Because Boyd hyperlinked on his website to a great principle of the Bible and of the Lord. allow me to repost that web address, and suggest that nudity is important to the true church and it is not just a recreational pleasure as some treat it as ...
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A sexual ceremony to the Lord is not for mere pleasure but is surely suppose to be a very serious method of uniting with the Lord's SPIRIT... and if we do this with the right frame of mind, we should hear directly from the Lord through PROPHESY.
And so if this entails honesty and taking away all cover-ups, would not getting nude help us in getting honest, truthful, and free ?
Well it seems from the Bible, the same was done by the prophets of the Lord in the past. Many of the prophets prophesied NAKED.
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(As posted on SSSC, libchrsit, ProphecyNewswatch, previously)
So if interested, please hyperlink to this excellent web-site http://www.tekline.co.uk/natjes1.htm that talks about how the Spirit of the Lord directed the prophets of the Lord to prophesize naked, and whoever joined them got in the Spirit as well and became became naked.
So just as a possibility, because nakedness and praise and even intercourse and unity can lead to a GREATER UNION with the Lord, isn't it natural in some cases that we might have prayer praise healing sessions for those that are sick, so we might have a laying on of hands, and even bodies as did the prophets.
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In other words, sexual ceremonies done in the nude can unite us with the Lord's naked Holy Spirit, as we become ONE....and its all in the Bible and possible for us if we have the FAITH.
A symbol of complete openness to God in service — 1 Samuel 19.19-24, KJ21:
And it was told Saul, saying, "Behold, David is at Naiaoth in Ramah." And Saul sent messengers to take David; and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as appointed over them, the Spirit of God was upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied. And when it was told to Saul, he sent other messengers, and they prophesied likewise. And Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they prophesied also. Then went he also to Ramah, and came to a great well that is in Sechu; and he asked and said, "Where are Samuel and David?" And one said, "Behold, they are at Naioth in Ramah." And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah; and the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on and prophesied until he came to Naioth in Ramah. And he stripped off his clothes also and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Therefore they say, "Is Saul also among the prophets?"
From this, it would appear that Samuel and his company of prophets were meeting together naked at this time and that, as first David and then Saul joined the prophetic band, the Spirit of God moved them to likewise strip naked. While it is never stated exactly why the Spirit moved the company of the prophets to remove their clothes to prophesy on this occasion, it is clear that it was the Holy Spirit's leading and that God never as a result reproved them (or David or Saul, for that matter) for the sin of nakedness. As is explained in several other articles in this series, one of the functions of clothing is to demarcate a sphere of personal privacy within which we can at least feel (albeit incorrectly) that our sinful nature is hidden from other people and from God. Therefore, it might be speculated that the Spirit moved the company of the prophets to nakedness on this occasion and that David and Saul joined them in this state to dramatize for the benefit of Saul or of David the truth that they could hide nothing from God and His prophets, not even their bodies. But since God never says why He moved the prophets to do this, only speculation is possible. What is clear is that the Holy Spirit moved these men to prophesy naked and God never reproved them for it.
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Edited 6/27/2004 12:17 pm ET by JAYJORDA1
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From: JAYJORDA1 Jun-27 12:25 pm
To: ALL (3 of 3)
85.3 in reply to 85.2
HMMMM... and a very very important verse, a portion of which I had never realized before.... and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh .
For we are not to have self righteous ceremonies and fasting and prayers for SHOW and PRIDE, but for sake of joining with the Lord and with each other ... but before doing so we have to literally help our brethren.... and in this case if they are naked to the elements, provide clothing for them, and food and drink, and our homes. We are to take in the outcasts of the Lord, for the Lord has taken us in... and THEN and ONLY THEN would our hearts and lives be right that we could go naked toward Him in prayer and prophesying... and hide not ourselves from our own flesh.
Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy rereward. Then shalt thou call, and the Lord will answer; thou shalt cry, and He shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; and if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noon day: and the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
David,
as you prefer to preach what you believe and what you think is the truth, I will try the same.
The facts are: There is nothing in the bible saying that nudity is a sin. And there is nothing in the bible saying that if you what to be spiritual, tought by the holy spirit, be able to prophesy, to heal, to pray...even to have sex, you must be nude.
So nudity is not sexual, nudity is just what it is, the absence of clothing, the human being in its original status.
When the prophets walked around nude nudity was a sign for total devotion to GOD and the lack of any bondage towards earthly belongings and necessities (in India they still do this nowadays)
And that is one of the reasons I like to the nude lifestyle, as a sign of freedom from all the cultural traditions and bondages, it is like getting rid of the TV set. So there is no primarily spiritual context but it may well lead to more spirituality, but nudity is not spiritual itself.
The same with your statement: Nudity is sexual.
That is bullshit! (I just try to be just honest )
Simple: when I walk down a beach naked, the least thing I have in mind is sex, its the wind, sun and water and freedom I am overwhelmed with
Even more simple: The naked prophets for sure did not have any sexual intention.
By the way: I do not have to be naked to have a sexual desire or to have sex.
Your are right, that even Christians are sexual beings, but so what? It is not part of my religion, it is part of my existance on earth and in this context I might as well get an understanding of the spiritual meaning of intercourse with my beloved wife. But I do not need sex to get an understanding of spirituality. And that is how I understand you, that the acceptance of sexuality as an instrument to achieve spirituality is essential to become a real Christian.
I too once believed for a while that if everybody would walk around naked we would end up as better people (and Christians) but I have realized that this dream will become true only in paradise.
With or without clothing we are still what we are, sinful human creatures with all their struggles and unbelieves, desires, wishes, and problems depending solely on the mercy of God in Jesus Christ. That is the reality.
Jack
Jack, I quess you are trying to make a name for yourself so allow me to respond to your comments with mine in ...(...)
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David, (Yes Jack)
as you prefer to preach what you believe and what you think is the truth, I will try the same. (not a problem if you stay respectful; knowing the Lord is reading along)
The facts are: There is nothing in the bible saying that nudity is a sin. (Agreed, the Lord made us nude and made everything that exists.. SEE http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/CreationversusEvolution.html for if there is anything that I teach it is Creation Science, and am adamantly opposed to the insanity of evolution, which is one of the reasons why I know the human body is so powerful spiritually, when we are in the right SPIRIT and nude)
And there is nothing in the bible saying that if you what to be spiritual, tought by the holy spirit, be able to prophesy, to heal, to pray...even to have sex, you must be nude. (Read again the verses about the prophets being nude when the Spirit came upon them, the Spirit of the Lord has not changed one iota, unless you have different inside information, which I doubt very much)
So nudity is not sexual, (Says you..) nudity is just what it is, the absence of clothing, (and the revealing of sexual organs and genitalia. That's straight forward and simple, the only different things revealed on a nude beach is genitalia, haven;t you noticed this before Jack ?)
When the prophets walked around nude nudity was a sign for total devotion to GOD (Not so, sometimes it was a sign of the nudity of having nothing that God was going to do to those that didn;t obey. They would go as prisoners, totally naked and without clothing in the hot sun, and be captives. It was not just a sign of total devotion. SEE http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Isaiahprophesiednaked.html )
and the lack of any bondage towards earthly belongings and necessities -in India they still do this nowadays= Reread above chapters again Jack. Going nude can be a horrendous display of arrogance as some do on nude beaches. remember sin is in the heart, and going nude does not make one humble automatically at ALL. Going nude can stem from pride in one self and supposed pride in showing off one's body. Don;t you know this Jack ?)
And that is one of the reasons I like to the nude lifestyle, as a sign of freedom from all the cultural traditions and bondages, it is like getting rid of the TV set. (It shows a little but very little in my opinion. It is not a lifestyle in my opinion SEE wreck beach thread, because there is little community in mere nudity. Nudity in and of itself is rather boring if you ask me, and without the spirit is rather a show of arrogance in most acses if you ask me.) So there is no primarily spiritual context but it may well lead to more spirituality, but nudity is not spiritual itself. (Exactly, it has to be combined with the Lord's spirit and humility etc... then it can be part and parcel of a great experience)
The same with your statement: Nudity is sexual.
That is bullshit! (Please watch your language, Jack, maybe use the word dung. remember their are minors here, somewhere) I just try to be just honest (And possibly honestly wrong)
Simple: when I walk down a beach naked, the least thing I have in mind is sex, its the wind, sun and water and freedom I am overwhelmed with (If you say so, hopefully you aren;t full of pride with your own body, as that would be a sin, and the Lord does know our hearts intent. Amen ?)
Even more simple: The naked prophets for sure did not have any sexual intention. (Whoa, lets see what prophet went in unto the prophetess. What prophet married a harlot in obediance to the Lord ? What prophet had two wifes, four wives, etc. etc.
By the way: I do not have to be naked to have a sexual desire or to have sex. (Exactly, it can happen naked or clothed, no difference whatsoever. And if you say you haven;t committed sexual thoughts or adultery in your heart ever never, do reread jesus's words concerning this to the scribes and pharisees. Jack, have you been castrated, or had an operation, or are you normal and natural. Does God's creation turn you off, or do you magically turn yourself off ? Great questions for you to answer if you are able)
Your are right, that even Christians are sexual beings, but so what? (Because the Lord is sexual and created sex, and so of course we are sexual, but we unlike the heathen know that our sexuality is under control and much much more than for mere recreational pleasure..)
It is not part of my religion, it is part of my existance on earth and in this context I might as well get an understanding of the spiritual meaning of intercourse with my beloved wife. (I thought sex was part of life, and religion involved all parts of our lives. But if you say different , that's your religion)
But I do not need sex to get an understanding of spirituality. (Fine, draw your boundaries , but I wouldn;t accuse others if they go beyond you)
And that is how I understand you, that the acceptance of sexuality as an instrument to achieve spirituality is essential to become a real Christian. (You become a real Christian by accepting the Lord, receiving the Holy Spirit and serving the Lord full time. Only mature Christians go further into nudity and sexuality IMO, otherwise they would be doing things for the wrong reasons)
I too once believed for a while that if everybody would walk around naked we would end up as better people (and Christians) but I have realized that this dream will become true only in paradise. (True, but sad as your idealism has vanished in this cold heartless world, much as what I saw at WReck beach... mere nudity wasn;t the answer)
With or without clothing we are still what we are, sinful human creatures with all their struggles and unbelieves, desires, wishes, and problems depending solely on the mercy of God in Jesus Christ. That is the reality. (Amen preach it brother. Talk to you more soon !!)
David,
I would suggest you better preach to those people at Wreck Beach, because everyone on this board has a positiv (christian) attitude towards nudity.
And as you like to give honest personal advice to people I believe it would be only fair if you take some advice as well: You should work on your way how to preach, your missionary style, it is not very efficient in regard what you try to achieve. You repelt quite a few people (long time members) on this board (they left the place with little hope they will ever come back...where are they going?) by entering the board and starting to preach without a single moment of listening. You are not interested in the problems we might have, it seems you are only interested in having an audience for pushing your opinion.
Your method of preaching is very exclusive and in many ways similar to the behavior of the traditional churches with the same effect when it comes to winning people for Jesus and strengthening the weak, they just walk away because they do not get the feeling that they are taken serious in contrary to Jesus who always took the people (children included) around him very serious by almost evertime asking: What do you want from me, what is your need (also Jesus as the son of God would have known it beforehand).
And that is what touched the people´s hearts and chanced their lives.
A quote from mine and your posting: So nudity is not sexual, (Says you..) nudity is just what it is, the absence of clothing, (and the revealing of sexual organs and genitalia. That's straight forward and simple, the only different things revealed on a nude beach is genitalia, haven;t you noticed this before Jack ?)
This comment of yours is a good indication that we, despite using the same worlds, are talking about two completely different things. You go to the nude beach to reveal something, I go to the nude beach to get rid of something
So I do not expect it would be worthwhile commenting on your comments on my comments which were comments on your comments you made on the comments somebody made on your comments which might have been some statements but could also be regarded as comments on a statement somebody else made a day earlier as a comment.....
About the bullshit, when watching an American movie, that is one of the worlds I easily can pick up, because it is used so often. In Australien movies it is the F-word (I assume it will not take long till the people say: "efword" instead of the word itself)
And dealing with minors takes a lot more sensitivity than just avoiding some words they hear and even use in school every day.
Jack,
I like your posts. Although I myself can't say certain explicit words, I don't mind them when read in context of what someone else is saying. When used for shock value, yeah, they're offensive. When used for strong emotional feelings, eh, they don't bother me so much. I was far more offended when David decided to describe in explicit detail how feminine erections occurr than I was by your use of "BS". What's a sensitive person going to be shocked by more? Porn or cussing? In anycase, I like what you've had to say.
Carla, the Lord created women in' His Image' and theyir biology should not offend you, and if I mention that men and women have the same reaction when viewing their oppisites that also should not offend you. Please read the Lord's biology books about how He created us, and then you won;t be offended.
Not offended by the Lord's biology, offended by porn...
August 20 2004, 11:07 AM
Just to clarify,
I'm not offended by the Lord's biology. I'm not offended by God or by being created in his image. I'm offended by descriptive details of sex unneeded at a Christian Naturist's website given by someone trying to promote sex outside of a covenant relationship--marriage--as godly. I'm offended by someone teaching it's okay to lust after naked bodies or that having erections, male or female, is natural and to just go with it because love is sexual. "Bullshit" just isn't that big of a deal in comparison.
Carla,
glad you understood what I tried to say. As we have five children I would have died due to numerous nervous brackdown in conjunction with heart attacks several years ago if I would be too concerned about the words my children bring home from school. I can very well sense if they just use a new word to show off (they usually loose interest after a couple weeks, and start with a new one) or if they realy understand what it means. For example: one of my daughters enjoys commenting to everything her siblings do and say with: Oh, you are gay. She basically know what the word means, but she uses it because it is very powerfull. Her siblings get upset, stop doing what they were doing, walk away from the scene. So whenever she wants to take control she calls everybody gay and she gets it right away. And these situations are hard to control.
And by using the BS word it only took me this single word to express what I meant and everybody clearly understood it without without me spending half an hour winding around with expressions I would have to look up in the dictionary, building long and hard to understand sentences which basically said the same: let's try it anyway, just for fun: I can use the word idiot (just an example), everybody would kill me. I could use the phrase: mentaly handicaped, which might bring me to court, if I use: there is a lack of brain, it might take a second or two till I get hit, so I better use: there is a negative deviation from the average amount of cells positively correlated to the intellectual ability to handle the interpretation of phonetic communication between ceatures belonging to the species homo erectus, I would have plenty of time to run away (I hope I got that one right?!)
Good point Jack, as I am starting to get an impression from you Christian nudists about your motivation in nudity and revealing yourselves compared to the heathen. Sometimes its the same , sometimes its different. Some heathen in humility display, some Christians do it to be natural and normal and its done in humility, but veryu few.
Wreck beach, is a social beach whereas some others beach are secluded beaches which allow private budity... again they are very dfifferent in nature... and in motivation for display.
So good point and I shall make mention of it Jack, before I go, because I truly don;t believe that all of you display because you are just being natural and normal and do it only for natural normal reasons... It doesn;t jive, but that's between you and the Lord and you and me and all have to ask ourselves that question ?.
As for people leaving, why would they leave Jack. I asked simple basic questions that normal people ask, so if you hadn;t answered them previously that would be your mistake rather than mine. The Lord's sheep stay because of the love and foundation. So please don;t accuse me for their leaving... that's shameful.
David,
it is a fact that there were a bunch of families (parents and children) actively participating on this board in the past 10 month and fact is, that they altogether went silent (disapeared?) since you and others have started asking "simple basic questions". (BTW I did not get the idea you were asking questions, it was more like we should be happy to have you around teaching us the real truth about human nature and thus ourselfs)
This might be coincidental but...
I hate to repeat myself, but this board is about nudity and your "simple basic questions" were all about sexuality. Every answer from our side was prompted by you with a sexual interpretation.
How, for example, is male, female or whatever ejaculation related to the lack of clothing?!? Nothing!!
You might have a problem with your male identity in regard to the opposit sex thus putting everything in a sexual context hoping to find some answers, but on this board you get another choice. By reducing nudity to what it actually is I have learned more about myself and the female half of the world (sorry no, I do not represent 100% of the male half of the world ) than with all the worldly teaching in news magazines, TV shows, books (christian and nonchristian) and whatever else.
I am working on a theory which might be quoted as: the devil promotes the need of clothing to sexualize our existence so we can not focus on GOD.
David,
Your posts seem to be a bit strong in theory. We do understand that the prophets probably (and most likely did) prophecy in the nude.
However, I doubt seriously that sex was involved! Especially with the group. There were historical accounts (and the Isrealites ran across it and was a part of it at times, was punished for it too) of other cultures adding sex to their worship practices. It was such an even that was going on when Moses came down from the mountain and exploded in rage and threw down the tablets (with the commandments and laws) and broke them. Then later, many of the people were killed that day!
Here is a helpful hint on this board. You may come up with discussions and bring them to the table, but the "preach" them and be dogmatic about it is getting on some peoples nerves.
Could you bring them up without being forceful? You may be excited about your newfound "truth" but many on here are new naturists and cannot handle the heavy stuff you're bringing up.
Just knowing that the prophets prophecied nude is enough for them for now.
And please do a second research on the sexuality part. I think that was not in the formula then, nor is God expecting it now. Also keep in mind, we are not under the "Law and Prophets" today, we are under Christ.
NOTICE: There are some that are wanting your posts deleted!! As I mentioned before, I am not into deleting at every turn. I don't have a "trigger-happy" finger, but I do know how to use it and I aim very well.
((@)) <---<< = = swoosh! = =
I am posting this because I am not a shame of what I have to say here. I will not email Boyd, I will say it here.
I believe you should take your thinking to a seminary/christian college or achurch and talk to a pastor. I also believe that you may need to have you own website for your own ideas. I am one person that is not on your wave length and see your thoughts into sexuality as dangerous. I will not explain this in detail because there are young adults on this website. But as a Christian Nudist, being nude is not sexual or a sin. Its what you have in your heart, soul and mind.
I will Pray that God leads you in his righteousness.
Spunky, if this discussion board is aimed at the youth and is intended as just a superficial rah rah rah about recreational nudity, I would agree with you that I should leave and never post again. But if it is about increasing people and the yuoth's faith in how nudity is spiritual and sacred and beautiful, then you might consider at least teaching them this MOST basic of verses from the Bible.
Apparrently again, you have not had a discussion on how nudity is spiritual and how the Spirit of the Lord encourages people to be open and honest and nude.
Now allow me to respond to you more directly from what you wrote...
David- (Yes Spunky)
I am posting this because I am not a shame of what I have to say here. I will not email Boyd, I will say it here. (Great be open and honest rather than secretive and email behind my back. Much appreciated as we should have faith in what we write and what we write we write before the LORD. To Him, nothing is secret, for he sees ALL including our hearts and motivations. Amen ?)
I believe you should take your thinking to a seminary/christian college or achurch and talk to a pastor. (But as you all admit, none of them accept nudity and hence honesty and are not humble but proud and for law rather than love and GRACE. I encourage people to start their own church with the Lord's spirit and quidance. SEE below thread)
I also believe that you may need to have you own website for your own ideas. (I do SEE http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/index.html But it is one demensional into nudity as some are... but involves creation, math, biology, history, songs, earth, science, prophecy etc. to bring people to Christ. I have two discussion boards and only one is on Sex, the other is on the Lord's mysteries)
I am one person that is not on your wave length (Love is a litweral wave, pity we aren;t on the same wavelength.. SEE http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/LoveisaWave.html )and see your thoughts into sexuality as dangerous. (Yes dangerous for you because you put sex as a boundary, which is fine by me, as you getting into it would definitely be a sin according to your lack of faith in doing the Lord's first commandment to Him)
I will not explain this in detail because there are young adults on this website. (So terach and train them in the basocs of how the SPIRIT encourages nudity as I am doing) But as a Christian Nudist, being nude is not sexual or a sin. (Nudity definitely does not have to involve any of the other four senses, and can be just involved with visual sexuality. You can make a bound of no touching, kissing, hugging, smeeling, tasting, etc. Not a problem .. according to your faith. But I wouldn;t dictate your bounds to others as a LAW)
Its what you have in your heart, soul and mind. (Amen, that is what determines our righteousness. Our motivation and how much of our heart, soul and time we give to the Lord and others. Amen ?)
But Boyd, why not also get back to the Bible confirmations about how nudity and the SPIRIT go together. This is a Christian nudist naturialist board, so it fits the title perfectly. Amen ?
Yes, Boyd, believe it or not, nudity is a type of sexuality when you bare all your sexual genitalia.
Nudity is the revelation of ALL with nothing held back... and is sexual in nature. And the Devil did not creat us as you have mentioned on your website, and the devil also did not creat sexuality or love-making. As this was done by Jesus, the Creator, the true founder of Christianity, who gave the first commandment to Adam and Eve to 'Have sex, make love, or be frutiful and multiply' ...
So Yes, your website hyperlinked to this truth that the Spirit of the Lord makes us want to be nude, without clothes, and that nudity is not just for mere recreation. It is a part of the true nature of the true church, whereas the false church will never EVER accept nudity, and will remain unholy in their self righteousness.
So let's go over your response in more detail and more specifically, with my comments in ... (..)
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David,
Your posts seem to be a bit strong in theory. (Actually I got it from your hyperlink to a very good nudist site you recommended, as the Spirit of the Lord does encourage honesty, humility and NUDITY. Amen ? Amen !)
We do understand that the prophets probably (and most likely did) prophecy in the nude. (Exactly, and the same is true today, no difference and hence starting a nude church is very reasonable, rational, and scripturial. See the below thread which most including yourself have rejected, because you seemed to deem nudity not important. This a very strange response from people who apparrently are promoting nudity)
However, I doubt seriously that sex was involved! (Who mentioned sex as yet, that's another topic, connected but different as we haven;t got to the Bride and bridegroom principle yet. But it is a no brainer that nudity is part of sexuality.)
Especially with the group. There were historical accounts -and the Isrealites ran across it and was a part of it at times, was punished for it too- (Absolutely because they were having sex with strange gods and not making love to their LORTD and Master, for this they were punished tremendously. Sex was NOT the sin, but who they were having sex with and aligning their love to. Have you not read this and have you not discerned this huge difference ? I mean even now, people love the diols of this world, materialism, nationalism and for this cause the Babylonian Harlot and her followers will be punished. They make love to their things and their pride. This being their sin and not their devoid self-righteous or heathenistic sexuality) of other cultures adding sex to their worship practices.
It was such an even that was going on when Moses came down from the mountain and exploded in rage and threw down the tablets -with the commandments and laws- and broke them. (Exactly, these unbelieveing older generation that were in Egypt so long, loved their old slavery rather than the freedom of the Lord, and loved their old gods of the heathen more than the LORD Himself. And so none of them got to go to the promised land except the young, NONE of the older generation made it. They rebelled when Moses took a black Ethiopian wife, they were racist, they were sexist, and couldn;t break out of their old ways via faith, and so were left behind.)
Then later, many of the people were killed that day! (Yes its scary to face the Lord in self righteousness as these did, and suggest that Moses was wrong in marrying the Ethipopian, and wrong in trusting the Lord, and wrong in trsuting in Him for all their needs, and becoming missionaries.? These types of people will never make it, because they don;t want to give all and are caught up in this present world like the churches of today that reject nudity. They will never ever accept it truths and honest concepts.)
Here is a helpful hint on this board. You may come up with discussions and bring them to the table, but the "preach" them and be dogmatic about it is getting on some peoples nerves. (You mean I can mention a subject but am not allowed to answer questions or search out that subject. This is a strange doctrine, Boyd. besides it came from your hyperlink, so it is hardly a new topic but one that surely you approve of and have hyperlinked to. It is in the Bible, and so should it not be mentioned and discussed in FULL. The Spirit brings on nudity, I thought this topic would have been mentioned multiple times on a Christian nudist website. And do remember nudity is not just a mere recreational choice, that's as bad as the selfish people on libchrist that think sex is just for recreation and pleasure. But at least there and other more open sites, discussions are possible. Hopefully such will be the case here as well)
Could you bring them up without being forceful? (I am not forceful only thorough. Giving science, scriptures, and logic is hardly forceful. In a discussion, we only use words and so it is a dissucssion ONLY of words and principles, and force can not be applied on-line) You may be excited about your newfound "truth" but many on here are new naturists and cannot handle the heavy stuff you're bringing up. (It's straight from your hyperlink Boyd, if it was heavy, you would have removed it right. I mean what better place to start FAITH in nudity than right in the Bible. The Spirit brings on nudity. It should be one of your BASIC teachings Right ?)
Just knowing that the prophets prophecied nude is enough for them for now. (But Boyd, you and others have mentioned how weak the churches are, and how strong you have to be to convince them otherwise, so why not go into depth on this BASIC, to strengthen the new people. They have to have some foundation for nudity. If you want to make a boundary between nudity and sexuality .. teach them your doctrine, use the Bible or whatever. But avoiding the topic will help no one including the weak, and especially the weak.)
And please do a second research on the sexuality part. I think that was not in the formula then, nor is God expecting it now. Also keep in mind, we are not under the "Law and Prophets" today, we are under Christ. (The prophets were never under the law, but spoke as spoken through by the Lord. It has always been the church and the religious system and people that have been under the LAW and into the LAW and not into the Spirit of LOVE and nudity, as prophesied by the prophets.)
NOTICE: There are some that are wanting your posts deleted!! As I mentioned before, I am not into deleting at every turn. I don't have a "trigger-happy" finger, but I do know how to use it and I aim very well.
((@)) <---<< = = swoosh! = = (Do what you will, as that's your choice and your heavy responsibility before the Lord, but do remember the Lord is watching and reading, and judges our actions. The choice is yours...as otherwise swoosh! as you have said. If you can't respond to truths, I think that in and of itself would be an admission of weakness and spiritual immaturity.)
Boyd "Keep focused" Allen
David continuing to say that nudity is important and scripturial and not just a mere recreational superficial pleasure.
My website does NOT say that the Devil created sex. It is impossible! God created it.
The devil used it against us, and we have been very acceptant of the devils lie.
Maybe the site needs to be reread again.
Fact: Now here is some information on my website that I need to let all know here.
The hyperlinks I connect to are not all perfect. If they are overly sexual, too many pictures (mostly women or mostly kids) or other "borderline" subjects, then I will not link to them. However, I do not go through their entire site nitpicking it to death. I'm sure there are things on MY site that not all the readers, even here on this forum, agree with, but that doesn't mean they throw the whole site out.
I don't do that either. I allow the readers to judge for themselves, and if I change my mind or attitude towards a particular subject on my site, I am not against changing it. God wants me to change and grow. Therefore, my site changes and grows.
And if another site I link to begans to crumble, become spiritually lost, then I will remove the link.
But I allow for their opinion as well, even if I don't agree with 100% of everything they say.
So don't make my links my opinion.
I think most of you are grown up enough to know the difference.
If I am wrong on my website, then by all means, point the area out, the site link and comment. I will investigate and change it if necessary.
I have done the same when linking Boyd. I want links to be Christian and want us to agree on the basics of Christianity.... mainly Jesus as the Messiah and Saviour, and agreement to try and spread His LOVE and WORDS to others, but I don;t require exact correlation on the multitude of prophecy, math, biology, earth, science, music or bible details.
But with Prophysing nude, it is definitely scripturial and definitely in the Bible and definitely connects up nudity with being in the Spirit, so in this case, a hyperlink really means nothing because the subject is definitely avout Christianity and nudity, the topic of your Discussion Board.
And I would think this topic of nude prophsying, would be of utmost importance. For me personnally, my main concern is PROPHECY. And I only recently found your site and that hyperlink of yours, and that part of the Bible which agrees totally with the biology, physics, sexuality and spirituality I have been studying and what I have seen and experienced as a missionary.
Ralph, according to your faith be it done unto you, stick to your faith according to what you believe is written. If you don;t see it and the Spirit hasn;t told you more, stick to what you have the faith for. Going beyond without faith would be a sin, even if the truth is beyond what you believe.
So Yes, Ralph I would encourage you to praise and pray nude, and get in the Spirit and see what more the Lord might tell you.
bring others into your garden and not just have recreational nudity but maybe go further into prayer and praise in the nude, and maybe the Lord shall tell you more via His Spirit.
The Lord bless you for the Faith you already have.
If sex is a boundary for you and some others do keep it as your personal boundary. But I would suggest you not make it an absolute boundary for others, for the Lord looketh on the heart and not on the genitals or the activity of the genitals.
IHS
DJJ
Yes, there are Biblical quotes that guarantee that prophets did so nude. Saul joined them and was nude, too.
However, I think there's absolutely no evidence that sex was involved. I've read the Bible through at least a half dozen times. It's not there.
I have had it...No one said it was wrong to pray, rejoice or fellowship with others or alone nude. I do not believe that its sexual but spiritual, as I am sure many other do too. I also do not believe that it is David's place to tell other's how to live their lives as a Christian. It would be difference if Ralph or others had asked. I am not sure if I want to me apart of this discussion anymore. David's ideology to God's word is not just outspoken but judgmental, abusive and dangereous. Not Iam not judging, I am observing it.
Spunky, do go slow and try to respond rather than getting upset....as you are right we are not to condemn others faith, but try to inspire them to further their faith.... and better align themselves to the Lord. But we can;t force or intimidate or demand. people must individually choose.... Right ? And this concept of nudity going directly with the Spirit of the Lord should have been taught earlier, don;t you think ?
So now let's go over what you did write...... My comments in ...(...)
I have had it...(Why, it is just a Christian discussion, Spunky, if you aren;t happy with the content, just discuss with more patience and wisdom and see what happens, but don;t get upset when people don;t always agree with you)
No one said it was wrong to pray, rejoice or fellowship with others or alone nude. (Great that's why I encouraged bornnude to pray, praise and start his own real honest down to earth nudist church. Amen ?)
I do not believe that its sexual but spiritual, as I am sure many other do too. (Great, then stick to what you believe and stay within your boundaries that you have created and don;t condemn others that are not yet there or others who may have gone further than you or who have other boundaries than you) I also do not believe that it is David's place to tell other's how to live their lives as a Christian. (I didn;t but suggested we start nude churches, and if you don;t agree with any sexual aspect to them, don;t include sexual activity, or hugging or whatever..go according to your boundaries, you agree on individually)
It would be difference if Ralph or others had asked. (He didn;t so I encouraged him to start his own church as still no one has mentioned any church that accepts nudity or ever will. )
I am not sure if I want to me apart of this discussion anymore. (That's fine as it is a Christian Discussion board if I have read the title right and the guidelines right, and you can just read along if that's what you like.)
David's ideology to God's word is not just outspoken but judgmental, abusive and dangereous. (Spunky, you are judging me, and so there goes all your so called principle of NOT judging.) Not I am not judging, I am observing it. (Its the same thing andyou are suggesting I am abusive, just because I respond to questions asked me, and comments made in the threads I have started. And again do notice that this topic is PARAMOUNT to the Christian belief that nudity and spirituality go together. So this topic should be discussed, Right, so how can I be abusive in bringing up what should have been brought up before, and how can that be dangerous. It would be dangerous NOT to ground people in the obvious nude references in the Bible. As FAITH only comes from the WORD.)
Anyway back to the discussion with others
All the best within the bounds you set.. blessings in Him
I agree with you. David is sounding more and more like that Free-love "Christian" (HA!!! Ppffft!!!) website that NNH linked for us a long time ago. His, and their, view on sexuality is distorted to a monsterous degree.
I noticed one other thing: David always seems to be throwing around the word "selfrighteous" in his description of the "worldly church", but that is the best word I can come up with to describe his attitude- selfrighteous. He always knows best.
A truely smart man, in my opinion, realizes exactly how much he DOESN'T know, and is willing to listen and learn. Then, you go to the Word to see if what you heard matches up. Sadly, David's ideas do not, and sadder yet, he dosn't realize it.
The best we can do is to pray for him. He needs it.
Yes and I saw his website and was shocked to find out that the Holy Spirit is a female. No No,way... I don't see that matching with the Deity. He tells how he grew up on his own in the Philliphines. I am concerned that he listed the muselim belief, Christianity, science, Sexual dances, and more in his own cognitive process. Some of it is just not worth discussing.
Hi to all
When we have views which are confrontational and controversial this is not the place for it! I do have theologies which would be very different than most on this forum however I am not posting them rather posting only that which units. This forum seems to have been set up to encourage and make comfortable rather than to make uncomfortable. In this way we can face up to the uncomfortable aspects of the life we lead.
If a thread comes along which causes discomfort the best way to deal with it is to ignore it. Give the thread attention we give the thread credibility. Spunkylady stay off the thread and let David fissle off!
David don't try and be a missionary here as you may just do the reverse and turn others from Christ.
Tevita
Well said Tevita. My thought exactly. David has revealed himself not as a Christian naturist, but rather as a missionary for Liberated Christians. He is using every oportunity to turn this forum away from Christian naturism and onto his agenda. Responding to him in any manner promotes his goal and dilutes Boyd's/ours. I have never responded to him and never will. My suggestion is that no one does. He is welcome to his beliefs, but they are in a different ballpark than the one I'm in.
I thought about not responding back to him and the cause and effects. I am concern David is /maybe close to leading his own "James town/Wacco". We need to pray from him and speak out when Neccesary. I had a (ex)good friend that join this church called the ICC(International Churches of Christ. They are very different than the Chuch of Christ. The ICC root themselves in Colleges and high schools only to be kicked out for being controling and abusive. I even read a book called " Combatting Cult Mind Controls." I believe we Christian's are called to speak up to those who have false ideology.
Amen Spunky, we Christians are to speak up against false ideologies, and try to encourage Christians to get off their **** and do something for the Lord... like starting new churches because the old false one is NOT going to accept the truths of nudity and honesty and Grace. SEE above posts and hyp[erlinks you all are posting )
Thanks for the confirmation, that I'm on the right track for these thrity years.
Amen Spunky, we Christians are to speak up against false ideologies, and try to encourage Christians to get off their **** and do something for the Lord... like starting new churches because the old false one is NOT going to accept the truths of nudity and honesty and Grace. SEE above posts and hyp[erlinks you all are posting )
Thanks for the confirmation, that I'm on the right track for these thrity years.
I know I'm going to speak up, including here on this website. Lots of false ideologies going around...
David is not just belittling Jesus but he is trying to change the Bible, God's Deity and the Trinity. I am not sure if you seen his website? But he claim's the Holy Spirit is a female. So if the Holy Spirit is a female and David is "male", guess what he has been doing lately? Do you see why he is so into this and that being sexual?
My beloved sister,
David is belittling Jesus with his teachings. Anything that attempts to take away from the true nature of God and His Word is belittling Jesus and opening Him up to contempt. Though Jesus can't be touched by contempt or shame. It's still disgraceful to associate the Holy with the Unholy.
I haven't seen his website because I don't know where it is. But, it's obvious from his posts here he's a false teacher with a very big lust problem. I pray with all love and sincerety he doesn't make the big sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. He's very close to doing so. Whether he actually has or not depends on whether he'll ever repent or not. Hebrews 6 I'm praying for his repentance.
Can anyone on this thread give me the specific verses that says anyone prophesied nude or had sex in the process? Every account I've ever read when prophesy was done, being naked wasn't even mentioned. King Saul only took of his royal robes. You have to assume there was nothing underneath them to say he was naked. King David stripped when he danced infront of the Ark but he had underwear on. King Saul very well could've as well. I've never read anywhere in the Bible that anyone stripped bare-naked when prophesysing. I've certainly never read anywhere in the Bible that sex was involved.
Chapters and verses, please. No generalities or assumptions about customs and traditions. I want it in black and white straight from the Bible.
Saul was said to be naked while prophesying in I Sam 19:24.
David's clothing in a robe and old style t-shirt (no mention of under britches) are described in I Chron. 15:27 and II Sam 6:14. It clearly says in these or surrounding verses that these were ALL he had on. The old style t-shirt is a lenon ephod. Why would Michel be so mad at him for dancing and just showing some underwear? It clearly says that he was exposing himself.
Thank you Ralph. I disagree with you but at least, unlike some, you're actually using the Bible and I appreciate it.
David's clothing in a robe and old style t-shirt (no mention of under britches) are described in I Chron. 15:27 and II Sam 6:14.
Actually, it says in 1 Chronicles 15:27 that David wore both a linen robe and ephod. It doesn't say he stripped these off dancing. It doesn't say that it was all he was wearing. It mentions these items to show he wasn't wearing his kingly robes but was dressed as a commoner. In 2 Samuel, it mentions only the ephod. What I assume is that he was supported by the priesthood so he wore a linen ephod like the priests wore.
It clearly says in these or surrounding verses that these were ALL he had on. The old style t-shirt is a lenon ephod. Why would Michel be so mad at him for dancing and just showing some underwear? It clearly says that he was exposing himself.
I would agree with you if it actually said that it was all he had on. It doesn't. (This may all depend on which version of the Bible we're reading.) The NIV does have Michal being mad at David for disrobing. AMP has her mad for stripping himself of kingly robes. What I bear in mind is in both chapters, it never says he got undressed or stripped himself of his linen robe. All we have is Michal's complaint. Far as I know, she simply didn't like the King dressing as a vulgar commoner and acting like one.
I'm seriously not trying to nitpick. It's easy to believe King David was partially naked during this time, but I chose not to believe it simply because the Bible describes important articles of clothing and rarely gives the full details. (Like when a soldier gets stripped, it's his armor that's being taken.)
Like in the case of King Saul...
1 Samuel 19:24 He took off his royal robes and prophesied before Samuel and lay down stripped thus all that day and night. So they say, Is Saul also among the prophets?
I can easily assume he was fully dressed and completely covered and the robes are only mentioned because they were immportant articles that denoted his royal stature. It doesn't say he wasn't wearing anything else or that they were all he had on. He could've been wearing an ephod, too, and it simply wasn't important enough to mention here. I don't know, but I don't have to assume he got naked or that he walked around only clothed in robes.
All I wanted to show here was that there's a difference between teaching an opinion about something and teaching what the Bible actually says. It's important when it comes to defending sound doctrine and exposing false doctrines.
There's really no mention of prophets being naked when prophesying. I, myself, don't believe God calls anyone or ever did call anyone to walk around in the general public exposed. My own personal conviction; my own personal opinion. It's based on what I've read in the Bible. But, beyond a shadow of doubt, sex was never involved with prophesy and on that I know you and I could agree!
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