After having been gone for 2 weeks, I came back to an active forum. I was glad to see so many posts since I was home last.
I did however, while I was gone, get to meet an internet Christian naturist freind (not very different than most of us here) for dinner in Houston, Tx on Jan 30th. We had a wonderful talk and we are both looking forward to being able to do that again. I have been close to or in the home towns of some of the Texans here, but not much time to visit so this was a special treat.
I know Boyd has been looking for me to come out his way, but so far I-65 is the closest that I've been to him. Don't worry Boyd, I bound to come out there sooner or later. It may be July before it happens, but it will happen eventually.
By the way, I really like the idea for the Texas CNC. Just let me know when and where and I'll try to make it (even if the wife and children are not able to come with me)
On a sader note please keep a naturist freind of mine in your prayers, extended family members have stuck their noises where it didn't belong and "stole" the family naturist pictures, tearing apart the family. The family consisting of two children are now living in three different households. The girl (11)in one house (to protect her from her naturist parents, especally her father), the mother and baby boy in another, and the father in yet another. The father is the only one that is in a nude freindly environment at this time. Both children was/is being raised nude from birth.
Good to hear that you got connected with another naturist friend.
Sorry to hear about your friend. Used to, they had to show physical abuse to children to rip them out of the home. Now, they seem to think that exposure to a naked body is abusing them. The devil is really having a good time in shaming the body God created us in.
But like you said, it did get busy here. One person got "branded" while another is fighting the courts.
We need to keep vigilant where we may think we are standing firm we find ourselves about to fall. (Take heed when you stand lest you fall).
Was this a court discision to split the family apart or was it family members splitting up? I know we are a naturist family, but even then, I am very careful what pictures I take and where and when to push our naturist values. Some families, usually led by a male enfluence, tries to force a family naturist home. It doesn't work well in the long run. Better to allow the clothes to run it's course along with comfortable naturism. I have heard of fathers making the home a strict nudist home only to alienate their children. "Clothes off at the door" rule. It is no different than fathers who makes thier children wear certain clothing styles and make strict, unnecesary house rules that makes them a laughing stock to their peers. The children then rebel and the hard work is lost as well as a potentially close family.
I am not implying this is the case here, but it does concern me when it is so obvious, other families step in to take the children out. Usually, there are other markers there that are added to the mix that gets the attention of the authorities, especially where there are other naturist families in a given area that are not having these problems.
You know them better, and we hope they can get their children back very soon. It would be more important to drop the naturism to get the kids back than it is to keep the family split. In this case, the naturism is more important than the family.
May God bless them with wisdom, courage, faith and love.
And don't worry about whether you get here or not, Daniel; Gwin and I are working on business ideas that will take us on the road soon.
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
If both parents are naturist and have raised the kids as naturists since day 1, then we are seeing government interference to a degree I never imagined possible.
Abandon naturism? Why not force them to abandon Christianity while they are at it! What's the difference?
Just how far would this family have to go in order to please the law?
I suppose they could not take a family trip to a naturist park, could not bathe the children, could not dress them, could not let them run around the house nude before or after their bath. I guess that would require that the government station a guard in the spare bedroom to make sure no ever got naked in the house.
Boyd, you went on to discuss nudist parents who might be alienating their kids with strict rules.
I can see how an "undress at the door rule" might be going too far with kids after a certain age.
If the child is raised nude and while he or she is still preschool age, is undressed at the door consistently and parents do the same, then when the child is older, you don't need to impose such a rule, the child will understand the concept that clothes are for cold weather and when you are in textile society.
In the church summer camp I attended, boys up to 11 years old would play nude in the showers without a care in the world. They had to call us to breakfast before we would get dressed and leave the bathhouse. In our cabins, we dressed and undressed in plain sight of one another as did our adult counselor. We were all "textile" kids, but even at that age there were times and places that nudity was no big deal even among kids who had just met and for whom wearing clothing was the norm.
As children get to the age that they start having textile friends over, here's where a little common sense comes into play. The entire family should get dressed when textile company is on the premises, but I suppose the mom does not need to dress any toddlers if the guests do not object.
If kids go through a body-conscious phase as they approach their teen years, the less said the better. Regular family trips to nudist parks and having nudist friends may tend to prevent that, but if it develops anyway, just continue to set a nude example and respect any newfound need for privacy by your children. After all, Mom and Dad want privacy for certain conversations and for love-making. As our kids reach their teen years, it would be foolish to assume that they would never want private moments.
Television seems to be teaching that nudity is always in a sexual context and some families have opted against having the "one-eyed monster" in their homes. Short of that, I don't know any family that should allow unrestricted access to all that is offered on television. Having a television without rules constitutes child abuse, in my opinion. I have heard television compared to a rude foul-mouthed neighbor who comes in to your house every night and says and does perverse things that totally undermine every noble value you are trying to teach your children. There are some good shows but it should be obvious that children and teens won't always pick the edifying stuff to watch on their own.
Dad liked to roam the house nude, but we lived in a sociable suburban neighborhood and our neighbors and their kids were always dropping in unannounced throughout the day, so Dad voluntarily confined his nudity to late evening after his bath, at an hour when no one ever came knocking. I am not saying that every family has to be that way. You can take stock of how private your house is, how far away the neighbors live and dress accordingly.
I'm going to try and not allow my naivety show forth here, so bear with me.
It seems to me that to have a naturist home and raise children in that home is to have a home where comfort is the norm. To me, that would mean that one day the kids might want to stay dressed while the parents are nude, or one parent is nude and part of the kids are dressed and part of the kids are nude. So I guess I must be missing something when Trailscout said, "I can see how an "undress at the door rule" might be going too far with kids after a certain age. If the child is raised nude and while he or she is still preschool age, is undressed at the door consistently and parents do the same, then when the child is older, you don't need to impose such a rule, the child will understand the concept that clothes are for cold weather and when you are in textile society."
It seems to me that kids learn from our examples. They are naturally curious and naturally enjoy being naked, so if they see their parents naked, there is no need for a "rule" of some kind, is there? If kids do go through a stage of body consciousness, then ignoring it, it seems, may be the wrong approach, especially in a naturist home. Instead of ignoring it, talking with them more about their bodies would be the logical approach.
When all of that is said and done, though, I think the one thing that I question after reading Trailscout's reply to Boyd is that perhaps we're putting the cart before the ox. A Christian example and a way of living that is pleasing to God and a loving family is first and foremost -- the ox. The cart (naturism) can only be attached when that is in place, if we are Christian naturists. For naturism and the freedom of naturisim grows out of our freedom in Christ. We can't allow naturism to be above our faith. It seems to me that once we start setting rules at home like this, then our priorities get skewed.
Sometimes, like around here, we haven't made anyone undress at the door to emphasize an example of being nude at home, I am dismayed at the amount of time Gwin and Megan wear shoes in the house. Gwin does for support because she has a Harrington rod in her back, and her ankles are weak. So if she stands for any leagnth of time, her back and feet will hurt. So she has to wear shoes with special (aka expensive) inserts.
Megan however, does not need them and I have been having to pull them off for her. She jumps around all over (now 3) and "clod-hoppers" hurt when banged around, especially when your nude. (No, not there, at least not yet)
My FIL will put on his clothes when visiting here, including socks and shoes as soon as he gets up. He wears them all day, even when staying in the house. I don't see how he does it. Then I look around and find my MIL doing the same thing. So that is where Gwin got the habit. And she doesn't take notice of the habit or that Megan still has her shoes on in the house. And I see other cultures taking them off at the door (sound familiar?) as a house rule. I can't even make that a rule, let alone total nudity! Not that I want to make nudity a rule. I would rather make the rule that no-one can force others to wear clothes.
People make comments about me going barefoot, even in cool weather (cool to me, freezing to them...65) and I tell them, "Your lucky I'm wearing clothes!" (Seriously, I really do say that!)
Setting the example of relaxed nudity is the best. Gwin does do that and I am sometimes surprised when I come in from somewhere after being gone for a while and find her in the house nude. That seems to brighten up the place for me. During the summer, she is nude a lot more often due to heat. My MIL gets nervous when we are nude outside. Gwin doens't do that here, but I do and I try to let Megan do that. My MIL gets nervous about everything, but she gets downright scared about this. We finally have to tell her to get used to it and quit pushing her fears on us and especially Megan.
After Gwin and I had our talk during our anniversary, I think Gwin will settle down about my yard nudity. She said she will have to work on her nervousness, but she understands where I am going and that I won't do anything that will get us into trouble, at least, not knowingly. After all, if I plan to write a book with my name on it and our pictures in it, she realizes that we will be "exposed" in more ways than my backyard! When I go in the back yard now, not that I can stay for long...cold...but I do go in and out a lot working downstairs in our basement shop, she doesn't worry about it anymore. I think my MIL gave up the "noisey" worrying, not that she doesn't worry privately.
So I think Megan will get a better example this year and more opportunity to be with others nude as well.
So far, when Megan feels comfortable, or should I say, uncomfortable, she will strip off at the house. But when she is cold, she will ask to have something put on.
Smart girl.
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
... 'cause you hit that little sucker right square on the head!!!
I've NEVER thought there was any benefit to ignore a subject as important as sexuality or the realities of the body. Too many parents are too embarassed to say anything to their kids, who are then left to their own devices to discover the information, and they nearly never choose the right source or get the correct information.
In a nudist/naturist home, I don't see how there should ever be any excuse to not discuss all those important things with the children. It's all right in the open physically, and it should also all be right out in the open otherwise. The parents should be discusing all the aspects of their chosen home life with the kids as it comes up. Heck, ALL parents should be doing that, but don't. My own family included.
My parents never said anything to my two brothers or I, and it's just through God's grace that we haven't turned out any worse that we have. Now, my brothers seem to be continuing the same trend with their own kids. My youngest neice is 16, and I don't believe that she's ever been actually taught anything in the proper sense.
My step-daughter also seems to have chosen to wait, for what time I don't know, to say something to her son, who is now 10. By the time she gets around to having "the talk", if she ever does, it will be too late. It needs to be a continuous process of learning from a very young age if we want them to actually have those principles as part of their lives and world-view, not just a single uncomfortable conversation on one day in their lives. That just lets them discount it as easily as they do everything else...
As you said Nancy, we should be Christians first and foremost, and a large part of that is acting responsibly. We have a responsibility to teach our children properly, and that responsibiliity is being too much laid by the wayside, especially by the fathers and other Christian men, who will be held most accountable.
It is when they ask silly questions or make strange observations.
Last night, Megan was sitting on Gwins lap, and Gwin didn't have a shirt on. Megan pointed out one of her observations: "Daddy and I have the same 'ninny'," and she lifted up Gwins breasts and dropped them, and continued, "but you have a problem mommy".
I thought Gwin was going to split she was laughing so hard!
They have no problems talking about body parts and whatever their minds are willing to accept. As long as we tell them the truth.
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
For some reason, you seem to have missed my key point entirely. It might be the limitations of sequential short posts that we can't go back and edit.
I made several points, but the one I wanted to underscore the most was my opinion that rules about nudity in one's home are an indication that we have failed to provide the climate (literally and figuratively) where nudity is comfortable in the home. It should flow from us as naturally as water from a mountain spring.
Physical comfort is a prerequisite for household nudity. In most cases, the young adult male enjoys lower temperatures than the young adult female. Children and the elderly require a warmer temperature for body comfort.
If a family can afford it, we should heat or cool the house to the point that all in the family can be physically comfortable with nudity. I would rather be slightly too warm in order for my family to enjoy physical comfort while nude.
Nancy, I apologize if you thought I am one of those rule makers. When I wrote about undressing children at the door, I was talking about toddlers too young to do so easily themselves. I DO NOT believe in making wives or post-toddler children undress. When children are still young, I do think it is okay to suggest it. My mom did when I was growing and I did not resent her suggestions at all. It's a parent's duty to continue to affirm the goodness of nudity and the child's body verbally and by example. We do not raise our children in a moral vaccuum. We have a lot of negative conditioning to undo from television and our children's playmates and God forbid, from our own baggage from the past.
I also am puzzled why you wrote that I am putting the cart before the horse. I have indicated in other posts that Christ comes first and that naturism is a natural outgrowth of our respect for the body God gave us and our love for the one who created the body.
In the previous thread I was focusing on one aspect of household naturism, but all my remarks should be taken in the broader context of a godly home.
I assure you: as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!
I wasn't told anything about a court being involved, so to my understanding it happens to be the extended family.
From what I've seen of this family at camp, it appears that the home is truely clothing optional. Dress to your comfort level seems to be the rule. This family is often dressed at camp when almost all others are nude, until it gets pretty warm then off goes the clothes.
Good. Then apparently, he and his wife needs to stand up and take their kids back. Maybe move to another state several states over that is not joined by the same interstate hwy and have a lousy airport system nearby.
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
My wife Lea has had a sinus cold for the past few days that has really knocked the wind out of her sails, I would appreciate you helping me pray for her.
