (Member of the Centre for Macedonian Culture)
Deputy Chairman: Sotirios Bletsas (President of the Society for Aroumounic (Vlach) Culture)
Secretary: Ibram Onsunoglu (Member of the Turkish Minority Movement for Human and Minority Rights)
Member: Petros Kazias (Member of the Centre for Macedonian Culture)
Member: Georgios Tsamitros (Member of the Society for Aroumounic (Vlach) Culture)
Member: Abdulhalim Dede (Member of the Turkish Minority Movement for Human and Minority Rights)
The objectives of the Greek Committee of the EBLUL are clearly set out in its charter:
1) To preserve and promote the minority languages of Greece, specifically the Aroumounic (Vlach), Macedonian, Pomak and Turkish languages.
2) To seek the introduction of the minority languages into the Greek educational system, in those regions where these languages are spoken.
3) To endeavour to preserve and promote the cultures of the aforesaid minority languages.
The Greek Committee of the European Bureau for Lesser Used Languages, in association with the Brussels Central Bureau, under the aegis and with the funding of the European Union, will endeavour to realise in tangible form its philosophy, namely the need to save and promote a peaceful and multicultural United Europe.
Report on Helsinki Conference
Creation of Joint Structures for Historic Linguistic Minorities in the European Union
Naousa 16 October
A delegation from the Greek Committee of the EBLUL, consisting of Messrs. Athanasios Parisis, Committee Chairman, and Sotirios Bletsas, Deputy Chairman, attended the Conference held in Helsinki, Finland, on 11-12 October 2002. The Conference was held to discuss the subject: ‘Creation of joint structures for the historic linguistic minorities in the European Union’.
The Conference was organised by the Swedish Assembly of Finland, the National Finnish Association of Sweden, the EU Mission and the Ministry for Language of the Welsh Assembly.
Our delegation also participated in the work of the EBLUL Conference.
The Conference was addressed by Bojan Brezigar, President of the EBLUL, Paavo Lipponen, Finnish Prime Minister, Martti Ahtisaari, former President of Finland, Viviane Riding, EU Commissioner for Education and Culture, Asrid Thors, Finnish Euro MP, Ulpu Livari, Euro MP, Jean-Luc Dehaene, former Prime Minister of Belgium, and Colin H. Williams, Minister for Wales.
The theme of the Conference was a timely one, and very relevant indeed to the problems we are facing at the present time. It is connected to two key questions: the impending expansion of the European Union, and the control of developments in south-eastern Europe following recent upheavals.
Mr. Martti Ahtisaari, chairing the Conference, spoke among other things of the necessity of ensuring the protection of human rights and diversity in the current member states.
In discussion of the role of the EU in respect of minority languages, it was agreed that efforts must be made to encourage the development of basic standards, in accordance with which the member states will take appropriate measures, on the basis of their own individual cultures.
Given that in several member states of the EU the protection of linguistic rights is problematic, the Union’s role as coordinator in the development of these standards is of great importance.
M. Jean-Luc Dehaene, former Prime Minister of Belgium, stressed that the European Union must play its part when we are discussing the linguistic diversity of a future Europe. He also stressed the need for a strong constitutional basis, which will commit the European Union in its stance on linguistic and cultural difference.
It must be made clear in the future European Constitution that all languages have the same value and the same dignity.
Mrs. Viviane Riding, EU Commissioner for Education and Culture, described current EU plans for future policy on linguistic diversity.
Before the end of the year a consultation document will be published, setting out the future measures on linguistic diversity and the learning of languages in a European perspective.
The result of this process will be an exchange of views and cooperation between the European Parliament and the European Commission on the launching of an action plan.
Mr. Brezigar, President of the EBLUL, stressed the need to define minimum standards for the protection and promotion of regional and minority languages and to include them in future EU legislation.
This will benefit not only the linguistic communities, but the EU itself, allowing it to avoid future tension and possible conflict within the new member states. Mr. Brezigar also referred to the definition of entry criteria, in Copenhagen in 1993, where respect for minorities is a requirement which must be met by the candidate states.
Finally, Mr. Lipponen, Prime Minister of Finland, referred to the state of the linguistic groups in his own country and described the measures being taken to develop linguistic and cultural diversity.
Finland has two national languages recognised by the Constitution, Finnish and Swedish. He reminded his audience that the Swedish linguistic minority constituted only 6% of the population, an indication of the strength and flexibility required. Strength for each person to use his mother tongue; flexibility in the support for this from Finnish-speakers. He also emphasised the demand for the use of Swedish wherever required.
Flexibility is necessary in understanding that the fundamental principle of equality cannot be applied automatically. The Finnish-speakers, who make up 92% of the population, need to be encouraged to learn another language in order to acquire the ability to understand the situation.
The Chairman
Thanasis Parisis
Announcement
Naousa 21 October 2002
The 1st International Conference of the Brussels EBLUL (European Bureau for Lesser Used Languages) will be held in Thessaloniki on Friday 15 November 2002.
The Conference will be attended by representatives from the European Parliament, the Council of Europe, the Brussels EBLUL and various foreign experts in minority language issues.
On the Greek side, delegates to the Conference will include representatives of the linguistic minorities, specifically of the Aroumounic, Macedonian, Turkish and Pomak languages.
Finally, there will be addresses of welcome or brief speeches by representatives of Greek Non-Government Organisations.
Alo Atina ovde e Makedonija. Hello Athens Here is Macedonia..doc (Binary attachment)
FROM: "VMRO-MNM" macedonia_for_the_macedonians@vmro-mnm.com
DATE: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:58:15 +0100
TO: GREEK COMMITTEE OF THE EUROPEAN BUREAU FOR LESSER USED LANGUAGES greblul@otenet.gr, "Mr. Ljupco Mircevski-Trepet" trepet@vmro-mnm.com, "Pavlos Gyparis" pavlosg_louisgroup@hotmail.com
CC: "VMRO-MNM" macedonia_for_the_macedonians@vmro-mnm.com, VMRO-MNM vmro-mnm@vmro-mnm.com, VMRO-MNM info@vmro-mnm.com
SUBJECT: Alo atina ovde e MAKEDONIJA! Hello athens here is MACEDONIA!
The Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization - Macedonia for the Macedonians (VMRO-MNM) !
http://www.vmro-mnm.com/Hello_athens_here_is_MACEDONIA_Alo_atina_ovde_e_MAKEDONIJA.htm
Alo Atina ovde e Makedonija. Hello Athens Here is Macedonia..doc (Binary attachment)
E-mails from Athenian Nazis and Fascists to VMRO-MNM and the organization's answer to these provocative mails!
FROM: "vmro-mnm" vmro-mnm@vmro-mnm.com | Save Address
DATE: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:18:30 +0200
TO: "G-din. Ljupco Mircevski-Trepet" trepet@vmro-mnm.com
SUBJECT: Lazhna i provokatorska propaganda od azijatskoto-arabsko karpetinsko pleme koj shto po novo se narekuvat "grci" !
FROM: "Pavlos Gyparis" pavlosg_louisgroup@hotmail.com | Save Address
DATE: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 14:05:21 +0300
TO: "VMRO-MNM" info@vmro-mnm.com
SUBJECT: The truth about Macedonia...
The truth about Macedonia...
? Simple answers to frequently used Slavic arguments "Greece officially denied the use of the name Macedonia after the Balkan wars."
This is a very inaccurate argument. There are several examples of state institutions and private businesses using the name Macedonia which operate in Greece since the early 1900s. These are just a few of them:
The "Macedonia" newspaper (1912)
The Society for Macedonian Studies (1939) [web site]
The museum of ancient Macedonia (1961) [web site]
The museum of the Macedonian struggle (1979) [web site]
Greece has been actively using the name Macedonia since its liberation from the Ottoman empire. If Greece's official position was to "deny the existence of Macedonia" how would it be possible for hundreds of private companies to be named after Macedonia?
"Greece has changed the "Macedonian" names of locations in the Macedonia region."
The Greek names are older than the Slavic ones and most of them have their roots in ancient Greece. The Greek names of the towns in Macedonia are also mentioned in the Bible. A characteristic example is Thessaloniki. This city was founded in 315 bc by the Macedonian king Kasssandros and it was named after Alexanders' half sister - Thessaloniki. How could the Greeks change the name from Solun (as the Slavs claim) to Thessaloniki in 1912 if that was the original name? The name Thessaloniki is even mentioned in the bible by St Paul. Why did he address his letters (epistoles) to the people of Thessaloniki and not the to the people of Solun?
What about the Greek names of towns inside FYROM used during the Ottoman times? Did Greece change them as well?
"Today's 'Greeks' and ancient 'Hellenes have no relation between them."
How is it possible for the people who live in the same region, speak the same language and have the same names and culture not to be descendants of the ancient inhabitants of the region? Similarly we could say that today's Egyptians are not descendants of ancient Egyptians and today's Chinese people are not descedants of ancient Chinese.
The name 'Greek' is in fact ancient as well as the famous philosopher Aritotelis verifies:
"...and she was not there forever, but after the cataclysm of Defkalion, which occurred in the Hellenic area, in fact, in the ancient Hellas, which was around Dodoni, and it changed many times the flow of Acheloos river. In that area live the Selloi and the ones that were once called Graecoi and are now called Hellenes..." [Aristotelis Meteorologika, I, 14]
"There is a large Macedonian minority in Greece"
There is no "Macedonian minority" in Greece because there is no such nationality. There is a small group of people who speak a Slavic dialect which is in fact different from what is claimed to be the "Macedonian language" These people are not a "Macedonian minority" as they consider themselves Greeks. There is also an even smaller group of Slav propagandists who are trying to create a Macedonian minority in Greece. Anyone who didn't consider him/herself Greek could and should have left Greece during the exchange of populations in 1919.
"One million people in Greece consider themselves Macedonians"
In the 1996 parliament elections in Greece the political party of the people who claim to be a "Macedonian minority" gained 3.485 votes (official result). In the 2000 parliament elections they didn't take up part at all. Of course there is no doubt of the integrity of the election procedures since Greece is a member of the European Union. If there was such a large number of "Macedonians" in Greece (1/10th) wouldn't be easy for them to stand up against the "Greek occupation"?
"Greece acquired illegally Aegean Macedonia in 1913"
Greece acquired 51% of Macedonia in 1913 as a result of the treaty of Bucharest. International treaties are not illegal. Furthermore Greece in 1913 was not a powerful country to acquire any land it desired. This land was "given" to Greece because it historically belonged to Greece and its residents were Greek.
"What gives Greece the right to name another country? This issue is straightforward, every country has the right to call itself whatever it wishes."
This is a misleading statement. The author knows very well why Greece is objecting to the use of the name Macedonia. In fact every country has the right to chose its own name as far as it does not belong to another country's history. The name Macedonia belongs to the Greek history. Greece has the right to protect its history and heritage.
"Saints Cyril and Methdje (or Kirl and Metodi) were not Greeks but Macedonians."
Saints Cyrilos and Methodios were Greeks born in Thessaloniki and this is well known to all Christians. Pope John Paul the B' in an official apostolic homily to the entire Catholic Church proclaimed that Methodius and Cyril "Greek brethren born in Thessaloniki" are consecrated as "heavenly protectors of Europe". John Paul B' repeated this statement in a speech delivered in the church of Saint Clements, in Rome. You can see the original document here.
"Greece stole the Macedonian history"
Greece does not 'steal' history. It has its own lengthy and respected history. It is the only thing that Greece has plenty of it. The Greek history and culture is respected by all the countries in the world. People who don't have their own history need to 'steal' someone else's...
"Linguistic science has at its disposal a very limited quantity of Macedonian words. A very limited quantity in this case is a quantity indeed, that Greeks cannot ignore."
This argument proves the Greek point that the "Macedonian language" was a Greek a dialect. There only exists "a limited quantity of Macedonian words" because the Macedonian dialect had "limited" differences from the Greek language.
How could it be possible for a separate "ancient Macedonian language" to disappeared after what Alexander had achieved?
"If Philip united and not conquered the Greeks why did Alexander leave 25.000 men of his army in Macedonia when he is about to face the strongest and most numerous army in the world?"
No sensible leader would go on a quest taking ALL his army with him and leaving his homeland unprotected!
And of course he did not leave 25.000 men in Macedonia because he was afraid of the other Greeks. Macedonia had lots of real enemies at its northern border (Illyrians, Dardanians,Paionians etc).
"If Macedonians were Greek then why only 30% of Alexander's army were Greek?"
The right question to ask is 'why as many as 30% of Alexander's army were from the rest of Greece?' After all Macedonians and Greeks were supposed to be enemies! The Macedonians 'conquered' the Greeks according to the Slavic version of the Macedonian history. The fact that a very significant part of Alexander's army were non-Macedonian Greeks shows the truth.
"Ancient Macedonians did not take part in the Olympic Games"
This is another false statement. It can be easily proved that people from Macedonia took part in the Olympic Games. For a list Macedonians who won the Olympic Games the click here.
"Ancient Macedonians fought against Greece."
This is another misleading statement. It is well known that the ancient Greek states were largely independed of each other and that often led to wars between them. Some well-known examples are the Peolloponisian was between Athens and Sparti, the Athenians quest in the island of Mitilini, the brutal war between Sparti and Thebes and many more. A war between two ancient Greek regions did not mean that one of them was not Greek.
"There are no ancient monuments written in the Macedonian language because Greek archaeologists destroy them when they are recovered."
Even if we accept that this is true it still doesn't explain why aren't there any monuments in the rest of Macedonia!
What about the ancient monuments in FYROM and Bulgaria?
What about the ancient monuments on Alexander's route in Asia?
Why aren't there any "non Greek Macedonian monuments" ?
Oh, I know why! The Greek archaeologists must have destroyed them as well !!!
"If in fact, "Macedonia is Greece", how come they feel the need to emphasize, to shout, and to proclaim over and over again? After all, we never hear them proclaiming that 'Thebes is Greece', or 'Sparta is Greece' ".
If the Salvs wanted to name heir country "Republic of Thebes" or "Republic of Sparta" who would shout out "Thebes and Sparta are Greek". But they are claiming to be Macedonians so we shout that
"MACEDONIA WAS GREEK"
"MACEDONIA IS GREEK"
"MACEDONIA WILL BE FOREVER GREEK"
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FROM: "Pavlos Gyparis" pavlosg_louisgroup@hotmail.com | Save Address
DATE: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 14:11:35 +0300
TO: "VMRO-MNM" info@vmro-mnm.com
SUBJECT: Are FYROM's residents Macedonians?
? A quick review of the Fyromian web sites wil prove that they seem to be confused themselves:
Some of them believe they are descedants of ancient Macedonians Some of them beleive that they can consider themeselves Macedonians since they live in a part of what used to be ancient Macedonia Some of them believe they are Macedonians but not directly linked to ancient Macedonians Some of them believe they are Macedonians because they are free to call themselves as they like(!!!)
The official web site of the president of FYROM states clearly that these people came to Macedonia at the end 10th century:
"The beginnings of the statehood of the Macedonian Slaves go back to the end of the 10th century and beginning of the 11t, with the creation of Samoil's state."
Link:
http://www.president.gov.mk/eng/makedonija.htm
Also the first president of FYROM president Mr. Kiro Gligorov confirmed twice that they are not related to the ancient Macedonians:
"We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians." (from the Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35. )
"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians. That's who we are! We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia. The ancient Macedonians no longer exist, they had disappeared from history long time ago. Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century (A.D)."
(from the Toronto Star newspaper, March 15, 1992)
The following questions are obvious:
Why do you call yourselves "Macedonians" and your language "Macedonian"?
Why do you use ancient Macedonian symbols if they don't belong to you?
The historic truth is that the Slavs descented into the region not before the 6th century long after ancient Macedonia was homogenized with the rest of Greece. They don't have any historical cultural or linguistic ties with ancient Macedonia and they would be realy foolish if they officialy claimed that they did. There is no historic or archaeological evidence connecting them with ancient Macedonia.
In any case occupying 25% of ancient Macedonian land does not give them the right to steal the Macedonian history and culture. The Macedonian civilization was part of the ancient Greek civilization. This is well known and recorded in history books. It is part of Greece's national inheritance and it can not be used by anyone else.
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FROM: "Pavlos Gyparis" pavlosg_louisgroup@hotmail.com | Save Address
DATE: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 14:16:56 +0300
TO: "VMRO-MNM" info@vmro-mnm.com
SUBJECT: Why FYROM should not be named "Macedonia"
The truth about Macedonia...
?
FYROM's residents have no historical cultural or linguistic ties with ancient Macedonia.
The heart of ancient Macedonia was not in the teritory which FYROM occupies but in the Greek part of Macedonia were all the major archaeological discoveries took place.
The name "Republic of Macedonia implies a teritorial threat against Greece and other countries and it creates a great risk of renewed ethnic conflict in the Balkans.
The area of FYROM was never called "Macedonia" before the 2nd World War. This name was given to the Southern Yugoslavian providence by General Tito aiming to create conflicts in the region and to obtain Greek and Bulgarian teritories. Before the 2nd World War FYROM was called Vardarska.
FYROM's population is a mixture of many different ethnic groups. Only 60% of them are "Macedonians". There is also a large minority of Albanians (30%) and smaller groups of Serbs Turks, Greeks and others.
Ancient Macedonia and its civilization was part of the ancient Greek civilization.
Suggestions
Some suggestions for FYROM's permanent name:
The name this region used since the 2nd world war - Vardarska
The ancient name of the region - Paionia
A name which describes the country geographicaly - Central Balkan Republic
Related links
Are FYROM's residents Macedonians?
http://truth.macedonia.gr/index02.html
The vision of "Greater Macedonia" [External link]
http://uranus.eng.auth.gr/new/eng/macedonia/kofos/
© Real Macedonia 2001
The truth about Macedonia...
? What do the scholars say?
From "A History of Macedonia"
by Malcom Errington (Philipps-Universitat in Marburg, Germany)
University of California Press, 1993
Page 3
"That the Macedonians and their kings did in fact speak a dialect of Greek and bore Greek names may be regarded nowadays as certain."
Page 4
"Ancient allegations that the Macedonians were non-Greek all had their origin in Athens at the time of the struggle with Philip II."
From "Alexander's empire"
by John Pentland Mahaffy (University of Dublin, Ireland)
G Putnam's sons, London, 1881
Page 8
"... for with Alexander the stage of Greek influence spread across the world. "
From "The tutorial history of Greece, to 323 B.C. : from the earliest times to the death of Demosthenes"
by W. J. Woodhouse (Universiy of Sydney, Australia)
University Tutorial Press, 1904, (reprinted 1944)
Page 216
" This was Macedonia in the strict sense, the land where settled immigrands of Greek stock later to be called Macedonians"
From "The Western Experience"
by Mortimer Chambers (University of California),
Raymond Grew (University of Michigan),
David Herlihy (Harvard University),
Theodore Rabb (Princeton University)
and Isser Woloch (Columbia University)
Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 2nd edition , 1997
Page 79
"THE MONARCHS OF MACEDONIA:
Macedonia (or Macedon) was an ancient, somewhat backward kingdom in northen Greece. Its emergence as a Hellenic power was due to a resourceful king, Philip II (359-336), whose career has been unjustly overshadowed by the deeds of his son, Alexander the Great".
? What do the ancient historians say?
» On the origin on the Macedonians
» On the language of the Macedonians
» On the religion of the Macedonians
» On the culture of the Macedonians
» On the geography of Macedonia
» What did the Macedonians think of themselves?
» What did the rest of the Greeks think?
http://truth.macedonia.gr/quotes.html#origin
On the origin of the Macedonians
The Greek origin of the Macedonians is proven by the vast majority of the ancient historians.
Diodoros of Sicily talks about the links of Alexander to the Greek mythology (Diodoros, Historical Library 17.1.5):
"On his father's side Alexander was a descendant of Heracles and on his mother's he could claim the blood of the Aeacids, so that from his ancestors on both sides he inherited the physical and moral qualities of greatness."
Herodotus confirms that the Macedonians were people of Greek origin (Histories of Herodotus Book 5, paragraph 22.1)
"Now that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks, as they themselves say, I myself chance to know and will prove it in the later part of my history.That they are so has been already adjudged by those who manage the Pan-Hellenic contest at Olympia. "
And later on (Book 8, paragraph 137.1) he verifies it:
"This Alexander was seventh in descent from Perdiccas, who got for himself the tyranny of Macedonia in the way that I will show. Three brothers of the lineage of Temenus came as banished men from Argos to Illyria, Gauanes and Aeropus and Perdiccas; and from Illyria they crossed over into the highlands of Macedonia till they came to the town Lebaea."
Also in the very first book of his "Histories" (paragraph 56.3 ) Herodotus states about the origin of the the Greek people:
"For in the days of king Deucalion it inhabited the land of Phthia, then the country called Histiaean, under Ossa and Olympus, in the time of Dorus son of Hellen; driven from this Histiaean country by the Cadmeans, it settled about Pindus in the territory called Macedonian; from there again it migrated to Dryopia, and at last came from Dryopia into the Peloponnese, where it took the name of Dorian."
Thoukididis also verifies that the Macedonian kings' origin was from the Greek town of Argos (Book 2, 99.3):
"The country on the sea coast, now called Macedonia, was first acquired by Alexander, the father of Perdiccas, and his ancestors, originally Temenids from Argos."
Aristotelis, the teacher of Alexander the Great says about the rivers in Macedonia (Meteorologika, Book I, Par. 13):
"Of the rivers in the Greek world, the Achelous flows from Pindus, the Inachus from the same mountain; the Strymon, the Nestus, and the Hebrus all three from Scombrus; many rivers, too, flow from Rhodope."
Finally Isocratis states (To Philip, paragraph 32):
"Argos is the land of your fathers, and is entitled to as much consideration at your hands as are your own ancestors;"
On the language of the Macedonians
The Macedonians spoke the Greek language as the ancient authors verify. The Roman writer Titus Livius says : (from "The Foundation of the City", Paragraph 31)
"The Aitolians, the Akarnanians, the Macedonians, men of the same language, are united or disunited by trivial causes that arise from time to time; with aliens, with barbarians, all Greeks wage and will wage eternal war; for they are enemies by the will of nature, which is eternal, and not from reasons that change from day to day."
Didorus of Sicily (17.67.1) says:
"After this Alexander left Dareius's mother, his daughters, and his son in Susa, providing them with persons to teach them the Greek language, and marching on with his army on the fourth day reached the Tigris River. "
On the religion of the Macedonians
The Macedonians had the same religion as the rest of the Greeks, they worshiped the twelve Olympian Gods.
Two quotes from Plutarch's "Alexander"
"Philip, after this vision, sent Chaeron of Megalopolis to consult the oracle of Apollo at Delphi, by which he was commanded to perform sacrifice, and henceforth pay particular honour, above all other gods, to Zeus;"
"He [Alexander he Great] erected altars, also, to the gods, which the kings of the Praesians even in our time do honour to when they pass the river, and offer sacrifice upon them after the Greek manner."
Diodoros of Sicily also makes clear that the Macedonnians worshiped the twelve Greek Gods:
Histories, Chapter 16, 95.2
"Along with lavish display of every sort, Philip included in the procession statues of the twelve Gods brought with great artistry and adorned with a dazzling show of wealth to strike awe to the beholder, and along with these was conducted a thirteenth statue, suitable for a god, that of Philip himself, so that the king exhibited himself enthroned among the twelve Gods."
Histories, Chapter 16, 91.5-6
"He (King Philip) wanted as many Greeks as possible to take part in the festivities in honour of the gods, and so planned brilliant musical contests and lavish banquets for his friends and guests. Out of all Greece he summoned his personal guest-friends and ordered the members of his court to bring along as many as they could of their acquaintances from abroad."
On the culture of the Macedonians
"Alexandros observed that his soldiers were exhausted with their constant campaigns. ... The hooves of the horses had been worn thin by steady marching. The arms and armour were wearing out, and the Hellenic clothing was quite gone. They had to clothe themselves in materials of the barbarians,..."
(Diodoros of Sicily 17.94.1-2)
On the geography of Macedonian
The great philosopher Aristotelis (Aristotle) considers the rivers in Macedonias as "rivers in the Greek world"
"Of the rivers in the Greek world, the Achelous flows from Pindus, the Inachus from the same mountain; the Strymon, the Nestus, and the Hebrus all three from Scombrus; many rivers, too, flow from Rhodope. ..."
(Aristotelis, Meteorology, Book 1, Par. 13)
and later on he says:
"The deluge in the time of Deucalion, for instance, took place chiefly in the Greek world and in it especially about ancient Hellas, the country about Dodona and the Achelous, a river which has often changed its course. Here the Selli dwelt and those who were formerly called Graeci and now Hellenes..."
(Aristotelis, Meteorology, Book 1, Par. 13)
What did the Macedonians think of themselves?
It is very clear from the surviving ancient sources that the Macedonians considered themselves to be Greeks.
In Herodotus (Book 9, paragraph 45.2) Alexander I , king of Macedonia says:
"... I myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery ..."
Alexander III (the Great) talking to the king of the Persians says: (Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander II,14,4)
"Your ancestors invaded Macedonia and the rest of Greece and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury [...] I have been appointed hegemon of the Greeks [...] "
Arrian ("Alexander the Great" 1,16,7) describes the following incident: After winning an important battle in Asia ...
"He [Alexander the Great] sent to Athens three hundred Persian panoplies to be set up to Athena in the acropolis; he ordered this inscription to be attached: Alexander son of Philip and the Hellenes, except the Lacedaemonians, set up these spoils from the barbarians dwelling in Asia"
(Diodoros of Sicily 16.93.1)
"Every seat in the theater was taken when Philip appeared wearing a white cloak and by his express orders his bodyguard held away from him and followed only at a distance, since he wanted to show publicly that he was protected by the goodwill of all the Hellenes, and had no need of a guard of spearmen."
And from Flavious Josephus (11.8.5) we have the following incident where Alexander clearly considers himself a Greek:
"And when the book of Daniel was showed to him (Alexander the Great) wherein Daniel declared that one of the Greeks should destroy the empire of the Persians, he supposed that himself was the person intended"
What did the rest of the Greeks think?
The ancient Greek people alwayws considered the Macedonians to be Greek as well. This can be easily proved because the Macedonians were members of all the Greek institutions, such as the Delphic amphictiony:
Pausanias writes in his book "Description of Greece" (10.3.3):
"The Phocians were deprived of their share in the Delphic sanctuary and in the Greek assembly, and their votes were given by the Amphictyons to the Macedonians."
and also in his book "Phokis" (8,2 & 4):
"They say that these were the tribes collected by Amphiktyon himself in the Hellenic Assembly: [...] the Macedonians joined and the entire Phocian race [...] In my day there were thirty members: six from each of Nikopolis, Macedonia and Thessaly [...] "
Aeschines (On the Embassy 2.32) gives evidence of the Macedonian king Amyntas taking part at the congress of the Lacedaemonian allies and the other Greeks:
"For at a congress of the Lacedaemonian allies and the other Greeks, in which Amyntas, the father of Philip, being entitled to a seat, was represented by a delegate whose vote was absolutely under his control, he joined the other Greeks in voting to help Athens to recover possession of Amphipolis. As proof of this I presented from the public records the resolution of the Greek congress and the names of those who voted".
Isocratis, one of the most impotant orators of ancient Greece says in his speach "To Philip" addressed to King Philip II of Macedonia (Paragaraph 127):
"Therefore, since the others are so lacking in spirit, I think it is opportune for you to head the war against the King; and, while it is only natural for the other descendants of Heracles, and for men who are under the bonds of their polities and laws, to cleave fondly to that state in which they happen to dwell, it is your privilege, as one who has been blessed with untrammeled freedom, to consider all Greece your fatherland, as did the founder of your race, and to be as ready to brave perils for her sake as for the things about which you are personally most concerned."
The Sicilian historian Diodoros says in his history about King Philip of Macedonia (Diodoros, Historical Library 16.95.1-2)
"Such was the end of Philip, who had made himself the greatest of the kings in Europe in his time, and because of the extent of his kingdom had made himself a throned companion of the twelve gods. He had ruled twenty-four years. He is known to fame as one who with but the slenderest resources to support his claim to a throne won for himself the greatest empire in the Greek world, while the growth of his position was not due so much to his prowess in arms as to his adroitness and cordiality in diplomacy.
Even the Persians considerd Macedonia a part of Greece! The Persian king Mardonius says : (From the Histories of Herodotus Book 7, Paragraph 9.1-2).
"We know the manner of their battle- we know how weak their power is; already have we subdued their children who dwell in our country, the Ionians, Aeolians, and Dorians. I myself have had experience of these men when I marched against them by the orders of thy father; and though I went as far as Macedonia, and came but a little short of reaching Athens itself, yet not a soul ventured to come out against me to battle. [...] Yet the Greeks are accustomed to wage wars, as I learn, and they do it most senselessly in their wrongheadedness and folly [...]. Since they speak the same language, they should end their disputes by means of heralds or messengers, or by any way rather than fighting; if they must make war upon each other, they should each discover where they are in the strongest position and make the attempt there. The Greek custom, then, is not good; and when I marched as far as the land of Macedonia, it had not come into their minds to fight."
Mardonius marched against the Greeks and he "went as far as Macedonia, and came but a little short of reaching Athens itself". Obviously he considers Macedonia a part of Greece!
Related links
How the Slavic propaganda exploits the ancient sources to dispute the Greek identity of the ancient Macedonians.
http://truth.macedonia.gr/distortion.html
What do today's scholars say about the identity of the ancient Macedonians?
http://truth.macedonia.gr/scholars.html
[ © Real Macedonia 2001
© Real Macedonia 2001
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FROM: "vmro-mnm" vmro-mnm@vmro-mnm.com | Save Address
DATE: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:54:43 +0200
TO: "G-din. Ljupco Mircevski-Trepet" trepet@vmro-mnm.com
SUBJECT: Prokleti Makedonski izrodi-predavnichki //
http://www.president.gov.mk/eng/makedonija.htm
REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA
Documents:
plural elections
declaration of sovereignity
referendum
constitution
declaration of international recognition
adhesion of the Republic of Macedonia to the UN
integration in the European Union
Symbols
The Republic of Macedonia was established as an outcome of the century-long struggle of the Macedonian people for national liberation and for a state of its own.
The beginnings of the statehood of the Macedonian Slavs go back to the end of the 10th century and beginning of the 11th, with the creation of Samoil's state.
After the fall of Samoil's kingdom, during the centuries-long slavery, the wish for a state of its own never extinguished. This is proved by many uprisings against foreign rulers. In the more recent history, during the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans and in Macedonia occurred the most well-known national liberation uprisings, the Karpos uprising in 1689, the Kresna and Razlovci uprisings in 1878.
The foundations of the modern Macedonian state were established during the Ilinden uprising in 1903, with the proclamation of the Krusevo Republic (in the town of Krusevo), as the first Republic on the Balkans. Nikola Karev was declared first president of the first Macedonian Republic.
Less than a decade after the Ilinden uprising was violently quelled, Macedonian and the Macedonian people undergo some of the most tragic times of their history. After the Balkan wars in 1912 and 1913 Macedonia was divided among the neighboring Balkan countries whereas the Macedonian people are subjected to denationalization, assimilation and genocide. The contemporary Republic of Macedonia is situated on the territory that became part of Serbia after the Balkan wars. (later within Yugoslavia).
In the course of the Second World War, in August 2, (on the Ilinden Day) in 1944, the First Session of then Anti Fascist Assembly of the National Liberation (ASNOM) was held in the Monastery of St. Prohor of Pcinja. At this session, the foundations of the modern Republic of Macedonia were established, as a member of the Democratic Yugoslav Federation.
The first Macedonian Constitution adopted on December 31, 1946, declares the People's Republic of Macedonia as a state - a constitutive member of the Yugoslav Federation. In accordance with the Constitution of April 7, 1963, it was named as Socialist Republic of Macedonia and remained such until June 7,1991 when the Assembly passed a constitutional amendment deleting the designation "Socialist" from the state's name, establishing its present name - Republic of Macedonia.
PLURAL ELECTIONS
In accordance with the new Law on Elections and the new Law on Political Organization of Citizens, first democratic plural elections were held on November 11, 1990.
DECLARATION ON SOVEREIGNTY
In January 25, 1991, the new multi party Assembly adopted the Declaration on Sovereignty of the Republic, which, among other things, defines the Republic of Macedonia as a sovereign state, which decides independently about its future relations with the states of the other peoples of Yugoslavia, in accordance with its own interests,
REFERENDUM
After the dissolution of the Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia, to which pertained the Republic of Macedonia, the Assembly of the Republic of Macedonia proclaims a referendum on which the citizens had to decide for a secession from the Yugoslav federation and for the proclamation of an independent Republic of Macedonia.
At the referendum held on September 8, 1991, more than 90% of the citizens that voted were in favor of a sovereign and independent Republic of Macedonia.
Based upon the results of the referendum, the Assembly of the Republic of Macedonia, in September 17, 1991, adopted a Declaration on Independence. The Declaration states that the Republic of Macedonia as a sovereign and independent state will strive for consistent observance of the generally accepted principles of the international relations contained in the Charter and other documents of the United Nations Organization, the CSCE Final Act from Helsinki and the CSCE Paris Charter, and that this will be the basis of its international relations.
THE CONSTITUTION
In November 17, 1991, the Assembly of the Republic of Macedonia adopted and proclaimed the new Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia, which confirmed the state's name, and the Republic of Macedonia was defined as a sovereign, independent, democratic and welfare state. The sovereignty derives from the citizens and belongs to them. The Republic of Macedonia is organized in accordance with the principles of modern democratic and parliamentary states. The Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia follows the principles of a democratic political system and there is a multiparty parliamentary system.
DECLARARTION ON INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION
In December 19, 1991, the Assembly of the Republic of Macedonia adopted a Declaration on the International Recognition of the Republic of Macedonia as a Sovereign and Independent State.
ADHESION OF THE REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA TO THE UN
The Assembly of the Republic of Macedonia in July 29, 1992, passed a decision on the membership of the Republic of Macedonia in the United Nations Organization as a sovereign and independent state. Shortly after that, the President of the Republic of Macedonia submitted a formal application for admission of the Republic of Macedonia as a member of the UN. The Republic of Macedonia was accepted as member of the UN in April 8, 1993. The Republic of Macedonia has accepted the Declaration and other UN documents, the principals of the modern international relations and the existing standards within the international law.
INTEGRATION IN THE EUROPEAN UNION
One of the strategic orientations of the Republic of Macedonia as a state and of its citizens is the integration in the family of European nations, where we belong both geographically and from a civilizing point of view.
As a result of the democratic processes in the state and of its contribution to the stability and peace in the region, the Republic of Macedonia has done its first step to a full integration in the European Union and in Euro Atlantic structures, by signing the Stabilization and Association Agreement with the EU on April 6, 2001.
MACEDONIA FOR THE MACEDONIANS
NEVER HELLENIC NEVER GREEK NEVER PROSFIGIAN NEVER