Boyd wrote:
Sigurd, be careful with the tools you are using against us. You are poking your own eyes out.
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I do no use any "tools"!. My messages are my impressions about any texts or any opinions.
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Laura wrote:
He commanded us to "love your neighbor as yourself" and "love the LORD your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength."
Yes ! And it is a basic law for the mankind's life.
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Laura wrote:I do know, however, that my God does not punish His children for the sins of their earthly fathers.
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Really? Answer, please, a question.
In the modern world there are wars. For example a war of the US army against Iraq's inhabitants..
During wars there are deaths of infants by military bombardments of human cities... During wars there are an appearance of invalids between infants by military bombardments..
Infants are innocent because they are infants.
Why the God did allow a death for the innocent infants? It was possible for the God to save the infants.
But the God did not save the infants.
If the God does not punish His children for the sins of their earthly fathers then Why the God does not want to save the innocent infants? Why the God did not want to save the infants?
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Schuyler Smith wrote:
Sigurd, am I to understand you to be saying that nudity is sin? That nudity is not of God?
I will be waiting for your answers to my questions.
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Nudity is not a sin. Nudity is of God.
But it is a sin if male person show his nakedness for female persons.
But it is a sin if female person show her nakedness for male persons.
Why? Because the God did create clothes with a goal to protect humans from any temptations by a nudity of opposite sex.. . The God did decide any opposite sex's nudity is relations of a husband and his wife only.
Clothes are a creation of the God. Clothes are the God's gift for a mankind.
And a mankind uses the gift.
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Boyd wrote:
BA: First of all, I have not forgotten about the devil or his evil spirits.
You just blamed the "Clothed" person if another person feels tempted??? So if someone feels tempted and lusts after you, even if you did not know it, then you are a witch? Is that what you said?
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I am not a witch therefore nobody will be feel a sense of a temptation or a lust after me.
If clothed human is not a witch then nobody will be feel a sense of a temptation and a lust after
the clothed human.
But if someone feels tempted and lusts after a clothed person then the clothed person is a witch.
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Boyd wrote:
"but the olympics ORIGINALLY did their compitition in the NUDE! "
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The ancient Olympic games it was male games without women.
During the firsts antique Olympic games , the male olympics did their competition in clothes.(during a period 772-720 BC).
A tradition of nude male competitions did establish since the 15 th Olympic games.(since 720 BC).
The olympics ORIGINALLY did their competition in CLOTHES.
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Boyd wrote:
The IOC has no opinion of naturism one way or the other. Their opinion of naturism is NOT my opinon . Why would I care what thier rules are?
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Do not care what the IOC 's rules are. Because the IOC's rules are not rules for you.
The IOC is a world's respectable organization and the IOC's rules are rules for respectable persons only. ..
The IOC (the International Olympic Committee) is a government of the world's sport.
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Boyd wrote: "Daniels point (which you missed) was that if you insist that being "diseased" is a result of sin and his sin is going nude, then why does going nude cause the skin condition to clear up and wearing clothes causes it to get worse?"
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Because the God does prohibit for Daniel to wear ANY clothes by the disease.
Because the God does recommend for Daniel to be nude during EVERYTIMES by the disease.
It is a great punishment by the God..
Because it means the God does prohibit for Daniel a clothed life in any human cities, towns, villages are settlements of clothed persons.. It is possible The God recommends to Daniel a life of a nude hermit in a cave or a forest by the disease for Daniel..
Clothes are God's gift for a mankind. (Bible, Genesis)
If wearing clothes causes a skin to get worse, then it means the God cursed the person...
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Boyd wrote:
The way you put it, the person who did the killing were God's helpers and they are innocent because they were doing the will of God.
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No, it is your error. Any killers are the Devil's servants.
But it was possible for the God to save a person from the Devil's killers.
If the God did not save a person, then it means the God did not want to save the person.. But in any case a killer's soul will be in hell.
Killers are any murderers of any human persons, animals, fishes ,trees etc etc.
Between killers there are human murderers of human persons, fishers, butchers,military persons,
lumbermen, hunters etc etc etc
Of course, in future life any killer's soul will be in hell's flame.
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BA: If that is so, then where is God in this? Is one of the treatments in this medical book about salvation and grace from God?
Or is this book only for those who are no longer under His grace? If this book is for people no longer under his grace and unworthy (as you put it) of his grace, then why are YOU using it for yourself?
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The God here: A health is God 's grace. Also any medicines are any matter and
the God is a creator of the matter, an antimatter, any chemical elements etc
Persons are under His grace the persons are healthy persons.
And any medical books are medical advices and treatments for persons are not under His grace..
If you 'll be healthy by medical treatments then it means the God does forgive you.
If you'll be not healthy by medical treatments then it means the God does not want to forgive you.
I use the medical book with a goal to give a help for any sinners are punished by the God.
Why do you think I am using the book for myself?
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Boyd wrote:
I am married, 47 yo, two children (one at home) both girls.
Daniel is married, with children.
MOST here are married and with children, one or two do not have children. About two or three singles visit this board.
What is strange is that YOU gave us no information about yourself!
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I am 28 years old.
I am a Christian person and therefore I fullfill the Bible's recommendations for Christians...
About a marital status the Bible wrote to be unmarried it is better than to be married.
Therefore I prefer to be unmarried because a Christian church has an opinion that the way is direct way to a paradise for future life. And all priests and superior priests of the Roman-Catholic church, the Russian Orthodoxal church and others major Christian churches of the world they use the way because the way is the best way.. ...
Of course, the devil can tempt male persons by sexual desires towards to female persons.
The Devil uses women with a goal to tempt male persons.
But a modern science knows any ways how to protect yourself from the Devil's way of temptation..
A science knows Any "Viagras" with a goal to increase any sexual desires but a science knows
any "anti-Viagras"with a goal to decrease any sexual desires towards to a level of absence of sexual desires..
Using the "anti-Viagras" it is easy to drop any sexual desires to the nil level, the level of absence of any sexual desress. A life without any sexual desires it is the best life for Christians...
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Boyd wrote: " MAYBE?? You don't know? "
I did use a word "maybe" because there are one of 2 variants.
1) The God did decide to punish sinners of any city..
2) The Devil did decide to have a devilish amusement by a destruction of any city with hurricanes, earthquakes etc
The God did see the situation. It was possible for the God to save the city from the Devil's action.
But the God did not want to save the city.
You can see , in ANY CASES it was possible for the God to save persons..
If the God did not save a city then it means the God did not want to save the sity.
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Well, you are right when you said that if God decided to not save a city or person, then he decided to not save it. But it has nothing to do with whether they "deserved" punishment or not.
You wrote:
"Really? Answer, please, a question.
In the modern world there are wars. For example a war of the US army against Iraq's inhabitants..
During wars there are deaths of infants by military bombardments of human cities... During wars there are an appearance of invalids between infants by military bombardments..
Infants are innocent because they are infants.
Why the God did allow a death for the innocent infants? It was possible for the God to save the infants.
But the God did not save the infants.
If the God does not punish His children for the sins of their earthly fathers then Why the God does not want to save the innocent infants? Why the God did not want to save the infants?"
God said that he gave us choices. Life and death. He adviced us to choose life so we may live. Did those children decide to choose death? Is God punishing babies because of war?
God did not say that the innocent will be protected from death. Early church members of the first two centuries were put to death by fire, torture, lions, on the cross, etc, and were they being punished by God? Why is war bad? Because it kills people!!!
You wrote: "Persons are under His grace the persons are healthy persons."
Paul had a problem he called "a thorn in my side" where he asked God to heal him. But God chose not to heal him. Is Paul under a curse? Is he not a Christian? Another was advised to drink wine for his stomachs sake, was he sinning by drinking wine? Was he punished with a stomach problem? Is he too not a Christian?
I think not. We are human and are subject to human flaws, mistakes and of course, death and taxes. We can catch diseases. We can be killed on the highway just as easily as anyone else. It's by Gods grace we are alive and by Gods grace we are saved.
Apparently, where you are falling short is that you think it is by our works and not by grace we are saved.
you even said that the rules of the world are better than God's.
How?
You wrote:
"Do not care what the IOC 's rules are. Because the IOC's rules are not rules for you."
Why do you say this?
"The IOC is a world's respectable organization and the IOC's rules are rules for respectable persons only. .."
Are you saying that only respectable people are following the IOC's rules and that the IOC is over God and you prefer the worlds "respectable" people over God's created people? Are you saying that the world is the we follow for respect? Are we trusting the worlds idea of respect or God's idea? Do we look to man or to God?
"The IOC (the International Olympic Committee) is a government of the world's sport."
EXACTLY! IT's the WORLD's government, not Gods!
and you wrote:
"Of course, the devil can tempt male persons by sexual desires towards to female persons.
The Devil uses women with a goal to tempt male persons.
But a modern science knows any ways how to protect yourself from the Devil's way of temptation.."
Do you know what you just said? Science can overcome the devil! No they cannot! Only Jesus Christ overcame the devil and we are under Christ, not science! Yes, we take advantage of the understanding of science and we find the wonders of God's creation, but the modern science does not know how to protect you from the devils way!
You wrote:
"Of course, the devil can tempt male persons..." Nice of you to give the devil a little credit once in a while.
Don't misunderstand us. We are not saying that God never punishes people. God loves his children and he would rather they end up in the hospital thinking about their life than ending up in hell. But not every bump and bruise or sickness or disaster is God's punishment. Even Jesus told us that the tower in Shilom that fell on the people was not a punishment but an accident that killed people that were no more a sinner than anyone else. Accidents happen!
And your idea that God wants Daniel to live as a hermit is so ludicrous that I am seriously believing you are a nut case....without the nut inside.
I am presuming you are Catholic (of one version or the other).
Keep in mind, Pope John Paul said that the naked human body is not evil and of itself is not a bad thing.
"Sexual modesty cannot then in any simple way be identified with the use of clothing, nor shamelessness with the absence of clothing and total or partial nakedness. There are circumstances in which total nakedness is not immodest....Nakedness as such is not to be equated with physical shamelessness. Immodesty is only present when nakedness plays a negative role with regard to the value of the person...The human body is not in itself shameful, nor for the same reasons are sensual reactions, and human sensuality in general.
Pope John-Paul II
Unless of course you think that the Pope dying of old age and was sick when he died was a punishment by God because the Pope was a sinner that needs to go to hell!
I'm glad you are not God, you would have had humanity destroyed long ago!
And don't you ever think that just because you are relatively healthy (and single) that you are someone special under Gods grace and you have the authority to say one is a Christian and the other is not! That is dangerous thinking! It raises your self promotion quota and puts you where Lucifer was when he fell.
You wrote:
"I am a Christian person and therefore I fullfill the Bible's recommendations for Christians..."
And I am a Christian too....therefore....[you fill in the rest]
I have to admit that I didn't read the whole post. I had to stop at the part about anybody who is clothed and causes lust is a witch.
So, are you saying that all the women that other men and women lust after, the models and actresses on TV and in print, all the women on the beaches of the world, all the girls in school being stared at by hormone-addled boys... ALL those people are witches?!?
Let's see some proof of this. I find it hard to believe that there are so many witches roaming around pretending to be house-wives, school-girls, and the women we work with. It's ridiculous.
You seem to be stating your opinions, unsupported by true, in-depth Biblical study, as fact, and unfotrtunately, you are quite wrong in alot of what you have to say. So, let's see some Bioblical referances as to this witch subject.
I'll be waiting with great interest for your reply.
"Do not care what the IOC 's rules are. Because the IOC's rules are not rules for you.
The IOC is a world's respectable organization and the IOC's rules are rules for respectable persons only. .."
Have we resorted to name calling now? Am I correct in taking this statement that you made in you post to say that we are not respectable people?
As Christians we are saved by Grace through our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His death and resurection. I am a sinner, yes. We all are. But, I was created in the image of God Himself, and in no way am I, or any other person who happens to ever come to this web-site, not a respectable person.
You have been answered in what I would call a very polite manner, considering some of the statements that you have made, manmy of which are nearly accusations. I would ask that you be a little more careful about the people who frequent this site, of which you are a GUEST.
"save a person, then it means the God did not want to save the person.. But in any case a killer's soul will be in hell.
Killers are any murderers of any human persons, animals, fishes ,trees etc etc.
Between killers there are human murderers of human persons, fishers, butchers,military persons, lumbermen, hunters etc etc etc"
So, all the Israelite soldiers throughout the Old Testament, the ones directed by God to wipe out every living person- man, woman, and child, in the Promised Land- their souls will be in hell?
What about David, who wasn't allowed to build God's Temple because he was a man of war, but was called by God Himself a man after God's own heart- his soul is in hell?
Noah had to cut down quite a few trees to build the Ark that God commanded him to build. Cutting down those trees sent him to hell?
What about Peter and the other disciples? If my memory serves me correctly they were fishermen. Going to hell, right?
I don't think so.
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"to be unmarried because a Christian church has an opinion that the way is direct way to a paradise for future life. And all priests and superior priests of the Roman-Catholic church, the Russian Orthodoxal church and others major Christian churches of the world they use the way because the way is the best way... "
Yeah, in the States we've seen the results of the "best way". I have nothing against Catholics, but it seems to me that celebacy in the Catholic Church has spawned a huge problem with priests and their sexual lusts- usually towards young boys.
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"A life without any sexual desires it is the best life for Christians..."
God gave us our sexual drive. We were told to be fruitful and MULTIPLY, remember? That's meant to be a pleasurable experience, and that would require that there be some desire between the people, otherwise it would be just another unwanted task to get over with.
Our sexual drive is a gift, and like any other gift it can be used correctly or incorrectly. There is such a thing as good, Godly desire between a man and a woman. Likewise there is a ungodly sort of desire. Which we choose to harbor is exactly that- a CHOICE.
As a married man, I have to say that it's unfotrtunate that you have such a negative outlook on the gifts God has presented for you. I do know that Paul said that it is better for a man to remain unmarried like he was, but that dosn't mean that the alternative is a bad thing.
The union between husband and wife- in body, mind and spirit, is unlike anything else that you will ever experience. It is also the model that Christ Himself used to describe His relationship with His church.
When one lles, they steal, when they steal, they cheat, and in so doing have commited murder five times over.
When one lies to another, they steal that trust of another, and in so doing, cheat themselves out of their loyalty.
Truth has been murdered.
Honesty has been murdered.
Integrity has been murdered.
The spirit of the other has been murdered.
The one who lied has murdered their own spirit.
The same can be said of one who has hatred towards another without just cause. Such a one is quilty of murder as well.
And the list does go on.
I thank God for his forgiveness of sin, and that I was humble enough to accept his forgiveness of all my sin, and that I can go on and sin no more. It is one thing to acknowledge that one is in need of forgiveness of their sins, but another thing entirely to accept that forgiveness of sin. For without the acceptance of God's forgiveness of sin, one can never hope to be pardoned of any sin. This is the unforgiveable sin.
Thats why Jesus said, "If you have broken one law, you have broken them all" and "If you have done it unto the least of the bretheren, you have done it unto me"
You say that if someone dies it means they sinned and God chose not to save them? Well everyone sins. But God loves us, and instead of striking us down he is going to give us a chance to make amends for our sins and to repent of them. That was the whole purpose of Christ's sacrifice.
You talk about innocents dying, and it being God's punishment, hence the sins of the fathers on the children. Okay, how about Peter? He was martyred. Was God punishing Peter. Did Peter do something to tick God off? What about Paul. He was supposedely beheaded by Nero. What about all the other Saints and Apostles. Granted they weren't perfect, but they had faith in Christ. Was Christ merely punishing all of them?
You also mention God punishing someone by not curing a disease. Disease should not be blamed on God. I would hope that we would move past a notion that was popular during the Middle Ages. It's not fair to blame all of the woes on God. Good people will sometimes suffer, whereas sometimes bad people will not. However in the end, Jesus Christ will reward those who have repented and strived to do good in his name, whereas those who are evil will ultimatly punish themselves.
Sigurd, I find your conclusions extreamly confusing.
If I understand your posts right you are saying that because I have a rare form of psoriasis, (one of which you are not likely to find in medical book, unless of course you pay the money needed for what is reserved for specialists. The form of which I ENJOY [it's a matter of choice, that's why it's not a disease] is not found within general desriptions as you have found.) And psoriasis is punishment, and naturism is the sin for which I'm being punished.
If that is the case, then I was condemned when I went through puberty, about the same time that I was filled with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues as you will find throughout the New Testament, nearly two decades before my initial involvement in social nudity. (There wasn't even any family nudity in the family I was raised up in!) So, if I understand you then, I was punished for something that I had not done or even conceived of at the time?
Is recieving the infilling also a punishment from God? If so, let Him punish me some more!!!!
Now I do enjoy social nudity, but I am a naturist BECAUSE of psoriasis, NOT the other way around, as you have accused.
I can only pray that your eye's will be opened to what the Lord said and meant in John 9:3 "Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents; but that the work of God should be manifest in him." This verse is talking about a man that was born blind, and the disciples thought as you do, that his blindness was because of sin. But noticed that the Lord said his blindness had nothing to do with sin, but everything to do with God being made manifest in him. WHAT AN HONOR!! Oh, to be used of God in such a way. Is this the only man in history to have such a badge of honor? Could it be, just suppose for a moment, could it be, that the Lord desires the same through me? How about a cancer patent that witnesses to her doctors and nurses about the goodness of the Lord moments before she is ussured before the Lord Almighty Himself? What about a child born which only lives a few days, but because of the child's parent's faith, people are brought to repentence?
I could go on and on with examples, but according to my understanding of your posts these are all condemned to death and hell because of some kind of sin. Having been under Biblical teaching my whole life as well as studing Scripture myself, I can say without a doubt the the Bible does NOT share you perspective, and thank God because we would all be doomed to Hell, including you.
There is only one thing that will send you to Hell. Yourself. Leaving this present world without trusting in the Lord Christ Jesus with all of you soul, mind, and stregth. Everything else is just temporary inconviences while we are on our way to our reward, because of our faith.
God has promised that the son, (children), shall not bear the iniquity of the father, (parents), nor shall the father, (parents), bear the iniquity of the son, (children). Everyone will answer for their own deeds, good or bad.....Ezekial 18:20
What of the woman caught in adultery? What was the action and behavior of Jesus regarding this woman? What happened after Jesus bent down and started writing upon the ground? All her accusers having been convicted by their own conscience left one by one until none remained except for Jesus and the woman.
What was the next thing Jesus did? He asked the woman where her accusers were, ad she old Jesus that they had all left and that there was none left to condemn her. What did Jesus do then? He said, "Neither do I accuse you. Your sins are forgiven, now go and sin no more. John 8:1-11
Accusing others of being witches, harlots, prostitutes, liars, thieves, deceivers, and the list goes on.
You have yourself accused others by your own judgement against yourself, which is proof positive that you too have judged yourself and found yourself lacking. You have weighed yourself in the balances and have proven yourself to be just as guilty as the ones whom you have accused.
One who accuses another has become Judge, Jury and Excutioner. There is only One Judge, Jury and Executioner, the Lord Jesus, the Christ, the anointed one.
Hear the word of the Lord. "Only the accuser points the finger at another, but the accuser shall be judged for the accuser is not without sin".
You keep writing these looong, rambling posts arguing with us and nit picking about a lifestyle you don't like and don't believe in, yet you keep coming back. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Obviously, we are not going to convert you and you are not going to change us. This site is like one of my churches where I go to be renewed and refreshed and you just drone on and on about little specific points. I can't even get through your posts because they're so mindless. I've never said this to anyone about going to church, but you just need to leave. Even Paul said there are some people you just have to let go of and cut them loose. You're one of those people. If you had an interest, wanted information and had legitimate questions, that would be acceptable, but you came here just to start a fight. Say goodbye and don't let the door hit you in the rear.
Ok, Sigurd...here is my reply to your closed-mindedness:
War happens because God created us to have free will. We have free will to choose the "straight and narrow" or any other path that is available. This free will also includes our activities. Wars happen because one country (or dictator) chooses to do things that another country or countries feel is inappropriate. Just because you are in danger of dying doesn't mean that God will make a decision of whether or not he wants to save you, personally. Look at the example of Job. God gave Satan permission to tempt and try him and still Job persisted in his faith. Satan killed Job's entire family, stripped him of his properties and still Job was faithful. God did not let Job's family die because he didn't like them. God agreed with Satan that he could dish out as much hardship as possible to Job, without killing him, and Job would still be a faithful servant.
Just because we view something that has happened as "bad" doesn't mean that the end result will be bad. God can see, and shape, the big picture - we, as humans, cannot.
As far as nudity goes, no where in the Bible does it speak of not showing/seeing nakedness between men and women. It does speak of modesty, which is a completely different principle, and is very much practiced by the members of this board. At any given time, we may be nude, but none of us are going to invade your personal space and make you notice that we are in the nude - that is modesty.
I am glad that you finally decided to reveal a little more information about yourself. Whether or not you decide to marry a woman is your choice. However, God himself said that it is not good for man to be alone!
Also, sexual desires are not a curse, but a gift from God! You must manage them and put them to work in the correct conditions in which they were meant to be used (within marriage). When sexual desires are acted upon outside the institution for which they were created, bad consequences may occur (although they are not necessarily punishments from God!) such as emotional strife, rumors, pregnancy, sexually transmitted disease, as well as many other unforseen circumstances.
With regard to the discussion on witches, if anyone that sparks a temptation of any kind within another is to be called a witch, then I believe that I am not the only one here that has been tempted to lash out at you, Sigurd. You have sparked numerous temptations within several of the members here, which - by your own definition - would make you a witch.
I do not believe that anyone that causes temptation within another person is a witch. I believe that they are just another human struggling to live their life just as you or I struggle to live ours. Also, if the other person has no idea that they are sparking a temptation within you, TELL THEM! You cannot expect a person to correct something that might be a temptation to you if you do not make it known!
Finally, God does not play mind games with his children. If we look deep enough into his word and pray to him, relying on him for our every-day guidance, he will be there to let us know when we are wrong in our path. What do you think a conscience is for? God is ALWAYS there to accept us back into his loving arms when we sin against him. All we have to do is repent and acknowledge that we know what we did was wrong and ask him for forgiveness. God will NEVER turn his back on his children!
Modesty in Timothy was actually talking about not dressing too richly, with too much jewelry, etc...
Not necessarily practiced in churches today... I never hear that one criticised either.
I Tim 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
According to the Strongs... Modest means proper or respectful. Yes, in this case, nudity could be considered improper but in context...
"not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;"
