Why do family and friends object so strongly to the idea of our being naked if they come over to visit?
Several of my family and a couple of our friends know about our "lifestyle", and know full-well that it has nothing to do with sex or immorality, and everything to do with personal preferance. Still, what they've all said is that it's okay for us to be naked as long as they don't have to see it.
Why is it that everybody is so wrapped up in their own comfort level that they can't even consider experiencing something that might make them a little awkward, if just at first, even though they know that to do so would be a wonderfully freeing and gratifying experience for the one that they claim to love so much?
Why is it that we always have to be the ones who make ourselves uncomfortable for them, even in our own homes?
They'll put up with peole who smoke, drink, cuss, speed, spit on the side walk, even... *gasp*, somebody of another denomination, but not with somebody who would rather be naked when and where it's practicle.
Yes, they say they understand, but deep down inside there's still an underlying thought that it isn't right and they can't get past it. All of your other examples have nothing to do with sexuality, so we tend to overlook them. Plus, many people, as nosy as they are in other's business, tend to not want to speak up to strangers. You're family and they feel they can tell you what to do. As I have said many times, if I could shrink down and walk around in people's head's to figure out what they're thinking, I'd be the richest person in the world.
When you figure it out let me know. I face the same issue, except with my own wife (not just visitors). I have repeatedly asked these questions, truly wanting answers but, like you, also feeling frustrated with the situation. As I said in a previous post, I became so turned off by it that I actually lost interest in going nude, at least, around my wife. I don't really enjoy being nude around her now because I know how she feels about it.
Anyway, I do think part of the problem is that they have been conditioned to think a certain way, and so when they see someone nude, they can't help but think the way they've been conditioned to think. In that case, they'd rather avoid the thing (nudity) that triggers their negative thoughts. As I said though, I don't know for sure.
I have tried to relate. Although smoking is bad for you and nudism is good for you, I did relate the situation to smoking. That is, I don't smoke, I don't have any inclination to do so, but I don't mind if others smoke. And at the same time, I do often stay away from smoke-filled areas. In fact, when we visit family in another state, and they're all smoking, I usually go to another room. I don't know how else to relate to it.
That in spite of the lip service to "Nudity != Sex", there is that Hollywood reinforced belief below the surface.
[Slightly off topic...]
My wife and I watched "Off the Map" yesterday. There was a scene in there where Joan Allen, one of the main characters, is gardening naked while the tax man walks up and is stunned by her beauty. At the same time, they show Sam Elliot (the characters husband) naked in the bedroom. The sexual tension in the scene is quite high and continues throughout the movie, even though there is never any hint of inappropriate behaviour between the tax guy and Joan Allen's character.
The redeeming thing about the movie in that respect was the following scene where Sam Elliot walks out to the kitchen to meet the tax man, still naked. The 11 year old daughter was there and there was no real sexual tension shown there.
The line a little later was "We are pretty casual here", the reply... "I noticed".
Honestly, the only people that I've been comfortable enough to be fully nude around is my best friend and her sister. Part of that is that I'm not exactly sure how others will react to my body, even if I think I'm looking as good as I ever have (and hope to keep getting better).
For alot of women, and men too, I think that they can be very insecure in their body image. They think that everyone will see all the flaws with their body that they see when in all reality it's practically microscopic. You are the only person that sees your body 24/7. Everybody else only sees your body (clothed or not) a small percentage of the day. So don't go over your body with a magnifying glass. Other people don't...well unless you're at the dermatologist's.
Thanks Laura,
I think in this case, we are presuming that we are comfortable anywhere, anytime, and in front of all humanity and God. We are as comfortable walking naked down Main street USA as we are in our own bedroom.
So the question would be why should we have to be the ones to dress when company comes over and still have to dress when we visit them too? Either way, we are the ones who have to submit, dress, lie about our beliefs, cover our true light, hide our faith?
There was a while that I was a strict believer of the old testament where we even avoided eating pork and followed the food laws of clean and unclean meats. If I were visiting a family who invited me to dinner, and they had pork, I may choose to not eat it and eat something else, but I did not demand that they not eat it in front of me. They had no problems eating something I knew with all my heart and can point out literally in the bible that it is unclean and should not be eaten.
Yet, no-one can clearly point to the bible and say that going nude is wrong, there is no law directly against it as there is a law against eating unclean meats. But they eat the "whole hog" and avoid nudity. Go figure.
Now I understand that the Old Testament is just that...old. It pointed to Jesus Christ and it was for the Isrealite community. Not the general population of the world. Once Jesus came, he fulfilled the law and prophets (not one will be removed until all is fulfilled, which Jesus did) and we are not under the old law. (Not that the gentiles ever were)
So any laws against nudity, which never existed in the first place, had to be removed as well.
since they never existed in the first place, Old or New Testament, then why do we have to be the ones to explain ourselves and hide our true beliefs?
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
I would hope that most practicing nudists would be comfortable with their bodies. It would be a little ironic if they weren't. However, when I was talking about insecurities, I was referring to those that would be visiting. I think that it is very possible that others that don't do the "nude thing" could have insecurities that they don't want to confront about their bodies. Visiting a friend/relative in a nude environment could make them feel like they have to confront those insecurities. And I think we all know at least one person that prefers to avoid any and all confrontations, even if it is with themselves.
and that is where we need to learn to not just talk the talk, or even walk the walk, but to walk the talk. What we talk so freely about as if we were nude king and queen, we tend to appologize for doing in reality.
Boyd
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
We feel insecure because the "media," aka: television and movie writers, advertising people, commerciala, have conditioned us to believe what we "should" look like and its not real life. Women especially. Guilt is rampant in this country. I'm trying to reverse the trend, but its tough all alone (LOL). I do try to tell women at our resort they look spectacular and remind the women at work that they're always attractive. I guess we just have to condition people the other way, like a dog and a bell. Constant reinforcement will get people to admire themselves.
I suppose we can tell them that clothing offends us and we are uncomfortable with the idea that we are still under the sin and penalty of Adam and Eve when we know we accepted Jesus Christ and are completely forgiven and invited back into the presence of the throne of grace, which the garden of Eden represented.
Therefore, we expect them to be nude when we come to visit them just as much as they expect us to be clothed when they visit us.
(Sorry, that probably didn't help)
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
I am now old enough to wish I was young again. (Young and dumb is more fun!) I was married for 30 years. And I have lived through the early marriage years where sex was an active issue for us and all our friends. I have also been in fundamentaist charismatic churches for over 30 years now. And this what I have seen.
Not a single one of our married couple friends had a problem discussing sex and their relationships. But they would never bring it up. Now when the subject was brought up we all would benefit from what the others had learned. No one was embarased. They just felt it was some how inappropriate.
I have sat in churches for years. People act as though they never sinned and totally ignore issues which are not polite. When someone is honest and says they have some problem then the others relate and become friendly and relax enough to expose what is happening in their lives. All of a sudden I can be me if I know that you are as imperfect as I am.
We as social nudist are going to have to be willing to expose ourselves in total openness when it is unpopular for the rest to become comfortable. It is a forerunner spirit so to speak. Someone has to lead the way and it will not be comfortable. But it will be required of many. Most do not have a problem with nudity. They do have a problem with immoral sex. So when you go to the naturist christian site type it in wrong and get 15 different porn sites it will take a lot to overcome the social stigma of Christian Naturism.
The only problem people have with chaste nudity (IMHO) is that it is outside the norm.
It is because they have been taught from their youth it is wrong to be naked.
They have a "core value" which they never questioned and now it is challenged by a nudist.
It will take a lot to change society. Without the confrontation the Christian Nudist will remain a small percentage of Christian society.
You wrote:
"It is a forerunner spirit so to speak. Someone has to lead the way and it will not be comfortable."
Yes! and:
"It will take a lot to change society. Without the confrontation the Christian Nudist will remain a small percentage of Christian society."
Martin Luthor King sat up late one night praying to God about his future and belief. He has been beaten up, challenged, and of course persecuted to no end. But he was scared, not for his own life, but for the life of his wife and children.
He questioned God if it is right for him to do what he has a passion to do and put his family in danger? God told him to trust God to take care of his family.
Now I don't think this is as important as the racial problem. That is a far cry greater issue that needs to be taken care of right now. But in a way, we are a victim of racial discrimination too: Human discrimination. God created us in HIS image and HIS likeness, and we dare to discriminate against it!
What and how can we help others see this?
Boyd
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
This morning was a contemplative church service where I realized I was droping into self pity. That is only important to this discussion to say that this afternoon I went to the lake. Paddled across it. Came back to Hippie Hollow and spent two hours in the sun with a bunch of other nudist. Three had instraments. And played and sang. It was great. I spoke with a few people since I don't know them yet about the musicans. Apparently they are the Hippie Hollow regulars band who play only when it is warm and sunny. All this is to say how could someone not want to be a nudist. I told God when I was out there that I never wanted to wear clothes again. (A fairly common statement to Him when I am there.) When I saw the women some were models with very nice tans. And others were normal folks. What still amazes me is that it is not a place where sexual arousal occurs. Strange that was the warning I had always heard from the unknowing.
The price tag to bring the rest of the church into this freedom will be high. But right now the porn industry in this country is huge and gets exported to many other areas of the world. Without our clothes the porn stars have no market. With our clothes on they sell to the courious. Jesus did not make us for lust. In fact I don't think he made us for clothes.
How many today would say that the price Martin Luther King paid was worth it? Would we feel the same way? Would I/you be willing to sacrifice myself/yourself to help bring this kind of change? To reduce porn in the world? To improve the self image of many? To honor God in who he is and what he created?
Tough questions for one who has not identified himself yet. But still if there is not a stand there will not be a change. I do beleive that Rev Martin Luther King's dream was worth the price. And I do beleive that he would do it again knowing the results. Would we do the same?
I tried that argument already and it doesn't work or go over very well. My wife says, "that's different," because going nude (publicly) is not "normal" and against the law.
Last night, our youngest son decided to go nude (he usually goes around in only underwear, and never nude). Our oldest son told him to go put some clothes on because he didn't want to see his nudity.
A moment later, my wife asked him why he suddenly likes to go nude. He didn't have an answer at first, but then said he wanted to copy me. I whispered to him (loudly) to ask her why she likes to wear clothes. She said, because it is not normal and against the law. "You can walk out your door that way." I said, so that means you can't even go nude in the privacy of your own home?
I think this is a fine example of our discussion. People don't mind us being nude as long as they do not have to see it...because it is not normal.
Very interesting topic. A couple days ago, my wife and I were playing lumberjack and cutting up a couple redwood trees that had fallen over. Since it was warm enough, I was doing it nude. This was in our back yard, out of sight of anyone, unless they happened to drive in and walked around to the back of the house.
The next day, I was getting ready to go for my walk. My wife had indicated earlier that she'd maybe want to go along. When she saw that I was walking naked, she declined.
This is the way a lot of people are. Some wouldn't even be wanting to work with you and you naked. You can tell the ones who don't mind. My neighbor once came down our driveway with his dog. He just sort of does this to new things, and we were new to the area. As he was going back down the driveway, I saw them and called to Hank. No answer. Again, no answer. So, I called out to the dog. The dog stopped. I went out (naked) and talked to him. (Had mentioned to him once before that I hiked naked, and he seemed to like the idea.) I took him on my hiking trails. When back, we stood talking about half way down and in the middle of my driveway for quite a while.
It's just been ground into people's psyche that naked=sex and that seeing naked people is bad. So many just can't get past this.
I remember that I was watching a performance by a young woman on TV with my Dad when I was a teenager (and not a nudist yet at that point, only occasionally slept naked). At one point she bent over backwards and her costume went up her crack. Both of us sort of grunted when we saw this. TV reveals a lot more now, but it's often done in a sexually suggestive sort of way. 'Twasn't any History or Travel channel stuff back in those days.
I chat from time to time with a Christian nudist from California, and mentioned to him that I have a sign that I put out by the door bell on my front door, for those times that I just don't want to get dressed. He asked for a copy of it, so I emailed it to him. It basically states that you will encounter nudity beyond this door, if simply non sexual nudity offends you please knock, if not, please ring the door bell.
He has laminated the sign and put it next to his front door, and has had a mix of responses, but 2 people that rang the door bell where his adult Sunday School class teacher, who now comes over regularly and joins him in some nude time, and the other has been the Pastor of his church, who also joined him for some nude time this past weekend! He said that this has been the second time that the Pastor has been to his house since he posted the sign, both times he answered the door nude, and this last time after talking to the Pastor for about a half hour, he asked the Pastor if he would like to join him, and get comfortable, and the pastor did just that, and he stayed for about another hour after getting nude! The first visit he offered to get dressed for the Pastor, but the Pastor told him that this was his house, and he should stay dressed the way he wanted to, so he remained nude, although he did say that for the most part he was "hiding" behind a strategicly place counter top.
I'm not yet ready to do this with my Pastor, even though my wife and I are pretty close to he and his wife. My church is just a little to conservative for that! LOL!
So not everyone is against nudity in your own house.
I have thought about putting some sort of a sign on my front door, but I had not considered giving my guest the option to tell me through their actions even before I greet them whether or not they would be accepting of my being naked.
I face the same issue, except with my own wife (not just visitors). I have repeatedly asked these questions, truly wanting answers but, like you, also feeling frustrated with the situation. As I said in a previous post, I became so turned off by it that I actually lost interest in going nude, at least, around my wife. I don't really enjoy being nude around her now because I know how she feels about it.
