From what I am reading from different nudist naturism forums, there are fellowships but no regular churches for nudists. A few ceremonies take place in the nude, but nothing permanent, is that right ?
And if this vacuum is true, why not have some strong spiritual concerned nudists leaders whether male or FEMALE, start a church for the needs of us involved. I mean, again from what I have read, no regular church is going to accept nudity as they deem it sexual and they are adamantly opposed to sex, and therefore incorrectly nudity. Nudity should make us more honest and natural and spiritual, so why not start our or your own church.
I of course would pass, but surely the need is there and if the old hardened, anti-nudity church won't yield to the Lord's freedom, why don't the brave and bold among us LEAD the way with a full time regular church, where services can be held outdoors or indoors when the weather gets too cold.
I would think this could be discussed without being deleted, as it is a sincere observation and a sincere Christian question and maybe solution.
Yes, this is a topic that can be discussed, if kept in the proper context of this forum.
As far as to what has been deleted, that was not a secret, and it was my decision to do so. The posts in question were clearly of a snide, antogonistic, and condescending attitude. I understand that this is strong language, but I feel that it is accurate. I stand by my decision, will not discuss it further, and see no reason for it to be brought up again. Boyd has tasked me with watching over his forum while he is away, and I will do so to the best of my ability.
David, most of ue on this forum are first, and foremost, Christians. After that we also happen to have chosen a nude lifestyle. As with any other normal folks we have differant views as to our preferances of denomination and style of worship. If we were nudist first, and christian second, then any old service would do, but we are not. I have a feeling that is where we and you are having an understanding problem. We seem to have a simple but great gap in our priorities, us and you.
David, most of ue on this forum are first, and foremost, Christians. (Amen !! as that is the way it should be) After that we also happen to have chosen a nude lifestyle. (Forgive if I differ slightly, as saying it is a lifestyle maybe a little exaggerrated, as I'm sure most of you don;t do it a majority of the times, but probably only when you can. Few if any I reckon, are in nude communities full time. If nudity is secondary, your lifestyle might be better stated as Christian, in my opinion. If it were a total lifestyle choice, I would think it would be THEN, a reasonable suggestion to start your own church, with nudity being part of your Christianity, which I think it is. Nudity and Christianity go hand in hand and it could be incorportated into a statement of beliefs in my opinion. ...Ha as nudity and honesty should go hand in hand as well, including humility.)
As with any other normal folks we have differant views as to our preferances of denomination and style of worship. (But one style could be nude worship, which many Christian nudists might deem important enough to form a type of non denominational church together if the numbers warrant it. If you catch my drift)
If we were nudist first, and christian second, then any old service would do, but we are not. I have a feeling that is where we and you are having an understanding problem. (Not so, I am not a nudist first, honesty is part of Christianity and my first love is Jesus and being a missionary for Him. And that's not a problem, that's a blessing)
We seem to have a simple but great gap in our priorities, us and you. (Where did you get that from. I have always said I was a Christian missionary first and foremost. I have a ministry and e-mail lists and friends and associates we have met in our thrity years of ministry. I have a large successful website and two discussion boards, and only came here to find out the mind set and faith set of Christian ndists. So maybe our gap is much much much smaller than the supposed gap you think you see.... I am into witnessing about Jesus and having people witness about His love to others, and demonstrating His love and words, I am not into self righteous posturing or so called holy lifestyles, just love and showing real actual love to others, and giving the LORD credit for life and love. Amen ? If people don;t want to witness about Jesus, they won;t like me ? But I'm sure you want to tell others about Jesus Right ?)
My relationship with God is what is my priority! Nudity is what I do for enjoyment. I imagine from some of the posts om this site others have a different focus of worship and maybe different theo;ogies to me. I would have difficulty having a common denomination with all involved in this forum. That does not mean I believe they are wrong or right, it's just that they have differences.
I love to offer my insights from my theology and beliefs others may take it up or leave it alone. However with a denomination, a commonality of theologies rather than a commonality of naturism would have to be the focus.
Tevita
Thanks T. as your post like others may mean your theological differences might be too great to have as your primary church, a nude church.
So in that case, would you be tolerant enough in a nude resort or an occasional Sunday, go sometimes to a more informal, non denominational, less theological, praise, prayer, service where theology specifics weren;t mentioned but the joys and beautyies of God's creation were mentioned, and thanks given to the Lord.
So many different theologies, but wouldn;t the Lord be pleased if we dropped them once in a while and just associated in the nude with others of the same honest exterior, so as to join our interior souls together.
It could be a secondary church, a secondary fellowship. I mean I have very specific doctrinal opinions on so many subjects and yet am willing to go to all kinds of churches, if they simply thank the Lord for life and love in a general way, their way. They aren;t my specific and main choice, but if we get toooo intolerant of others, wouldn;t we limit ourselves and the associations we might connect up with. Besides might it not please the Lord, and make Him happy that we aren't too proud to combine with others, in His Name.
Just a thought or thoughts .. a secondary church started by T. All things are possible, even if it started only with a ten minute silent refelction and prayer to the Lord by varying Christians at a nude beach, with a song afterwards, and a non sexual hug to end the meeting as you all then went back to your areas on the beach... Hmmmm.... and talked to people around you, about the Lord if the right situation occurred...
David I'm not sure if you are talking about an ongoing church or simply occasional worship with other nude Christians. An ongoing church needs meaty in deapth subjects for on going growth in faith, we need some teaching even if we disagree with parts of the teaching. A church that is into praise without teaching will either have a high turnover or will wither away and die as there is no fertilizer.
I would definitely share in a praise worship with other nude Christians if we happened to be in the same place at the same time, irrespective of the theologies and doctrines.
Tevita
A regular church needs to be as deep as possible even though in my opinion regular churches are very shallow as most like it that way, because most don;t want to give much to the Lord and don;t want to pass on His love that much.
But a regular nude church could be deep if principles like Boyd has written about were incorporated. Nudity can be linked to honesty and humility and with the righteousness of the Lord in opposition to the self righteousness of the regular holiness churches.
Maybe a majority of nude Christians would be that way aligned already and they could easily flow into that kind of deep church. In this way nudity and Christianity could be a real lifestyle of honesty, humility and love. But it takes seeking the Lord to find the right common ground that is both deep and agreed upon by the Lord Himself.
But from what I am getting, T. most have a denominational religious doctrine already, to these maybe only a short witness of a service on a beach, might be great and inspiring and be a vechicle for both a chance to worship the Lord and a chance to reach out to other Christians and non Christians.
For what I am getting T. is that the vast , and I mean vast majority of Christian nudists are out there on the beaches and yet they have no way of associating. And furthermore I believe that the vast numbers of nude Christians have already left the hypocritical false church system and are without fellowship because they don;t know any honest nudist Christians that just believe in the simple love of Jesus and His simple down to earth words.
This most church people would disagree with because they are so aligned with a church system, but from 30 years in being a missionary and talking to any and all, many people outside the church system are a whole lot more honest and even Christian based than most in the church system. It is to these brethren that I think a nude Christian short or long service and fellowship would be a GREAT BLESSING.
There are non-denominational services in some naturist resorts for Christain Naturists. But I wouldn't go so far as calling it a "second church". Jesus Christ built ONE church. Many people gather in many places, but you are placed where God placed you and you and your fellow Christians gather there.
Boyd, but as far as I have heard no regular church acccepts nudity or will ever accept nudity. And if nudity and honesty are a truth, then the church is not truthful, and hence starting a more truthful, down to earth, honest simple, humble and straight forward church of believers can only be an improvement on the old worn out, out dated ones. The Lord's spirit has always brought on spiritual and physical nudity and honesty, SEE the example concerning the prophets prophesying nude ... so how can we do worse than the untruthful and rigid and cold churches of the present.
They won't change, or accept the nude truth, so why can;t we lead if nudity is part of the truth. For it is not just a pleasure and a recreation but a far deeper principle than merely shedding one;s clothes.
Not quite. Up to the Sixties Central Europe (Austria, Germany - - ) hat their lawas about "ensuring youths healtful development" and "public nuisance" - - ;
churches were for law and order and supplied the authorities with "indecent"
material for oersecution.
Around 1980 the communities of Bad Goisern and Obertraun / Hallstaettersee by
decree dedicated each one half of the lakeshore in their property to "FKK"; the
provincial government requested the approval of the local parishes (Catholic -
it is Austria - and Protestant - the salt miners since centuries were not reconverted to Catholicism and because of their economical importance not expelled.
All the parishes did give their approval.
Millstatt on Millstaettersee followed in the same way.
Yes, Z, times change and every now and then some nudity is allowed, and even a nude church arrises or a small group called a cult by the large cultic churches. The regular law and order church cults, just won;t allow a nude church to survive and so will persecute them. This is a fact of life, and hence we have now regular churches that will never ever accept nudity .. and with it pure honesty and humility.
But if we were small and seemingly weak in their eyes and only have services in homes, or on the beaches, they would overlook it.
In My Opinion ....
But it is true that many European countries are NOT so bias against nudity, after a long cold winter the summer sun feels good on the skin..
Not quite. Up to the Sixties Central Europe (Austria, Germany - - ) hat their lawas about "ensuring youths healtful development" and "public nuisance" - - ;
churches were for law and order and supplied the authorities with "indecent"
material for oersecution.
Around 1980 the communities of Bad Goisern and Obertraun / Hallstaettersee by
decree dedicated each one half of the lakeshore in their property to "FKK"; the
provincial government requested the approval of the local parishes (Catholic -
it is Austria - and Protestant - the salt miners since centuries were not reconverted to Catholicism and because of their economical importance not expelled.
All the parishes did give their approval.
Millstatt on Millstaettersee followed in the same way.
Worldly churches will includes almost all Christian churches, Kevin are NOT based on the Lord's love and GRACE but only use His Name as a cover-up, and hence even if they have a similiarity to the truth, they are usually miles from it.
Pity but true.
They will NEVER EVER ACCEPT nudity and honesty, never. And so you must realize that if nudity is true and good that they are out of the spirit... and they are..
Another reason this is difficult is the number clustered in one area.
While the denominational issues may be important, I am not going to drive hundreds or even tens of miles weekly to fellowship with other nude believers.
I am much more willing to participate in a church that may not (or may, I haven't really explored it) believe that nudity in a social setting is acceptable. I am a Christian first, a naturist somewhere down the line in priority.
I would equate this issue with the issue of drinking. Many churches I grew up with frowned upon even a glass of wine with a meal. Many others I have known since have no problem with alchol if used within biblical guidelines ("Be not drunk with wine..."). I am not, however, going to start a church specifically for those who like to drink rather than not.
In the Bible, drinking and nudity are treated about the same. You'll find sections, some condoning and some condemning these. There is no firm position on either. It's up to the person.
No, I wouldn't drive miles just to go to a nude service and hear things completely unscriptural from the pulpit. Did that once at a gathering of westerners in Tokyo. We had a "special" service with singing by a choir in Latin followed a baptism of an infant by a female elder. The baptism wasn't even scriptural. Not only was it an infant, it was a sprinkled.
Nude churches in my opinion, should be very basic, and maybe even very short, even if held on a nude beach. And there should never be any surprize theologies thrown in, or wierd prayers made. Ha, stick to commen ground, stick to the basics .. and then surely all things are possible
Keep it simple and straight forward ... and Christian... no special theologies or dogma or anything, and it should be known beforehand.... a Statement of simple beliefs should be put down on paper and not varied from... it should be available on line, so NO surprizes happen and no one is offended. I hate churches where I am not told about such and such, and in some cases I have had to walk out, just too much doctrine that I would have to be party to if I remained.
What would happen let's say at Wreck beach, where I went to, if about eight Christian nudists gathered, sang a few agreed on songs had some silent prayers and then went back to their towels and logs among the others.
Others sing, why not us. No blatant in your face witnessing, just normal songs like others and a silent prayer or short prayer of respect and thanks, and maybe others Christian nudists might join in next time. Normal naturasl Thanks to the Lord.
Sounds good to me, I would join in that.... despite my many theologiacal opinions.
Worship of God in and outside of Church has become very personal to me lately.
Although I realize that we all worship differently, some through the music, some through the message given, some through prayer, etc, keeping a church service short because it is being held on a beach in a more public setting, or at the top of the ski slope (in the case of some ski areas) really limits the type and length of service available to those who attend.
If one were to start a church (nude or otherwise), having a situation where the clock is not watched would be far better. Unfortunately, in the US, we are so busy, it it difficult to get people to sit (or sit/stand/sit/stand...) for 1 1/2 hours or so.
Interestingly enough, I once read in John McAurhors book "The Charismatics" that the Shakers, a sect that didn't believe in sex, danced naked during their services. This, of course, was in the 1800s and earlier. I haven't been able to find information to that effect from anyother source.
Good points bornnude and we'll be going to heaven nude.
My suggestion for a quick little service on the beach, if there were sufficient beach goers, as in the case I was thinking of - WRECK BEACH, Vancouver where there were maybe 600 nudists in a very small area - was intended a bit more like a quick get together, and thanks to the Lord, rather than a full service of teaching and complete praise, etc. It could be a unity and reminder while there of the Lord's blessings AND a type of witness however sutle to both Christian and nonChristians there, that might want to find out more about the joys of combing Christianity and nudity. In other words it would or could be a mellow and sutile witness of a community of Christians that are not ashamed of their bodies, that might help others join the community in their own way on and off the beaches.
As for nude dancing, Yes the Charismatics have danced nude in some of their services, as automatically the spirit of the Lord compels us to strip away outer garments and dance before Him in total abandonment as King David did before the ARK.
The Vineyard ministries did this or do this I am told, but they have a few other problems as I am told as well.... but whatever, the Spirit of the LORD does stir us to removing our clothes and dancing in the SPIRIT as unto the Lord.
Actually I found those Bible verses from a hyperlink that Boyd has on his website. Masybe we should go over it, as it is straight from the GOOD DANCING BOOK.... the Bible.
Thanks and blessings bornnude
N.D. (Nude david)
But I don;t look quite like the famous nude statue of David, but thank the Lord their are similarities.
I do think numbers is the great restricting factor. On the one hand there aren't that many 'open' Christian nudists that would be willing to go to a church service for nudists. ... so a secondary nudist church might be the solution, where nudists sometimes associate on a beach or near a beach and gather together, for where two or three nudists are, there is the Lord among them, and the greatest church is in His Great OUTDOORS, His Temple.
But on the other hand, if there was a basioc quideline or statement of belief by nudist leaders, to put on paper a Christian but nudist 'gospel' as Boyd has done, then its tenets because scripturial and basic and loving and honest and open, could be acceptable as a secondary church by a whole lot more nudists than we might imagine.
For it is my belief that the number of Christian nudists is immense, but because the majority of them are not comfortable saying they are Christian because of the stigma of the regular church system (that they do not want to lose contact with) then they shy away from coming out of the closet - so to speak. But with a format and small steps of success, from dedicated open loving, but not extreme nudists, many more nudists would ADMIT their Christianity, and small strong loving honest nude Christian groups could be established. And success breeds success, and others start up according to the success foundation of the first one or ones.
And that first one could be started by bornnude, no theology degree needed only a love for the Lord and a love for your brothers and sisters needed.
Why is it that Women or Females are being Captialized. Capitalizing means yelling or excitement. What if I typed about all the MEN I saw at a NUDE Beach. wouldn't you MEN on this group watch out for me the next time you go to the NUDE BEACH. You may think I am a pervent after the MALE BODY.
I doubt I would go to a NUDE church myself. Too many people out there that don't have Jesus Christ in their hearts, mind and soul use nudity as power and control. It's just evil nature.
As I am a total believer in the equality of the sexes. Neither gender are angels in my opinion and neither are devils. Both genders have similiar hearts and both need the Lord and His Love, and both like individuals want power and control... SEE the thread concerning this below.
And both can try to use any tool available including sexuality or nudity to try and control others. It's shameful but a fact of life.
But back to the topic at hand... in a church setting, I would suggest total equality among men and women, with either being able to lead, because the Lord is not a sexist and does not favour men over women, and neither are women basically more angelic than men. The leaders of a group are those with a heart and soul for the Lord and a love for others, and it matters not whether they are male or female in my opinion.
This does not go well with some church Christian types, and probably with equality you would lose a lot of potennial nude church goers. But I for opne don;t think I could handle even a secondary church where women are looked down upon. My wife would stand up and blast them in a minute or two, and I would be right behind her, telling her to preach it SISTER, and out we would go, putting on our clothes as we went.
I know I have been trying to say be tolerant about church doctrine in the previous posts, but NOW I reverse and say EQUALITY should be a basic tenet.
But I mean if nude and honest, we are all birds of the same feather or skin and it would show that it is what's on the inside that matters when nude, so forget the outside genitalia, and let's cocentrate on the Lord and His LOVE.
Churches are not (or should not be) built on one premise. That is how cults get started.
A church is built on the gifts of the holy spirit. You need all the gifts to be a church that is doing the work of building the Kingdom. You don't use only masons to build a house, who would put in the electrical, plumbing, etc?
People naturally gravitate towards like minded people. That is why we are here. Churches that are built on "speaking in tongues" does not have the other gifts needed. Other churches are built on "evangelism" but who are the pastors and servers? Some churches are built on "love one another", but leave out the other aspects.
Naturists who want to get together for bible study, prayer groups, or discussion groups, are welcome to do so. But to actually start a church would be stretching it unless your emphasis is not on naturism, but on the whole body of Christ, including all the gifts and fruits. Then naturism would be unimportant by comparison to the true work of Jesus Christ and you might as well be there serving the church where GOD placed you to begin with. (Yes, I said naturism is unimportant).
Naturism is like alcohol, dancing, playing cards, shooting pool, or wearing your dress two inches above your knee. Its an opinion that we share, but we cannot build a church on it. Jesus Christ is the foundation and corner stone. We build on what he has laid the foundation for.
That is why we discuss Christianity here. We do not restrict to naturism. But if a person wants to get off on other issues that are best fit for other boards, such as abortion, alcohol, political or other hot topics, we draw the line to naturism. Yes, the above are things Chrsitians discuss, but on other "Christian [your topic]" board.
You certainly don't want to start a church on anti-abortion, though you would start a Christian support group or online discussion board for anti-abortion.
Same here. We would not want to start a church for naturists (any more than you would start a "clothist" church), though we are very glad to run a discussion board on it. And, yes, we would love to go to church nude, or even see other naturists come to church (clothed or nude). And we would love to have an in-home study group with naturists. But that will be as far is it would (and should) go.
--Boyd "I would love to wear my Sunday Best" Allen
(and my monday, tuesday, wednesday,....everyday...best)
Hi Boyd, like your website and agree with your principles there and hence as a missionary hope nudism and honesty and Christianity prosper by us sharing what we know and believe with others.
So here's my response to yours in ...(...)
Churches are not (or should not be) built on one premise. That is how cults get started. (Exactly as nudit is not enough to start a church on, but in combination with honesty, humility, equality and the simple words of Jesus it would be, and could easily be done in the nude)
A church is built on the gifts of the holy spirit. (And the spirit, caused the prophets to forsake the clothes and become nude, before prophesying. Again meaning nude church services are scripturial if people have the faith for them. Amen ?) You need all the gifts to be a church that is doing the work of building the Kingdom. (And whether clothed or nude, the gifts remain because the Lord looks on the heart and not on the clothes or on the type of gender. )
You don't use only masons to build a house, who would put in the electrical, plumbing, etc? (Any nude tradesman whether male or female, or just meet outdoors when possible, where the Lord does the building maintenance. Church buildings are where 75 percent of all donations go to, and the building is empty 95 per cent of the time, so buildings should not be the limiting factor. Homes are a great place for nudists to meet if that is all there is...just like the early Christians used to do)
People naturally gravitate towards like minded people. That is why we are here. (Amen, and there are a whole lot more Christian nudists or potennial Christian nudists out there who have left the church system because of its unnatural doctrines) Churches that are built on "speaking in tongues" does not have the other gifts needed. (nude people can have just as many gifts as any other, as the Lord again doesn;t determine gift giving by their clothes or lack of them, but by the heart. And if people are wise enough to be humble enough to be honest enough to be nudists or naturialists, is it not possible that they may be endowed with the gifts of the Spirit by the Lord.)
Other churches are built on "evangelism" but who are the pastors and servers? Some churches are built on "love one another", but leave out the other aspects. (So we make a nude church wiser and stronger and more complete in all areas, taking off our clothes does not make us weaker but stronger. Our leaders are among us, as where two or three are gathered together in His Name, nude there is He among us. If other churches have messed up there mistakes don;t have to plaque us, what is that to us. Why fear, when if our hearts are right, the Lord shall lead. besides, even if some start with a mere simple song and pslam or moment of silent prayer on a beach, and a song, who does that hurt when it might be a stepping stone to so much more.)
Naturists who want to get together for bible study, prayer groups, or discussion groups, are welcome to do so. (So let them, and let's encourage on the spot meetings on the beach, even if it is silent prayer holding hands. The sky is the limit, and we don;t have to be limited to back room bible studies, why not open air ones.)
But to actually start a church would be stretching it unless your emphasis is not on naturism, but on the whole body of Christ, including all the gifts and fruits. (Go for it, start one today, nothing ventured nothing gained. Go by your faith and see what happens. If others have a different type of faith, they do their thing for the Lord. and see who they can help. If done in the right spirit and right place in the right time and with the Lord's LOVE all things are possible. Why not ?)
Then naturism would be unimportant by comparison to the true work of Jesus Christ and you might as well be there serving the church where GOD placed you to begin with. -Yes, I said naturism is unimportant-. (I would differ as I would suggest nudity leads to humilty and honesty and should encourage good communication and a real bonding of real people uneffected by the external. No competition with power, prestige, position, and only leadership by the heart and soul whether male or female is surely what a nude church could reprersent and be... and so I would say NUDITY would be a great blessing for a church. Do reconsider Boyd ?)
Naturism is like alcohol, dancing, playing cards, shooting pool, or wearing your dress two inches above your knee. (No much more in my opinion if the motivation in being nude is honesty and humility. Nudity and naturism and giving credit for life and love to JESUS is so essential for Christians and I see nudity as a great advantage in showing Jesus truths. Cover-ups and pretense is paralleded by clothes, although plain nudity itself does not ensure humility or honesty, but it should...!!! If our ideals are right and our hearts are right !!!)
Its an opinion that we share, but we cannot build a church on it. (Yes you can when it is linked to honesty and humilty and simple straight forward love without pretense and prejudices.)
Jesus Christ is the foundation and corner stone. We build on what he has laid the foundation for. (And his foundation is simple and straight forward and a lifestyle of being honest and clear and loving, that can be typlified so easily by the lack of clothing, if people's hearts are right. Not every nudist can join because the inside will have to match the outside as the good LORD said. Clean the outside and the inside. Both can be pure, if we are purely His. The clothes churches have for the most part made a travesty of his words and lifestyles so why can;t some with faith, look for others with faith and have nude churches or simple nude services on the beach ? The Lord would be pleased and so should we .)
That is why we discuss Christianity here. (Good, but the lost are out there and not all people come on line, and so if we were more open out there more people would get freer in the spirit, give more credit to the Lord for their bodies and life, and we would all be happier giving what we have been given from the Lord..Amen !!)
We do not restrict to naturism. But if a person wants to get off on other issues that are best fit for other boards, such as abortion, alcohol, political or other hot topics, we draw the line to naturism. (great !! but could not the Board also be a place where we learn to share the lessons of naturism to others when off the board, at the beach, in the office, or even in a regular church setting. If naturism is good, and it is, then let's learn to share more of it with others)
Yes, the above are things Chrsitians discuss, but on other "Christian [your topic]" board. You certainly don't want to start a church on anti-abortion, though you would start a Christian support group or online discussion board for anti-abortion. Same here. We would not want to start a church for naturists (any more than you would start a "clothist" church), though we are very glad to run a discussion board on it. (I think you're belittling the greatest aspect of nudity that I know of Boyd, and that is that it teaches that the inner qualities are the most important. externally we are basically all the same, and hence do not need to feel ashamed or do we need to compete via our self image. Hence nudity leads to so many good qualities, that it can be a BASIS for a Christian church, for as the prophet said. What is required of us, but to WALK HUMBLY with our God, and walking humbly in the nude is a parallel of that. It is for this reason that Isaiah was asked to prophesy nude, the prophets to prophesy nude. Letting go of this worlds cover-ups and speaking in the Spirit can surely only be done in the nude as was the case in ages past. Same God, same procedure, same Spirit. ) Being Nude is not a little stripping of clothes if done in the SPIRIT, Boyd. It can be demonstrative of soooo much more. Amen ?)
And, yes, we would love to go to church nude, or even see other naturists come to church (clothed or nude). And we would love to have an in-home study group with naturists. But that will be as far is it would (and should) go. (Not with the Spirit, for with the Lord and the right motivations all things are possible. Nudity is not just a little striupping of clothes, Boyd if we learn also to strip away all pretenses and pride and cover-ups)
--Boyd "I would love to wear my Sunday Best" Allen
(and my monday, tuesday, wednesday,....everyday...best
(And we shall in the heavenlies and BEFORE in my opinion, for even when we approach the Throne of God we shall be totally nude, and only by His GRACE shall we receive his transparent white linen robes. What a day to look forward to, so why not some of us start now, in starting nude churches ? I'll do my part..
I remember a few years back reading a article in one of the nudist publications about a church called the church of the naturalway. The article was well written but I am not sure if it is still in existence
The fact of life and churches is thast the regular church will fight tooth and nail against any new church that varies from their unnatural way. If they allowed a nude church to survive, their congregations can surely slip away from their control, and control means everything to them ... the same as was the case with Jesus and the scribes and pharisees.... The synagogues or His day or basically the same as the churches and synagogues of today, no difference.
Hence the only real chance of a nude church developing is if it is very low key .. and a secondary church. A church that seems powerless and non threatening to the Big churches. If they can;t see it via a church building but meetings are held outdoors, or merely in people's homes on a rotating basis, they would allow it by looking the other way.
So I reckon this point has to be made so people go into the persecution angle with eyes wide open. If success in spreading happenned because of our truth and openness and honesty, if pride stepped in and we wanted big meetings, big nude dances, or GASP a building of our own... that would literally be the end of us, and we would all have to put our clothes on, and walk out the door.
So YES small churches have arisen and disappeared because of persecution that can come from different sides. Whether the big boys sending the fire marshall down to close a building or the Social Services being called in because there was nude dancing before a nude teenager.
We would have to be low key, legal, and almost unseen to survive and PROSPER. That goes against our pride, but supposedly as Christians we would have none and would just care about the Lord and small groups in ministering to their needs and worshipping to the full in the nude.
Just a thought .. thanks and blessings to you George.
I was raised as a catholic but dismissed it when I realised that they used negative methods to enforce adherence to their belief. (This just as background)
My opinion is that we don't want any more churches, naturist or otherwise. As long as we have faith; real, honest sincere faith, we don't need religions. Religions are control systems set up by insecure believers to promote their interpretation of the Bible.
Rather naturists should gather in discussion groups where their ideas can be aired without condemnation but with constructive criticism. Websites and forums are the best places for this.
I like the idea of the Holy Spirit. It has no baggage from previous abuse by clerics. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but the junk taught me as a pupil in Marist Brothers really upset me even though it set me on a lifelong quest for truth. I think I have found that truth but it is quite a radical thought and not appropriate here.
