| Original Message |
Boyd Allen (no login)
Posted Apr 2, 2009 11:20 AM
You previously wrote "Reconciliation against our will may be the most exciting theme for this new "Cheap Grace" doctrine, but it is not a doctrine from the Bible." then you say that God is going to force people to repent.
I'd like to ask you something. How does one repent? How do you force someone to love God? Without grace and reconciliation, you can't.
I'm not sure what you meant by "reconciliation against our will", and you say that grace is not of the bible, then go on to say that the bible lays a strong foundation for our discovery of grace. How can one discover grace through force? Is not grace something we discover by living through the process of grace in our lives? By needing it disparately ourselves? Paul pointed out the flaws of grace, it may very well give some people the idea that if too much grace abounds, then will not sin be more attractive? Will more people sin because grace abounds? But he does not say to stop giving grace, but to understand what grace is and live a grace life, without sin. But sin is something we face every day. So our judgment, when is meant to be carried out by God, not by us, should first be given with grace, not condemnation. "For I did not come to condemn the world but to save it" Jesus said.
God does pour out his anger and justice, against sin. But the sinner, he extended grace. Jesus was so disturbed by sin, that he nailed it and killed it on the cross. He bore ALL our sins, every sin that ever existed and ever will, and destroyed it on the cross. His vengeance has been met.
"He did it in Noah's generation and he has promised to do it again." Really? Like in the days of Noah? Then what is the rainbow for? Go back again, and read those promises.
We are taking God's sacrifice out of his hands and trying to save the world with our own works and justice. The extreme religious right wants to mix politics and religion, when that is the worst thing that can happen. There is no grace when the religious right tries to force Christian "values" on the rest of the world. There is no grace in that at all. It is all works, all legalism, and no way to harness love out of all this. All it does is recreate the middle ages.
There was a famous leader of a country who forced his country into Christian values, such as no pornography, no movies, no alcohol, and he refrained from drinking and smoking and such "vices". He put a nationwide ban on these horrible things that the National Religious community supported and praised him for. He burned books that was not Christian in nature. Then proceeded to clean up anything and anyone he felt was not of his righteous caliber. His name was Hitler.
We can force people to follow "Christian" rules, but we cannot lead them to the Father without grace. Lots and lots and lots of grace.
Often, we focus too much on the problems around us, the "non-kingdom" of God rather than focusing on the Kingdom of God right now.
Jesus and Paul both had issues in those days that were far worse than today. Abortion? Today? Nothing by comparison to what was going on then. Then, they let the baby come to full term, are born, then toss them out alive by the road for the wild animals. Child porn? Then, older men had sex slaves of younger boys. Both were legal and accepted then. How much does the bible talk about these things? How much did Jesus or Paul talk about them? They didn't say much at all. In fact, nothing really. Paul did say something about same sex practices, but nothing about the boys and older men. And not a word about the children being tossed by the road. Except maybe in the old testament where God talked about Israel being the baby tossed to one side.
Now I'm not condoning these practices, I'm just pointing out how much they were talking about grace and love for humanity that eventually, speaking of the Kingdom of God by their immediate lives, they can change the world with good news and the world in turn will learn these practices are wrong. NOT because an old Mosaic law says so, but because the love and grace of God is in them, and they cannot do these things. Grace so abound in their lives that grace spills out to their children, so children will be loved and protected, not tossed to the wild animals. Grace begets grace, law begets condemnation and death.
That is why I focus on grace and reconciliation.
Boyd
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