Romans 14:21 is commonly quoted in church circles to explain why Christians ought to avoid doing something—anything—that might be disapproved by someone else: "…it is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that makes your brother or sister stumble." Not causing someone else to fall in their Christian walk is a high priority in the Christian community, as is right.

Before going further, a word of explanation is in order for those who may not know the Biblical context. In Paul’s time the primary source of meat available to Christians living in Greek and Roman communities were the butcher shops connected with the pagan temples. Meat sold there had been sacrificed to the pagan gods; a small bit was used in the offering, and the rest was sold for use as food. The point of Paul’s comment in Romans is that since the false gods don’t exist anyway, there is no reason for Christians to avoid eating that meat. However, one should not make things difficult for Christians “weak in the faith” by rubbing their noses in it. If someone is around for whom this will be a problem, don’t do it at that time.

There are other verses that have to do with the living of our Christian lives that are less often introduced into discussion. Galatians 5:1 says, “For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.” There were those in Paul’s day who wanted to impose a restrictive set of rules for determining acceptable Christian behavior. Paul said, “Don’t let them do it.” Is this also a verse that Christians should take seriously?

And what does all this have to do with people who are both committed Christians and enthusiastic naturists? Or at least “naturists in waiting”?

A few weeks ago a pastor friend dropped a comment into our conversation. Our talk had to do with my interest in naturism (which he does not share). He referred to a third party, who had recently cited the “eat no meat” passage as creating a requirement for Christians to avoid naturism. Then he cited the Galatians “For freedom…” verse and asked: “If mature Christians always set their examples at the level of those who are weak in the faith, where will the immature ever see an example of what freedom in Christ is intended to be like? How will they ever grow toward a healthier life?”

Indeed. Can people who never see an example of the wonderful freedom that Christ grants us grow to maturity at all?

Many who post in this forum are deeply involved in conservative churches. Some are in ultra-conservative bodies that permit no questioning of the accepted truths, and quickly become intolerant of anyone who is found to be operating outside the prescribed boundaries. The understanding of love and mercy as taught and practiced by Jesus is not in them.

There are other instances in which the church as a whole would do just fine with a naturist in its midst, but the pastor—who has never studied the Scriptures concerning naturism and does not know what he doesn’t know—creates an impossible situation for the highly committed and involved member who has found the spiritual healing that naturism may make possible.

Any of us therefore needs to be thoughtful and prayerful about how, when, and where we share our convictions concerning the goodness and decency of the human body. Some will pay a heavy price if their church leaders find out.

But let us live not just under the restriction of the “eat no meat” verse. “For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.” This will turn out to be the verse that has the most power to lead us to spiritual healing and growth, even if it introduces pain and distruption into our church relationships when we put it into practice.

Thanks for bringing this topic up. "Causing your brother to stumble" (by lusting) is one of my wifes reason she is not interested in naturism.

In order to truely be concerned about this, you would need to lock yourself and kids into your home and never go out as pedophiles could be caused to stumble by seeing your kids, others could be caused to stumble by seeing you... It would never end.

I think the important part of your Romans comment is:

"However, one should not make things difficult for Christians “weak in the faith” by rubbing their noses in it. If someone is around for whom this will be a problem, don’t do it at that time."

I am glad someone brought that up.

You are both right in that we have to look at the context of the verses. Who were they talking to? What were the cultural norms of the day? What were the weaknesses they were challenged with? What were the laws of the land? Did it further the gospel or take away from it?

It is also said, "We should listen to and obey God rather than man" in the book of Acts.

Being a Christian has a balancing act to it.

My real concern is not in the weak of faith in the congregation, but to find out our pastors are weak in faith, that scares me! Here is what my wife and I did:

First, we did NOT go to our pastor at church. I invited him to our home to talk. Basically, I emailed our pastor and said "We need to talk" and that was it. He responded (he knows when I say it like that it is important and private) and said he will come to our house sometime that week. He did.

I then prepared myself with papers, information, prayer, etc. When he arrived, we were both there, husband and wife. We told him as carefully as we could. We then had a surprise that he had no problem with it and was willing to read my web site.

What we did was prepare for the worst, and hoped for a compromise. What we didn't expect was full support and agreement. That was a blessing and surprise!

My point of this however, was that first, we did our homework. Second, we invited our pastor to our home, letting him know that we had something very important and private to talk to him about.

We positioned ourselves to be able to discuss with him, respecting his understanding, and allowing him to be able to work with us without pressure from other issues around him. That gave him the open door to discuss and learn if need be.

No, we were not nude at the time. We were clothed. Good thing, because one of the neighbors girls came over (door was open) and asked to borrow a tool from me.

As for others, we don't go nude for the sake of going nude in front of others if it hurts them. But keep in mind, many do not believe in keeping Christmas, eating pork, eating meat, women wearing pants, etc. But does that stop Christians from doing so? I have NEVER seen ANYONE appologize to me for eating pork or shellfish in front of me, KNOWING that (at that time) it was against my religious beiefs! And guess what? There IS laws in the bible that says we should not eat pork or shellfish (compare to NONE on self imposed nudity)! AND there is no law per-se that says that we can! Yet, Christians conclude from some scriptures about meat (of all things) that says "All food was given by God to eat" and assume that Pork is food! Not if God said it wasn't food in the old testament!

However, I am willing to concede that pork is now OK for food! I still don't eat it, but not because of an old Mosaic law, but because I just don't like it and have gotten used to not eating it. And I don't particularly care to eat sea spiders. I don't eat land spiders, why should I eat sea spiders (a.k.a. crabs, etc.)

Now I don't like eating the stuff. But my wife does. Why should my father in law eat horrible stuff in front of me, but not allow me to be nude?

Here is a good one: Gluttony is a sin! That IS in the bible...and in the NEW Testament! Go to any Golden Corral or any buffet restaurant on a Sunday afternoon! YEEE-HAHHHH! Watch the Christians go to work on that buffet! (Speaking of pork....OINK OINK!)

And I'm guilty too!

But anyway...you get the idea. Somewhere in the old testament, God said "Come, let us reason together".

Boyd

Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. NKJ

As referred to in an earlier comment in this thread if we always focus on the weak and our weaknesses how do we ever strengthen and mature. We must learn to not only recognize our weaknesses but celebrate our strengthes.

I don't know of anyone who does not have a weak area in their life, mine is gambling. I avoid gambling because of this, I find it offensive when people, knowing my thought on this invite me to casinos. Also when they tell me that bingo and the lottery is not gambling. I give grace to those who can enjoy this in moderation and comfort to those who are suffering from its affects whether through their own action or a family member

Areas of strength for me are smoking; cigarettes I can't understand any appeal, cigars, I can enjoys in moderation. Drinking, I avoid hard liquor because it was not originally intened for direct consumption, but can enjoy beer or wine in moderation. I understand these both are areas of weakness for others and avoid partaking in their presence. I do not deny my views on these issues when asked.

I have seen some comment that naturism can be an actual cure for pornography addiction. That I find questionable. If the underlying problem is lust or perversion that problem must be addressed.

Boyd you referred to one of the two biggies GLUTTONY, the other is GOSSIP. Most pastors avoid these topics because with one people will quit feeding you and the other they will talk about you. But both run rampent in the Christian community.

I agree, I had forgotten about the gossip. Glad you brought that up.

The tongue is considered as the most evil of the entire body, yet I don't see anyone controlling it or hiding it. In fact, some are decorating it!

And try this one on for size: Gossiping with your mouth full!

Don't worry, we don't repeat gossip around here, so be sure you listen close the first time!

But seriously, often we keep some scriptures at hand without understanding and forget others such as the one you brought up: "Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. NKJ"

Thank you very much for this scripture.

Boyd "God has recieved us all" Allen

Ronbo,

As a Christian, I drink very moderately. I don't smoke, gamble, visit nightclubs, or sleep around with strange women.

I go to church every Sunday and have enjoyed chats with my pastor who has been a great help with areas of my life that concern me.

You might think there's nothing wrong with me at all. I do have one major problem: laziness and cowardice that has been brought on by my addiction to internet pornography.

When something went wrong in my life in which I felt powerless to change or do anything about it, I turned to cyber-porn.

The worst thing was that I turned my back on everyone that I had known or knew at the time and just wore away my hours accessing porn sites, and it just kept on getting worse and worse.

Having said that, I still go to nudist swim nights and beaches but at the same time I don't confuse that behaviour with my addiction to pornography. Sexually, I have never acted out or upon the things I have seen on the Net.

Recently, I have been looking back at my life and wondering with the education that I had and the talents God gave me why I have suddenly become a shy, insular and taciturn loner.

Also, I wonder if pornography and addiction to it tends to be a bigger problem in European nations, where much of the hardcore stuff is produced. These countries are also the ones that tend to have more of the young and beautiful involved in naturism than America, Australia and the UK does.


Dario Western

Didn't God tell Peter in his vision to not call unclean what He had called clean?
I don't have time right now to go back and look, but didn't He basically give us every animal to eat then?
K

Scene: Peter on the roof top in a fishing town.
He was getting hungry.
He sees fishing boats out there with sails on them.

A sheet (could it be a sail cloth?) comes down from heaven with all kinds of animals.

Scene changes: Three days earlier, a man, a gentile, (considered as "unclean" by the Hebrews) has a vision. He is told to send for a man named Peter. He will be praying when they arrive in Joppa.

This gentile sends three (3) men to Joppa. Again, these are "unclean gentiles".

Back to Peter. This vision is repeated three (3) times (coincidence?).

Peter was called down to meet these "unclean" gentiles.

After understanding the lesson from God, Peter went with them. He then explained to the three men and their master that the Jewish people considered them unclean, but God told him that what God has cleansed, man cannot call unclean.

This story was told in its full, and again, repeated in full, to the detail, to the church leaders back in Jerusalem. The conclusion by Peter was "we should not call those God has called into Christ, unclean, because God has cleansed them." (Paraphrased)

He and the others did not conclude that God made all animals clean for food. They all correctly understood that God has now called the gentiles into repentance and into the body of Christ. That was an analogy. They all rejoiced in the good news! God used one belief to help understand the relationship of the new belief.

Now here is my thought on the matter of "clean and unclean" meats:

Originally (in Moses' day) God told the Isrealites that certain meats were considered as unclean. When you look at the animals structure, you will understand why some were considered as unclean. Most of the "unclean" animals were scavengers or too much fat. All the "clean" animals are vegetable eating animals or had extra stomachs, split hooves or in the case of birds, other characteristics different from scavengers (carn eaters).

In the USA, people would not even think about eating dogs or cats, yet they will eat pork saying the bible claims it clean. There was no difference in the bible between the two. Pigs, dogs, cats, vultures, bears, snakes, monkeys, etc. People will not think of eating giraffs, yet they are considered as "clean" in the bible (based on discription "spit hooves, chew the cud").

Now we took a very important life saving scripture that will bring the gentile nations to Christ...an opportunity wasted by those who decided it meant we can eat pork, not save people.

I am NOT saying that eating pork is wrong today. I cannot justify saying that one scripture in the Old Testament still applies when others do not. We cannot "pick and choose" which is which. Jesus said, "If you break one point in the law, you have broken the whole law". Either see the whole law of Moses as the law of God, or see Jesus Christ as the law of God (New Testament).

But if you decide that the laws of Moses is the law, then you have a lot more than just pork to worry about.

Circumcision, sabbaths, dress codes, ritual washings, sacrifices (which voids the sacrifice of Jesus)....know what I mean?

So I cannot say that the law of "clean and unclean" meats are still in affect, I just cannot say in the New Testament that there is a law that says it's OK either.

We need to keep the context of that scripture where it belongs: Saving people.

boyd

While I agree that the strongest emphasis should be on salvation...
Romans 14:14 should solve the food thing.
K

Don't forget, there is an article on my site called The Book of Romans.

Don't know if that will answer your question, but may further the topic deeper.

Boyd

The primary commandment is to love our neighbors as ourselves. If we have week neighbors, we need to either educate them or conduct ourselves in ways that won't antagonize them.

Any of these verses need to be studied in context. You can say/prove almost anything by jerking verses out of context.

Thank God for strong or flexible neighbors, one of the reasons I retired here.

Ralph