Its a miserable sort of cold rainy day today.
Chance to work on the Shay
As you know I have been working on my Shay.
I had the car perfectly level after I had done the driver's side coil.Thats where I had cut 1 coil off.I maybe should have left it at that.I finally got to do the other coil.Last night I cut the coil the same and put it back together.Much to my surprise the car is high on the right side.I removed the coil and cut some more off.Still high and a few choice words I removed the coil and cut some more.It was close to 2 coils being removed.This was done by educated guess work as to how much to cut.It is now back to perfectly level.I'm getting pretty efficient at this as I did this in less than an hour.A real good penetrating oil sprayed on all fastners the day before is a good idea as it sure helps even to loosen the ball joint fitting.Still took some serious blows from the hammer.
Now I have come to a conclusion.If both coils are the same and there is no difference the car should have set level.
I surmise then in most of the Shays the chassis is out.If you remember I had to use my ram to lower the bottom A arm on the drivers side.The A arm may have been over tightened but I did not check that out.On the right side the coil almost fell out with the lower A arm hanging.
Of course this may be only related to my Shay.
Anybody have any insights on this?
Anyone having so much fun with the coil springs?
Like to hear about it
Chuck

Hi Chuck,

Sounds like you're having fun???

I won't be changing my coil springs for a month or so due quickly approaching vacation and trip to Connecticut, but I think you have found out why there are TWO PAGES of instructions on levelling a Shay in the MODERN A ASSEMBLY MANUAL....Besides, I'm waiting for your final chapter of the "learning curve" so I won't have to swear!!! I'm not going to install the new coils myself so I'll pay a mechanic that knows what he's doing and save myself any stress....

Don't want to have to go to CONFESSION for using the 4-letter word dictionary!!!

I agree that all Shay's were built "out of whack" to some extent as the assembly methods didn't require "ROCKET SCIENCE" but some built in frustrations.

Reggie

Hi Reggie
Oh yes it is so much fun.At least I have it beat.Even the fenders are now close to being even.
I had gone out to put my tools away and I decided to look at the coils I had taken out.They are exactly the same height and same thickness.At 13000 miles I now believe it was not the coil loosing its integral strenth.I certainly now believe it is the chassis being out.
As it now sits I cut one coil off the drivers side.The passenger side has the coil now at 10.5 inches long as sitting on the bench.However I caution that you just don't go and cut too fast.I think you will need to cut the drivers side by one coil for sure.This then will set your measurement at bumper height 1 inch lower at the front then the back.If you want more rake you can cut as much maybe as a coil and half.I wouldn't advise more.Then you can play withthe passenger side coil to get the car level.It may take a couple of tries.So yes it can be fun.
I measure at the very outer edge of the bumper where the bumper starts to roll around the bolt.I'm working on a level floor so I am not worried about one side being different than the other.
As to the manual advising how to cut the coil the principal is right.However I still would R and R to cut the coils.A C clamp to compress the spring is absolutely ridiculous.You need a spring compressor of some kind.I have one I use that works but do not need to use with the Pinto/Mustang II a arms.You still will need to rotate the spring and try that while they are under pressure.
I now am completely happy with where the car is now.Just need good weather especially on Sunday as its our big swap meet and we need the good weather.Mind you the facilty guarantees we break even.Thats the Red River Exibition grounds.They are super sponsors
Enjoy the day.
Chuck

Chuck,

Thanks for the information and update.

I've probably mentioned many times for all you from states other than Florida to head south.

Aside from hurricanes, snakes, alligators, extreme humidity, old people and snowbirds, it's a great place to reside.

All you men can wear shorts for the remainder of your natural lives!!! UNLESS, your legs are best left covered!!

We have a great AACA Region in town and car shows nearly every weekend day of the year in our area and I go to around 50-75 per year without driving any further than 30 miles north or south.

Reggie

Hi Reggie
Your welcome to what ever information I can bring to the forum.
Its getting cold as I was trying to do some yard work seeing I can't go to do some other stuff.
Thanks for the invite to Florida
I hate snakes and don't care for alligators and who wants hurricanes.
Here we are 10 minutes away from cross country skiing in the winter in one of our many provincial parks.We take the motor home and apres ski seems so much better in it.We are still young lovers stuck in these getting older bodies.
I don't care to wear shorts too much unless I'm doing yard work.Don't like sandals either.
We have car nights a couple of times a week.There is lots of show and shine shows.The big Rod Orama was last week.Our club has had invites to our club only events.There is pretty well some event every week.One could find the summer gone if one tried to attend them all.
End of June should see us with the Sunbeam at the International meet at Rapid city SD.Many people and old friends to catch up with not to mention meeting new friends that we know but have never met.
Seems I ended up with 3 grandchildren today as my wife and daughter in law are at my wife's sister's place.This means I better go and get some lunch started.Easy lunch as its KD with smokies.
Enjoy today
Chuck

Chuck,

Sounds like you're busier than I am.

I'll be away from Florida for a month visiting family and friends in Connecticut.

Reggie

Dropped spindles are also available. My PU has a set and there is no fooling with spring rates and heights. As far as the chassis not being "square, plumb, level, etc." that is a real possibility. It is also very important that you measure from the frame and not any bolt "ons" like the bumper. What Shay did to make things fit, like the doors, was to shim the body. My PU was shimmed so high on the passenger side that the body was 1" higher on the passenger side than on the driver's side. Made both sides equal at the cowl and then shimmed the rest to help correct the poor door closure. Finally, I had to cut the latches out, reposition them and reweld. The doors now open and close with little or no effort. I needed to do this so that I could have the top frame fit in both the up and down positions.
While I was at it, I also attacked the poor fitting hood. Found out the passenger side mounting bracket for the radiator was not in the correct position. The passenger side was lower than the drivers side, which allowed the hood to "slant" back as it was closed. Relocated the bracket and the problem was solved. Also, the hood sheet metal was cut wrong so that the hood can not be positioned correctly - front to back. The hood needs to be squared off in the front - did that and the hood fits much, much better. When and if I get around to repainting the truck, I will do more work on the hood to make everything fit.

Hi Rob
Thanks for your comments
I squared the car to level.I set the bumpers to level.The hood fits perfect after I made minor adjustments.The top fits perfect and is easy to secure.No fiddling around to line it up.
I want to keep my Shay pretty well as stock.
As to front ends with spindle changes. A arm design,geometry changes I'm well up on that.I'm on my 3rd much modified front end for my sunbeam Tigers. Basically I wanted to eliminate the ackerman angle problem that came with the Tiger.
I will be looking more into the chassis to see if it is perfect or not this winter.Regardless if both coils are the same all the A arms should sit at the same height.This is where I feel the chassis is not perfectly squared.
Right now I just want to enjoy the car.
Chuck

And whats wrong with OLD PEOPLE and SNOWBIRDS REGGIE ???

Aha...Someone read the whole item...With a delayed reaction!!! Got to watch what I write so I don't receive any disagreeable notes.

About those old folks....Seeing that it was meant to be funny, at least a few people thought so, including me, and the fact that I'm one of those old farts I refer to, probably nothing but greatness....For the record, the average age of our 21,000 citizens here in Venice, Florida is 68.8...Most men are either bald or have white/gray hair..The gals prefer hair color so you don't see many gray haired gals, just lots of blondes.

Snowbirds are great for the economy....

That's it..I'm out of words and my wife is calling me to vacuum the house!!!

Reggie

GOTCHA REGGIE !,
I am both old and a snowbird from Prince Edward Island Canada and I was only teasing ,I had my Shay roadster coupe out yesterday between freezing & not quite freezing yesterday and got 90 miles in b4 it got dark,wish I had 12 months in Florida so I could drive them daily .Have a great week .
PHJ

Hi Paul,

Love your humor...I like to joke but sometimes it's not seen the same way as it's presented.

We always joke about there being 2 seasons here in Southern Florida, SUMMER and SNOWBIRD!!! I guess I can't call myself a real Floridian as we moved down from Connecticut 6 years ago.

As far as your home, we made a trip to visit friends on P.E.I. a few years back...It was a beautiful place and it impressed us...We did some of the tourist things and went to see Ann of Green Gables but she wasn't home!!!

Hope you enjoy the times you're able to get out your Shay....Don't forget, if you want to drive it all year round, COME ON DOWN!!!!

Take care, and regards from the old guy!!

Reggie

Rob , appreciate your comments on hood alignment. It will give me some places to start looking. Driver's side fits cowl area good but seems a little "short" at the bottom as it is difficult to get latches hooked. Passengers side seems long enough but there is a bulge away from the cowl around where top and side are hinged. Also, is it possible to get a copy of the Modern A Assembly Manual Somewhere?

Thanks, Rob H.

Rob, I don't think a Model A manual will be of much help. According to what I've read, the Shays were assembled by workers who were less than skilled. That said, it will be up to you to figure out why your hood does not align properly. For example, was the rear hinge located properly [in the middle of the cowl] or was it off center or does it need to "be" off center because of some issue with the hood. Things like that can drive crazy until you can get a handle on it. Patience - Patience.
Rob