Shortly--I mean shortly-- after my husband and I were married, he suddenly got cold feet. He got very distant and pensive I knew in my spirit he was thinking of leaving me. I finally confronted him and he confessed to it. He said he had realized that he and I had nothing in common. Nothing. He didn't think our marriage was going to work. I was on the verge of losing it, but I calmly explained to him that I loved him and I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him. What we had in common from the get-go was our friendship, our ability to talk to each other, and various shallow things like rock music, movies, and philosophical pursuits (we both like to write). We both aren't christians, no, but we both believe in a loving and forgiving God. We differ about what sin is, but we know evil exists. He believes in Creationism over Evolution and so do I. On top of all that, I told him I loved him unconditionally for who he was and nothing could happen to change my heart. He had to be alone for awhile to think. I spend a 24 hour period in absolute agony. But, I left him alone to think. He came to me, held me in his arms, and said this was his favorite place to be. He'd be stupid to leave someone so inlove with him.
My whole point of this story is if men leave their wives for such a base and shallow reason--She won't be a nudist--then they don't deserve to have wives. Christ should be first in every relationship and a man should love His wife as Christ loves the Church. If my unchristian husband can understand this, then true Christians should know better. Naturism and Nudity don't split anyone up. It says it there in the article that the men's obsession with it split the marriages up. That could happen with anything including such simple obsessions as sports television, having the thermostat set at a certain tempurature, and going out with the guys while the wife is always home with the kids. Those things don't seem important until you realize the trouble starts when one spouse decides it's going to be his/her way or else. It's called arrogance.
(I'm almost done with my rant.) My husband doesn't care whether or not I'm a nudist. And, we'd never go anywhere that had swinging going on. There are resorts out there where families can go and be safe from all of that. It just takes a little research. If anyone did ask me to swing, I'd answer with the Gospel. It'll be an evangelistic opportunity that'll take them by complete surprise. (When I told my sister about my Wreck Beach adventure, she thought I should take Bible tracks with me next time.) I'd never hide my Naturism from anyone or make excuses about where I spent my weekend. If anyone's convictions are serious and their consciences are clear, there's no need for excuses. There will be those who'll find offense but that's about the way with anything. People have been offended with me because of my own convictions concerning a slew of things. When those eyebrows raise, I simply say, "You don't have to agree with me." If they don't want my friendship afterwards, it's okay by me. I have tried and true friends and family who accept me just as I am. That includes my hubby.
From what I read, (not all of it, but enough to come to this) is that they are concerned about the issues that they believe happens to Christian Naturists.
Not all is true. Some may be.
It's like someone disliking an organization or a car or anything because of the experience they had with them. This experience may be true, but it happened 18 years ago! Today, this same organization or car manufaturer, had about 15 years ago changed completely and cleaned up their act. They are a far better, stronger and more dependable, whatever, and are far different from what this person experienced.
Today, (probably years after this experience) Christians are more open, yes, they use different names, but many people do anyway on the net. As for me, I am very active in church, I have friends in both church and naturism, and I have never threatened my "reluctant spouse" with divorce. And we never encourage men (or women) to go without their spouses knowledge. Do not sneak off! that is the fault of many who causes family friction.
Yes, it is true that single men have been ostracized because of the faulty idea that men are there to "gawk" or pick up pretty models that are "obviously there".
Gays may be an issue. But again, men who go alone will find it rather lonely if they go for the wrong reasons.
But this is not always true today. Naturism has changed. And Christian naturism is changing for the better every year. That is why this board exists, to help Christians through this period of change and growth. It isn't easy, and some are still being asked out of their church because of naturism, but for the most part, it is not that big of an issue.
Should China stop their underground Christian movement because of the potential of raids, death and fear? Should they be "more open" about it? Should they stop going to church because of their "reluctant spouses"? Of course not!
Maybe we need to help these people understand where we are today and where we are going, not where we were then.
Some of what they say is true, but look at this statistic: Divorce is HIGHER in Christianity than in non-Christianity (per capita). Can this group account for that?
Did you know that most people who refuse to go to church or accept Christianity as a faith is because of similar "valid" reasons?
As far as I know the normal Christian church will never ever accept naturialism as it is way to close to sexuality, and way to close to freedom for any church to allow their congregation to get into.
So from the first article, I would say almost all church members are secret naturialists rather than open .. and if open they might be able to be part of a church if they aren't elevated to any position of authority.
The Christian church doesn't like nudity, and tries to restrict it to their kind of marriages only.
I really don;t think the church will ever get liberated, but from the prophecy I know shall get more and more hard core law and order, more clothes and more cover-ups and more fears and delusions rather than honesty and love.
I don't hide my convictions and I haven't met anyone on this website who hides their convictions. Does anyone here keep their Naturism a secret?
David,
Here's a thought, too. Again not to be harsh but to be honest: maybe you're hanging out with the wrong crowd. There might be a Christian Naturism fellowship meeting in your area that's more open about its beliefs.
In anycase, I've never attended a church I ever agreed with one hundred percent. I wouldn't let Naturism becoming a dividing factor just like I didn't let my personal beliefs about Communion become a dividing factor. Now, it would be different if I was asked to leave a church because I was a Naturist. I'd leave but I'd leave in peace. I don't insist on anyone having the same convictions as I do.
As for all the stuff about Prophecy and conspiracy, I don't think you and I would agree on a lot of things there. I wouldn't let that divide you and me. The true Church--the true Body of Christ--will be faithful to its Bridegroom whether the various members chose to be dressed or undressed. It's that faithfulness which will keep it united.
I don't hide my convictions and I haven't met anyone on this website who hides their convictions. (But this thread is not about this website but about the article that was hyperlinked to, which did say many many naturialists are secretive about thier Christianity. I went to Wreck Beach on the weekend, and I didn;t meet any open Christians or did I see any Christian jewelry, and so I still think many there were Christian, and hence in many ways most would be secretive Christian naturialists.)
Does anyone here keep their Naturism a secret? (This discussion board is to help people not be secretive, but the website referred to and life itself surely shows that many Christians are secretive about their naturialism .... if they weren;t this web-site would lose part of its reason for being.)
David,
Here's a thought, too. Again not to be harsh but to be honest: maybe you're hanging out with the wrong crowd. There might be a Christian Naturism fellowship meeting in your area that's more open about its beliefs. (Doubtful I live in a small city in the interior of B.C. and my basic concern is missionary work rather than naturialism, but if there was a naturialism meeting close by, we would consider going, if they were loving and receptive and tolerant)
In anycase, I've never attended a church I ever agreed with one hundred percent. (What church is open to naturialism ? I don;t know of any ? which is why I reckon nudists have to form their own and nudists Christian fellowships, because mainline churches are anti-natural. Right ?)
I wouldn't let Naturism becoming a dividing factor just like I didn't let my personal beliefs about Communion become a dividing factor. (Exactly !! But no church allows you to go there naked or would want you talking too openly about nudism... Right ?)) Now, it would be different if I was asked to leave a church because I was a Naturist. I'd leave but I'd leave in peace. I don't insist on anyone having the same convictions as I do. (Yes, I reckon if they knew you were a naturist and promoted it among others, you might be asked to leave, cause that isn;t part of their belief system.)
As for all the stuff about Prophecy and conspiracy, I don't think you and I would agree on a lot of things there. (True, but current events in my opinion does dictate that people are not going to get more liberated and freer and more trusting and open and honest... and I reckon this trend to fear and more restrictions is prophetic) I wouldn't let that divide you and me. (Great) The true Church--the true Body of Christ--will be faithful to its Bridegroom whether the various members chose to be dressed or undressed. (Amen, preach it sister !!) It's that faithfulness which will keep it united. (And it's total honesty of heart and soul and total LOVE for our common LORD and SAVIOUR.. Agreed Sis !!!!)
Hey David,
I read the article and I did respond to it on this thread. Infact, I've been responding to it all along. I think you're accusing me of deviating from the topic which I'm not. The article was one man's experience in Naturism. A man who gave it up. I'm agreeing with Boyd that it's not everyone's experience. I'm disagreeing with you that the article is relating the norm of Christian Naturism and Church today. My evidence is the fact that everyone here, who are Naturist Christians, are not hiding it or being secretive about it.
Actually I think all people are nudists and are just waiting for the chance to take it off and be natural. But Alas as the web site hyperlink mentioned, most Christian nudists are secretive because as far as I know no church allows them to be naked in their services. I know of a few that tried in Oregon, but to no avail. It just hasn;t taken off yet.
And so I still suggest that no church unless you can name one will allow naturialism, and hence secret Christianism among nudists is rampant.... and hence maybe the rule rather than the exception.
Therefore I think the author who generalized about the secret nudists who were Christians is correct. Most on the beaches and resorts tend to keep their religious views secret, unless again you know of open Christian nudists beaches, or even a Christian nudist resort. Hope there are some, but somehow I doubt it.
Do prove me wrong on this, hoping to hear from you....as I could pass them along to my group and groups.
I guess it boils down to what you think secretive means. In my church, I would wear clothes regardless of how I felt about Nudity. Not because I feel I have to be secretive but because not everyone can eat the meat I can eat. It's out of love for those have weak consciences concerning the naked body. All who know me know I support Naturism. With other Naturists, I have been as openly Christian as I've been with any nonbeliever. I don't keep secrets about my love for Naturism or my love for Christ. If you believe that Nudists are having to be secretive because they don't show up to church naked and Christians are being secretive because they don't wear signs to indicate they're Christians on nudist beaches then you've made an opinion based on your perception alone. I'm not taking offense with anything you've said except that you're making big generalities despite this whole board giving testimonies about their experiences in Christian Naturism. Does Boyd say he keeps his convictions or faith secret? Does Spunkylady say she keeps her convictions or faith secret? Have I not said I don't keep my convictions or faith secret?
Are you hiding your convictions about Nudity from your church? Are you hiding your faith from nonbelieving Nudists? If so, it would explain why you believe everyone else is, too. Not condeming you, just saying that it would explain a lot. If you're not hiding your faith or convictions then why are you assuming everyone else is being secretive despite their testimonies here?
Carla, You must again realize I am referring to the website against naturialism and Not Boyd's excellent natural website. Do understand the difference, the extreme difference.
And I am making an easy no brainer generalization that most nudists that are Christian tend to kept in secret, because the weak kneed shallow system church will never accept naturialism. It is for this reason that Boyd's website and other sexually liberated Christian websites are so valuable. As mentioned you can NOT go to church unclothed or any church function unclothed. No large church allows nudity that I know of....
And so Christians usually have to keep their nudity or sexual liberation rather quiet, else they would be booted out as heathen and devils etc...
So do allow me to keep my generality, as I personnally don;t think the majority of Christian nudists openly talk about it like you. I definitely believe you that you do, GOD BLESS YOU for your FAITH.
My comments now to yours in ...(...)
I'm not taking offense with anything you've said except that you're making big generalities despite this whole board giving testimonies about their experiences in Christian Naturism. (No, I'm listening to them and it seems nudism increases your sexual attraction...to this I am in agreement) Does Boyd say he keeps his convictions or faith secret? (NO, God bless him, but then he seems to be an exception which is why this site and he are so valuable and important. Amen ?) Does Spunkylady say she keeps her convictions or faith secret? (NO, she and you and Boyd are OPEN nudist Christians, but I don;t think you represent the majority. You and I are in the minority and have the great priviledge of trying to win others to more openness and honesty and more love. Right ?)
Have I not said I don't keep my convictions or faith secret? (Great, God bless you, let's pray we can increase the FAITH of the majority to do the same ? Amen ?)
Are you hiding your convictions about Nudity from your church? (I don;t go to church, I and we are missionaries and our friends and brethren are all over the place)
Are you hiding your faith from nonbelieving Nudists? (NO, I like you talk to them about my faith in various ways depending on the situation and the Spirit...just the same as you Right ?)
If so, it would explain why you believe everyone else is, too. (NOm I just think we are in the minority, for if we were in the majority this board would be loaded with an immense number of posters would it not?) Not condeming you, just saying that it would explain a lot. If you're not hiding your faith or convictions then why are you assuming everyone else is being secretive despite their testimonies here? (Carla, Carla, I no where stated that people here are secretive, I am agreeing with the hyperlink that church Christians as a majority keep their faith secret, because churches hate nudity and will never accept it, and so church going Christians usually don;t mention it. You do, but most don;t, I can handle this easy to assume truth that the majority are secretive. Why do you think the majority of nudists that are Christian are open about their faith and nudity. What percent do you think are secretive if you see them as a minority. Remember try to be objective rather than thinking in personal subjective terms, in this way you won;t get offended by the discussion.)
Blessings to you for not being secretive.... don;t we wish more people were like you and me and others here..
I know how you feel about us here and about this website. I'm not disputing you on it. I'm just disagreeing with you in that you think we're the minority. I haven't yet to meet any Christian who keeps His Naturism secret. So, my "generalization" is we're in the majority and not the minority. We're going to have to agree to disagree. Shake?...
Here we are the majority and the rule, but do allow me to retain my belief that the majority of Christian nudists are not open about it.
Why simply because the majority of churches do NOT allow their members to openly be nudists. It is against their doctrine and dogma.
Most Christians are associated to some kind of church and don;t want to lose their fellowship over nudity and hence keep it secret.
This means in my mathemtaical opinion that there are a huge number of us that we that are open can reach and bring to a nore open lifestyle.
If all Christians nudists were open like you suggest then, this board would be filled with thousands of posters, and it isn't. This meaning we have much to accomplish and to witness to them about being natural. Amen ? Shake ?
Maybe this website doesn't have more people posting on it because they're posting in other places. Maybe the number of Naturist Christians isn't as big a number as you think. If you're going to be mathematical, then show me the statistics. Otherwise, it's still just perception. I see the majority being open and frank. This website is only an example of it. I'm talking about here in my world, too.
I wish you were right about these tremendous numbers of Christian nudists, Carla. Heaven will be full of them, with our transparent robes of white linen, but in the here and now, I don't think so.
The Christian nudist fellowships look like a great start, but it seems they are fellowships rather than churches. Is that Right ? Are there any pastors or missionaries that are strictly nudists and ministering just to nudists to help them keep the faith of the NATURAL WAY that Boyd and all these sites espouse in truth.
Hmmm.... Interesting anti-naturialism comments, but the whole thing concerns our Western societies unnatural bias against nakedness and honesty and even sexuality.
A Christian marriage is suppose to have the Lord as primary for both lives, and yet the Christian church usually says that our marriage to each other is equal or greater than our marriage to the Lord.
For normal marriages in the world are based on sex and appearances and sexual exclusiveness. And to get married, women are taight to display their wares, and only entice to get the wedding ring.... or do as much as is required to get the wedding ring. So I reckon women are used to displaying and showing their sexual bodies or parts of their sexual bodies.
If they get married, they then do NOT need to be sexual to keep their men. If they become naturially inclined, they might be deemed whorish by some and if it is commonly known they might face criticisms. So women raised in our cultures have to totally rethink our poor unChristian culture if you ask me. They have to realize that sex is not what ties two people together, but love. And our bodies are just like our brothers and sisters.
WE don;t have to be afraid of being with other naked individuals. We won;t be in conflict or competition. Our link to our mate is not because of our so-called beautiful bodies, but goes much much deeper. For our link is suppose to be based on real love and real love for the Lord.
So I reckon, women are harder to c0nvince to be naturialism because of our horrible unChristian upbringing in an anti natural culture.
I'm not sure where you've been going to church, David. I suspect you've been hurt by other Christians and churches a lot. I don't want to add to your pain. I've been to many different denominations in my life and, yeah, they all held that being dressed was modesty. But, that's forgiveable. I was never taught that marriage between a man and woman was greater than or equal to our relationship to the Lord. It's always been taught that Jesus has to come first in every aspect of our lives.
As for women displaying only to get a mate, that just happens. I've known very, very few women (if any) who wear make-up and get dressed-up nice because they're conditioned to do so. They do it because they liked the way they look, same as me.
I see there's much you got to work through and I sincerely want to be able to help you through it. But, it would be more beneficial, in my opinion, if you didn't generalize so much about society and church. Perhaps you could just relate to us the problems you've had concerning Naturism and the specific hurts you've experienced?
David is correct when he speaks of America as a western society. America is very materialist. Materialism is not nudism. But we as a Christian Nudist website are trying to knock down those barriors. This can be in the church or outside the church. I came to this group because of my christian nudist vaules. My pastor's wife knows I run around my house natural. I haven't told her why and she doesn't care why. When I go places with her I say ok give me 10 minutes to be dressed.
America is westernized
Boyd Allen's Christian nudist website is for naturalism
As mentioned, Carla, I don;t go to church and have been a missionary now for 30 some years. Married to the same wife for 25 years and have had five children.
Been to many churches, but still haven;t heard of one that allows nudity or naturialism or any kind of sexual expression whatsoever.
So I was hoping you might have had some good experiences with a small church some where that actually taught more of the Lord's truths about honesty. Why should the strong always have to submit to the weak and the weak in faith. Why can;t the strong just follow the Lord and bind together in a church of praise and nudity, and forget the system church that will alows disallow it.
So YES, I don;t believe in system big churches and until now no one has told me of a naturialist church. Why not start some, my prayers are with you if you do so. We are doing our part and with your fire, you could definitely start one of your own.
I would say as a missionary, that the Lord has commanded us to lead the weak rather than follow their lack of faith and conviction. We follow the Lord and hope and pray we inspire Faityh and searching of scriptures and truth by others. And even ....
Though none go with us, still we will follow, we won't turn back, we won't turn back.
That's the spirit, I see from Boyd's website of courage and conviction. He doesn't condemn the weak for being weak but just espouses the strengths of naturialism and nudism. He doesn't suggest we intentionally offend our weaker brethren with nudity, but writes about history and the Bible and experiences to show the good side of nudity and naturalness. Amen ?
Lets reach the covered up emotionally, spiritually and physically and set them free in His SPIRIT ...Amen ?
After reading your many many post I must ask you to stop beginning the outside world in here. I am a female Christian nudist. I also have a chrisstian male friend. We practice good nudity. No lip kissing or intercouse until marriage. I have open discuss nudity with him. I told that I could not marry a man who was not a nudist. I will alway be a nudist and still respect others values too. This means that when someone else is around I will be textile if they are not a nudist. As for your erectile or erection question to my male friend? LOL.. Non of your business!
Actually I was unaware that talking about erections on a nude beach was un-natural or not allowed. If that be the case and it is a taboo to mention erections whether male or female. (Because females get erections too via their clitoruses and nipples, harder to see but the same exact physiological process as males) ... then I shan't, but up til now no one else mentioned that such a topic of sexual attraction and nudity could not be written about and talked about. I thought it would have immense implications for nudists for they also are sexual beings.
What's taboo, I think the board would back me up on it, is teaching that erections are natural and we're to accept them when we see them. I don't know what points you're really trying to make. (Hence, why I said, "Huh?") If that's one of them, then I'd have to disagree with you zealously. Erections at a beach because of naked women means a man is lusting. He needs to do some heavy-soul searching in the Spirit. I would be pissed if a man stared at me and had an erection. Why? He's not having an erection because he sees a beautiful body. Mountains are beautiful but I'd say it's abnormal for anyone to have an erection when seeing them. The erection doesn't happen when men look at mountains because they don't commit adultry with mountains. They don't have sex with trees, or sunsets, or flowers. (Unless they're quite deviant in sexual preferences.)
To me, saying having an erection at a nude beach with naked women is okay and natural is the same as saying it's okay to have sex with anyone other than your spouse. Jesus said lust is committing adultry in your heart.
I'm not going to comment about us being sexual beings. We're probably going to have a world of difference there, too. I'm just going to say I refuse to be a sexual being. I've chosen to be a spiritual one in Christ instead.
Agreed nude beaches have a taboo against erections, there is social pressure. And the point of the thread was whether this social pressure of not having an erection whether male or female (as females have erections or excitment as well) eventually makes it impossible to have a normal one. If this subject can't be discussed, then maybe that isn't natural, but a cover-up.
I always thought honesty in the physical would be paralleled by honesty in the spirit and heart and soul and any topic could be discussed maturely as Christians. Amen ?
Yes, a male of normal sexuality can refrain from erections in social nudist situations and still easily have a "positive" response with his wife. No problem.
The reason is because a proper naturist/nudist situation ISN'T SEXUAL. There's no conflict because there's no need for an erection there. He isn't thinking about sex, or shouldn't be. But alone with his wife, if the mood strikes them...
Sure Kevin, via strong doctrination and because of immense social pressure, a male and female can learn to stop their natural inclinations towards getting sexually turned on, and just absorb the sexual satisfaction of being seen. The same hormones are relaesed in the brain and through out the body, but erections won;t happen. Instead of allowing blood to flow into the gentital areas, there is a constriction, the same way that fear causes constriction.
Relaxation of the blood arteries however via faith or relaxation or even via chemicals like Viagra open the blood arteries and different degrees of erection can happen in women and men. Ha, but we really have no idea really how many women on a nude beach are walking around with erections. Again do realize that men and women are identical in their seuxal build-ups and make-up and vary very little physiologically. A woman's clitorus being exactly the same embryiologically as a man's penus.
So YES, visual stimulus on the beach can be just taken in my males and females and prevent erections especially in men, although you surely have to admit if honest that in sex, almost all including surely yourself like I and millions of others, imagine or fantasize other women when making love to our wifes. if not, then we would be worshipping them, and that would be a sin or making an idol before the Lord. But anyway, this subject is amazing, as I have never really heard of people before that dissociated getting nude, meaning displaying their sexual organs and then saying it wasn;t sexual.
And so these questions I do ask you.
Hoping to hear from you, on your personal opinions and what you know from your and others experiences.
You still aren't getting it. I responded above, but there are more issues here that need to be dealt with.
"Strong doctrination" or "immense social pressure" don't have ANYTHING to do with a naturist male, especially a Christian, not getting an erection in any social nude situation.
Listen carefully: IT ISN'T ABOUT SEX.
And to be honest, no I don't "fantasize". A proper sexual relationship is about more than the body. A woman's beauty is inside, not just her appearance. If you love your wife, simply enjoying the fantastic relationship, emotional and physical, that the Lord charges us with, should be enough. Sexuality between a husband and a wife is an absolutely amazing, incredible thing. I can truely understand what is meant by the "two becoming one flesh." Physically, and spiritually. Thinking about any other woman is lustfull and is adultry, plain and simple.
That's it, and I hope and pray that you can begin to understand. I'll be praying for you.
I did respond, correct, oppose : We (here on the Old Continent) just tell, where
we have our favorite summer vacation place in Croatia or Corsica; I just say that for the annual congress in Bad Ischl I take the "Thermenhotel" because of the lovely sauna - -
The trouble is not Social Nudity, but the environments attitude or prejudice or
superstition; ok, in some way we just should somehow respect them.
) point very well.