I have heard it said that many nudists men and women eventually get sexually inactive, because the human body no longer has any mysteries to it, nor does its revelation
any longer stimulate them.
I realize sex has to do with passion and love, not just sight. But still I find in rather disconcerting to keep down an erection while at a nude beach, as naturially it would want to go up. Social pressures and religious inhibitions might drive it down but our God given desires would tend to erect it.
My gut reaction was, "Huh?" I'm not sure what point your trying to make here. My husband is very sexually active and he's been a naturalist for years. It does have to do with passion and love. The only mystic I see taken out of nudity is the shame aspect.
As far as erections go, I think maybe you're not quite clear about the difference between seduction and nakedness. If you're having to keep yourself down then you might want to continue praying and seeking God's will about whether or not you should be a nudist. I'm honestly not trying to be harsh with you. Just honest. If you're placing yourself in a position where you're lusting after women because they're naked, you're committing adultry in your heart. You shouldn't be around naked women until you can see them in a pure light as God sees us all in the pure light of Christ.
Carla, I am not talking about some time nudists, or specific individuals but long time nudists that are no longer inspired by the beautiful human body that the Lord created us to desire.
I won't get into a discussion about lust with you, but the Lord's natural desire that he put in us for our opposites starts with the visual, and the visual is literally beautiful according to the template of creation called 'PHI' This was created by the Lord, as there is no doubt in my mind as a scienctist that the Lord is the Creator and our IMAGE is not by chance.
Anyway as a Christian, I find absolutely no sin with admiring the created image of the Lord. People literally get sexual satisfaction from displaying from what I have seen whether they call themselves 'exhibitionists' or NOT.
Their freedom and satisfaction from just being you, and sadly this means that more of the beautiful bodies are displayed as the ones who don;t deem themselves as beautiful are discouraged mentally from taking their clothes off. Such a pity...when we should just be thankful for what the Lord has given us.
Anyway Carla... let me do a simple internet search concerning nudist erectile dysfunction and see what happens. As I heard this can happen to long time nudists and always wanted to ask the question. The older nudists, who make it a lifestyle, can fall into that E>D> category,
I'll answer your other queries shortly.... but maybe we should keep this thread for ED and naturialism rather than your comments about lust and marriage.
I am married and am a Christian missionary, am a nudist in the past especially now that I and we are in Canada.
Our women love us, despite our outer image, Thank the Lord and despite our faults, aren't we fortunate Kevin.
For naturialism, in my opinion, is and can be a great humbler. There's always someone better looking, better hung, better tan, better hairstyle, more muscles, smoother, or more humouress, more spiritual, wealthier, more intelligent etc. etc.... and on the beach in the raw, it becomes quite obvious.
And the exact same thing goes for our women, dont you reckon, Kevin. Naturialism should make them humble, because there will always be a more beautiful woman coming along down the beach. Sure they can be proud of what the Lord has given them, but it should always be remembered that their gift of beauty and health is ONLY by GRACE and can be taken away at any time, if any of us get lifted up.
I was just at Wreck Beach Vancouver last weekend, and I reckon, any woman or man that goes there trying to be the best, soon finds out they aren't. So all should just relax, and be non competitive and just be themselves.
I am a proponent of Equality, Kevin, so in any posts I make I will always take the opinion from science and scriptures that men and women are basically the SAME and not different. The world says they differ, the church favours men, but I say the Lord sees the genders as EQUAL< and in almost all ways their hearts are exactly the same.
I am not talking about some time nudists, or specific individuals but long time nudists that are no longer inspired by the beautiful human body that the Lord created us to desire.
David:
Your first post wasn't clear. But as I read the statement above I had to wonder if this does not apply to textile seniors sleeping in different beds. Haha. If you want the answer to this question I would visit or contact Cypress cove in Kissimmee, Florida. They have a library at the resort with lots of information.
I hope you can see where I and Carla saw shame in your first post. We have been reading a few post in here that has been somewhat negative and unloving.
Maybe Spunky Lady, you should wait a while before prematurely labelling me shameful, negative and unloving.
My query remains as from a scientific point of view, the more we see, the less exciting the vision is. That's common sense and rather a no brainer.
For again, even seeing female breasts is considered sexual in nature in Western societes. And yet they are really only sexual because they are kept covered so much. They lose their sexual appeal if they are seen all the time.
As other cultures have found out, uncovered breasts are not sexually stimulating, because men have seen them from childhood and beyond.
IE. The more you see the Mona Lisa, the less stimulating she is to even the most ardent art lover.
As far as I know Spunky Lady, love is sexual as the Lord created not just our sexy bodies, but the perfect fit that joins them together via love-making. Matter of fact, his first commandment was 'Make Love ' was it not ?
And love is also scientific because the Good sexy Lord, made the laws of nature and the universe and our body chemistry that makes us able to love and make love.
So I think you might have to segregate and expand on and understand a bit more when you say ..."Well Love isn't sexual, scienitic or shameful. But Lust can be all 3."
Why because love is sexual, and it is the Lord's science, and yet it is not something to be ashamed of, if our hearts are right. Amen ! And you should really understand the difference between selfish possessive lust which is absolutely deplorable and hurtful and destructive and lust which is merely sexual physical attraction. The former is of the devil whereas the latter is of the Lord because the Lord made us attractive to the opposite sex... Otherwise we would never mate and have children.
I have great difficulty with the expression "making love" meaning sexual intercorse! Often sexual intercorse has no love there at att purely lust and lustful pleasure! Modern speak has so corrupted the word "LOVE" so that we have this confusion now as to love being sexual or not. Love can lead to sexual activity but love in itself is not sexual!
Tevita
Normally and naturially Tevita, if two people love each other, they normally and naturially want to unite totally in sexual union and union every other way.
What the heathen do, and what the world does with the gift of God and their bodies is up to them, and we can;t change it except to encourage them to KNOW the Lord and His Love and try to trly love each other with respect and honesty and care. So it comes down to choice.
If you are offended by mere wording, just change the wording but the act itself remains the same. It's beautiful and created by the Lord. This being obvious as the devil had no part in the creative process and only tries to take credit for sex.
So we in fact can make love, even if the worldly only have sexual intercourse. But I have never heard of a man and woman that really loved each other that didn't want to make love to each other. This kind of love for another is from the Lord, sexual love is not separate from love but a part of it, from everything I have experienced.
I believe that if you define love as the love of a husband for wife and vis-a-versa, yes often it is as one follows the other. However I define love as a very strong emotional positive feeling for another person, being, thing I do not see that sex follows love.
Unfortunately, David, Science can not define, measure nor quantify Love or lust so trying to do scientific research on Love is practically impossible. This thread is not logical as you say you want to scientifically look at love.
Love is God, that is scientific and spiritual and true. Real love is sacrifical and is not the selfish love most commonly displayed in worldly marriages, but the type of love that just cares about making the other happy and satisfied and complete. It isn;t lustful and possessive like worldly marriages and most church marriages but is real LOVE from the Lord.
I wrote this a while back, maybe it better explains it to others..
Real Love
Real love isn’t "I love you if you love me", that’s worldly love.
Real love is "I love you no matter if you love me or not". Real
love just loves, and hopes the best for the other, and does whatever
they can for the happiness of someone else rather than themselves.
(Compare Ungodly Romantic Love)
Real love is putting someone or others before yourself and before your own needs. It isn’t contingent or conditional on whether others love you or not. You love and respect them so much you don’t care if that love is returned, you just want their needs to be meet and for them to be happy, and you will do whatever it takes within your power to do so.
1 John 3: 16-18 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's goods, and seeth his brother (or sister) have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from (them), how dwelleth the love of God in him? .... Let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
So we can't be concerned about how our actions look to others, we have to just do what necessary to help them. We can;t consider ourself first, but them and their needs, and we can't wait to see if they respond or return our love. We just do it because, of their need, whether we get a 'Thank You', a reward or any recognition whatsoever. . for as the Lord said ...
Mathew 6:2-4 Therefore when thou doest thine alms (or loving acts), do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
Jesus loved us before we were able to return his love. He kept loving even when All turned their backs on Him. "Herein is love, not that we loved Him but that he first loved us, and gave Himself for us' (1 John 4: 10) .... Jesus did it first, He acted first, and extended his love first before waiting to see if we would respond. But even if we still don’t He still loves us and is patient with us, knowing that we will never find a love greater than His and more fulfilling than His Love.
For No 'Greater love hath this that a man lay down his life for his friends'. (John 15: 13). This is the ultimate love, the greatest love, REAL Sacrificial Love and there is no greater love than this, that a man give up his life for those he loves. And Jesus did this for us, in payment for our sins. He didn’t have to die for us, He didn’t have to suffer and be beaten and crucified for us, when He could have just stayed in the Heavenlies. He didn’t have to come and lay down His Life for us. But he did, because He loved us.
He had to give his life to cover our sins and reunite us with Him and all those that have learned what love truly is. He loved us even while we were sinners, because even after we accept Him we are still sinners and He still loves us. Now that’s love !!! ..... which means we can have the Grace to love others, because we are all in the same condition. We can pass on His love because we are undeserving of it. … and we now only want to make others happy as well.
But its not us, its His love that makes the difference. Matter of fact, He is love, everything He does is love whether we know it not. “God is Love’… ‘For God so loved the world that He gave His ONLY Begotten SON that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have eternal Life.’ (John 3: 16)
Do you want His LOVE ? Receive Him into your heart today. He loves you !!! If you want, you can even do it now, by saying in your heart or out loud ....
JESUS, Thank you for coming and dying for me. Please forgive me for all my sins, and I ask you to give me the Eternal Life, you promised for all those that believe in you. Fill me with your Love and Spirit. In Jesus Name, I pray, Amen !!!
For if you pray this or anything similar in heart and mean it, Jesus will do it, Why, because Jesus loves you !!!
I admit I just skimmed over your post, but I didn't see anywhere where you said anything about sex in there.
Love isn't about sex.
Between a husband and wife, that can certainly be one way of expressing how they feel, but there are othert types of love.
What about the love of a mother for her child? That is some of the strongest love that I have ever personally witnessed, and there is no sexuality there at all.
I believe you are improperly stuck on this issue of sexuality, and are quite honestly confused about love, lust, and sexuality.
Do read it over again, Kevin. Real love can be expressed sexually as mentioned and as you mentioned. Sex isn't love but can be part of real love when two hearts are right.
Sex, worldly sex is not automatically love, it can be horribly selfish and done for gain, advantage, money, pure lustful pleasure and many other unChristian ends. Our love and our sexual love should not be like the heathen and their selfish conditional love, but done with all our hearts as unto the Lord.
Sex is sex. Love is in the sex act when two people are committed to each other and have decided to love each other come what may. Modern speak is confusing things here. I've never ever read in the Bible that love is sexual. It's kind, it's polite, it's patient, etc. 1 Corinthians 13. "There's no greater love than a man lay down his life for a friend." Jesus talking to His disciples in the Gospels. It's never described as sexual. What is described is how husband and wives are to love each other in the sex act. Song of Solomon is very beautifully explicit about holy love-making in God's eyes. It's so holy and pure many consider the book to be also talking about the relationship between Christ and the Church. I'm one of them. But, it's definitely also talking about the godly love of committment between a man and a woman, too. Sex is adultry, fornication, lust, and just plain idolitry when it's not done as a result of that committment.
I can;t change your mind about sex and the Bible, Carla, so will only suggest you read the tremendously sexual first BOOK of the Bible.
Genesis is fantastic, the loves, the sex, and sex was not the sin of Adam and Eve, it was actually knowledge of evil and had nothing to do with them obeying the first comandment and 'making love'.... or being fruitful by making love... and being sexual.
I love all but I don't have sex with all. How did Christ show His love, sexually or sacrificially? How does God love us? How are parents suppose to love their children? How do we love our enemies? Love isn't sexual, but sex can be an expression of love.
If allowed to differ with you, Carla .... I believe from experience and from biology and from life's experiences that sexual love is a part of love. It isn't separate and worldly and sinful but godly and beautiful and NATURAL when done with a good heart for unselfish reasons.
Where did you get the idea that sex was wrong or that love and sex were two totally different concepts. Love and sex go together and make a perfect union where two equals become ONE. Nothing is more humbling and nothing is a greater teacher in life than love, sex and marriage.
Sex is sex. Sex outside of God's ordination for it is sin. Sin is wrong. Gratifying the flesh is what the carnal mind does. Love is love. Love isn't sexual. Otherwise, we'd all be having sex with everyone and everything we loved. Sex as an expression of love between husband and wife--between two committed lovers who've made a covenant to love and cherish each other for as long as they both live--is never wrong. It's beautiful because then it's spiritual and not carnal. Spiritual is right, carnal is wrong.
You're teaching that love is sexual and, at the same time,that sexual love is apart of love. That's not how love is ever described in the Bible. It's not described that way in Genesis. Sex was always a result of a man and woman either desiring each other lustfully or lovingly. The desire is sexual, of course. The desire can be lust (carnal) or a loving attraction; recognizing the individual for who he/she is and wanting intimacy with him/her. Sometimes it's instant, sometimes it takes years. It's a spiritual attraction. Even if you never had sex with that individual, you'd still love them and care about their welfare.
Sex itself is either an expression of lust or an expression of love. I've experienced both types of sex and I prefer sex as an expression of love (of which Matt is king.)
And love is: 1 Corinthians 13.
Find the word "sexual" in that chapter and you'll have changed my mind completely.
I'm sitting here chuckling to myself. Carla, I'm not laughing at you but hopefully laughing with you. Sometimes we get so earnest in discussions of religion that we kind of miss the point.
The Bible has multiple words that are translated by the single English word "love." In Greek (NT) there are 3 separate words that get translated "love." I'm not sure about Hebrew (OT), except that there's a lot of sexual activity mentioned in the Old Testament. Those old characters were lusty people.
The Greek word that appears in I Cor 13 has nothing to do with sexual expression, and not a great deal to do with emotion. It has to do more with how we treat and care for each other. But there are other words.
So . . . my guess is that you haven't read Song of Solomon lately. I recommend that you do so. The Bible does actually celebrate sexual love within marriage, even as it also celebrates that men and women can care for each other apart of sexual expression.
I've read song of Solomon and my convictions stand firm. Love isn't sexual. It's sacrificial. It commmits. It's everything 1 Corinthians 13 says it is. I guess I'm not a Naturist after all because if it's about love being sexual then it's not for me.
Sex is an expression because of love or lust. Song of Solomon is an example of love. Not sexual love. If Naturism teaches love is sexual then I'm out...
Actually Bro, the Song of Solomon is all about the longings and desires of sexual real love. There is nothing sinful about our bodies nor sex. It uses different words for the sexual organs, but any true Jew knows what Solomon is talking about, and what the bride is talking about.
Its amazing how people try to de-sexualize the very sexy Bible.
Sorry David but I rebuke your statement as "you should." God made Adam, Adam was alone so God made Animals. Animals wasn't enough for Adam so God made women(Eve). If I am correct and I know Iam. God made women for man to form a relationship with. I don't I need to know the details of what occurred with Adam and Eve to gain Cain and Abel. I don't even need to know the details of anybody else personal relationship on here. Those are private matter's between a man and a women. Christ made Love a commandment. He said to " Love your Neighbors....." I believe I know the difference between Love and Sex with the intercession of God's Grace and Mercy.
As many times as my hubby has seen me nude (and it's more than just often) he still finds my breasts stimulating and exciting. He still finds sex to be a beautiful mystic experience and he doesn't struggle with erectile dysfunction. This argument is getting lame now so this is my last word on it...
Actually Carla, in a discussion of logic, one individual or some individuals in no way negates a whole principle if the general principle holds true for the majority in a 'SET.
I know this may sound a little mathematical, but it is the basis for scientific progress in a discussion.
Rather than people getting defensive about a subjective thought or concept, it helps so much if they take a step backwards and just talk as if a dissociated observer objectively. Subjective discussions tend to get accussortory and personal, whereas good objective discussions talk about principles and observations and it makes general overall concepts formable.
Hope you understand this, as it really helps things flow so that people don't get offended. Let's be objective and not subjective... Thanks.
Hence one doesn't negate the whole, thank the Lord for Kevin and his love and sexual love toward you.
My "Last Word" comment was a bit critical towards David. I apologize. I know you're trying to work something out for yourself here. I don't know why you started this thread, but you didn't mean for it to turn into an argument. Again, I apologize. If men are suffering from dysfunction because they no longer find the human body beautiful or if they find the mystic has been lost then they've missed the point about Naturism all together. They've also missed the point about love and overlooked all the exhortations in the Bible which tells a husband to to love his wife as his own body. In the end it's the condition of the heart that will be evident. I'm not saying that all men suffering from impotence aren't inlove with their wives anymore. There could be a whole slew of problems going on. But, a man who isn't stimulated by his wife's body because he's seen too many naked women has indeed let his heart become hardened and callous. (And, knowing everyone's history here, I doubt that rarely ever happens. Naturism only encourages the beauty and mystic of womanhood.)
David said this thread wasn't about lust or marriage. I don't see how it's not. Here's my summary:
* If we're talking about mere attraction being stimulated between the sexes, clothes or no clothes, that never gets tiring or old. When I was at Wreck Beach, I saw a lot of flirting going on. I've seen the same kind of flirting in malls, schools, and churches. I don't see how an over abundance of nudity can stop anyone from feeling attracted to another person. If we're talking about sexual stimulation between unmarried people then we're talking about sin. That is lust...
* A man struggling to control his erections when seeing naked women is a man who's struggling against lust. He needs to pray and seek God's will about Nudity instead of indulging his sinful nature.
* A man who isn't stimulated by his wife's body because he's seen too many naked women has allowed himself to become callous towards his wife. Love is an action verb and so is passion...
Proverbs 5:19 AMP Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant doe [tender, gentle, attractive]--let her bosom satisfy you at all times, and always be transported with delight in her love.
My convictions are based on the Bible and all the testimonies I've received from husbands concerning their wives, other women, and God's image. It's evident in this thread alone.
My convictionsd are also Bible based and from life experiences, Carla, so isn't it good we can agree to disagree, and yet remain brethren in the Lord.
Ha, so as a tid bit from science and life, ALL did you know that those with spinal injuries, can have orgasms without touching their lower bodies that have absolutely no feelings anyway. This all done in their mind, as the brain is the greatest sex organ and is truly all that is needed for sex...and it can be accomplished just from seeing and imaging..... and the benefits they get physically, emotionally and spiritually is just the same as for us.
And so similiarly from science, can I also suggest that some men and women can have sexual satisfaction just from being viewed or even orgasms from doing the same. They never need to touch themselves or anyone or be touched by anyone. Orgasms without touch, all via long distance viewing and being viewed. All done in the mind.
Amazing huh ?
So there is a lot more sex going on in the spirit than we might have thought before... Amen ?
I don't know what you wanted to accomplish here. You want validation for lusting after women? You're not going to get it from me. All you've done is described how powerful imaging is when it comes to lust. Knowing someone and being committed to that person makes sex an expression of love. I'm not going to go to the beach to view nude men and climax over their naked bodies. If that ever happened, I'd never go anywhere Nudist again. And, fantasy is just fantasy regardless of the physical response it can bring about. That doesn't describe love. Again, 1 Corinthians 13 describes love.
With all sincerety and honesty, if I had met you first before I met the others here then my fear of Nudity would've been completely justified.
Thanks for the prayers and I shall pray for you as well, Carla. I appreciate prayers from others to the Lord to show me more, so much appreciated.
I am very interested in how the Lord created our divine bodies, and divine spiritual sex, and a natural approach between us via complete nudity of not just bodies but hearts and emotions. I like the whole package of being natural and honest.
... with Carla: my first response was "Huh?", also. What was the point, exactly?
As far as the erection thing, she's right on. I've been an artist for years, and therefore exposed to nude bodies, and now a nudist and obviously exposed to nudity. The body holds no less fascination for me now than it ever did. However, I've never, not once, had even an inclination to get an erection in a naturist situation. Not once. I also am at least "normal" in my libido and sex-drive .
I just don't see how exposure to nudity can diminish desire in a loving relationship. It should actually INCREASE, because of the openness being nude and vulnerable together brings.
I agree, as an individual Kevin, as we may be more turned on my our wives rather than less turned on after seeing others. But still I think the slow revelation of the beauty of God, is more thrilling ... just as with an artist you try and get new poses and new feeling in the same figure or in a different model.
As the sex therapist have found out, the greatest sexual experience talked about is usually the 'first time experience' ...for afterwards the novelty can fade with continual; exposure or useage .... but its only with true love that it gets deeper and deeper.
And so I still contend that many older nudists that go to the extreme, and do it all the time can actually lose the ability to get turned on to their wives.
But with the young and healthy...Ha like us, naturialism can INCREASE our sexual attraction.... for as you said ... I just don't see how exposure to nudity can diminish desire in a loving relationship. (Amen !!!!) It should actually INCREASE, because of the openness being nude and vulnerable together brings. (Amen and Awoman !!!)
Just some thoughts.(I like'em, but still think over indulgence where nudity is the rule all the time can eventually make many get E.D> Lord help it not to happen to us...)
I still firmly believe that if a man looses desire for his wife, it has nothing to do with them being naturists. There's another problem there somewhere. Don't lay those problems on naturism's door.
Agreed Kevin, Real love, even real sexual love is an appreciation and love of more than a mere body, its the love and union of two souls ... knowing that the other is a creation of the Lord, that makes you so thankful for them and for the LORD.
Naturialism can be a great training ground for people to develop so much more than just the flesh. Their beauty goes deeper to the soul so that they can just be themselves and appreciate much much more than just the external.
I have heard it said that many nudists men and women eventually get sexually inactive . . . .
Age does that to both men and women. A person who has been a long-time nudist is also a person who is a long-time older than they once were. Rigorous studies have shown that every part of the population experiences diminished desire as they age. Many older men develop erectile dysfunction. Lots of older women, particularly those who are not taking hormones, begin to see sex as a bother rather than a pleasure.
Many things are said, but not everything that is said is supported by scientific research. If you can actually find some solid research in support of your theory, that's one thing. Otherwise you're just repeating gossip.
Obviously a single personal example doesn't affect what may be true of the overall population, but my wife and are certainly a couple who haven't experienced what you're talking about. We do experience changes that are age related. Desire is still a welcome part of our relationship, but it doesn't flame like it once did. Sexual expression is no less satisfying, but there are aspects that change with age. Thankfully we both still love to seduce the other.
If you are having to "keep down an erection while at a nude beach," then my guess is that you haven't been to many nude beaches. The first few times can be sexually stimulating, particularly for young men. Repeated exposure moves you beyond that, and then you are able to appreciate the beauty that is in every person and every body without worrying about embarassing yourself.
Personally my problem with lust and arousal comes at a textile beach, where I am confronted by so many people wearing swimming suits designed to highlight and pronounce the wearer's sexuality. Imagination is powerful.
Thanks, and I do agree with you LUV.... on the age perspective personnally, as I personnally don't think I shall ever tire of the beauty that the Lord created and the diversity, and reckon it shall always be stimulating even in heaven. But with others I have heard that they lose interest and it becomes rather less than evigorating or stimulating.
Hmmm but let's get back to whether it is normal to get an erection when seeing a beautiful body. Does it have to be clothed before we can use our imagination to see it un-clothed ? Does an unclothed body lose its sexuality ?
I'm thinking not, unless we see it too many times. For even the magazines realize that the same model every month will eventually not be desired, and so keep having new ones. I realize this gets into the idea of multiple loves, so shall end the discussion at that.
But would agree with all of you that nudism INCREASES Sexual ATTRACTION to both our mates as well as ......
Anyway LUV, great response and I tend to agree with you in most cases, and don;t think there are too many specific scientific studies about E.D. among nudists, so all of us can hold our views and opinions without worry of being contradicted by studies.
O.K. I shall change my mind because of all the opinions put forth here and say like Kevin and LUV that nudism will increase sexuality rather than diminish it.
That eleviates a few of my fears, as I was thinking over indulgence in viewing such beautiful creations of God might at some point lose its magnifience with me.
Much appreciated all for your viewpoints and further inspiration into naturialism.
relationships can not be based on mere sexuality or a pretty face or anything merely skin deep. A true relationship is a union of hearts and souls and minds, and really only possible if people put the Lord first BEFORE their own marriage.
Personal nudity together is great, group nudity helps us know we are normal and natural and that our relationship is not based on a special nude relationship but something a whole lot deeper and more spiritual than merely taking off our clothes.
but in many ways un-naturistic (not in the dictionary) and nonchristian like. Sexuallity is part of the human existance so it is neither good nor bad in a moral context. What arises sexual desire within us is almost entirely dependend on our culture.
When I walk around a nude beach the first time I still have still react like I have learn from society = female breasts are something sexual (that´s why they have to be covered all the time) and everything sexual is very exciting so I might have some problems.
But very very soon I learn that there are other possible interpretations.
While in a natural (unclothed) environment I am able to admire Gods creatures more and better without any sexual interest, because I actually can have a look at them (no not staring ) and do not have to look at some layers of clothing and use my imagination to draw a picture of what might or might not be underneath.
The problem in our societies is that we are only allowed to physicaly interact between genders in a sexual context and that nudity is one of the major parameters for that scenario.
We once had a little discussion about nude hugging (two or three years ago)...can not remember if we were able to establish some consensus
But have you ever seen a married man touching a woman`s face he was not married to or vice versa? That would be impossible.
I personaly beleave that´s one of the reasons modern idividuals are feeling so lonely, have psychic problems even in early childhood, when the parents only communicate with their children verbally and avoid any physical contact.
The skin is the biggest sensing organ we have but we cover most of it up. In consequence we loose a lot of information and have to act on a much smaller knowledge base.
A bit confusing, well do not try to understand it, it would take me several hours to make it sound intelligent.
Jack
Decreasing sexual interest is, as mentioned, unfortunately a function of livestil and more important aging.
Jack, you're absolutely right about the healing power of touch. Humans need to touch and be touched by others to maintain emotional health. I believe that people who are never touched are at risk for any number of consequences, including psychosomatic diseases [real illnesses that originate in the activity of the mind; not imagined illnesses]. I have concern whenever I realize that someone's life situation likely precludes them from being touched.
Sometimes I have recommended massages as a way of meeting the need for touch. Between a married couple massages can be a wonderful way of expressing love, and the experience can lead to a marvelous eroticism if both want that. But massage doesn't need to become sexual in any way, and can remain quite modest and nonsexual.
About once every year or so my wife and I get a professional massage—which is a way to let you know that we have only a encountered a few who do this as a career. However those few have impressed me with their commitment to serve others.
One man gave me a massage that was particularly healing emotionally. During it I had a strong impression of spiritual caring coming to me. That caused me to talk with him afterwards and hear his story. He had a career in the Army's Special Forces, and wanted to do something that had to do with healing rather than killing. He found massage as a way of expressing his caring for people. He was not a Christian, but rather was deeply into New Age spirituality. He was so genuine in wanting to serve others that I asked, "This is a ministry for you, isn't it?" "That's exactly what it is. There are other things I could do that would make more money, but this is what I love to do."
Yes the Skin is the largest sexual organ we have.... and hugging, a sexual type of nonsexual union does have tremendous benefits emotionally, pyschologically and spiritually. Feeling loved, wanted and appreciated through a hug, is a great blessing in physical and spiritual ways.
But the problem is, is that many Christians believe in hugging with clothes on, but then shy away from full body hugging when nude, because they think they are being sexual. And they are taught to reframe from anything sexual by church doctrine.
Darn, the church stigma is so persuavive even among so many nudists. Amazing.
Wouldn't it be great, if more believed in real hugging without any touching whatsover of our sexual organs. Whoops, breasts are sexual organs, but oh well, just chest to chest anyway. (Breasts have neural connections directly to our gential area, in both males and females, and hence they have to be considered part of our sexuality. And then again our skin is part of our sexuality as well, so hugging even hand to hand, is a display of sexuality ... so why not go further and have nude hugging. We do it with clothes on, so why not with clothes off ?
Yes, all the senses are made by the Lord, and all are used in obeying His First Commandment to be fruitfull and multiply
I am sensing something here as well, Kevin, you seem to be denying that displaying ******* organs via nudism is a ******** envigorrating healthy experience ....as if *** is wrong and evil and unspiritual and unholy.
So back to the topic.... can Christian nudists hug each other or not, or do you reframe because you think it is a sexual expression of love and therefore taboo and sinful.
Like Jack, I would encourage hugging whether clothed or nude.
Why are you against Christians hugging .... Kevin ?
I'm not against hugging- clothed or nude. I just don't believe that it has to be sexual.
This may be extreme, but I've HAD IT!!! for now. You are totally wrapped up in everything being all about sex, when it isn't.
Think what you will about me, but I've said my peace about every subject you've brought up, some very close to being improper enough for me to seriously consider deleting them from the board.
I will not be replying to you for a while, because I honestly don't know how much longer I can control my temper.
Great to hear you believe in hugging. real hugging from the heart, and Yes it doesn't have to be sexual.
And I can't understand why you would be losing your temper on the subject of hugging. A long time naturialist should have faced this query before this.
Are hugs good .. YES
Do they have to be sexual .... NO
Sensual, Yes, if you define sensual as touching skin to skin as that is a sensory organ. Sensory towards sex, NO, but sensory Yes, even if hugging chest to chest..
Why would you get upset and lose your temper, Kevin, has no one ever asked these important questions before this ?
usually I avoid this kind of statement, but David, it seems that you've got a problem.
Either you talk about everything that spins around in your mind without thinking about to whom you are talk to (I would feel sorry for wife) or you do have a problem understanding yourself. Whenever you start a sentence about nudity you end it with talking about sexuality. You are doing just the same you actually try to advocate against. There is no direct contection between nudity and sexuality! It is all made up by modern society.
Your weak attempt to set this boundage in a christian context messed up the whole board here!
When I talk about skin and hugging and you start writing a sermon about the skin as sexual organ your are the one with a problem not Kevin or anybody else.
) and do not have to look at some layers of clothing and use my imagination to draw a picture of what might or might not be underneath.