I don't think most women even know about this passage in Proverbs....My view on today's woman....the overkill in advertising, fashion, etc, puts so much emphasis on the sexiness of clothes. Women become self conscious when they don't look like the model, and as a single woman, hearing the single men put requirements on what a woman should look like for them. Even though most middle aged guys have some weight to lose, but God forbid they date a lady with a few extra pounds.....
I don't know how we can attract more women to nudism, but it should come from an advertising angle. Maybe work on the angle of stress reduction.
Women who breastfeed seem to be less concerned about their image. Women that I have known that don't breast feed, always seem to have a negative view on anything natural.
It would be nice to see the major nudist organizations really take a look at how to attract more single women. There seems to be plenty of single men around...
After visiting a couple different resorts, I have seen many women nudist. The only thing about women, they don't advertise nudity. I dont advertise either, after learn alot about naturism and nudity. There are just to many pervented men in the world. Doesn't stop me from being a female nudist. But, I try to be low key. But never quiet!
Re: Breasts are for babies and hubbies says the Bible.
October 2 2004, 8:02 AM
I agree with what Beth is saying that MOST women are not even aware of this verse. However, the verse still holds true today.
We need to emphasise here that naturism is NOT about sexual relationships, though most of our clothed activities are sexual by nature. We have "women" games, "men" games, even dancing has sexual activities with it. Why do some religions only allow men to dance with men? Sex. Why do some only allow men to dance with women? The same reason. And we are talking about religion, forget the rest of the public opinion....which is enfluenced by their religious upbringing anyway (don't tell them that though).
Look around you. See the clothing we wear? Why? Sex. Our restrooms are separate...sex. Our view of the world is different...again...sex. Male, female, all are enfluenced by...you said it...sex!
Even Proverbs and the rest of the bible is enfluenced by NOT ONLY sex, but the local and current attitudes of the public and leadership of the day!
Local and national laws are sex driven. What is Proverbs 5 really saying? Don't commit adultry! Nothing more. "Drink from your own cistern", Let them be yours alone, never to be shared with strangers (or friends for that matter)". Basically, it has nothing whatsoever to do with "naturism" in and of itself. It has everything to do with how you treat your wife. With love and respect, not treating her as a whore. By going to others, you disrespect your wife. "Why embrace the bosom of another man's wife?" I don't think that needs explaining.
What does need explaining is that naturism is not about "embracing" anyone. It's about living our lives in the nude. It is not about sexual promiscuity, not about seeking others for your sexual gratification.
As long as we understand this, then what the bible says about nudity and sex, as you can see, is totally different than our world, religious or local views.
Our laws do not accurately reflect the bible views. And in fact, even the scriptures lays out before us the striking difference betweens man's view and God's view. 5:21 "For a man's ways are in full view of the Lord, and he examines all his paths." and 14:12 "There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death." and a famous one: Isaiah 55:8 "'For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,' declares the Lord."
Are women affected by these verses in Proverbs? Yes, in that religious views (not necessarilly Christian seeing these are Hebrew verses) teach women from birth these views and apply them where they should not be applied, such as breast feeding in public, and in some extreme cases (and they do exist) breast feeding at all!
We live in a culture today where some women are ashamed of their breasts because they are too small (or too big) yet at the same time, they hide them from others in shame, even after they "repair" them to their liking.
Men build their bodies to their fashionable desires, yet shreak like a little girl when caught nude!
This passage has to do with adultery. As a couple gets older and natural beauty fades somewhat (at least at the surface) some men may be tempted by the beauty of younger women. Proverbs says: don't go there. Love your wife as she was when she was young and beautiful. And indeed beauty is lasting. It just takes may take on some different aspects. And sex indeed gets better with time.
Regarding the issue of naturism, women naturally are reluctant to bare it all. They are afraid of men gazing at them and making them into a sexual object. Also there is fear of not having a body shape as it is supposed to be in out popular culture. Also, there is the dominating issue of privacy. We are taught that certain parts of the body are very, very private. To reveal them is to give out too much of one's person. It is not so much the concept of body shame, it is privacy. Many advocates of naturism tend to overlook this.
I think there is nothing wrong with seeing the naked human body and appreciating its beauty, whether male or female. However, at what point does this appreciation become lust? I suppose that judgment should be apparent to the beholder.
Women have a greater need to feel physically secure than men do. Women are often the weaker vessel physically; they are simply more vulnerable.
I think that when they are with someone they trust, in a setting that is safe from intruders, they enjoy skinnydipping and nude sunbathing as much or more than men do.
I reject the notion that a woman's breasts exist only to pleasure her husband and nurse her baby.
First and foremost, breasts, like all parts of our bodies, glorify God in their beauty and wise design.
Secondly, they exist for her own benefit; they are well-endowed with tactile nerve endings that help a woman experience her world just as our fingertips or other sensitive parts of our body do.
To the splendid comments already made about Proverbs chapter 5, I would only add that I agree that the verses do not teach that breasts must be "for his eyes only".
I accept the notion of "private parts", but it does not logically follow that "what you see is what you get" as Flip Wilson's alter ego "Geraldine" used to say.
Not only does Proverbs 5 tell us not to commit adultery, it offers us a practical mindset that will prevent temptation to adultery:
As age robs us all of our youthful shapeliness, we are urged to continue to see our mate with the eyes of love.
The house I live in may be 50 years old and not as beautiful as it was in 1954, but it is MY house and I love it. Who doesn't love his parents or grandparents because they are old and gray. Of course we continue to love them!
Now let's face it, for men, a shapely young gal in her prime will always turn heads, but her beauty MUST not turn our hearts away from the lady the Lord has bound our soul to.
This has nothing to do with naturism, going naked or anything close. It's about enjoying your wife and not forgetting that. Most wives were enjoyable lovers at one point in their lives. It's about remembering that and not going elsewhere.
Look at these verses in some other versions. The King James is the only one that mentions breasts. Could be because showing breasts was a thing about that time in history. I wonder what the original language actually meant.
My Dear, I did some quick search in "BibleWorks" 6. Now I dont know one word of Hebrew, yet I may boast some fair knowledge of Greek (for reading the LXX / Septuaginta)
I found the female breast (mast*)
- mentioned with feeding the infant as in Job 3 : 12 or Psalm 22 : 9 and Sol 8 : 1
- mentioned metaphorically for a nurturing situation as in Isa 66 : 22
- mentioned as a distinctive female feature
the adolescent is proud of in Sol 8 : 8. 10.
admired by the spouse Sol 4 : 5, 7 : 7,
he wants to reach out for, touch Sol 7 : 7, 8
being translated with "love" Sol 4 : 10 synonymously (?)
being touched in prostitution Ezek 23 : 3, 8
The text in Proverbs is quite odd : The KJV speaks of "breasts", Luther of "love", the Latin Vulgata of "breasts".
Maybe we should consider the passage in Proverbs earnestly : Something nice to look at, something admireable, attractive, - - "belonging" to the spouse, to be or not to be exposed - - and differ between catching a look, seeking a look, having a look, looking with interest, looking affectionately, with pleasure, with desire, with lust. - But that is a problem in all our life.
Thanks for the analysis of the Hebrew text, but it still begs the question, "Why is there a Bible verse that commands a man to enjoy the breasts of his wife"?
When you are a young couple at your peak attractiveness, you don't need a Bible verse to admonish you to do what comes natural.
So why did God inspire Solomon to publish this teaching?The obvious answer is that, given enough time for the natural aging process, her breasts will not be as outwardly beautiful as those of younger women in their prime.
So this has created a dilemma for the honorable middle-aged man married to a middle-aged woman. What does he do with the fact that he will eventually meet an available woman who is younger than his wife with curvier curves, smoother skin, silkier hair, etc..?
Solomon did not merely say avoid adultery. He offered some very practical advice on how to deal with this temptation.
In so many words, he said that the godly man must accept the body of his wife as is. Few bodies are totally devoid of some attractiveness to the opposite sex. We are to turn our attention toward the desireable features of our wives and cherish her body for the sake of the love we have for her.
Beautiful female passersby do not cease to be beautiful on our wedding day. We must follow the wisdom of Solomon as he pleads with us to keep our focus on our wives.
This topic does tie in with nudist thought to some extent. I like the way nudists are socialized to focus on the inner man rather than outward appearance. By whatever means this is achieved, it is an attitude that dovetails very neatly with the Christian man's goal of staying focused on his wife.
