Oy, Boyd,
I think I got myself into some arguments that might actually have gone off topic on this website. The lines are kind of fuzzy for me.
The website is for talking about Nudity and what the Bible has to say about it. That's clear. But, if someone makes a comment about sexuality and it's correlation with Nudity and then the discussion takes a turn to talk about Sexuality, sex and Nudity and then that takes another turn to being a discussion about the difference between lust and love as described in the Bible, etc. I don't know exactly when to draw the line. It relates topically in my head.
I am very opinionated and I have some strong convictions. What it boils down to is you all have taught me that Nudity is godly and pure because we're covered in Christ and He takes our shame away. But the posts that I was responding to is saying something quite different. First and foremost, it's a shame to be a nudist so you've got to keep it secret. If it's true then there is shame Christ can't take away. Perhaps its my own perception but it doesn't sound like the Christian Naturism I've grown to accept. I'm also reading that the naked body is suppose to arouse us because love is sexual. At the same time, if we're not aroused then we've grown insensitive to the naked body's mystic and beauty because we've seen naked bodies over and over again. I can't buy any of it and I had to comment. I hope I didn't make things too chaotic. God isn't the God of chaos but of order. I really want to keep the guidelines and not go off topic. It's just that it's all organized in my head as related topics.
A comment was made that we are sexual beings. I wasn't going to respond because it would probably just have started another long argument. Now, I'm going to state my case. Then I'm going to wait and see what Boyd says about it all. (I'll follow your lead.)
This is what Sexuality means:
: the quality or state of being sexual: a : the condition of having sex b : sexual activity c : expression of sexual receptivity or interest especially when excessive
This is what sexual means:
1 : of, relating to, or associated with sex or the sexes <sexual differentiation> <sexual conflict>
2 : having or involving sex <sexual reproduction>
- sex·u·al·ly /'sek-sh(&-)w&-lE, 'sek-sh(&-)lE/ adverb
I perceived Christian Naturism to be about spirituality. Not sexuality. I'm just going to let the Bible do the talking for me...
Romans 8:5-7 AMP For those who are according to the flesh and are controlled by its unholy desires set their minds on and pursue those things which gratify the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit and are controlled by the desires of the Spirit set their minds on and seek those things which gratify the [Holy] Spirit.
Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].
[That is] because the mind of the flesh [with its carnal thoughts and purposes] is hostile to God, for it does not submit itself to God's Law; indeed it cannot.
I am a female but I don't live to gratify my female flesh. My mind is on gratifying the Holy Spirit. It doesn't stop me from being a woman physically but I'm not a sexual being. I use to be, but I repented of it. I'm a spiritual being now. When it comes to sex, it's spiritual when it's done as an act of loving the spouse you're committed to loving...
Ephesians 5:28-32 Even so husbands should love their wives as [being in a sense] their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself.
For no man ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and carefully protects and cherishes it, as Christ does the church,
Because we are members (parts) of His body.
For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.
This mystery is very great, but I speak concerning [the relation of] Christ and the church.
Carla, the wording of your comments leads me to wonder if you might have misunderstood your dictionary. Please excuse me if it turns out that I misread what you wrote.
"The condition of having sex" doesn't mean engagement in the sexual act, but that one has male or female characteristics. My dictionary has three definitions for the word, only one of which has to do with preoccupation with sex. The other two are more general. "1. The condition of being characterized and distinguished by sex....3. The quality of possessing a sexual character or potency."
God made us as sexual beings, and it is part of what He declared to be good. Once we have had air to breath and food to sustain us, the drive to reproduce is in many ways the primary force in our lives. Many people are so out of touch with their own feelings and needs that they have trouble recognizing this, but it is true.
Christians recognize the need to keep a bridle on the sex drive, and channel its expressions in a Biblically-appropriate way. Christian saints and leaders throughout the ages have recognized that there is the closest possible connection between sexuality and spirituality. A Christian in any setting should be recognizing that the two are essentially two sides of the same coin, and together they possess within each of us tremendous potential to do good or to do harm.
My window on the world is shaped by the fact that I am a male. Your window on the world is shaped by your femaleness. Neither of us can afford to live unaware of the many ways that all plays out—or could play out.
I found that my relationships with those who came to me for help became healthier and more productive once I took ownership of my maleness and became comfortable with it. Part of that process was to understand that I could never afford to think that I couldn't step over the ethical line, and therefore I had to manage my behavior every day of my life.
Christian naturism understands the potential for sexual attraction and exploitation when people are nude together, and guards against Biblically inappropriate behavior. If my wife and I are nude in nature and no one else is about, that situation might lead us to enjoy sexual expression of our love. But we would never knowingly go to a situation where it could be expected that there would be public sexual activity. This is all part of living a spiritually based life.
So I don't think that Christians, and certainly not Christian naturists, can divorce spirituality from sexuality. We are each one whole person, and what affects part of our lives affects the whole.
You are absolutely right in your explanation. Except we as women are taught differently in our homes and society. A women isn't to be sexual. I could not openly say I am until I was 34 yrs old. I still have a hard time with out with feeling guilt, shame and embrassment. Especially as a survivor of abuse. Becoming a nudity does open your heart, soul and mind. This is a hard subject to talk about then to be seen nude.
Spunkylady
God made us as sexual beings, and it is part of what He declared to be good. Once we have had air to breath and food to sustain us, the drive to reproduce is in many ways the primary force in our lives. Many people are so out of touch with their own feelings and needs that they have trouble recognizing this, but it is true.
Christians recognize the need to keep a bridle on the sex drive, and channel its expressions in a Biblically-appropriate way. Christian saints and leaders throughout the ages have recognized that there is the closest possible connection between sexuality and spirituality. A Christian in any setting should be recognizing that the two are essentially two sides of the same coin, and together they possess within each of us tremendous potential to do good or to do harm.
My window on the world is shaped by the fact that I am a male. Your window on the world is shaped by your femaleness. Neither of us can afford to live unaware of the many ways that all plays out—or could play out.
Maybe there is a misunderstanding going on. But, as a female, I'm still a spiritual being and not a sexual one. I'm female physically but in Christ there is neither male or female. I have a female body but my mind is on what the Spirit wants. I'm a spiritual being. I chosen it and I'm sticking with it.
Right now you aren't of a purely spiritual nature. The physical aspects of your nature, your physical nature, have to be accounted for.
You can't ignore them. To say that you are a spiritual creature may turn into a problem, if you try to ignore the physical, including sexual, parts of your nature.
As humans we are very sexual. God made us that way. We HAVE to recognize and accept this. That's the only way we can deal with it as God wants us to.
I will define sexuality for you since it is really a broad term that refers to ALL aspects of being sexual, not just sex.
Sexuality involves 1)Genetic inheritence, 2)Anatomy and physiology, 3)the reality of being a sexual creature in a biological sense, 4)Thoughts/Feelings about our body and what it means to be a male or a female, and 5)It involves ethics, values, and cultural mores that we've assimilated through others.
So you see how broad a thing it is. This is a field that sexologists study and sexologists study 'sexuality' through various research methodologies. They come from various fields such as nursing, psychology, and health. As nudists point out nudity can be healthy and it reflects a healthy sexuality.
I guess this forum takes a lot of twists and turns at times. Our cultural and religious heritage causes a lot of the concerns we have that you and others were addressing.
Historically, nudists and naturists have firmly maintained that nudity and sex are not inherently bound together. I believe this to be true. The anthropological and historical record is replete with numerous examples of cultures in which full or partial male and female nudity was/is the standard. On the face of it, this renders the notion that nudity and engaging in sex are automatic and unavoidable, ridiculous.
Another unproven assertion is that lust MUST accompany the sight of nudity. It is obviously true the humans do lust. Of course the desire for sex with another person is not always the object of lust. Power, money, status, etc., can equally engage a person's lustful appetite.
However, the idea that clothing prevents lust is so absurd as to not merit serious intellectual consideration. I recognize that the Burka is held by millions to do just that, but even where it is worn, adultry still occurs. Simply accepting the truth that it is in people's hearts that all lust originates should end the nonsense that clothing creates and is essential to chaste thinking.
It seems to me that given the near universal wearing of clothing, virtually all adultry and fornication begins when clothed people meet one another. Given this correlation, why aren't people drawing the conclusion that clothing causes lust? The logic for either conclusion is hopelessly flawed.
Next, the concern expressed by some that years of seeing naked women will render me impotent is greatly exaggerated, (my wife is also relieved). It's amazing. I'm either supposed to be highly aroused and panting with lust, or....(gasp), limp?? These people have too much time on their imagination.
More serious is the issue of maintaining one's social nudity as a secret. This has been a time honored tradition from the start of the nudist movement in this country. However, it's been decades since police raided nudist gatherings and the secrecy continues. Unfortunately, to some degree a stigma remains.
I think this is a decision each person has to make given the circumstances of their life. Chances are, for most people there wouldn't be major consequences for being a naturist. For some there may be. We have told several in our family and our close friends. There are others whose reaction would predictably be negative, and I don't want to deal with the fallout from this.
I am sick and tried of these arguements over sex. Carl you are new here and I have been here for 7 months. The only way to go of topic to me would be beleiver nudity is sex or sexual. I have also notied that so called David agrees with kevin and Luv. Dabid seems to disagree with I and Carla- two female. I will not waste my time and energy playing reply games to someone who wants to debate another person sexuality. As Luv posted, Why add to someone else's gossip. There is a Library at Cypress Cove to find that information. There is also the AANR to call on their 800 number.
I feel that The Boyd Allen Christian Nudist website is to share, fellowship, support and love those in need.
O.K. Kevin you can change your mind, like I changed my mind towards your previously stated view that nudity makes you more sexual.
So would you now state thate nudity has no effect on your sex life whatsoever, and nudity isn;t sexual at all, although it is simply the showing of sexual organs, or would you now say that sex makes you LESS sexual as I originally postulated from what I had heard.
If you differ with me, you logically would have to take some other form of opinion on nudity and since you are apparrently more experienced in naturialism, I reckon you must have a new opinion formed now.
I am truly trying to find out how naturialists dissociate exposing their sexual organs with any type of sexuality. As a Christian missionary and scientist, this amazing feat that I have never heard of before is intriquing.
Naturists do "expose" their "sexual organs" as you put it, but it isn't ABOUT exposing your genitals, or about exposing any other part of yourself for that matter.
It's about personal preferances; comfort, enjoying the feel of air on the entire body, whatever.
I personally just enjoy being nude. I find it more comfortable than being stiffled in clothes all the time. And as far as sexuality, being a nudist has had NO detrimental effect as far as I can tell. In all actuality, my wife and I being nude together has helped us to be closer, and I don't just mean from being aroused from being nude all the time. That don't happen.
I hope that I've been clear enough, because I ain't goin' over it a'gin.
All's right, if you's says you just are a likin sum air conditioned comfort on all da sides of yous bod, I can be acceptin dat. Let da wind blow and da water splash .. and what giggles giggle
A life long I find it fascinatiing (excuse me for quoting litterally Nietsche : "Art und Grad der Geschlechtlichkeit des Menschen durchziehz seine ganze Existenz bis in die hoechsten Gipfel seines Geistes". Sexuality does not - as decades ago one minister tried to tell us - begin at the wrist , it begins at the fingertips. ( Poster for 7Up in the Fifties : A young mans and a young womans arm - hand carrying a bot of bottles together). Look at skiers on a slope : Men
and women differ in their moving patterns, they have a different "grounding", they have a different bodily experience in their way downhill.
Sophokles, Antigone 781 ff: Eros - - slumbering on the cheek of the gentle maid -
Until now I assume that the "other" is the attractive (and we have to differ between accidentally look at - like to look at - look at with pleasure - look at with desire - look at with lust - -)
- or : just for burning curiosity, because we have been educated to gaze at
all but just not - - the taboo zones, lest something horrible could happen or at least just this were the ultimate sin.
Claiming to be a conscientious Nudist since 1960 I still rememeber my first accidental look on the crotch of a lady changing her swimwear on some beach in Gereece in 1965 and the most bashful situation when a classmates sisters swimsuit
slipped off a little showing her nipple in 1954. That just caused fear and guilt.
We better take care of the neighbors dignity and our own dignity - that is a Biblical value.
