<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

Question: Anybody else sense the Counter-Coup is Underway

May 23 2002 at 9:12 AM
felix19  (Login felix19)
issues

 
even now?

Just a sensation....

No evidence

Back to CHANDRA, now!

 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply

(Login BrendaStarr)
issues

We can only hope.

May 23 2002, 11:39 AM 

* *

 
 Respond to this message   
serious observer
(Login sfrash)
issues

chinks in the armor

May 23 2002, 12:39 PM 

Polls still say Americans still have great faith in George W. Bush and his team. I wish I could say in some sense at all I felt the same way. Naturally, most of us here have a problem with Bush in general, but even my most generous instincts toward "The President" (as in, some level of respect for the personage that holds the position at any given time), I am shocked and disappointed (though not surprised) at the amateurish handling of this most important event in our nation's history.

Even if Bush is not involved, his level of uninvolvement is nearly as criminal.

Just as Watergate took a while to fester before it really took hold, and just as George Bush Sr. faded from the inflated "wartime" imagery, I think GWB is on the long slippery slope to oblivion. It will take some time.

It's just me, but I think more and more people will slowly get the picture that these people they've trusted and rallied around are either stupid, lazy, disengaged, distracted, or lying to us. None of these scenarios bode well for the administration. Despite the force-fed spin (which is becoming more apparent), real people eventually do see behind the curtain.

Bush is again being portrayed every now and again as a bumbling know- nothing and his vaunted team, who was supposed to make up for his shortcomings, are looking like the keystone cops.

At a time of great collective nervousness, I think a great many Americans want to believe that GWB can somehow lead us through the wilderness. Right now, it's because he's the one in the Big Chair. Remember too, that his party loves him. I do not believe, however, that Bush is unassailable.

Come the 2004 primary season, when others question Bush's methods and motives and present other ideas, and other faces of leadership, I think Bush will find himself in a world of trouble. It won't be a cakewalk, but I think Bush is beginning to suffer some deserved dents.

Keep up the good work!

 
 Respond to this message   
ls
(Login longstocking)
issues

throgg's signature is starting doing a number in my head

May 23 2002, 5:13 PM 

and getting under my skin.

"mundus vult decipi"

can it be true that people want to be deceived? is 911 still so traumatic that people rather be in denial and not want to know that our leaders failed to take actions that could have prevented it? is the possibility that the tragedy could have been averted so uncomfortable for some people to even consider?

personally hard for me to fathom since i rather have the painful truth than to be sitting in the dark and ignorant. it's the not knowing that makes me worry, (wonder if there is a latin phrase for that). i think most of us feel that way or else we wouldn't be in a forum like this one. one of the ways i coped with 911 was to try to get informed and read up on where the anger that fueled the attack was coming from. but i think there is some truth to that saying. some people just don't want to know.

november will tell us wether people value the truth over their comfort zone.

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login Stanjs)

We are backing losers

May 23 2002, 8:37 PM 

I'm tempted to give up. Our Democrat leadership is failing us. They act like wimps! Bush gets everything he wants. The Repugs have a well oiled mafia type political machine running. Where is the fight in the party? How can Americans buy the lies? Now Bush gets the trade bill pushed thru with little effort at all. I'm close to retiring but our kids won't have decent jobs, the way things are going. We need a third party that has some guts!

 
 Respond to this message   
serious observer
(Login sfrash)
issues

dullards

May 24 2002, 1:32 PM 

Third parties, unfortunately, are not the option. Look what happened in 2000! Ralph Nader had a perfectly good point in that, if Al Gore couldn't win that no-brainer of an election by himself, why should it be the Greens problem? They had their own message to push.

But Green votes may have made the difference between Gore, a pragmatic environmentalist, and Bush, an avowed industrialist. Smart thinking.

In Canada, the opposition forces are split between four different parties and none of the pack enough clout to worry the governing party. The conservative opposition is split between the right-wing western-only Alliance party (which will never govern because they can't appeal to anyone but the western rednecks) and the once-powerful Conservative party, which is on a very slow rebuilding track but is constantly being threatened with being eaten by the Alliance. What this means is the ruling Liberals have become fat and lazy because no one effectively holds their feet to the fire. They have absolutely no fear of defeat. This isn't healthy in a democracy.

Here in America, the right-wing consolidation in the GOP means most of their ducks are lined up. They don't have fractious fights. But you're SO right, that our leadership are often dullards, speaking in hushed, mealy-mouthed tones. Where are the fiery orators? Daschle? Gephardt? Leiberman? Leahy? Where is the indignation? Kennedy? Dodd? Clinton? Torricelli? Where are the ideas? Feingold? Davis? Kerry? Where is the strategy? Sharpton?

The Democrats are not devoid of talent, but effective new leaders are not cultivated and the party has far too much emphasis on being nice instead of being effective. Who have they sent into battle, besides Bill Clinton? Walter Mondale. Michael Dukakis. Al Gore. Who were the challengers for those nominations, excepting Jesse Jackson. The likes of Alan Cranston, John Glenn, Dick Gephardt, Paul Simon, Paul Tsongas, Bruce Babbitt — all intelligent and capable, but hardly an inspiration or a firebrand among them.

Let's hope that someone who knows how to campaign and how to win, like Bill Clinton did, is not a singular super nova the likes of which we won't see again. The GOP has the spark and no brains. The Dems have braisn but no spark and, as any advertising exec will tell you, Americans will choose spark over brains any day.

 
 Respond to this message   
felix19
(Login felix19)
issues

This morning's Pentagon Briefing with Somber Rummy and

May 24 2002, 2:40 PM 

a JCS vice chair looking dour was interesting. Rummy opened with a canned speech about fighting terrorism that seemed dead and dull, but claimed there were 68 countries supporting us... out of what? 190? Eeek.

Then some stuff about India/Pak claiming they share an interest in "fighting terrorism" so they should get over their spat with one another and move on. "War is not an option between two nuclear armed powers."

Some claims that N Korea was spreading false rumors about missing American troops in Pakistan or Afghanistan; shame on them. (But what about all the false(?) stories about captives and body-bags that appear in the Pakistani press all the time?)

Rummy played his usual word-games and got snippy and so forth with his interlocutors, who themselves seemed to be annoyed with the lack of information from the DoD and yet seemed to recognize there was something distinctly off at this briefing.

In mentioning Memorial Day, Gen Pace said something very odd to my mind:

"Those of us who wear the uniform today have to re-dedicate ourselves to this country and those who went before us. We will not betray the wonderful legacy and freedom that we have inherited." BIG sigh from Rummy. And the General was clearly shaken.

Neither would confirm or deny the shelving of Iraq invasion plans, but Rummy was on the defensive. The General kept referring to responsibilities all over the world and claimed that the armed forces were ready for any action the civilian heads asked them to do. No "invasion of Iraq" has been requested.

At the end, it was like a funeral.






 
 Respond to this message   
Current Topic - Question: Anybody else sense the Counter-Coup is Underway
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Find more forums on PoliticsCreate your own forum at Network54
 Copyright © 1999-2009 Network54. All rights reserved.   Terms of Use   Privacy Statement