I had a great time and enjoyed History in the making. It
will be even better when Bush gets electioned for 4
MORE YEARS. I especially hope President Bush will
sign your papers when you retire. A strange thing
occurred during President Bushes speech. A small
private plane flew over and the F1/fighter jet came
from Patrick Air Force Base, guided the plane back
around to Merrit Island located air port. After
questioning the man, he claimed that he is a snow bird
moving to Florida for the winter. He had no idea that
he was flying into a no fly zone. A man from my
Church works for the sherriff and says that many
flyier have to check and get clearance before they
fly.
Yet, during this time the President continued to talk
as if it wasn't there and never occurred. They had cool signs too. Firfighters For Bush, Law Inforcement For Bush, Sportsman For Bush, Seniors for Bush, and Women for Bush. Plus the Pins/buttons said Four more years and ect. My favorite Button was, Flush the JOHN's with a picture the John's inside the toilet.
No Flame.... Just my sick humor....
Have a good Sunday!
Sorry Spunky Lady, I'm putting my vote for the John's. I know that puts me in the minority in this group, but you need at least one member on the other side.....
Call be liberal, or whatever you want.....I truly don't believe that the Republicans are all "conservative" nor all Democrats "liberal". Those are just titles the parties like to throw at each other...
Healthcare should be the #1 issue, but Bush just hasn't come up with a good plan.......
Will just have to see what happens on 11/02.....
labels do not always match. In the case of the 2004 presidental race they do. I have experienced Government health care in the military, with the VA and while both living and corresponding overseas. I don't want that curse upon our country. While Kerry claims otherwise his own words describe moving us in that direction.
I am not sure, even yet, how I am voting in the US Senate race.
I have to say that I am really uncomfortable with the discussion of politics. Like Beth, I am not a Bush fan, but I am not a Kerry fan either. We can debate the war, health care, or any other issue till a warm place freezes over and all that will happen is that people will feel alienated, or worse, persecuted. I was a member of another board and when the whole Bush/Kerry thing came up I gave my two cents. The attacks that came back were so violent I left the board. I was told, in pretty clear terms, that if I were not for Bush and a Republican through and through, then I was not a Christian either. Well, I am not a Republican, nor am I a Democrat. I am a follower of Jesus. As such I try to live my life according to what he taught. If that makes me undesirable, then so be it. It seems funny to me that on a board where all the members are supposedly Christian, and naturists, they would condemn someone for having a different point of view. I pray that would not ever happen here.
There is no, and I repeat NO, biblical accounts which mention abortion or birthcontrol! There is many passages in the bible which are cocerned with taking the life of a human being. The dillema is when does the life becomes human. When does person occur? It is interesting that when I see the lobbists from the USA who are so ardently Prolife I also see the same people being so ardently in favour of the death penalty. You can not be prolife for religious reasons and also be pro the death penalty, it is not Biblical and hipocritical!!!!!
The religious right are behaving more and more like the Taleban each day, I have lived with people who have been with the Taliban and i have lived with people from the Christian right so I know what I am talking about!
Intolerence of difference is an evil and we must work towards its eradication from our wourld by being an example. When we alow our selves to become intolerant of others and intemporate in our words, then we destroy any message of Christian love and peace of God, we are acting from Satan not from God!!!
I better sto now as I see Ihave clibed on to one of my soap boxes again and need to shut up before I hurt too many people!!!!
Tevita
There is no doubt that a life is ended during a partial birth abortion. You might want to research partial birth abortion procedures. Comparing that to a criminal getting the death penalty is a stretch.
I am a nurse who has worked in theater when, what we call, late term abortions occured. I do know the issues. I could respond, and in fact I wrote about 100 words on this topic in which I gave my views quite strongly, but i feel that this will upset too many people so I whiped what I wrote and have put this instead.
I think the issue is more that our own emotions are often what we impose on God instead of looking at what God wants. I still remember that during the Fauklins War churches in Britain and churches in Argentena were both praying for victory and both were saying that God was on their side. Is it evidence that as Britain won God was on their side, or could it be that the british forces were better armed and trained?
I worry that we impose our will on God and not do what Jesus did in Gesthemoney when he prayed"but not my will but thine be done!"
Tevita
support killing thousands of innocent people (women, men, children) to hunt down one man?. Jesus said: who uses the sword will die through it. And: Whenever someone hits you on the left cheek, also present him the right one.
It is fun using bible quotes to do politics a never ending battle with no winners left.
We had the same here in Australia a couple weeks ago.
We need to discuss the important things in life. Unfotunately, religion and politics have been made off limit in many places. Unimportant subjects such as sports have risen to the top level of peoples concerns. Even discussions of peoples of sex lives are more acceptable most areas than the truly important things.
As Christians we have responsibility to make informed decisions. Especially in a Christian context any discussion we have must be civil. Personal attacks are out of bounds. But we must also realize that an attack on our position on an issue is not a personal attack on us. Just as an attack on sinful behavior is not an attack on the person, though many people are so identified with their behavior they cannot seperate the two.
I have chosen a party affiliation based on my general philosophy on many issues.
Economics - I am a free market advocate.
Abortion - I am Pro-Life.
Enviroment - I am for responsible use.
Marriage - I believe that marriage must be limited to one man one woman.
I believe in personal responsibility.
As stated in an earlier post, though I lean toward one party but I have to evaluate each race.
There are RINOs, Republican In Name Only and DINOs.
Hey Spunky Lady et al,
I really hate discussing politics, because so much of it is emotional, like the abortion issue. I don't feel that abortion should be part of the political system. I would never have an abortion, but I don't feel I am God and can tell someone else what to do.
Come 11/02, the majority or shall we say the electoral vote will decide who spends the next four years in WAshington, DC. In reality, it doesn't make a big difference as most politicians are the same, and life will go on. We still have the best country to live in, and the most freedom...So I am always greatful to God that I can live in a country and have the right to be a nudist.....
Life would be very boring if we all held the same beliefs on everything. I think that we keep God entertained with all of the bickering that goes on.....
I found a really good article written by Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr. on the book of Revelation... Its similar to a sermon given by John Ortberg when he was at Willow Creek...
I pray everyone has a good week.
My sister-in-law will find out the results of the pathology on the tumor removed on 10/15.
One of my nudist email buddies has been diagnosed with sarcoma in his lungs. Unfortunately, that has a poor outcome....I try to pray for a miracle...Maybe my faith isn't strong enough..
But seriously folks, I grew up in a church (most of you know by now which and what happened) that forbade us from getting involved in politics. So being now 46 (I think, birthday 10/21) I will be voting for the first time in my life. (Church changed positions on this issue) However, I too am neither one way or the other. Never growing up in politics, I am a little ignorant of this process.
Jesus is neither Republican or Democrate. I know, because He is God. God is not an American, or an Englishman, or a German or a French or Chinese. God is not a Yankees fan or a fan of any other team. He is a fan of humanity. People. He died for all of us, no matter how evil, how repugnant, destructive, hateful, vile, or merciless. No matter how nice we think we are, how perfect, how loving, how faithful, He died for us all.
So who do I vote for? Beats me. My wife and I are both leaning towards Kerry....today, but honestly, we can see what others are seeing here: nearly 300 million people in the U.S. and this is the best we can do????
What I would like to see is Christians getting OFF the political band wagon are start praying for GOD to choose our president, then providing the right one, whether Republican, Democrat or Independant! It should NOT make ANY difference which political bent they are, if GOD chooses, then GOD's will be done!!! And that is where Christians should lean....always!
Maybe God will choose a naturist loving President! (See what happens when you let God handle it?)
What man and, to some extent, what first lady makes more difference than the party. To my mind, Kennedy was a good democrat. Then we had a really sorry democrat in Johnson in terms of putting a lot of people on welfare and destroying the family. Then we had a really godly one in Carter who didn't have the savvy to do things other than to negotiate. Then there was the really sorry non-Christian leading the nation in Clinton.
I've got some real reservations about Kerry and certainly have some about his wife.
I don't think anyone leading us to war today will be liked by all. War is nasty stuff. We didn't go to war though. The terrorists did. We just went to where they are rather than let them come here again. The mistake was made in the Iraq case of advertising badly why we went there. We went there because we thought they were terrorist friendly. I'm doubtful the intelligence would have been any better whether a democrat or republican analyzed it at the time.
is for good men to do nothing". Bush speaks of Jesus, Kerry speaks of religion! Bush has a plan that some say is flawed, Kerry will only say he will do it better! (more flawed?) Kerry befriended the communist after he humiliated the brave men who fought and died in Vietnam. Kerry would have the ememy come here to have a war so we can save money on travel to where they are. The Arch Bishop of Colorado recently said that any Catholic in his area who voted for Kerry would have to go to confession before they would be allowed to take communion again because to vote for someone who supported sin would make you a partner in his sin. God said the very same thing! Be careful who you align yourself with.
Bearone
I didn't know the Archbishop could read minds of its parishoners? How does he plan on carrying out that threat....Doesn't sound very Christian-like to me.
There has been a lot of junk written about both candidates. I can understand why Kerry went to Congress after serving in Vietnam. It was horrible over there and some of our men were slaughtering innocent people. Look what happened in Iraq with the prisoners! It just shows that during times of conflict, our men don't always serve us like they should.
Kerry exercised his right to the freedom of speech. After the vets testified, then we finally took a good look at the war and decided we needed to get out. Iraq is a similar situation... Even though we have removed Sadaam from power, the killing continues. Who is going to educate the Muslims to handle their own problems?
I guess I really don't see how Kerry is associated with 'evil' for expressing his beliefs. I don't go around telling everyone that I'm a Christian and 'God' has 'annointed' me to my position in life. George Bush has his head in the clouds. The man will never admit any wrong doing, and he was governor over a state that has the highest number of capitol punishment in the US. They spare no one down there. I don't see what good Bush did in Texas...
I think we need a change, and some leadership with vision. Barak Obama is looking great for Illinois...I can see him running for president some day.
To me Kerry is an opportunist: He condemned Vietman to jump-start his political career, but now calls himself some sort of war hero so that he will look good for president in these times of war.
And anybody who wants a copy, I have a list of quotes from service men who served under, over, or with Kerry who state that what he claims about Vietnam is false, at least as far as where he served.
The media today quoted Kerry as claiming to be a devout Christian, while in the same paragraph he says he is pro-abortion.
Sorry, but whatever the campaign claims, I can't bring myself to vote for anyone of such questionable morals and ethics.
Boyd,
Well said. Isn't there a passage in the Bible that refers to the birth process as the beginning of life? Also, in reference to the turning of the cheek, I thought that if you turned the other cheek, it meant you accepted the challenge from the other person? Not to mean, hit me again.
How do you like Walmart pulling Jon Stewart's book off their shelves just because there is a page with NUDE pictures on it????? I wonder if they have any books on art, especially all the wonderful European artists like Michelango, DaVinci, etc. There was lots of nudity in those paintings....
Sounds hippocritical to me..
Glad you are going to vote. I have voted often since I was 18. Even if my candidate loses, I feel that at least I have put in my two cents worth. After all, it is a priviledge to vote and in many countries, voting does not exist.
Boyd, how can you say: "God is not an American" when America is called: "God's own country"? Has he left the country? Well I have heard, he migrated to Australia ("best place on earth") but still has to wait some 24 month to apply for citizenship, maybe I will invite him for afternoon tea one day
general comment: Paul never refered to a government as a christian government, also Jesus. There is no definite point, that we as christians are supposed to vote for the person showing up in church on sunday. We have to choose those persons most capable to run a 300 mio people country (or enterprise if you want to look at it that way).
If economy is the biggest problem look for the right person to solve the problem. If it is human rights that bother you most pick the right person who will give them back to you. If it is abortion, make your choice according to it.
But always be aware what kind of concept for the society comes with it. We as Germans had to learn this the hard way. Adolf Hitler promised work (time of the great depression) and food for everyone, but he also had a very distinctive idea about the human race and who would be suitable to be part of this new society.
So the older I get the more I am afraid about people who want to make up rules about I have to live my life.
Nobody can prevent abortion by establishing huge penalties, this never worked in the past and will never work in the future. One has to change the people (I can not but God can) so they no longer will see a situation as hopeless that only an abortion appears as an escape. Well I could go on and on.
Thanks God I do not have to vote
Jack
Hi Jack,
I've never been to Australia, but it does seem to be God's country from what I have seen and read. One of these days I'll wander down that way...
To vote or not to vote..
That is the question....
Whether to...........
How can I say, "God is not an American" when America is called: "God's own country"? " I'll tell you why. Because nearly all countries say that!
Just because we say "God's own country" doesn't make it so. Yes, we are Christian in faith, but in China, Christianity is growing faster than any other country, so is South Africa, so does that make them God's countries as well? Did you know that other countries are sending missionaries to America because we need help? It used to be the other way around! Africans accept Christ a whole lot easier than Americans do!
God does not live in a box, or anything physical that keeps him down. God lives in us. People, humanity. Americans do not have anything special over any other country except maybe the "not perfect, but the best we've got" government.
Yes, this country was blessed beyond anyones immagination. But does it make us "God's country" or does it make us more responsible to God? Each country has it's streagnths, God uses it to HIS glory.
I don't put God in a box. I don't limit God's glory to just this country. God is not physical. God can be here AND in Australia, AND in Japan, AND in all countries, just as much as He can be, and is, in you AND in me while in two different countries and time zones!
God is not limited to a country! Yes, God is in America. No he did not leave. But he didn't leave Australia either! He is in each man, woman and child who accepts Him as Lord and King and God.
But He is not an "American" or "Republican" or "Democrat". And just because someone runs for "Independant" doesn't make them any more special either.
God puts in the office who HE wants in office.
Boyd "I am Boyd and I approve of this message" Allen
That's it! I think both of the major candidates are liars. I don't trust either one as far as I could throw a bull elephant. I trust Boyd. I'm writing him in! Maybe we'll get to go nude legally then. Pack your bags Boyd. Can we all come skinny dipping in the white house pool?
Sure! Why not? We'll invite Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw, Peter Jennings and other talking heads to join us in the pool. What can they say then? Should we invite the exPresidents too? That would be fun! We'll invite the world leaders as well.
In fact, we'll have a world conference in the pool, nude! That will get us on the same level. Nobody has a microphone in front of them, nobody has badges of honor on their clothing, nobody has anything to hide. They can move around, swim, soak, and just talk in peace, about anything that is on their minds. Just don't drown each other out!
I was in agreement with this message until you said that
"God puts in office who he wants in office."
We could carry this to every aspect of life. God feeds who He wants fed. God will visit in jail who He wants visited. God will clothe who wants clothed, interesting aspect for a naturist forum.
Ultimately God's will, will be done. I believe He expects His people to be involved in accomplishing hIs will on earth. We do this by staying open to His Spirit and acting upon His revelation.
There are many cases of christians being lead to seek leadership positions in the political arena and loosing by a very small margin and then finding christian friends in their own church had not bothered to vote. Was God's will temorarily thwarted because His body refused to act?
YES, pray about his election. Then vote the way God leads you to vote.
When we start to ask God instead of fighting on a forum, then we will carry out God's will.
Therefore, God puts in office whome He wants. And sometimes, we put someone in office, and pay the price.
God leads and inspires. We must listen. Sure, man starves in some countries. Does this mean that it is God's will? No and yes. No, it is not God's will we allow people to starve. But it is God's will that man has free will. But mans free will must eventually say, "I am free to choose God's will or not, therefore, since I am free to choose, I choose God". Many say, "I choose myself" and we reap the result.
It is hard to say what is God's will all the time. Is it God's will that Little Johnny dies? No, it is God's will that we make discisions. We see finality, God sees eternal life, even for Little Johnny. I know I may sound simplistic, and believe me, I don't want to see suffering. But we complain to God about the horrors of this world, take something we can all relate to, like a hungry person on the streets. Sounds simple, it is a worldwide problem. So why doesn't God do something about it? He did. He sent you.
So when we vote, lets' not "play politics" or "play religion" but put yourself into God's hands, and listen to Him. Then vote in faith. We are never "right". God is always right. Even if we vote for the losing side, we did our best, we glorify God and praise him. Then we must as our Christian duty, pray for our leaders, even (maybe especially) the one we didn't vote for.
If I voted for Bush, and Kerry, wins, I will support Kerry. If I vote for Kerry and Bush wins, then I support Bush. He is our leader, and as it stands for now, he is Kerrys leader too. We are the only country that spends billions of dollars to teach our leaders to be President (a four year course) then fire him. That is our fault, not God's.
I agree that we must support the president with prayer, regardless of who wins.
In your statement you said we must vote and then support the winner. Yes, after prayerful consideration take action. Support the winner but hold them accountable.
Continue working on social issues more by influence than legislation.
a never ending battle with no winners left.