I was reading a post and I came across a reference to Jesus having been arrested, tried, and crucified on Friday and buried just before sundown on Friday and resurrected on Sunday morning. Having read various postings, printings, essays, etc., on this subject many times over the years, (including what I was taught in my trainings as an evangelist, pastor, shepard, teacher, missionary, etc), I am often struck by what must be the most obvious discrepency or, contradiction if you will, between what Jesus and the prophets have said, and what is currently being taught, discussed and expounded upon in this day and age, regarding the death, buriel and resurrection of Jesus.
All those who speak on this subject are all in agreement, with Jesus and the prophets, that Jesus had lain in the tomb for three days and three nights, from the time of his buriel until he rose from the dead and exited the tomb.
Again, these same people who speak on this subject all agree that Jesus was placed into the tomb just before nightfall on a Friday, (because the sabbath was near), and rose again on the morning of the first day following week, which would have been on Sunday.
According to this school of thought, how many days and how many nights did Jesus lay in the tomb?
It's hard to say exactly when Jesus died, we all know that the tomb was found open on Sunday morning.
Here are the clues.
Jesus was found on Sunday morning, the tomb found open on Sunday morning.
Nobody saw Jesus rise or exit the tomb. He could have been alive for hours for all we know. Jesus did not say what time of day.
If 3 days and nights is to be exact (as appose to a "number sign" they often use) then it has to be approximately 72 hours.
72 hours from sunday morning resurrection puts his burial at Thursday morning. His moment of death was the only thing that had a time attached to it and that was around 3pm. But of course, he was buried in the evening, just before sundown.
In the Jewish world, and probably a lot of Eastern thought, sundown marked the next day, not midnight like in the Western world. So the sabbath starts at sundown not midnight.
So they had to put the body in the grave before sundown. So lets make a safe time of 6 pm. (It could have been 6:27 or 5:50 for all we know, but that is getting picky)
Therefore, if he is to be "dead" for three days and nights, that would put his literal return to life (resurrection) at about 3PM Saturday, not sunday. The coming out of the tomb (in the grave 3/3) Saturday evening around 6PM.
They found it open Sunday morning because noone was there to see him come out. Now that would explain the time where he would go to the other place to seek out the souls in hell (according to one gospel and tradition). The guards may have never seen him until just before the women showed up.
what about the Sabbath? He was buried before the sabbath. The Jewish sabbath was and is on Saturday (which the ten commandments mention). But they also have an annual sabbath (several of them) one of them being the first day of unleaved bread or passover sabbath. They have a passover meal a day before this event, but the sabbath starts the next evening after the passover. That would agree with tradition where Jesus ate his passover meal the night before the Sabbath. It was right after the meal he went to the garden, then was arrested and the next day, beaten and crucified, so the very next night after the passover meal was the Passover annual Sabbath. That part agrees.
However, like Christmas, it falls on a date, not a traditional day, like Easter. Easter always falls on a Sunday. But an annual dated celebration may fall on any given day depending on the calendar. Therefore, the "Sabbath" may not necessarilly fall on a Saturday if that sabbath is an annual holy day by date, not "day of week" like the weekly sabbath. But sometimes it does fall on a Saturday. Therefore, it could have been saturday that year. Or it may not have been.
But since MOST people would view the word "sabbath" in this context as a weekly sabbath (I'm surprised they understand its' saturday and not sunday), it would be no surprise if the tradition added Sunday finding of Jesus' resurrection to the rest of the clues.
However, since nobody saw Jesus rise, and the Annual Holy Day Sabbath could have been on a Thursday, it would show an even three days and three nights of prophecy fulfilled.
The death would have been on a Wednesday, the Lords Supper on a Tuesday night. Again, that is part of the annual supper by date, not day.
The women went to the tomb early sunday morning, first mention of a weekday in this whole scenario, would show me this: Sabbath on a Thursday, would put a Friday they could have done this. But they did not because Friday was a preparation day for the weekly sabbath. They had just finnished the Thursday Sabbath of the annual holy day, and preparing for another sabbath the next day. Two sabbaths in a row broken by only one day, would have put extra work on the women to prepare that week. They lost a day watching Jesus being killed. Their work was backed up and had to be taken care of in spite of the loss they had.
Therefore, the earliest (and after three days, obviously, the latest) they could possibly get to the tomb was Sunday morning.
That is my scenario if history proves correct and it will fulfill the 3/3 time slot.
But again, Jesus could have meant that in a "number speak" way of doing things. Eastern thought uses numbers to explain a way of thinking. 1,3,7,10, 12,13,21,40 and 50 all meant something. Thats why you see a lot of prophecy based around those numbers. 7 days, 7 times, 3 times, 12 disciples, 40 days and nights, 50 (pentecost means "count fifty) and the jubilee. The triune God (3).
So the use of 3/3 would not be surprising except that they responded that the temple took over 46 years to build! So they took that number literally, not figuratively.
Tradition! It must be kept! Why? Because the idea of a God who is willing to come down and be one of us and die for us and then is resurrected is far more important than worrying about days and times!
It would be nice if we got that part right, but the important thing is our risen savior!
To change that date would then mean to change Maundy Thursday! Sunday would still be kept because the apostles took time to remember the Sunday resurrection because they did not mention the time or if Jesus told them if he resurrected any other day. Had they believed in the first place, they would have been there at the tomb just before the 72 hours were up to witness this event! But they did not believe and were not there. Maybe it was a good thing they were not there because if they were, the story that circulated that they took Jesus' body and hid it somewhere would have had more credibility than it did.
So the Sunday tradition would still have been kept, just unsure of the Sabbath day. People like to keep things neat and simple so they assign days to certain events, such as, it was Sunday when Jesus rode the donkey into Jerusalem and Monday when he took out the temple exchangers, (could have been Sunday afternoon) Tuesday this, and Wendnesday that...
But whether those days were actually factual, some say yes, some say "oh well, it's just neat tradition to help us focus on the events".
Whatever. Just believe Jesus died (obviously, everyone did eventually) for our sins and was raised AT LEAST WITHIN THREE DAYS give or take a day or so and returned to the Father and sent the holy spirit.
Now one thing is for sure. Jesus did go to the Father on Sunday. that is fact. That is what the waiving of the sheaves (first fruits of the wheat harvest) by the priests was all about. It was always on a Sunday and Pentecost (count fifty) is on a Sunday. Always. Why? It was to foretell Jesus going to the Father after his resurrection. HE is the Firstfruits of all people from that time forward. So that part is correct to the letter and day.
And fifty days later, on pentecost, again, Sunday, is when the holy spirit was sent. So is it no wonder that the Christians chose Sunday to celebrate and got away from the Saturday sabbath routine? Since we are no longer under the law, the Saturday Sabbath is no longer binding, especially for the gentiles who never was given that law in the first place.
What bothers me is when we try to make Sunday a binding sabbath day and use the ten commandments to hold it true when the Ten commandments was about the Saturday sabbath, never Sunday. If we are to follow the ten commandments as our law, then we HAVE to keep the seventh day sabbath, Saturday, and the the first day, Sunday.
We cannot take a law and recreate it to our own traditions. Either we keep the whole law or not. And those laws were based on annual sabbaths and sacrifices, which we do not do either.
What is our law? Jesus. He said "Love God with all your heart, mind, stregnth and soul, and second is like unto it, love your neighbor as yourself". If you keep this commandment, you will have fulfilled the whold law. How? Loving God with "all" would fulfill the first half loving your neighbor the last. Somewhere in the middle, is the sabbath.
I hope this helps.
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
Passover and Passover Sabbath have always occured annually and is based on the Hebrew
Religious Calendar, not the Solar Calendar, and as a result, does not always occur on the
same day of the week. The weekly Sabbath was based on specific day of the week, and as
a result,always occurs on the seventh day of the week, Saturday. Only the weekly sabbath
occurs on the same day of the week because it based on a specific day of the week. Never
the same date/day of the month, as is the case with the Jewish Feasts, (first day of the 3rd month,
14th day of the 4th month, etc).
The Lunar Calendar is only 360 days long and the Solar Calendar is 365.25 days long.
Every six years, another month is added to the Lunar Calendar, (second Adar or leap-year month),
and because the Solar Calendar is 365.25 days long, an extra day is added every fourth year,
(a leap-year).
The Hebrew Religious Calendar is the reckoning of time that the Jews use for all their Feasts.
There are two variations.
The Hebrew Religious Calendar, which starts with the month, Nisan, = (March-April).
And the Hebrew Civil Calendar which starts with the month, Tishri, (or Ethanim), = (September-October).
God based all the Jewish Feasts, (the Feast of Passover, Pentecost, Trumpets, Tabernacles), on the
Hebrew Religious Calendar, not the Hebrew Civil Calendar. All these Feasts were to take place
on a specific day of the month, (annually). Not a specific day of the week. As we all know, the
14th of April, for example, does not always fall on the same day of the week. Only the weekly sabbath
occurs on the same day of the week because it based on a specific day of the week. Never the same
day/date of the month, as is the case with the Jewish Feasts, (first day of the 3rd month, 14th day of the
4th month, etc).
These Feasts which occur annually, follow the Jewish New Year of the Hebrew Religious Calendar,
which always falls on the first New Moon of Nisan, = (March-April).
Unlike our calendar months, which start with the first day of our months, (January, February, etc), the
first day of the month in the Hebrew Religious and Civil Calendar starts around the middle of the month.
So one Jewish month overlaps two months of the Gregorian/Christian Calendar,
It is only during the time of these Feasts that there are 'two' sabbaths.
So, if Jesus was crucified on a Friday day and layed in the tomb by sundown, (which starts the next
day, which would be Saturday), and rose again by sunrise on a Sunday, then Jesus only lay in the
tomb for a total of one night and one day. Not three nights and three days, as both the Prophets and
Jesus said would be the case, (Matthew 12: 38-40). And yes, these three days are a literal three days,
as evidenced by the response of the people regarding the length of time it took to build the temple,
(46 years).
In reply to your off-subject reply, Yes, we are charged to keep God's law. I am sure that
you have read,....
"Keep God first and foremost in everything you think, in everything you say and in everything
you do".
"Love one another with the exact same Love that God loves you".
(This is the first commandment and the second one which is like the first one.
"Love God with all your heart, mind, strength and soul, and second is like unto it,
love your neighbor as yourself").
It is these two commandments upon which hangs 'all' the 'law' and the prophets.
All the law and the prophets is this....
"Treat one another in the exact same manner that God Treats you.
("Due unto others as you would have them do unto you").
Thanks for the additional comments on the annual sabbaths.
It is true we are to keep Gods law, but not necessarilly the laws of Moses.
To love God and our neighbor (as you wrote it without repeating it here) you will not need the ten commandments.
The rest of the law and prophets were fulfilled by Jesus by his life, death and resurrection. The law states that we will die if we break them, but by Jesus' death, we are redeemed from the penalty of the law. Now we live by the law of God, Love. With love and the holy spirit, our hearts are changed and our lives reflect love for our neighbor.
With love, we do not even THINK about stealing, let alone need a law to tell to not steal.
With love, we do not even THINK about coveting, which is a thinking and lusting process which starts the ball rolling to the other sins such as stealing, killing, lying etc.
With love towards God, we do not want any other gods or have a need to make graven images, or to seek out other sources of life. God is our all in all.
Jesus said "I give you a new commanment, that you love one another" and "they will know you are my disciples if you have love one for another".
Yes, Jesus said "I came not to destroy the law and prophets, I came to fulfill them". And fulfill them he did.
His death took the place of our death, therefore the penalty has been paid. We are no longer under the penalty of death. But if we say that we must keep the laws of Moses as written and outlined in the Old Testament, then we are not under Jesus, but under the law. If under the law, then you are correct, we have to keep the WHOLE law, festivals, sabbath (seventh day), annual sabbaths, clean and unclean meats (no pork fellahs) and so on.
I know. I was one of them. I lived my entire life this way until I was nearly 40 before my life changed to a new testament life. I kept the entire holy day spectrum, we had it all figured out. Unleaved bread, ate lots of it. Pork, wouldn't touch it. I'm 47 and just now getting used to eating it. But I still don't go out of my way to eat it. And haven't touched other "unclean" meats to this day, such as crabs, lobsters, etc. Not that they are ceremonially unclean, but because I never developed a taste or desire for them, so never had a need to try it. I just feel there is plenty out there without having to go out of my way to eat what I don't want. From what I hear, lobsters are not really all it's "cracked" up to be!
All those laws, the prophecies, everything we think is our future, is really pointing to Jesus! He fulfilled them all! It's way too much to deal with here, but the more I read about it, the more I see how Jesus really fulfilled the law and prophets!
But to love one another, that is a law I can live with. With that, and the holy spirit of God, we have a whole new life that doesn't revolve around a lot of ceremonial do's and don'ts.
As Paul pointed out with the subject of the law and circumsicion, if you feel you have to circumsize to keep the law and gain righteousness, why don't you just cut the whole thing off and really get righteous! I think he was being a tad sarcastic! But you get the idea. Either keep the WHOLE law of Moses, or simply live under Christ.
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
The Laws of Moses are civil laws not unlike the civil laws we have today.
The Feasts were a shadow of things to come and not part of the "Law of Moses", as a means to recognize the Messiah....
The fulfilling of the whole law covers not only the ten commandments, but also all the civil laws in Moses' day as well as our civil laws in this day and age.
The only way one can fulfill the "Whole Law of God", is by,
"Keeping God first and foremost in everything you think, in everything you say, and in everything you do".
This is the first and greatest commandment of God. (Thou shalt love the lord thy god with all thy heart, soul, strength, mind and spirit.)
The only way one can keep God first and foremost in everything you think, say and do, is by,
"Loving one another with the exact same Love that God Loves you".
This is the second greatest commandment which is like the first, (Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself).
It is upon these two commandments which the "Whole Law and the Prophets hang.
The "Law and the Prophets" is this,
"Treat one another in the exact same manner that God treats you". (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you).
For it is "only" by doing this that one can keep God first and foremost in everything you think, say, and do, for what one does to another, no matter what it is that they do, they do to themselves, and what they do to themselves they have done to God, because God's spirit resides in all, from the first Adam on down even unto this day. All are God's children, but not all of these children do the "Will of God". Only those who do the will of God shall be blessed because these children are fulfilling the whole law in the exact sma manner that Jesus did. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man can come unto the Father except by me". In all of this, (and in all that Jesus taught and did), Jesus was talking about the spirit, not the flesh. Jesus came to show us the way in which to walk. If we walk in this way we shall find the Truth, and in so doing shall have Life, and that more abundently.
"Speak the TRUTH in LOVE, (pure love, that which comes from above), and share that LOVE in that same
TRUTH, and DEEP WITHIN you will find that PEACE which comes from the ETERNAL ABOVE,and
NO ONE, (man, woman, or child) shall ever steal that from you!...ONLY YOU!"
"When you do this, you truly DO keep me FIRST and FOREMOST in everything you think, say, and do!"
The eating and not eating of certain types of food were not part of the Law of Moses. but rather, for the sake of the physical body. Is it not true that what affects the physical body has an influence on the spiritual aspects of the body?
I am sure you have heard this statement, Do not eat the blood of animals because the life resides in the blood. The soul, (the nature, or flesh), of all living creatures resides in the blood. There is also something else that resides in the blood besides the soul, (nature, flesh). Bacteria, viruses, and diseases, (bird flu for one and many others).
Certain types of foods, (meat with the blood of the animals still in it, certain foods cooked in their mothers milk), were not only detrimental to the overall health of the body but also detrimental to the thinking processes. Poor nutrition = poor quality of the thinking process.
This was proven out in Daniel in regards to the the kings meal and the meals of the children of Israel. But all of these dietary habits were for the sake of the body.
Regarding the soul residing in the blood, it is written that "Flesh and Blood" shall not enter in to the Kingdom of God. It is not the physical flesh which is spoken of as not being able to enter into the Kingdom of God, it is the "Nature" of man that will never be able to enter into the Kingdom of God. And this "Nature" of man resides in the blood. It is this "Nature" of man that is rebellious to the "will" of God. And it is this very natures that is spoken of regarding the "Flesh and Blood" of man. Otherwise Jesus would not have been able to enter into the Kingdom of God. For Jesus still has a physical body, "See, touch me, give me something to eat for spirit has not "Flesh and Bone", as you see I have".
Not eating certain foods may or may not have been part of the Law, I don't know, but in the New Testament it certainly was not only a health concern that drove Paul to write concerning meat that had been sacrificed to other "gods".
That was definately a spiritual problem that Paul was trying to protect against, and not a physical. A mature Christian could eat that meat with a clear conscience, because he/she knew there was no other god. An immature Christian though, might not be so sure, and to eat of it him/her self, or see another do the same, could cause them to doubt in God alone- and THAT was the reason for the prohibition on eating meat sacrificed to idols. It was not to be done around those who might "stumble" in their faith.
Granted, the heart of the situation is a spiritual problem- how we should act in love towards those who may not be as spiritually mature as we are in certain truths, but several specific examples given in scripture use food to describe the problem.
Romans 14: 20-23 "Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin."
This is specifically the situation that I mentioned, where the less mature Christians were having a problem because of more mature Christians eating meat that had been sacrificed to idols in pagan temples. The more mature Christians could eat in faith, because they knew there was no other god besides God, but those who were not so faithful were sinning by eating that very same meat.
Even though it was not inherently sinful for the more mature Christians to eat that meat, it became sinful when they did so in front of a person whose faith was not strong enough for them to eat it with a clear conscience.
It's kind of a "Hey, if he can do it, so can I" sort of thing, but before the person is mature enough to do what they see somebody else doing without sinning.
This same sort of reasoning is why we should be careful with whom we share certain aspects of our "lifestyle" with. Some people can handle it with no problem, but other people who don't have their heads screwed on straight would here us say "I'm a nudist!" and think to themselves "Hey, I can do that, too." But what they're thinking, because of immaturity or lack of understanding or whatever, is sexual. We, intentinally or not, would be a cause of them delving into sexual sin.
So, in a longer answer to your question- Yes, Paul was specifically discussing literal, physical meat, but he was doing it to address a spiritual problem.
So then, Paul was really talking about spiritual meat, using physical meat as an example in the hopes that others would understand. This is same thing Jesus did in all of his teachings. For Jesus spoke of the spiritual things using physical things as an example. The parables, being born again, etc.
Paul sums up his discourse with this, whatever someone determines to be sin, to that person, and to that person alone, it is sin, and woe to that person who deems such, to partake of such.
One lunar year is thirteen cycles of ABOUT 28 days each. The ancient mariners and early Arabs had descerned many more moon phases than are presently recognized. (See Gibbons and Donne for contrasting yet agreeing views among others.)That is why some months have two full (the blue) moons. The Sun and Earth (created by God) do not observe hours and their multiples (created by men). A Roman year is 365 and 1/4 days because it is not syncronised with God's universe. A lunar year is also ABOUT 365 1/4 days as we recon days. The difference is there is no lunar leap year...
If you really want proofs outside the Bible their are many contempory (sometimes agreeing) histories recording the styles of people before and after the Christian era. The Church is not the only thing that thrives in supression. People commonly work and worked naked when the price of clothing was too dear. Miners worked naked until the very late 19th and early 20th centuries. Oil field workers also worked naked in many places until very recently. Fishermen, huntsmen, husbandman, oarsmen, vine dressers, well diggers are but a few of the many profession depicted naked along with all children, women (sometimes all family members) at home and many slaves in all histories and in litterature (read Tom Sayer lately?). North American Indian Groops before European contact often lived naked except for ceremonial dress. A headress made of six hundred or more feather shafts at no more than ten per bird is far too expenive an item to wear except for very special occaissions. I recently observed a plumber working on a city fount in his underpants. What do you suppose he would have been wearing before that garment was invented?
Of course Adam and Eve had covered their own nakedness (Shame of disobedience) from God their creater. This was of course perversion and offensive to God. God then made clothing of animal skin for them not Him. The implied shedding of blood then is the type for the Lamb to come, isn't it?
If I remember correctly, to the people of Jesus' time the day started at dawn, not at midnight like we consider now.
Jesus being buried before sundown on Friday, laying in the tomb all day Saturday, and coming out on Sunday morning after dawn would comprise at least portions of three days.
I don't believe that I've ever seen it stated that it had to be three complete days, or 72 hours.
Actually, Kevin, you have it reversed. Back in Jesus' day, the day started, and still does, start at sundown in the land of Israel. Not sunrise. Nor midnight as you stated correctly. ("And the evening and the morning were the first day").
I think you will find the reference to three days and three nights, stated very clearly
in Matthew 12: 38-40.
My dad came over last night (mom, too), and the four of us had a talk about the "where do the three days come from?" thing, and when the Jewish people started their days.
I learned a lot, and I also managed to come up with several more questions that I'll have to dig into.
But, you are right- I did have it backwards. The new day started at sundown, not dawn. They did apparently count the hours of the day starting at dawn, though.
Anyway, my dad brought up the same scripture that you did, in Matthew, quoting Jesus as stating that He would be in the grave three days and three nights. No way that it could have been just partial days- which also seems to indicate that it couldn't have been from Friday night to Sunday morning.
We looked a little into verses concerning the Passover and the Sabbath, very similar to what you gave in more detail in a post higher up, and came to the idea that the Passover Sabbath (special Sabbath), and the regular end-of-the-week Sabbath must have fallen on concurrent days. The details that you gave about the calenders seems to agree that this might at least have been possible. Given everything, it seems that Jesus may have actually been crucified on a Thursday. And that begs the question- if somebody as lacking in knowledge as I am can find these things, why has the church continues to insist that it was Friday to Sunday? Is it just because of tradition?
Thanks for all the info you gave. It's very helpful.
"if somebody as lacking in knowledge as I am can find these things, why has the church continues to insist that it was Friday to Sunday? Is it just because of tradition?"
It is because most churches, (and peoples), do not want to be shown that they might be incorrect in their teachings and understandings.
The churces, becaue it would mean that they are infallable, and as a result, would tend to lose control of their power over others.
The peoples, because they are afraid of having their little bubbles burst. A prime example of this is a belief of a "Pre-tribulation rapture". This can be proven to be a false teaching by reading what Jesus had to say, (the parable of the fishes, Matthew 13:47-53, the parable of the wheat and tares, Matthew 13:24-30, parrable of the wheat and tares explained here, Matthew 13:36-43, as well Matthew 24:31-46).
