We are a Christian family and live on the West coast of Florida. We have three children. Youngest, Maggie is three and a half; next is Beth who is five and Scott who is seven. Since our backyard is secluded our children have never worn bathing suits when swimming alone. Scott generally ditches his pjs during the night. We generally go to a somewhat secluded beach once a month - as we enjoy the peace and quiet. Last time at the beach Maggie removed her bathing suit and was soon joined by Beth as they played in the Gulf and in the sand. When Scott headed for the water he removed his speedos and didnt want to put them on when he came out. As the day wore on a few other families came on the beach and some of their young child removed their swim suits. It all seemed so natural (and I must say I was somewhat envious), but is it okay and up to what age on a "public beach"?
I'm not sure where on the west coast of Fl. you are. I spent a lot of time nude on Ft. Desoto beach in years past, but T.A.N has drawn a good deal of attention to that beach. Bottomless is not legal for any age in Fl. but tops aren't required for girls until age 10. As an aside my baby daughter and her best friend both were 36's before they were 10. When they went to the beach they would take their student ID and a birth certificate just in case they wanted to be topless. If you have a beach where others, don't care or are in fact joining in, you have done well. We spend most of our nude time at Cypress Cove. Nice place and very family oriented unlike some of the places nearer to the west coast. Bearone
I realized after I posted the preceeding that it may sound more like two pre teens with good bodys. That was not the point! The point is the law! A less endowed 30 year old would be arrested while a pre teen would be exempt. Laws are to protect the people but it seems odd that one group should be guilty while another is exempted. Bearone
Bearone - thank you for both of your posts. Your reference to the "law" was interesting. Can you tell me where you found the information? Sounds like your daughter and her friend enjoyed their youth - it truly passes so quickly. I want the twins to feel comfortable and enjoy their childhood. Thanks again.
Bearone - after I sent my reply I noticed I had typed "twins" instead of "kids". Guess I was thinking about my cousin who has two year old twins. I told her about my three kids at the beach and she was shocked and appalled. She won't event let the twins be nude with her in the backyard pool. Sorry.
Sue, the NAC website has a link for Fl. law but does not spell out the example I gave. The info from tera might help also. The 10 Fl women who are sueing will be of special interest. The youngest was 10 when arrested. There case made a point about the under 10 issue.
Sue - I read your post with interest. Even your typo "twins" instead of "kids", perhaps God let you do that for it reminded me of my experience with my twins. We are born again Christians and have been blessed with twins, a boy and a girl who turned five this past spring. My huband and I enjoy the shore (we live in NJ) and often go to Island Beach State Park and sit away from the crowds. We enjoy the sun and the surf and prefer minimal swim attire. We waited three years to take the twins to the beach (mostly I think to get my body back into shape). It was a beautiful day and the twins had on matching bathing suits. We "set up camp" and soon the twins were busy getting wet and playing in the sand. All of this ended in about 30 minutes as they began to shiver and get irritable. In order to "save the day" I reluctantly suggested to my husband that we remove their bathing suits. He said he just had the same thought. He took Jared and I took Corrine and we removed their wet suits, towel dried, dusted off the sand and re-applied sun screen and told them to go play. They did and we had a wonderful day. Each visit since the twins wear only a T shirt and that gets removed. We stayed at the shore one week when they were four and two weeks when they were five (this past summer). They have never worn bathing suitssince that first time and we always bring a stash of T shirts so we can cover them when they get chilled, too much sun and for nap time. I am telling this to encourage you and your cousin. I thought keeping them covered was being a perfect mom. For me, for us, for them I am glad I gave up that "perfect mom" role and let them enjoy themselves.
Many people stop, look and smile at the twins. Only one senior citizen stopped to comment. She grew up on a farm in NJ during the 30's and never knew what a bathing suit was until she went off to a regional high school. Her comment, "I'm glad they can enjoy themselves. They grow up so quickly."
On our two week vacation this past year we always bathed them before snack and bed time. Neither Jared nor Corrine wanted to get dressed after their baths, so we didn't force the issue. A few night they were so tired they fell to sleep nude. We always put pj shorts on them. Somehow Jared everynight managed to wake up nude. This freedom was restricted to our annual vacation and day trips to the beach. Then my husband and I began to talk and we have since (only a few months now) been much less restrictive at home about having to keep them dressed all the time. A robe after a bath seems to be fine, and both enjoy prancing around the house nude. We give them a choice and most nights Jared prefers to sleep nude, Corrine only when it was hot. So I guess we too are learning and growing and letting our children have some freedom within our home. Perhaps your cousin will find this as time goes by. We and I think our kids our enjoying this freedom.
I think it was a matter of survival skills. Trying to keep the twins warm and comfortable at the beach. Since my huband and I enjoy the beach, the sand, the sun, the surf so much we "had" to do something to survive. It was just a natural response that has been an enjoyable experience for our kids. In fact Bob and I are a little jealous, but don't ever think we will be ready to go or to take the twins to a clothing optional site. For now that will be our home.
The senior citizen was indeed an encouragement to me. I guess we are always waiting for negative comments from people. She enjoyed telling her story.
Perhaps we have one more summer of this style and then I guess we will try bikini bottoms for them for a few years. Winter is setting in up here and we all miss the warm summer days.
Oops! Sorry Mike and anyone else that I confused. This is only my second posting ever and what I wanted to do is to be sure that my posting ended up in the chain that was started by Sue. So I put her name where I should have put “mother of twins”. My ramblings should not be associated with Sue.
It's not required, but it does make it easier to keep the indians and cowboys separated if you put your e-mail address in the box. And could one of you ladies help Bulldog with his question as to what age his grandchild should crawl. Also the obvious in all of these Q&A's is to pray before you act! Bearone
Double Blessed - mother of twins: I have thirty plus years on your twins. My mom told me that when I was about five she couldn't keep me "clothed" at night. I am not sure why this is so important to parents but it is. She eventually gave up. Even now as an adult I am so much more comfortable nude at night but could never "freeball" (guys without underwear). We are all different, even your twins. Continue to relax and let them enjoy being who they are. Sounds like you are on track. Mike
That is a great story. We have already decided our children (at any age) will live optionally when it came to being dressed or undressed at home, unless we have company that is not "nude friendly". We are hoping for a boy next.
I would have also supported the twins by telling those who did apose: They were created by God together naked, they grew together in the womb for 9 months naked, they were born naked, and if it's OK with God, then they have been given the Birth Right to be nude together."
Boyd - I never thought of it that way. Thanks. Having a boy and a girl is great. Hope God honors your request. As you knows they are alot alike and yet very different. Jared is much freer in his comfort level being nude, such as sleeping and prancing about the house. While Corrine is comfortable she likes her nude moments but also her textiles.
I have never answered a discussion board before. I am nearly 80 years old and have never been married. I do attend church every Sunday. My closest experiences with naturism have been swimming as a youth at the YMCA where during men’s swim bathing suits were optional. I never saw anyone ever wear one <why would anyone ever want to wear a bathing suit if he didn’t have to is beyond me>. Another experience I had was when I was 15 and on a swim team I was trying to get the attention of a certain 13 year old girl so I removed the string in my racing swim. As I planned it came off as I dived off the racing block. In the race I came in fourth and was announced as the swimmer in the white suit. I didn’t get the girl either, but as I think back 65 years it is a fun memory. My last experience, if you want to call it that, has been for 50 years I have been sleeping nude.
I retired to Florida in 1987 and have almost every day since been walking on the beach for several hours each day. I usually walk on beaches between Ft. Lauderdale and Hallendale. The older I’ve gotten the less I walk and just watch people. I want to share my observations maybe they will help. During the past 16 years I think people have become more casual and free in public. At my apartment complex when I first moved in I would see women laying breast down with their bra strap unhooked. Today it is not all that uncommon for me to see them on their patio <which is only semi private I guess they know that> without a top and if they turn over they are wearing a thong. This includes many girls who are school age as well. As I walk the beaches I see more and more people getting changed on the beach. Parents will shower their young offspring naked without any thought. During the off season many moms of pre-school children meet together with their children. When it is warm enough and it often is they let there children play nude in the water and in the sand. I once asked a group of moms and they told me that it was just a whole lot easier to let them play naked. Also more and more I have seen children, I guess between 4 and 8 or so just wearing bikini bottoms <although some look a bit older I’m not sure if they are just maturing earlier or what>. Speedo style shorts for the young boys are getting very popular and make a lot of sense. When I have traveled in Europe such as in Germany the kids after they are potty trained run naked as jay birds in the parks, backyards, gardens and swim naked in public pools when it is warm enough. They seem to do this until about 6 or 7. To be a kid clothed is the exception in these settings. I guess these are my observations or what I can remember for now. I think overall this new freedom is better and more natural. While I do not want to relive my life I wish I had a freer upbringing then my strict Dutch parents gave me.
Yes indeed, Nearly Four Score, those are some observations! How very thoughtful of you to take the time and share your observations. You have added much to our discussion. We are honored that you choose to give us your view point as your first post. Thanks for including the boy in the white suit story. Sue
Don't let this be your last post. We want to hear more. The "boy in the white suit" story is wonderful.
I'm glad to hear of more openness where you live. Hopefully it will continue to spread. Why the youngest children need swimming suits (and why girls of two or three need tops) totally escapes me.
We've observed the same thing in Europe. They seem to have a better understanding than we do of the proper use of public fountains: they're for children to play in.
We were at the Eifel Tower on a terrifically hot summer day. Nearby there's a wonderful set of fountains that were being well used by both children and adults. Little children weren't wearing anything. Older children and men kept their undershorts on. Women were a bit more modest, but some still joined in the fun.
I thank you all for your encouragement. I agree why do little kids need to wear anything at the beach or the pool as long as theyre potty trained. And little girls as you said don't need to cover up their tops until they are around ten. Europeens do seem much more free, altho I do see it getting freer here at least on the E. Coast of Fl. I just know if I ever had kids that I would want them to be free and enjoy their childhood day, those carefree days go by so quickly.
You're doing great. Your children are learning to be comfortable with their bodies, instead of being taught—as so many are—that there is something shameful about the bodies that God gave us. Keep it up.
The beach that you mentioned is "somewhat secluded." That you made an appropriate choice is supported by the fact that others who came let their children also swim nude. And why not?
As long as you are in secluded areas, you've probably got a couple of years yet before you have to tell your son to keep his suit on. If you go to a beach that attracts a lot of people, you may have to hold back a bit on your kid's freedoms: there are nuts out there who will call the cops sometimes. Though truthfully, if it happened, I suspect that you'd just be told to get some clothes on your kids.
Luvnaturism, I guess we all long for confirmation and your "applause" was certainly that. When what began as an extension of our backyard freedom for the kids extended to the beach we had very mixed feeling. One we were very excited that they could feel so comfortable. This comfort was something neither my husband nor I had known as children. Following the excited good feeling was "is this okay for the kids"? We want to be good parents. We are not comfortable with a totally nude environment for our kids but want them to feel free and to have fun as kids your words give us encouragment for maybe a few more years. The t beach remains secluded and we are happy with that environment.Also glad that other children have joined in. The last few weeks I was starting to "grieve" thinking this phase was over. Thanks again from all of us.
Here's something more to think about. Parents generally overlook the fact that right now—while the children are so young—for better or worse they are giving gifts to their own unborn grandchildren. Your kids are learning how to be parents by the way you treat them now.
So when you allow the innocence of childhood to have its natural expression in the lives of your kids, you're preparing them to do the same for your eventual grandchildren. It's a generational thing.
Occasionally at clothing optional beaches we've seen grandparents, parents, and children all enjoying the sun and water together in the most natural way. Part of the gift that is given to generations that way is that the children learn young about the varieties of bodies that are a normal part of life: they become comfortable with the aging process, and with the fact that some bodies are fit, some are not, but all have their own beauty. They grow up just naturally knowing that nudity does not need to equal sex.
All of this tends to produce teenagers and adults who will have better self esteem. They will be less likely to be drawn into premature sexual relations, and are unlikely to see any point to pornography. They will have less of the body shame that is so pervasive in our culture, shame that drives boys to steroids and girls to anorexia. And your kids may well raise your grandkids with the same benefits.
Since you aren't comfortable taking your kids to a fully nude location, don't. You have a responsibility to maintain the limits according to your best judgment.
But please do consider joining the kids for nude swims in the privacy of your own pool. Right now your oldest is young enough that he won't think anything about it if you join in, but that won't last forever.
I don't generally go on the Internet this often, but just had to check after lunch time. So glad I did! Your response "Long View" was certainly something my husband and I believe, that is our children are learning now how to be good parents to our grandchildren. Then you began to dialog about clothing optional beaches and I thought that's not for us, but then you turned it all around and your last two paragraphs were so encouraging and you presented an option. We still like to go to the beach, there is just something about the environment, that we all enjoy so much, but we also have chosen to live in a warmer climate and so we also enjoy the great backyard that God has given us. Your suggestion about nude swims rings a bell and I'm certainly going to talk with Matt tonite. We will have to agree, but I think he is open to at least trying this. Will let you know how the conversation goes. My "grieving" has turned to an excitement. Thanks for your time and advice. Sue
To Luvnaturism, For several years Bob and I have been talking about putting in a pool.We have talked to several people and have gathered some information. Although the pool season is rather short in New Jersey we felt a heater would extend the season a bit. We are thinking rather than take vacations we could use that money for a pool and take day trips to the beach as well. This would give us the best of both worlds. After reading your suggestion to Sue about nude family times at the pool while the kids are young you have given me another push toward a pool. Wouldn't this make a great family Christmas gift? Mother of Twins
A home pool—with the necessary privacy around it—certainly would make a great Christmas gift. However, I suspect that you wouldn't actually get it installed during a New Jersey winter!
Luvnaturism, thanks for agreeing now if I can just get Bob to agree. No we couldn't get it installed during the winter but we could put the building permit under the tree. We have discussed the privacy issue this will have to be a priority, but we have a little over an acre so I think the pool can be placed where it gets lots of sun and privacy. Mother-of-Twins (who have just gone to sleep and so must I...)
I don't want to overwork this, and I promise this will be my last comment on this thread.
My wife and I have had homes with completely private swimming pools for at least 25 years. If you and your family like the water, it can be a wonderful investment.
While you are raising your children, a swimming pool is a wonderful way for them burn off energy. Later in life it can still be very enjoyable for you as a couple. In the summer we like to throw a couple of floating lounge chairs in and just float and read or talk with each other.
Where we live a pool seems to add about half its original cost to the value of a home. There is some cost for chemicals and some effort to keep it up, but the same area in lawn takes some effort also.
Your thoughts and words have been so valuable. The reason I posted here, and I have never done this before, is that the responses seem so helpful, intelligent and considerate. I posted because I am looking for responses, so please don't apologize and don't make this your last post on this thread. This has been, at least for me, a great thread, and you were an important part.
Luvnaturism - just an update. We spent some time yesterday with rope and stakes trying to best position our potential pool. We decided on how we want it positioned. Gotten cold and windy in NJ, decided that we needed to push the thermostat up a few degrees this year when Jared and Corrine are home with us. This will give them a little more clothing optional freedom.The extra cost will be worth it.
Now THAT's exciting—you're out there staking out your swimming pool.
Apart from getting it located for maximum sun exposure, do give thought to something about swimming pool construction that may not be obvious if you haven't done this before. So much of the cost is in bringing construction equipment to the site, pouring decking, installing filtration equipment, etc. that a smaller pool than you really want may not save much money.
We were just planning to put in a lap pool until we realized that we could get 50% more surface area for only 10% more money. Now we have a nice freeform pool that's much better for playing and floating than the lap pool would have been.
You're going to have an exciting winter as you dream your pool into existance.
Luvnaturism wrote: But please do consider joining the kids for nude swims in the privacy of your own pool. Right now your oldest is young enough that he won't think anything about it if you join in, but that won't last forever.
We had a good long talk last night after the kids went off to bed, then we prayed and went to sleep. We both feel very comfortable this morning so the three bears (Maggie, Beth and Scott) will become the five bears (mom and dad). We checked our calendar and the next two weekends, except for church, we are free and weather permitting (it has been in the 80's here)we will take our first nude swim as a family in our pool. I thought we would all go to our rooms and come out with only our robes. Not in any fanfare but very naturally all walk out to the pool and take off our robes and we would all be nude. We will probably keep this time somewhat short so as not to "stress anyone out" and it is getting cooler. Also Matt and I do have some small white patches on our bodies that the kids do not and need to be careful of the sun. They have a great overall tan. Just in case some may wonder, yes their doctor notices each time that they do not have a tan line and each time he smiles, nods affirmatively and then adds "don't forget to use plenty of sun screen". Any of you adults have any "tan line" experience with your doctor? As it looks like Matt and I will be losing those lines. Both Matt and I feel excited and can't wait for the weekend to take the next step in our journey. Your idea was a great one and your words to do it now while they are young got us off the launching pad. We will still enjoy our times at the beach as well. We will be sure to bring a coverup, especially for Scott and hope we wont need it. Thanks again...the Five Bears.
PS - I don't want to monopolize this forum, but let me know if any of you want to know how this went.
Five bears: I am glad you had peace after a night to sleep on it. Now I encourage you to move forward with God's confidence. Love those kids and be ready to answer any questions they might have. Let us hear how it goes. Mike
Sue all that might be prudent with the doctor,if you are rid of those old tan lines would be "you may have noticed we have a private pool area." It works for our family. Bearone
Once again Bearone you came through. It is easy and it is the truth. I'm not known for quick thinking on the spot, this sure will help. Looking foward to this weekend. Thx. Sue & Matt
Dear friends, for that is what you have become. Your thoughts and experience and encouragement have been just super. Was sunny and warm here on Saturday and will be again today. Yes, we did it. The five of us came to the pool wearing only our robes. Then we all went into the pool. Beth (our five year old) was the only one to comment, "mommie's not wearing her bathing suit". Dad and I explained that no one in our family is and that this is okay when we are in our own pool and its just us. She shrugged and said "oh". It was Matt's idea to keep this time short so as not to "stress out anyone" (a.k.a. Dad) - after two hours he was the last one to come out of the pool. By then we were all ready for hot cocoa (by the pool) as we warmed ourselves in the sun and the love we have for each other. It was simply wonderful to be able to do this. I don't know why we waited. Looking forward to some family time this afternoon after Sunday School and Church.Its easy to find our home, its the one with the five beach towels and no bathing suits hanging by the pool. Enjoy this day of rest and togetherness. The five bears.
How marvelous...we look forward to similiar family times next year. Living in NJ limits out outdoor activities, but are trying some indoor freedom times in our family room. Glad you are enjoying your freedom together. Liked your line about the towels and no bathing suits hanging by the pool. Also thank you to Bearone for her words explaining the lack of tan lines when visiting your doctor, I never thought about it.
To all: Once again the five bears had another remarkable weekend, two afternoons in the pool, just the five of us and no wet, clingy bathing suits to put off or on or to wash out or to hang up. Those are just some of the little side benefits. The real beauty is just being free and comfortable as a family. I love to look at my three healthy tanned children and my almost completely tanned husband having fun together. A great holiday and much to be thankful for... Sue
That's great. All of us are happy for you and for your children. You'll find lots of benefits as time goes by, including more readiness on the part of your kids to talk to the parents.
Sue