About a love.
A love is the basic law of the Christian church.
It is need to love all live organisms of the Universe.
Love human persons! Love animals! Love human persons ! Love birds! Love flowers! Love trees! etc etc
One of the basic laws of the Christian Church it is :" Do not kill."
Do not kill humans. Do not kill animals. Do not kill trees. Do not kill fishes. Do not kill insects.
Do not kill worms. etc etc
And I love the world. I love the trees. I love the animals , the human world, the fishes, the birds etc
A church has an opinion that any righteous person's soul will be in a paradise in future life.
I'd like to be in a paradise.
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Kevin wrote:
"So, all the Israelite soldiers throughout the Old Testament, the ones directed by God to wipe out every living person- man, woman, and child, in the Promised Land- their souls will be in hell?
What about David, who wasn't allowed to build God's Temple because he was a man of war, but was called by God Himself a man after God's own heart- his soul is in hell?
Noah had to cut down quite a few trees to build the Ark that God commanded him to build. Cutting down those trees sent him to hell?
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According to the Old Testament they are "righteous persons..."
But according to the New Testament they are murderers.
Christians are under law of the New Testament.
The New Testment is a law of a love.
A murder of a tree it is a murder.A murder of a worm it is a murder
Of course , any murder is a sin.
About any murderers The Bible wrote that any murderer's soul will be in a hell. (The Bible,
the New Testament, the Revelation)..
The paradise is a place for righteous persons only.
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Kevin wrote:
What about Peter and the other disciples? If my memory serves me correctly they were fishermen. Going to hell, right?"
First of all: a cross and a fish were Christian symbols during the New Testament's times of Roman Empire..
During the ancient times a word "fisherman" had 2 DIFFERENT definitions:
1) A person who fishs a fish in waters.
2) A Christian person with the fish's symbole.
In the New Testament's context the words "they were fishermen" it means "they were Christian persons".
They did not kill a fish. They did not fish a fish..
Because the Christian law is a law of a love.
Love the fish and animals . Love human persons.
Do not kill a fish and animals. Do not kill human persons.
Opinion of the Roman-Catholic church about witches.
June 12 2006, 7:12 AM
Kevin wrote:
So, are you saying that all the women that other men and women lust after, the models and actresses on TV and in print, all the women on the beaches of the world, all the girls in school being stared at by hormone-addled boys... ALL those people are witches?!?
Let's see some proof of this. I find it hard to believe that there are so many witches roaming around pretending to be house-wives, school-girls, and the women we work with. It's ridiculous.
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I prefer do not write my opinions. .I prefer to write opinions of major Christian churches.
For example, an opinion of the Roman-Catholic church about witches.
The Roman-Catholic church wrote a book of the church's laws "Malleus maleficarum"("A hammer against witches") about witches, about the Devil and about female sex....
The "The Malleus Maleficarum" is printed by the Roman -Catholic Church in the 1487th year...
The "Malleus Maleficarum" did determine general definitions and church's laws about questions what is a woman , what is a link between the Devil and women, what is a link between women and witches etc etc/ With questions how to search a witch, how to judge a witch, what is a witchcraft etc
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About a question "what is a woman?" the "Malleus Maleficarum" says: "A woman is natural evil is painted in beautiful colour. Woman is a composition of such things like a lie, a superstition, a vanity,a revenge, a boundless lust etc....The bad things are typical of female persons only ...The bad things are not typical of male persons...... Search witches between women...."
The "Malleus Maleficarum's definitions and laws were approved by special acts of Roman Popes Innocentius VIII, Alexander VI, Leo X, Hadrian VI..
"Malleus Maleficarum's definitions and laws were approved by special act of the Latheran superior council of the Roman Catholic church, the 1514 year..
During the 16th century the "Malleus Maleficarum's definitions and laws were approved by national Christian churches of Switzerland, Germany, England , Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark etc etc etc..
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In The Malleus Maleficarum there are quotes and references from a lot of sources. The sources are:
--the Bible(the New Testament and the Old Testament),
--books of famous holy persons like Thomas Acuinas, Gregory the Great, John the Goldmouth,
William of Paris etc etc etc.
--books of famous antique philosophs like Socratus etc etc
--books of ancient Christian writers like Lactantius, Jeronimus etc etc
--reports of church's inquisitors and church's official representatives about actions of witches..
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Kevin wrote:
So, are you saying that all the women that other men and women lust after, the models and actresses on TV and in print, all the women on the beaches of the world, all the girls in school being stared at by hormone-addled boys... ALL those people are witches?!?
According to an opinion of the Roman-Catholic church (by "the Malleus maleficarum" of the Roman-Catholic church) the answer is: "Yes. Because between women there are a lot of witches."
According to the church's laws of the Roman-Catholic church:
1) It is forbidden for women to be a priest.
2) It is forbidden for women to be a Roman Pope (a head of The Roman-catholic church and a king of Vatican's state.).
3) It is forbidden for priests of the Roman-Catholic church to be married.
4) It is forbidden for priests of the Roman-Catholic church to have sexual relations..
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I don't know if I'll be able to reason with you. I am getting tired of trying and so is everyone else.
However killing an animal for food isn't murder. Jesus ate fish himself.
Why are you quoting from a Catholic book on witches from 1487? The Roman Catholic Church has moved away from such notions. Back then the Catholic Church was having lots of problems. The Catholic Church could be brutal back then, burning people at the stake, excercising unrighteous power etc. etc., but now the Catholic Church has moved closer to Christ and has truly become a force of good. (I thank Pope John Paul and Mother Teresa for their Christ like examples)
NOTE: I am NOT attacking the Catholic Church. All religions have a really colorful past, due to the people that are in them. Even mine has a colorful past in many areas that most aren't proud of. As I said they have all come closer to Christ.
You say that "A woman is natural evil is painted in beautiful colour. Woman is a composition of such things like a lie, a superstition, a vanity,a revenge, a boundless lust etc....The bad things are typical of female persons only ...The bad things are not typical of male persons...... Search witches between women...."
That doesn't apply to all women. That certainly would apply to such Biblical women as Ruth from the Old Testament or Mary from the New Testament. I can also name others. What you have just said about woman can equally apply to some men. It's not fair to label all woman as vile seductresss. In fact I think that some of the woman on this page such as bornnude/Nancy and Laura Tobias are very righteous woman (not perfect but rightous) that our loving Brother Jesus Christ would love to take in his arms up to Heaven. The woman I have read from on this, have beautiful spirits.
As for not being married and remaining celibate, let me quote you something from the Bible. 1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop must be blameless, the husband of one wife....
Granted Paul said something about not being married. That doesn't apply to everyone. Marriage is very beautiful and holy. One doesn't have to be married, but it doesn't hurt for one to be married either.
I don't know what else to say. I love you Sigurd. I wish you well, but I wish you would keep an open mind. Remember being spiritual and being a Christian doesn't mean we have to be close minded. God bless.
Thanks for trying. good examples. Our church has had colorful pasts too, but also fond pasts.
There is Truth all through the church history, after all, Jesus said he will never leave us or forsake us. But that doesn't mean the church itself or the leaders are perfect. None of us are.
Many women throughout history has been a fine example of Christlike life and bravery where men failed.
BTW, Nancy is not "bornnude" (though technically she was) she is drhornist. She is a horn player (french, english, german horns) and is working on her doctorate, thus drhornist.
And I agree, this is getting old.
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
It is just me, or is there a very strong undercurrent of anit-catholic feeling among the members of this forum? Aside from this Sigred thing, I've often read "I used to be Catholic, but now I've become a Christain," or "I got over being Catholic."
I've never "gotten over" being Catholic, and I'm even less disposed to be quiet about it than I was. Catholics seem to be the last group that it's OK to bash, paricularly if you can disguise it with a little patriotic fervor about protecting our borders from terrorists and Mexicans. (When will we close off the Canadian Border? Oh, I forgot, they are not Catholic, and besides, they look like us.
It might have a little to do with 'Catholics' themselves making the following statement, and I've personally heard it many times. "I'm Catholic so I don't read the Bible, we have a priest to do that for us." Most, but not all, Catholics that I've come across doesn't know what is actually in the Bible. Most of them don't read it, the only things they know is what they hear from their priest. Personally, I never was a Catholic, but have talked to several to find that often their beliefs don't line up with what I've read in the Scriptors for myself. Where do they get them? I don't know. Is this a problem throughout Catholisism or is it just most of the Catholics that I have ran into?
Catholic theology is not solely Bible based, as I understand it. Particulary since there are many "true" versions of the Bible texts (did Adam really wear "breeches"?) Catholics rely on "authorized" translations and understandings of what the texts mean.
This does not -- surprisingly -- result in a lot of individual meanings of text, but an "understanding" if you will of what the authors intents may have been.
I don't believe that most Catholics understand the Bible literally. Many theologians understand the Bible to be a collection of stories amassed over a long period time to illustrate proper behaviours to people who were by today's standards pretty simple. Probably the world was not created in seven days, but simple people and even some sophisticated ones, may not be able to handle the idea of the earth being many millions of years old.
It's an oversimplification, and please don't read too much into this statement, but the Bible may be likened to Aesop's stories to illustrate good behaviour.
I can't help but be offended and insulted with the post about witches. Why would you consult such an out-of-date and obviously wrong book?
Those wonderful philosophers whose thoughts are included in this book, believed in spontaneous generation. They believed that meat could give rise to maggots, grain could give rise to mice, and who knows what other living things could come from some random non-living thing. I'm not sure that I would want to trust absolutely everything that they came up with, especially pertaining to my faith.
Women AND men were created in the image of God. I don't think that a creation in the image of God could inherently be as evil as you and this book say. Only Satan can spark that sort of evil, but God is able to defeat that evil time and time again.
Now, I definitely agree with Jonathan and Boyd, this entire ordeal has become VERY, VERY old.
While there may be a lot of nonsense in certain practices of the Church of Rome, I'm pretty sure that a 15th Century book is probably not the cutting edge of Benedict's Church.
I know as a matter of fact, that priests of the Roman Church may be married or may marry under certain conditions, and that other Churches allied with Rome do in fact permit (encourage? help me out here) married priests. Eastern Churches who acknowledge the aurthoriity of the Pope do have married priests.
On the rest of that, remember the Church of Rome condemned Galileo and Copernicus because they disagreed with Church "understanding" of the times. Today's Catholic Church doesn't comdemn them. AFAIK
Yes, Sigurd, you are right that love is the basic law of the New Testament. However, neither God nor Jesus ever told us to love the fishes as ourselves. On the contrary, we were told that God provided us with animals and plants so that we would have food to eat and materials to make clothes (to where when appropriate), blankets, shelters, etc. Read Genesis 1:26-29. It is explicitly stated that humans are made in God's image (both man and woman) and that humans have dominion over fish, birds, cattle, wild animals, and any creeping thing over the earth. It also explicitly says that we shall have them, meaning the animals and plants, for food.
If killing anything that is alive is murder, we could not live. We would have no clothing, as you seem to have a great need for, we would have very primative medicines and medical therapies, we would have no large permanent structures, and life would be rather boring.
If God did not provide us with animals and plants to be used for food and other products, which involves killing them, what is their purpose on the earth?
Also, men fishing for fish were very much a part of the Bible. Read Luke 5:1-11, Jesus actually commands Simon Peter to partake in fishing and he ends up enlisting the help of his friends because of the bounty that is provided. This was the career that Simon Peter, James and John had chosen to have before Jesus called them to be fishers of men rather than animals of the sea.
Also read John 21:1-14, in the account of Jesus appearing to the disciples after his resurrection. Again, Simon Peter goes out on the lake with several others only to catch nothing. Jesus makes his presence known and, once again, provides a bountiful supply of fish within Simon Peter's nets. It is even documented that Simon Peter was on the lake in the nude! Does Jesus rebuke him for being nude while fishing on the lake in full view of anyone that might have passed by? No. Surely, if it was sinful for Simon Peter to be in the nude on the lake, Jesus would have rebuked him...nothing is said of it. Jesus considers it of no importance and moves on to things that really matter.
Good luck finding things to make clothing from, eating, and making your own shelter if you cannot use anything living. The only reason that we have synthetic fibers today is because we have something model after. Same goes for processed foods and synthetic building materials (although building materials might easier to fabricate without killing living materials).
Do you breath? If so, you may kill bugs, germs, bacteria.
Do you wear clothes? If so, you kill animals, plants, and anything is used to make clothing and take care of clothing.
Is your clothing made from cloth which was woven using machinery? If so, some of that machinery and in fact, all machinery up until the last one hundered years, were made of wood. From trees we killed.
In order to plant cotton, we need to destroy fields of other plants and trees. In order to make clothing with cotton, we have to kill the cotton plant.
In order for you to live in a house, trees for wood was cut.
Jesus was a carpenter. He cut trees.
God commanded Noah to cut down trees for his ark. The Temple of Solomon was made of trees.
All sacrifices were done with wood from trees and animals that were killed.
Chariots of the bible were made of wood, cut down trees.
Bugs and earth worms were killed or smothered when concrete was poured to make the sidewalks and streets you walk on. Your house probably kills bugs as well as attract them. In fact, you kill bugs all the time. How many have you stepped on this week??
Taken a bath lately? Hope so! Yet you kill bugs on your body!
Am I being silly? Probably, but at this point, who cares?
Read my article called Ecologically Sound and see if you agree with my theories.
Save the earth, save water, save trees! How? By going nude!!! We don't use up the earths natural resources like you do! YOU however are killing the planet by wearing clothing!
Good luck.
Boyd
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
I don't know what you're after in putting these up here.
Peter was commanded to "kill and eat" the animals he saw on the sheet. If you don't remember this, go study your Bible some more. Go study it anyway. You seem to be severely deficient in what it says.
Peter was a fisherman, even after Jesus died. Fish are killed when fished. Not a sin. Even Jesus ate some of the dead, cooked fish when he appeared on the shore after his resurrection.
All human and animal kind were vegetarians before the flood (Genesis about ch. 2). After the flood, there weren't any fresh vegetables, they were allowed to eat meat for the first time (Genesis about ch. 9). Gotta generally kill animals and fish to eat them.
There's a sect in India that doesn't believe in killing anything. They only wear cotton clothing if they wear anything at all, never kill insects, are very careful in all that they do not to kill anything. Why don't you search them out and join up?
You wrote:
"According to the Old Testament they are "righteous persons..."
But according to the New Testament they are murderers...
...About any murderers The Bible wrote that any murderer's soul will be in a hell. (The Bible, the New Testament, the Revelation)... The paradise is a place for righteous persons only."
In this post you contradict yourself. You claim that the OT calls the people I mentioned as righteous, and therefore worthy of heaven, then you say that the NT calls them sinners (which is not correct). How can they be both? According to you they should go both to hell and heaven.
And by the way, the cross was not a Christian symbol during the time the Bible was written.
And if the disciples weren't actually fishing for fish, why were they repairing their nets by the shore?
You are sorely mistaken regarding your understanding of the Bible and biblical times. Unfortunately, I don't feel that you are willing to accept this or are you willing to change.
I expect no reply from you on this post, and have written it solely so that any other person reading will not be led astray by your misimformation.
When one lles, they steal, when they steal, they cheat, and in so doing have commited murder five times over.
When one lies to another, they steal that trust of another, and in so doing, cheat themselves out of their loyalty.
Truth has been murdered.
Honesty has been murdered.
Integrity has been murdered.
The spirit of the other has been murdered.
The one who lied has murdered their own spirit.
The same can be said of one who has hatred towards another without just cause. Such a one is quilty of murder as well.
And the list does go on.
I thank God for his forgiveness of sin, and that I was humble enough to accept his forgiveness of all my sin, and that I can go on and sin no more. It is one thing to acknowledge that one is in need of forgiveness of their sins, but another thing entirely to accept that forgiveness of sin. For without the acceptance of God's forgiveness of sin, one can never hope to be pardoned of any sin. This is the unforgiveable sin.
God has promised that the son, (children), shall not bear the iniquity of the father, (parents), nor shall the father, (parents), bear the iniquity of the son, (children). Everyone will answer for their own deeds, good or bad.....Ezekial 18:20
What of the woman caught in adultery? What was the action and behavior of Jesus regarding this woman? What happened after Jesus bent down and started writing upon the ground? All her accusers having been convicted by their own conscience left one by one until none remained except for Jesus and the woman.
What was the next thing Jesus did? He asked the woman where her accusers were, ad she old Jesus that they had all left and that there was none left to condemn her. What did Jesus do then? He said, "Neither do I accuse you. Your sins are forgiven, now go and sin no more. John 8:1-11
Accusing others of being witches, harlots, prostitutes, liars, thieves, deceivers, and the list goes on.
You have yourself accused others by your own judgement against yourself, which is proof positive that you too have judged yourself and found yourself lacking. You have weighed yourself in the balances and have proven yourself to be just as guilty as the ones whom you have accused.
One who accuses another has become Judge, Jury and Excutioner. There is only One Judge, Jury and Executioner, the Lord Jesus, the Christ, the anointed one.
Hear the word of the Lord. "Only the accuser points the finger at another, but the accuser shall be judged for the accuser is not without sin".
Whatever it may be that one does to another, they have done to themselves, and what they have done to themselves they have done to the one they call their God,......Lying,....Stealing,.....Cheating,......making accusations, no matter it they are true or false,......and the list goes on. When one lies to another they have also lied to God. When one accuses another, they have also accused God.
