I need some help. Last night, at church, I was listening to two of our women talk about how they hate their bodies. They were talking about wearing shorts and tshirt over their bathing suits, not because of a sense of modesty, but because, "I don't want to gross anyone out." They stated that they felt that the more they covered up, the better it was for everyone else. This surprised me coming from one of the women. I have been present when she breast fed her baby and she was very open about it all.

I know this is something that this and other sites have rehashed over and over again, but I can't help thinking about how these women are in bondage to the oppressive thought that they are somehow, unacceptable. Besides body shame, I so often hear people talk about how their lives are "aweful" and that they would be better off dead. Every moment of every day is a burden and a trial. Each and every part of life seems to them to be something that must be "put up with."

I have looked at the verses about shame and am thinking about using Genesis showing how God thought what he made as good and then Matthew 12.30-32 to show that it is a sin to blaspheme what the Spirit does. What does the Spirit do? Creates life, now and eternal.

Any help or suggestions would be great!

That is a problem, especially for women, but there is another problem I found deeper in what you wrote:

"I so often hear people talk about how their lives are "aweful" and that they would be better off dead. Every moment of every day is a burden and a trial. Each and every part of life seems to them to be something that must be "put up with."

I think that is a deeper problem than the body question. I would be more concerned about this one first.

Why are they "putting up with" life? Exactly what kind of lives are they living in that they are being so enfluenced by the world that one of the symtoms is the body image they have along with other issues of life? Are they not finding joy in Christ? Do they have an impossible idea of what life is about on earth? Are they going through some difficulties in home that they are not letting out to their pastor?

Everyone goes through trials, but "aweful lives" and "burdens and trials" in every moment of their lives is something I would have looked into. God does not put on us anything that we cannot handle. What trials we go through is to help us draw closer to him. How is their prayer life? Are they praying everyday? Are they focusing their lives on Jesus Christ?

There are so many questions here that need to be considered. I think these ladies are trying to live their lives more like the world, not of Christ. Usually their lives are caught up in upper middle class, keeping up with the Jones, concerned with everyday life than on Christ. They are concerned with what they don't have, than what they do have. I know...I am guilty of the same thing. I think we all are.

It's based on the thinking that if we are righteous, then God will bless us with physical blessings. That is not necessarilly true. That was a philosophy of the Old Testament. The New Testament never carried such promises. In fact, the New Testament carried promises of trials and burdens. We must live our lives relied on Christ. Grace should be "sufficient" for us.

I know that is not easy to say, and even harder to live by, it feels frustrating at times. But frustrations come from living our lives independant from God, trying to do it all ourselves. God never intended for us to be perfect on our own, not that we don't try, we do try, but realising that it is God that does this work through us. Are they open to God? Are they like the young Mary who opened herself up to God allowing her body to impregnated by the holy spirit? She risked her life, her dreams, her character, her reputation, her relationships, everything because she is now pregnant and not married. Are we that open to God without question and doubt?

There is a lot more to think about here. A lot more to talk about and this is not an "easy fix". Naturism is a result of all this understanding, not something we can do by ourselves. Yes, naturism can help us understand on the physical level, but I prefer to believe that good naturism is a result of the grace of Jesus Christ.

I would like for all of us to think on this further, and keep asking the questions on this issue.

We would like more information on the women, are they "overweight", poor, rich, middle-class, married, tons of kids, DINKs, marriage problems. Are they spiritually poor, involved in church bible studies? Many women and men get involved in church "services" that they treat it more like a social club than a place of true worship. Sometimes I get frustrated in serving, but my pastor told me that he has gone through the same feelings of frustration, always being asked to do things when he felt strung out already. If they are giving and giving and giving, and feeling they are not being recognized or supported, this may be an issue too.

Before anyone asks, "DINKs" is "Dual Income, No Kids"; another words, more money to spend on selfish pursuits. Often causes unhappiness and restlessness in lives that are not Christ centered.

Nothing wrong with being DINKs, we were that way too before our baby came along, but it causes one to find themselves with more dollars than sense. We were not rich at all, but we had enough to get into enough financial trouble that when a baby did come along, we were too soon broke, too late smart.

We literally had to start over, not only financially, but in spiritual understanding. that is why I recognised the above scenario of the women as something deeper than just body image.

Others here on this board may be going through issues as well, in church, in family, etc. where we are too involved in our physical activities, ignoring our mates, not serving in the family. Our families come first. God first, families second, then our church...and naturism beyond that.

I can get excited about naturism to the point of being distracting at home, but I have settled on that a while back. The first year or two is a little awkward for both the new naturist as well as the family of the naturist, even if they accept it and "understand" it. But later we settle into it and just like Christianity, we get used to it and even take it for granted. And our lives began to settle and then we find frustrations in things we don't need to be getting frustrated in. We push issues that are not necessary, get involved in activities that are counter-productive. We think that "this whatever" will always be there, so I'll go off on other things in life and come back and everything will be alright. Sure, that works in some things, but relationships this does NOT work in. Our relationships with our families, church and especially God is first and must be worked on daily. "Things" are going away. Get used to it. Sometimes they don't go away, they pile up in our basement and collect dust.

Well, you get the point.

God is in the NOW and PRESENT. We live WITH GOD NOW, not worrying about our future, or agonizing the past.

Boyd

Boyd, I don't know if I can cover all you ask or make comment on everything you said, butI will try to sum up.

I agree that the two ladies I overheard, are symptomatic of a much larger problem. I don't mean to suggest that if the would just get naked, their problems would be over. What I mean is that I have been hearing a lot of issues lately.

Some of it is body shame, thinking that they have to be barbie dolls or "gross people out," with their bodies. More than that, people thinking that they have to be perfect, do everything in order to be what God and society think acceptable. the people I am talking about are confessing Christians, have kids and are involved in our church. They may be too involved in our church, but more likely, they are too involved in "doing it all." One couple, in their late forties/early fifties, have a daughter about 11. They take her to so many things they are gone nearly every night of the week to dance lessons, school functions, etc. They are pillars in the church and do a good portion of the work. I hear from them all the time that they are so tired they are "just burned out," and the man says he wishes he could die so it would all be over.

It is not just people in our church, I hear people all the time saying that life is just too much and they never feel as if they measure up. To me, this is balsphemous. It is taking the beautiful gift of God, whether our bodies or our lives and counting them as nothing. It is taking what God said was good and saying it is all trash. I want to teach on the bondage of such thinking and the oppression that is holding these people prisoners.

I am no expert but it is possible that these women are caught up in the worlds view of what a person should look like from all the comercials we see on TV. The image they protray is far from what the average person looks like. They should be at our local Y and see all the shapes that work out or swim. From thin to very wide they all do their thing without being put down in any way.
For those who say they wish it were all over. I feel they are doing too may things. They should concentrate on what Christ would have them do and get away from the fringe things they feel the world says the must do to keep up with the Jones.
We must all set priorities to be in proper relation to Christ and his desire for our lives.
Well I have rambled enough.
Love, WAB

Adding to this, they need to be recognised for their work, but also asked (if not specifically told directly) that they take some time off to spend quality time with their families.

Even our pastor tries to get time off and ask someone to take on a sermon. He has four backup speakers, my wife is one of them, who will do sermons on those days.

I have had several different duties and my first duty is to work myself out of a job. I start projects, then work them and invite others to join me. Eventually someone will say, "Boyd I got this, will you let me handle it from here on?!!" and I have to let go and let them do the work.

I'm still waiting for someone to take over the library! (Hint, Hint)

But I don't allow myself to burn out. Like last weekend, we went on a business trip. I told my pastor and those I work with so they can take any jobs I have and what Gwin has. No problem.

That is the attitude we all have to have. Do our jobs but make sure others are learning and being mentored to take over when the time comes. Each of our jobs (in theory) needs someone to mentor so they can do the work when we are no longer needed or available. Our jobs (including pastors) is to work ourselves out of one job to be available for future work God has for us. Sometimes we do just that and find ourselves not doing anything. My pastor told me that is when you enjoy the rest and be ready when the time comes to do Gods work later.

We cannot be selfish with our work, since it isn't really "Our Work", it is Gods' work. The same for these families who are stretched. They need to mentor others and allow them to be ready to take over, even put their way of doing things into it. I used to set up the coffee table and still do on a pinch, but the ladies told me out of it and they do it the way THEY do it, not the way I do it. And that is the way it is supposed to be.

God works through everyone, not just a few. And if they are keeping others out so they can look good, then they are no longer doing Gods' work. When they mentor others (besides just their kids) they give others opportunity to not only serve the church as a whole, but even serve those that mentor them by giving them some much needed time off!!

And then they can find that special place to shuck 'em!!

Boyd