Dear Brothers & Sisters in Christ, I have a question that is not to start a morals or condemnation fight.

I want to know the best way to love a very close brother in Christ who requested me to post this message. He came and confided a deep and dark secret of the heart. I told him GOD love him is unconditionally and nothing he said would change that with the people that truly love him.

The confess was that he was he was bisexual and he wanted to come out of the closet and be true to himself, However, he is afraid to tell his brothers and sisters would start the condemnation and stone throwing.

I want to know from the group feel if a person come out and confess that they are bisexual/gay and asking that the congregation help him to be a better celibate Christian and walk the straight narrow.

I requesting Boyd to deleted this message if there is a moral, theological, condescending fight/debate on the board. For I find this is the number reason why must of our Gay/BI brothers & sisters leave the church or give a married and live a lie most of there lives.

A Brother in Need of Advice

It all depends on the denomination.

If he's Catholic, he might want to look into the "Dignity" groups. Although I have never been a member myself, I once knew a member of that group; from what he said, the group puts importance on being celibate.

I'd suggest he does a goggle search on "Gay"+ "Spirituality" or "Gay"+"Church". there is a lot of information out there, and your friend may find a community close to his home that will welcome him for who he is.

James C

We don't usually disuss other issues on this board, but it seems that you have come with an open hand and even requested a deletion if not appropriate. We will give you the benifit of doubt.

First of all, you are correct. Your friend needs to realize that God does NOT promote or allow homosexuality (bi makes no difference). That is clear in the Word of God.

However, God does love the homosexuals, NOT for what they do, but that they are sinners just as all mankind are sinners. Jesus died for us ALL!!

God's love is unconditional, but for the sake of communion with Christ, he must refrain from homosexuality.

One comment you did make, though, that many people are finding trouble with in their lives. "Being true to yourself". We must first be true to Christ, NOT ourselves. Even us naturists has to face the idea that we may be wrong in our beliefs (I have commented on this in my articles in my website) and will have to "put our pants back on".

We have to be true to Christ first, NOT ourselves. We do however, need to be true to ourselves in admiting when we are wrong in our beliefs. We cannot lie to ourselves, and if that is what he meant, then yes, he needs to be truthful about his situation and not fool himself.

I hope we are of help to you here. But I think you may have already answered your own question and are looking for validation. That is fine, I look for validation all the time! Yes, God loves him. That is why he sent his only begotten son to die for him, and all others on earth throughout history and beyond!

Now your brother needs you to be there to support him, bring him into the fold in your church and become a disciple of Jesus Christ. Do not forsake him. Jesus didn't.

Boyd "We are not perfect, just forgiven" Allen

We don't usually discuss other issues on this board, but it seems that you have come with an open hand and even requested a deletion if not appropriate. We will give you the benefit of doubt.

 Thank you for letting post this message and discuss this issues before resigning their 20 years of Ministering in Tidewater Area.

First of all, you are correct. Your friend needs to realize that God does NOT promote or allow homosexuality (BI makes no difference). That is clear in the Word of God.

 THIS IS THE KIND OF COMMENTARIES OF THE WORD THAT HAS THEM STAY LOW OR IN THE CLOSET. They have searched the old and New Testament in Hebrew, Greek, & Aramaic and could not find one word that closely translated word homosexual over the last 30 years.

However, God does love the homosexuals, NOT for what they do, but that they are sinners just as all mankind are sinners. Jesus died for us ALL!!

God's love is unconditional, but for the sake of communion with Christ, he must refrain from homosexuality.

 If a person come out and confess that they are bisexual/gay and asking that the congregation "HELP HIM TO BE A BETTER CELIBATE CHRISTIAN AND WALK THE STRAIGHT NARROW."

 True... We have to be true to Christ first, however, do need to be true to ourselves in admitting we are bisexual/homosexual and cannot lie to GOD or himself, and that is what he meant to be truthful about his situation and not fool himself.

 You have help to you here. But I think you still using those back door commits that make him feel afraid to come out and be public in his wishes about the lust of his eyes. Yes, God loves him. That is why he sent his only begotten son to die for him, and all others on earth throughout history and beyond!

 Now brothers and sisters they needs you to be there to support them, bring them into the fold in your church and began to live out celibacy as disciple of Jesus Christ.

Brother in Need Advice

You seem to be unhappy with the response. We do accept him and we do love him. I already said that. Why are you upset with that?

Keep in mind, this is not a church. If you have an issue with a local church, like yours, who is not accepting bisexuals or homosexuals in their fold, then go to them, not us. We can say all we want to here, but that is the church that needs to be worked with, not us.

This forum is about naturism in light of Christianity, not homosexuality. We already confirmed that Jesus is willing and loving. We are too. But you may want to go to another support forum for this issue.

Please do not get upset with us or cause others to be upset because we have said nothing to discourage you. We may not be the people who can help you at this time.

Boyd Allen

My understanding of the church is that it is a place where all us sinners—we're all sinners, after all—can come and find a safe place to stand where we are accepted and loved. In that safe place we hear and study the Word of God, and allow God to do whatever business with us that He chooses. NO ONE should need to change anything in order to come to the church.

But after all the reality is that we are all sinners, and so churches often fall far short of their ideal. In the US, more than in many other countries, there is tremendous negative emotional energy attached to sexual issues. The result is that there are indeed some churches who minister effectively to persons who understand themselves to be gay or bisexual, but there are not many. Most congregations are simply not equipped to do other than harm on this topic.

This is a matter in which I have had some practical experience. This forum isn't the place to deal with the issue you raised, but you are invited to email me if you would like some suggestions. Just click on my underlined name at the top of this post.

Thank you Luvnaturism for your experience and willing to help via email. I hope you will be of help to him.

Boyd

We as believers of God's word can not sugar God's conmendment. If we don't say it is a sin than we are just as guilty as the sinner. I doubt ours word puts a man/women in the closet. I believe its their ego and pride. I find it interesting this article posted after the Governor of New Jeresy announced his affair as being bisexual/gay. When it comes to being "gay" lifestyle that is unnatural to God's plan for man. I also believe that this is not the only sin they are holding within. The American Psychological Association decide to take the terminology out of their DSM book and leaves many individuals to seek help without help. NO not really. They can go to the church and seek a pastor to counsel them.

Now is the pastor ready to help them? Or are they going to hurt them?

I hope churches are banking up their spiritual leaders and identifying the gifts within their congregation. There are way too many people sitting in church with gifts they have no idea they have. God has given each person a gift to serve in some capacity. Some may have the gift of counceling and have the right temprament to serve these people in the way they need serving. These councelors within the fold are not pastors or leaders. They are just that, councelors who are specialized in certain areas. Pastors who cannot help gays/bisexuals (that is not a bad thing, just gifted in other areas), need to be able to identify those who can and ask them to help in this area.

That is what our congregation is doing now. We are learning to identify the gifts within the congregation so we can have a team we can count on. Just like this board, we began to identify (somewhat) some here who are gifted in helping others here. That is why I was able to find a person to help me keep this board on line.

Others volunteer (as above) to step in and help because they already know their gifts and are able and willing to use them.

Each one here has gifts (one primary, two or three secondary) that is useful here and especially at your church. I just hope everyone IS going to church and actually learning to identify and use those gifts.

People who say "I just don't get anything out of going to church" is a bench sitter and not using their gifts God gave them. Everyone has a gift of serving. Anyone can serve in some capacity in church.

Find your gift and may God bless you all in helping you to use it.

Boyd Allen

The best way to gain any thing from church is top become involved! The best way to get involved is to find your gifts and develope them further in such a way to glorify God.

To be a good counselor you need the gift first then the training to further develope the skills. To counsel is ro guide and poit the ways for the other to follow not to take the other and walk them through. That is the job of a crisis worker or a therapist. Again this requires training.

The worst results I have seen was produced by a Pastor who thought he could counsel without specific training and we ended up with a church split!
The person came to the pastor with issues of abuse and all the pastor saw was issues of the persons own promisquity! Yes acknowledge rhe latter but get an expert to address the former. "Prayer couseling" maybe fine for some things but for issues of abuse, rape and violence these things need experts. And the issues of sexuallity? I'm sorry churches are the last organisations to have developed expertise in this area as they have denied the existance of such things for so long.

We are lucky though that some Christians have developed expertize in dealing with sexuality through their work that can be tapped into by the churches. We have found this in this contry that the churches have had to turn to Christians with secular roles addressing abuse to solve some of the institutional difficulties around abuse. They have not yet come to terms with using Christians with secular roles addressing the issues of Homosexuallity and other sexuality not considered "normal" becouse I feel the churches fear these issues still.

I have found that people with these issues are not best served by the church but by Christians working in the secular area of counseling or therapy.

If people in Australia wish to have help by such people they can email me and I will try and link them in with some one local to their own area so they can gain face to face counseling or therapy such as what they need. I do at present have difficulty with the concept of counselling via Email though one of my colleges in Family Therapy finds this useful.
Tevita

Isn't it ironic that the Church, which should be the best place to find help on any subject, fails so miserably on the subject of sex and sexuality?

We've got the owners' manual, but too many people are to embarassed to discuss some things in public.

Then there are the ones who don't want anyone telling them or their kids how to be or how to act, especially sexually.

The church should be the best place to find out God's will on these things, but it honestly isn't sometimes.

A shame, ain't it?

Kevin

To be simple and straight forward, the Lord does NOT look at people's sexuality or orientation when judging them, but looks atr their hearts and motivations. Heterosexuals are not angels, and the celibate are not angels, and could be great sinners because of the atitudes of their hearts.

The worldly church teaches self righteousness sexuality and
no sex before worldly marriage sexuality, but such is not what the Lord taught, but people have to find that out from there own.

SEE http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?webtag=libchrist&nav=message for open honest scripturial discussions or the website for answers ... http://libchrist.com

This will get me kicked off, but you all brought up the subject and the Lord expects honest answers, not church anti-sex doctrine.

Love in Jesus

David

Glad to have the question asked. It does depend on the church and the pastor(s). I am one pastor in KC,MO,USA who does not think God condemns gay/lesbian/bisexuality. I believe god affirms respect, commitment and responsibility. Encourage your friend to look around for a church that feels comfortable. If the friend already has a church that he wishes to be a part of, then the answer will depend on that particular group of people.

With blessings, Rev. Bob

I have been going down Boyd forum threads and found this one from several months ago. If anyone is still listening...
I do not say this lightly or tritely, but there is healing for homosexuality, and if so, why settle for acceptance? I have to refer you and anyone else interested in the healing of sexual-identity-perception to the wonderful work and writings of Leanne Payne, whose ministry team for her Pastoral Care Ministries is made up almost exclusively from former homosexuals and lesbians who have been healed by Christ, many of whom are now happily married. She is a C. S. Lewis scholar and an Episcopal Charismatic. Some of her books are "The Broken Image," "Crisis in Masculinity," and "The Healing of the Homosexual." But I went to her week-long Pastoral Care Ministries seminar and saw before my very eyes a massive group-healing of Asian young women from internalized misogyny. It was shocking and beautiful. She holds these seminars often in Europe, but one finally made it out to the SF Bay Area, and it was awesome to attend. Her website is: www.leannepayne.com

--PastorDavidRN