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Nudity is a sin and is shamefull Boyd please read this

June 18 2006 at 12:02 AM
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Bla  (no login)

 
I have read some of the nudist crap from so called christian nudists. It really makes me sad. I contacted a pastor and did some reasearch on the net.

A few things I read I also noticed.

Most of the time males are the ones wanting to get involed in nudity and almost all the time women arent. Every site I have been two including this one most women do not want to be apart of this nudist crap.

Men leave without them. It causes family problems when women dont want the male to walk naked in front of the kids and the male doesnt care.

I have read also that people get divorced and have been divorced many times. I went to several sites and it was amazing how many cases I read about this.

They kept saying the wife wasnt giving in and seeing the "freedom" she could have. What they should relize is its the nudity that caused this. Without the nudity there would have been no divorce.

Some say its not about sex. Its a lie if a Christian says he is after being around naked people less sexual arroused by the female form.

Many people get addicted to porn and I know its not for them to look on the body in a wholesome way.

The Bible is against nudity. I feel sorry for you boyd.

The Bible says stay away from the appearence of sin. And to not be a stumbling block to others. You cant tell if they are lusting or not. So stay dressed.

Then you will prob tell me even clothed people lust. Personally im a teen and when a woman is wearing a modest set of clothing I dont lust over her. But when she shows more skin then its arousing.

People get addicted to porn. NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY SEE OF THE NAKED BODIES THEY WANT MORE.

Saying everyone go naked does nothing. Now they can just look anytime. So sad....

I talked to a pastor and he wrote me this about the Bible and nudity.

I also have 2 links for you to read.
http://www.tektonics.org/libchr/whatsnude.html
and
http://www.themarriagebed.com/pages/bible/app/naturism.shtml

Thanks for your prayers and faith. With regard to the alleged, ‘Christian nudism,’ or a, ‘Christian nudist camp,’ the last thing any Christian believer should even be associated with is this kind of pornographic material. Yes, I agree with your position, and the scripture affirms the same, as I will point out later.

ÿ Galatians 5:13 It is absolutely clear that God has called you to a free life. Just make sure that you don’t use this freedom as an excuse to do whatever you want to do and destroy your freedom. Rather, use your freedom to serve one another in love; that’s how freedom grows. The Message Bible by Eugene Peterson 2002

I should honestly caution you not to even visit websites that are promoting this stuff, because every man’s battle with pornographic temptations is a reality and Christian men are no less susceptible to its evil lure. I’m including myself in this admonition too, because the devil targets those on the front lines the most. In the past, I have personally counseled devoted Christian men, whose involvement with some degree of pornographic media or another eventually led to a destructive addiction to porn, which subsequently ruined their marriages and destroyed their families literally within weeks or months.

I want to define the word, “porn,” from scripture before continuing further, as most Christians have a very shallow understanding of the word’s extensive applications. In today’s modern Bible versions, the Greek word, “porneía” is translated in a variety of ways, such as the following: fornication, immorality, sexual immorality, lewdness, adultery, etc.

The Greek word porneía (NT: 4202) is defined as meaning harlotry, but it includes in its applications any type of illicit sexual intercourse, such as fornication, adultery, and incest. Such prostitution excesses were very common among the heathen in the times of the Apostles (1 Corinthians 5:1,9,10; 6:9). Porneia also has a general reference to any sexual sin (e.g. - 1 Corinthians 6:13,18; 7:2; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Revelation 9:21). Porneia specifically refers to adultery in the text of Matthew 5:32; 19:9, and porneia is used of incest in 1 Corinthians 5:1; it is also used of idolatry, since unfaithfulness toward God equal to sexual unfaithfulness to one's marriage partner (Revelation 2:21; 14:8; 17:2,4; 18:3; 19:2; Sept.: Jeremiah 3:9; Ezekiel 16:15,22; 23:27; Hosea 2:2; 4:12).

The Greek New Testament uses the word porneía and some of its word cognates to represent the idolization of something or someone by a believer and today its illicit sexual connotations implicate the unclean devotion of any Christian man (or woman) involved with porn. Since scripture makes the true disciple of Jesus, (i.e. – the church) analogous to a ‘chaste virgin’ being espoused to God, then any conscious defilement, which violates the believer’s covenant relationship with Him is in effect, the same as devotion is given to the idols.

For example, as a sexual vice, ‘porneía’ idolatry typically occurs when the believer begins forsaking of the true God in order to spend time masturbating in front of his or her computer monitor, as he or she views pornographic images (this is just one example). Masturbate is a Mid-19th century word, originating from the past participle of masturbari. This root word is of uncertain origin, but perhaps from manu stuprare, “to defile with the hand,” or, “debauchery with the hand.”

The harlot church in the Book of Revelation is described as one that has defiled herself with sexual uncleanness, implicating the global influences of pornographic imagery upon the lives of individual and the spiritual health of the worldwide corporate body of believers.

Porneia is not limited to the type of media produced by the sex film’s illicit industry because porneia occurs inside the mind, and begins with an inordinate craving or lust from within a person’s heart. There were no television sets or computers in the 1st century, when the Greek term pórnos, pórnou, porneía, and other related words were used to describe sexually immoral acts, expressions, or thoughts.

Strong’s defines a Greek word cognate of porneía (porneuo; NT: 4203 from NT: 4204) as meaning, “to act the harlot, i.e. (literally) indulge unlawful lust (of either sex), or (figuratively) practice idolatry.” Porneuo also means, “to prostitute one's body to the lust of another; to give oneself to unlawful sexual intercourse; to commit fornication (e.g. - 1 Corinthians 6:18).” Porneuo is also used by Jews as a metaphoric Hebraism, which means, “to be given to idolatry, to worship idols,” (e.g. - 1 Chronicles 5:25).

Without doubt, the so-called, ‘Christian Naturalist,’ is a lie from the devil, and is predominantly practiced by pornographic publishers seeking yet another market for the flood of filth being promulgated in the 21st century. The etymological path of our English word, “pornography,” can easily be traced to the ancient city of Corinth. The word ‘pornography’ is derived directly from the Greek and this word is verbalized by transliterating a compounded form of two Greek words, “porneia,” (meaning, ‘sexual immorality of any sort’), and, “grapho,” (meaning, ‘to scribe, etch, write, draw, etc’).

For nearly two centuries, archaeological digs of the Roman Empire period have yielded overwhelming amounts of ancient artifacts, such as images found on coins, detailed in the artistry (i.e. – idolatry) of the silversmith and goldsmith works, tile mosaics, statues (many still standing where first placed), painted and/or dyed murals and carvings etched in stone, marble, alabaster, wood, and other materials, which items have indelibly preserved and today give a picture of the lifestyle, culture, mannerisms, and other practices of that era.

These archaic depictions provide convincing historical records about the type of debauchery that immoralized and eventually amoralized the heart of the Roman Empire, leading to its ultimate demise, including the practice of public nudity, (including topless women), rampant sexual immorality (everything from bestiality to sodomy), drunken orgies, as well as and other forms of sin that the unbelievers indulged and reveled in.

Not surprising therefore, is the apostle Paul’s frequent mention and warnings to the Christians in his letters to various First Century churches throughout Asia Minor. The strong rebukes written to the believers residing in the city of Corinth specify the kind of vulgar, offensive sexual immorality engaged by some, including incest. The New International Version of 1 Corinthians 6:13 (below) translates the Greek word porneia as, “sexual immorality,” because it generalizes ancient idolatry and sexual vice as one and the same.

ÿ 1 Corinthians 6:13 The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. New International Version
Corinth was considered the ancient equivalent of modern Las Vegas, and so rampant was its sexually deviant practices, that a common euphemism expressed throughout the Roman Empire to describe fornication, adultery or other types of sexual promiscuity was attributed to an immoral person, saying he or she was, “Corinthianized.”

Naturalist claims that nudism is akin to the liberties we are bestowed from God in Christ is downright insulting to the Holy One. The apostle Paul was no stranger to this subject either, as noted throughout the context of his letters to the churches at Corinth, in which he actually addresses this very topic. As Corinth was notorious for its rampant sexual vice.

Being a follower of Jesus Christ does not exempt us from common decency and God never says we must, “feel good,” about our naked bodies! Jesus never walked around naked, and he is the only human being that is ever worthy of the purity of character and prefall innocence that predates Adam’s sin.

From what I researched online, it appears this alleged, “Christian Naturalist (nudism),” movement is being championed by porn producers, which specialize in pedophilia. The false teachers and deceivers promulgating this filth under the disguise of, ‘Christian Naturalists,’ are therefore perverts, in the strictest sense of the word. I read about one group whose website was recently closed, except for a cover page, was said to have featured multiple pornographic images of nude children under the age of eight years old, including photographs of very young boys and girls posing for the camera, who were as young as five or six years old!

The group that you mentioned, located in Tampa, Florida, is no different, and though the naturalists rationalize publicly displaying one’s genitalia, their claim to, “freedom in Christ,” has outraged Christian and secular public, which have been aggressively highly opposed to the group’s proposed nudist colony, which is targeted to open in 2006.

The Christian man that alleges he is ‘beyond’ porn’s tempting enticement is self-deluded and out-and-out deceived! The Internet’s protocol offers free and open access to this spiritual and mental barf, just long enough to get a man hooked on it. Then the sex industries’ sleazebag producers run the porn addict’s credit card debt into the ground until he owes a huge financial debt for the piles of porn videos, CD’s, magazines and other repulsive imagery he has hidden or stashed from the prying eyes of his wife and children.

Especially vulnerable to the lure of porn and statistically, the ones who are most readily and easily addicted are teenagers between the ages of 15-19 years of age, because of the hormonal changes that occur during and after puberty. Each successive generation grows up with a greater familiarity and use of the Internet, and their natural adolescent curiosity is a target of the porn producers. Pornography use has, in my estimation, almost single-handedly resulted in the downfall of America’s morality, and is fueling an ever-increasing sense of lawlessness and iniquity, making this world a very dangerous place to live in, particularly for young women and girls.

You will never hear me be anything other than outspoken against porn, because the only way we as believing men can resist and lead the troops of righteousness to a life of purity is by example. Don’t think for one minute that a man’s clandestine involvement with porn goes undetected by your wife or girlfriend, and certainly not unnoticed by the Almighty. God has built into a woman’s psyche the ability to sense the demonically impure and disgusting influences of porn, even when she cannot figure own in her mind what’s wrong.

ÿ Titus 1:15a Everything is clean to those who have clean minds. But nothing is wholesome to those who are themselves corrupt… Phillip’s New Testament
Weymouth New Testament Translation renders the first part of Titus 1:15 this way, “To the pure everything is pure; but to the polluted… nothing is pure… on the contrary, their very minds and consciences are polluted. Notice, those who participate in gross immorality, such as you described with the example of so-called, ‘Christian nudism,’ have, “polluted consciences.” This means they have no sense of right or wrong, so any rationale used to justify their position about nudity stems from a corrupted conscience and mind. The Message Bible by Eugene Peterson 2002 renders the same verse as follows:

ÿ Titus 1:15 Everything is clean to the clean-minded; nothing is clean to dirty-minded unbelievers. They leave their dirty fingerprints on every thought and act. The Message Bible by Eugene Peterson 2002

Even if there was some basis for Christians to practice nudism, the fact is the behavior would have to be confined and limited only to the individual’s private residence, otherwise he or she would have to throw away the Bible to ignore its many commandments and warnings about this behavior. Consider the example found in Peter’s second epistle, which uses an Old Testament patriarch (Lot) to illustrate this very point.

Below I have pasted the entire second chapter for your reference, and will close with this passage. I have highlighted in blue the specific references, which specify as wrong and attributed to men as false prophets and false teachers in the Christian churches that introduce teachings as a substitutional form of religion by promising freedom thru gross sexual immorality, which need no further commentary by me to make the point.

ÿ 2 Peter 2:1-22
1-3 But even in those days there were false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you today. They will be men who will subtly introduce dangerous heresies. They will thereby deny the Lord who redeemed them, and it will not be long before they bring on themselves their own downfall. 2 Many will follow their flagrant immorality and thereby bring discredit on the way of truth. 3 In their lust to make converts these men will try to exploit you too with their bogus arguments. But judgment has been for some time hard on their heels and their downfall is inevitable.
4-9 For if God did not spare angels who sinned against him, but banished them to the dark imprisonment of hell till judgment day; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world but only saved Noah, the solitary voice that cried out for righteousness, and his seven companions when he brought the flood upon the world in its wickedness; 6 and if God reduced the entire cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes, when he sentenced them to destruction as a fearful example to those who wanted to live in defiance of his laws, 7-8 and yet saved Lot the righteous man, in acute mental distress at the filthy lives of the godless––Lot, remember, was a good man suffering spiritual agonies day after day at what he saw and heard of their lawlessness––then you may be absolutely certain that the 9 Lord knows how to rescue good men surrounded by temptation, and how to reserve his punishment for the wicked until their day comes.
10-11 His judgment is chiefly reserved for those who have indulged all the foulness of their lower natures, and have nothing but contempt for authority. These men are arrogant and presumptuous––they think nothing of scoffing at the glories of the unseen world. 11 Yet even angels, who are their superiors in strength and power, do not bring insulting criticisms of such things before the Lord.
12-13 But these men, with no more sense than the unreasoning brute beasts which are born to be caught and killed, scoff at things outside their own experience, and will most certainly be destroyed in their own corruption. 13 Their wickedness has earned them an evil end and they will be paid in full. These are the men who delight in daylight self–indulgence; they are foul spots and blots, playing their tricks at your very dinner–tables.
14-16 Their eyes cannot look at a woman without lust, and they miss no opportunity for sin. They captivate the unstable ones, and their technique of getting what they want is, through long practice, highly developed. They are born under a curse, 15 for they have abandoned the right road and wandered off to follow the old trail of Balaam, son of Beor, the man who had no objection to wickedness as long as he was paid for it. 16 But he, you remember, was sharply reprimanded for his wickedness––by a donkey, of all things, speaking with a human voice to check the prophet’s wicked infatuation!
17-19 These men are like wells without a drop of water in them, like the changing shapes of whirling storm–clouds, and their fate will be the black night of utter darkness. 18 With their high–sounding nonsense they use the sensual pull of the lower passions to attract those who were just on the point of cutting loose from their companions in evil. 19 They promise them liberty. Liberty!––when they themselves are bound hand and foot to utter depravity. For a man is the slave of whatever masters him.
20-22 If men have escaped from the world’s contaminations through knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and then become entangled and defeated by them all over again, their last position is worse than their first. 21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of goodness at all, than after knowing it to turn their backs on the sacred commandments given to them. 22 For them, the old proverbs have come true about the, “dog returning to his vomit,” and "the sow that had been washed going back to wallow in the muck.” Phillip’s New Testament
There is a major deception involved with places like the nudist colony in Tampa, Florida, whose pornography included children! Christians should be outraged at such debauchery and evil, and those who promote and practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of heaven I can assure you. Jesus the Christ warned that in the last ages (eons) the love of “most” believers will grow cold (Read Matthew 24:3-5 and 24:10-14). The Amplified Bible renders the Lord’s prophetic warnings as follows (below):

ÿ Matthew 24:4-5, 10-12 Jesus answered them, “Be careful that no one misleads you deceiving you and leading you into error. 5 For many will come in on the strength of My name appropriating the name which belongs to Me, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray…10 And then many will be offended and repelled and will begin to distrust and desert Him Whom they ought to trust and obey and will stumble and fall away and betray one another and pursue one another with hatred. 11 And many false prophets will rise up and deceive and lead many into error. 12 And the love of the great body of people will grow cold because of the multiplied lawlessness and iniquity, Amplified Bible
There is much more I could say brother, but my limits constrain elaborating further. There is no such thing as a ‘Christian’ nudist. The Greek New Testament is abounding with references that use the word porneia, porneuo and other related word cognates, all of which originate from the root word pórnos. This Greek root word pórnos originally meant a male prostitute, to commit fornication, or to play the harlot. Related words in the New Testament always connote negative, sinful behavior. Rather than pasting the actual verses, instead I have provided you with a comprehensive list of all these scripture passages, which I strongly suggest you look up and familiarize yourself with each passage, especially Matthew’s gospel and the apostle Paul’s first letter to the Corinthian church (see references below).

New Testament References that use Greek words related to pórnos:
Matthew 5:32; 15:19; 19:9; 21:31; 21:32
Mark 7:21
Luke 15:30
John 8:41
Acts 15:20; 15:29; 21:25
Romans 1:29
1 Corinthians 5:1(X2); 5:9; 5:10; 5:11; 6:9; 6:13; 6:15; 6:16; 6:18(X2); 7:2; 10:8(X2);
2 Corinthians 12:21
Galatians 5:19
Ephesians 5:3; 5:5
Colossians 3:5
1 Thessalonians 4:3
1 Timothy 1:10
Hebrews 11:31; 12:16; 13:4
James 2:25
Revelation 2:14; 2:20; 2:21; 9:21; 14:8; 17:1; 17:2(X2); 17:4;17:5; 17:15; 17:16; 18:3(X2); 18:9; 19:2(X2); 21:8; 22:15

I hope this information is helpful in your judgments brother. Stay strong in the faith, and seek purity in all that you do, say, and watch.

Nudity can not just be "nothing" and fine for everyone. God gave us our clothes. God even told the priests to be covered.

When adam and eve were first made there was no sin. After sin came into their lives they covered up. THEY KNEW THEY WERE NAKED.

BEFORE THEY DID NOT.

I will pray for you all here. Dont believe these lies. The Bible shows nudity as shamefull after the fall.





 
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Boyd Allen
(Login boydallen)
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Shameful lack of facts

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June 18 2006, 4:16 AM 

Wow, this is so close yet so far. First of all, we appreciate you looking out for our souls, and believe me, we all need looking out for, including you.

But where did you get this stuff? After all, there are no pornography here! Everything the writer who responded to you had no relationship with my website! He refered to a place in Florida somewhere that shows off pictures. We have no pictures, no links to websites that do have pornography and we are naturists, not naturalists.

Apparently when you wrote to your friend about these websites, you did not include ours! He never referenced this site, nor has he even read them! What does he know about it? Nothing! Just what you mentioned and showed him.

Pornography is sexual photography. There is none here, nor is there any reference to them here!

Get your facts straight, and he is right, stay out of those sites!

And we do not have a problem of people doing this against their wives here. My wife and I both attend naturist resorts, and there is no sexual activiity going on there!

In this letter, this quote was made: "Titus 1:15 Everything is clean to the clean-minded; nothing is clean to dirty-minded unbelievers. They leave their dirty fingerprints on every thought and act. The Message Bible by Eugene Peterson 2002"

Funny, is a nude body not clean to you? And it is clean to us? So who has the dirty mind here? Apparently you are the one who is has the dirty thoughts when you see a nude body, where we seem to treat the body as clean and holy and redeemed by God. Since we are no longer under the curse of Adam, but under grace of Jesus Christ, why are we still being punished by God?

You wrote: "When adam and eve were first made there was no sin. After sin came into their lives they covered up. THEY KNEW THEY WERE NAKED."
Are you saying that if we don't know we are naked then we can be naked? And does sin always reveal the physical fact that we are physically naked? And if Jesus Christ cleansed us of all sin, and we are counted as righteous, are we then "sinless" and no longer worried about being naked?

Adam and Eve were cut off from God, and when one is cut off, they are no longer thinking like God, and the first thing they did was cover up. But when they were in God's presence, they were naked. Now what changed? Sin? Sin made them think holy or did it make them think foolishly? How can sin make one think holy? If the only way they realize that they were naked and rightfully cover up as we should be, then why didn't God tell them that in the first place?
And if being holy means Adam and Eve can be naked, then why are not holy people allowed to be naked? And if being naked is what causes us to sin, then God was the one who made them naked and left them that way, so did God cause them to sin?

Make sure your friend who wrote this letter to you understand that you are posting this on sites where he has not visited or read. Obviously, you didn't read it either. And I don't mean this Forum, I mean my personal website you will find linked at the bottom and top by a blue banner.

Read it and then come to us, not with accusations, but with questions.

Boyd Allen
"May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."



 
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bornnude
(Login bornnude)

A couple of other things of note

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June 18 2006, 6:47 AM 

A couple of other things to note...


  • The word "naturalist" was used for nudist... Common mistake but should be naturist.
  • http://www.tektonics.org/libchr/whatsnude.html refers to a group called "Liberated Christians" which is NOT related to naturism, although they like to blur the lines on that. I would guess the majority of us here would not endorse what they stand for.
  • The Marriage Bed page has a lot of anecdotal information but a couple of pertanate points on it...

    • The article states "I also agree with you that Christian nudism is not a good idea, but not for the reasons you give. Your reasons would be easily dismissed by someone involved with Christian nudism. The problem with addressing this topic is that the Bible really doesn't condemn it. Christian naturists can argue that the problem is not with what they are doing, but with the way society reacts to it. This is true, but how do we wish to change society? Do we want to make them all nudists, or make them all Christians?"
    • As Boyd mentions, it then talks about the wedge in marriages. I know of other wedges such as hobbies (wood crafts, sports). Do we call these evil in and of themselves? Not most Christians!
    • The article states... "I met many naturist men who were on wife number 2 or 3, all because the previous spouse refused to get involved." I know many non-nudists in the same situation...
    • The third thing I will question about this article is the claim on naturism's effect on our witness. I believe that that can be true. It is, however, also true that Christians unwillingness to give grace towards activities that may even be sinful also have that effect and maybe longer lasting. We have "Christians" (in quotes because of I John 4:7-8) who "hate homosexuals" and are willing to protest. Do those protests bring them closer to God? Above we have a Christian who is quite vocal about disapproving of nudists... Does that bring other non-christian nudists to God by calling them immoral (a questionable charge) and pornography minded?

  • The dump truck was unloaded here and it will take a little while to process but my summary is the poster assumes nudity = sex (false) and that anything sexual outside marriage is wrong (true)

 
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Bla
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goodbye

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June 18 2006, 7:15 AM 

My friend warned me to stay away from these filthy sites. Boyd im sorry you are so confused. I just felt I should try and warn you.

God didnt leave adam and eve naked. He covered them after they sinned. God could have simply told them nudity was okay and not be ashamed but he did not.

In the Bible it refers to nudity as shamefull. Peter would fish nude but when he came on shore where people were he was clothed. He was fishing around other men.

When Jesus came after him in one verse in the Bible he told peter to grab his coat and come with him.

Well im leaving. I hope you will change from this one day. I can not force you to change.
Bye everyone!


 
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Boyd Allen
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Filth?

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June 18 2006, 12:05 PM 

Sorry you couldn't keep working with us and gave up too quickly. But since this is not the site that your pastor told you to stay away from, I'm confused.

We don't have any "filth" here. We preach the gospel. Where is this "filth" you are refering to?

boyd

 
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Boyd Allen
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Why is it....

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June 18 2006, 12:15 PM 

...that those who try to convince us otherwise, always tell us that God clothed Adam and Eve after they sinned? We know that!!!

But Jesus is the SECOND Adam and he took AWAY our sins! We are no longer under the old law! READ THE BOOK OF ROMANS FELLAH!

And they never seem to read my articles on the subject! Please, PLEASE read the articles I wrote BEFORE making assumptions or accusations! This is only a FORUM for the website! The website has articles, though not perfect or, and I'll admit, not all theologically correct in every way, but is where we need to gain your insite in putting me to shame!

Writing to your pastor about ANOTHER site that is not only not a good Christian site, but is not even linked to this one nor have we endorsed it is not right! It is LYING!

PLEASE don't condemn this group for the bad works of another!

Write to your pastor and point him (or her) to THIS site:
Here, I'll help you with the URL:> http://www.network54.com/Forum/83405

and my main url is:> http://www.geocities.com/boydallen

If you want to get serious, use these links, not some unrelated trash site!

Boyd

 
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bla
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reply back

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June 18 2006, 5:31 PM 

First ,
I did not give up on anything. Im against nudity remember and nothing you will say is going to change that because of what I read in the Bible.

I wrote to him as the public nudity as a whole. I told him what you and other so called christian nudists have said. He used the internet and looked for himself.


Yes Jesus takes away our sins if we are a Christian but thats not a liscense to sin.

We try and live a good live not a bad one once were saved.

Casual nudity was not mentioned in the Bible after the fall. What you are saying is all pics of topless and nude people unless they are in some pose makes it non nudity as is perfect.

The thing about the prophets going nude (Isaiah 20)In the end of the 3 years he got redressed. Casual nudity was not part of it. It was for a sign and it may have not even been around mixed company we dont know. It mentiones in verses below it in the same chapter as this was a sign of shame. They wanted to make the captives ashamed.

I have read your articles and I posted a link going against your articles in the first post.

I even read on your own site of a wife leaving her husband because of nudity. Also of a church cutting off some people from being involved in the church after they found out they were nudists.

It says in the Bible to put down every hindrance and run the race set before you. Nudity is a hindrance and you can not even deny that. Not everybody does it(really quite few in america and its not even universal in europe) and so people look down on a nude man or woman. The first thing they think of when they see a nude man or woman is what a slut or such. So people look down on nudists espicially the church. Again its a hindrance for that reason.

We all sin. Nudity can cause lust. Some say it doesnt after a bit naked around others you just come to see everyone has a body and its no big deal to see them naked. Really it is a big deal. Men and women are attracted by the bodies of each other. They want to see them naked and when you just go naked they get to see them naked all the time. That does not mean there is lest lust or that it helped bring down the crime rate. Instead of having to rape someone they can just go to there beach and look at all the naked people they want.

Nudity cannot be casual and just plain nude without any problems. Sin caused this to be. Before adam and eve did not know they were naked. There was not lust they just saw each other naked and did not think of each others bodies as anything more than there own. But after the sin they covered. Then God gave them clothes. God would not have given them clothes if he did not want us to cover our private parts.

Its not a culture based thing or should not be. The Bible is never out of date and it tells us what is right and wrong. It shows that public nudity is not right. It shows it to be shamefull. And we are to cover our private parts.

I have even heard of people saying they are christians going to nude beaches and having sex out in the open at night but others may have been around.

The Bible says to even stay away from the appearence of evil. People look down on people who just go nude. They consider it slutty and wrong.

Another thing to think about. Nudity would not even be clean for everyone to do now days. Like women things and sweat and not cleaning the rear and private parts. Like sitting on a roller coaster ride yuck they thought of peoples tales being on it and you sitting on it. I guess germs are also part of the fall and so it would not even be clean. In the Bible it talks about when women go through the cycle every month that you would be unclean if you touch

Therefore I desire that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. I Timothy 2:8-10


[1 Timo. 2:8-10]

Notice how it said apparel. Modesty means to cover the parts that are considered private. It did not say no clothing it said clothing. There was no "lack of clothing is fine as long as everyone else is naked" in the verse.

This site has a nice read.
http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVstudies/GrowingUpInTheLord/Boys/10ProperAttire.htm

The Bible shows we are to cover up. Even when the angels are mentioned they were mentioned with robes on and not nude.

Mr Boyd im not against you or any other nudist. I do not approve of public nudity because of what the Bible says. I do not want to see others naked anyways. I would not take a shower even in a all boys room. Nudity should be reserved between you and your wife privately and not around any family,kids or strangers.

I wont be coming back here or any other nude or topless site. I dont want to be tempted to look at porn pics of naked people. One day I will have a wife and we can see each others bodies in privacy of marriage.

Have a good day everyone!


 
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Boyd Allen
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Glad to see you again

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June 18 2006, 6:07 PM 

I'm glad you came back. Whether you will again depends on your willingness to not give up.

You have some correct assumptions and incorrect.

First of all, I am not sure what you wrote to him. I am not sure what articles he read or pictures viewed.

I am sorry you cannot come back to this site and not be offended by pictures, when in fact, we have no pictures here to be offended or tempted over! If I were to put up a picture, it would probably be of myself and surley you wouldn't be tempted by that!!!

If you are refering to the naked Jesus on the cross, that is so far removed from "porn" it ain't funny! Jesus was crucified on the cross naked. That is historical fact! Those pictures of Jesus you are used to are based on porn simply because people were thinking of sex when they see a nude body! SHAME ON THEM! Especially for the Christ!!

You wrote "I have even heard of people saying they are christians going to nude beaches and having sex out in the open at night but others may have been around."
YOu have heard. Heresay is not what we spread here. But if they did have sex at night alone on the beach, what of it? Did you know that clothed Christians have done the same thing? Sure they have! Did anyone see them? Even you wrote "...but others may have been around." Or may not have. That is speculation and not fact.

You wrote:
"Another thing to think about. Nudity would not even be clean for everyone to do now days. Like women things and sweat and not cleaning the rear and private parts. Like sitting on a roller coaster ride yuck they thought of peoples tales being on it and you sitting on it. I guess germs are also part of the fall and so it would not even be clean. In the Bible it talks about when women go through the cycle every month that you would be unclean if you touch"

Wow, you think women don't clean themselves? What women have you been hanging out with?? WHEW! Who sits on roller coasters naked?

But keep in mind, in a naturist resort or when visiting other naturists, we sit on our own (OUR OWN) towels so we can respect other peoples furniture (or roller coasters). And with the showers and hottubs and pools we have at naturist resorts, we are probably the cleanest people around. And besides that, our clothing do not hold in the sweat and causes us to grow germs and bacteria. Air circulates our bodies and keeps us cool and dry. We are required to shower before entering a pool or hot tub.

And of course, the women who are going through their monthly cycle wear shorts or something to protect their surroundings. They are not unclean.

You wrote "The Bible says to even stay away from the appearence of evil. People look down on people who just go nude. They consider it slutty and wrong."

Just because others think slutty when they see a nude body does not make it so. It is your problem if you are in a habit of "looking down on people", for any reason.

We are not "doing" things that you believe we are doing. There are thousands of websites out there we have no control over. Did you know there are Christians who think that God does not love the sinner? We believe he loves all people, sinners. He hates the sin, but not the sinner. There are people who think Jesus is not really God, yet they call themselves Christian. Go jump on them for a while.

You wrote "I do not approve of public nudity because of what the Bible says." The bible says absolutely nothing about public nudity, in fact, there is no where it says that being nude is a sin. No where!

Well, good day to you too. And may God bless you with a good wife.

Boyd


 
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Jonathan
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*sigh*

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June 18 2006, 7:24 PM 

I am going to reply to this message in seperate fragments.

--------First ,
I did not give up on anything. Im against nudity remember and nothing you will say is going to change that because of what I read in the Bible.----

I wrote to him as the public nudity as a whole. I told him what you and other so called christian nudists have said. He used the internet and looked for himself.----

But it certainly isn't going to stop you from changing our minds is it. grin

----Yes Jesus takes away our sins if we are a Christian but thats not a liscense to sin.----

Everyone sins. I am not justifying sin. However when we do sin we should repent. However how are we sinning right now? Read the past posts and tell us how we are sinning.

---We try and live a good live not a bad one once were saved.---

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

----Casual nudity was not mentioned in the Bible after the fall. What you are saying is all pics of topless and nude people unless they are in some pose makes it non nudity as is perfect.----

And there are some verses that show nudity as perfect. Let's not forget Job Ch1 vs 21 of the KJV of the Bible, when he says "Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord."

Wow it looks like Job didn't have any fear of nudity or the idea of returning to Heaven naked. Ecclesiastes repeats this verse.

---The thing about the prophets going nude (Isaiah 20)In the end of the 3 years he got redressed. Casual nudity was not part of it. It was for a sign and it may have not even been around mixed company we dont know. It mentiones in verses below it in the same chapter as this was a sign of shame. They wanted to make the captives ashamed.---

But don't you think the Lord may have been having Isaiah do it out of humility. Yes slavery could be very humiliating. Hence that is probably why the Lord was having Isaiah walk around naked. But humility isn't a terrible thing. Humility can lead to one being humble. And we are supposed to be humble before the Lord, not prideful. The Lord certainly knew what he was doing when he had Isaiah walk naked.

What about Saul. 1st Samuel 1924 reads "And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the aprophets•?"

Besides I am still firmly convinced that Jesus was naked when washing the feet of his disciples. As for Peter being naked on the boat, it doesn't say anything about him being ashamed to be naked in front of Christ. I have actually read other translations of the Bible (that are supposed to be more accurate) that don't portray Peter being ashamed of naked at all. He got his robe on probably out of excitement.

Now remember there are two different words for nudity in the original Hebrew Bible. One shows nudity as sexual relations, the other more innocent. Don't get the two mixed up.

Clothing has also been used to symbolize shame in the Bible. Check out these verses.

Job 8:22 They that hate thee shall be clothed with ashame; and the dwelling place of the wicked shall come to nought.
Psalm 109:29 Let mine adversaries be clothed with ashame•, and let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle.

There are other verses as well like that. So clothing itself can be a metaphor for shame. So becareful with your reasoning.

---I have read your articles and I posted a link going against your articles in the first post.

I even read on your own site of a wife leaving her husband because of nudity. Also of a church cutting off some people from being involved in the church after they found out they were nudists.---

It's sad how judgemental some members of a church can be. It's almost pharisee like. However maybe the husband did make some mistakes, and could have really reasoned with is wife. We aren't perfect.

---It says in the Bible to put down every hindrance and run the race set before you. Nudity is a hindrance and you can not even deny that. Not everybody does it(really quite few in america and its not even universal in europe) and so people look down on a nude man or woman. The first thing they think of when they see a nude man or woman is what a slut or such. So people look down on nudists espicially the church. Again its a hindrance for that reason.---

They LOOK DOWN on nudists in the Church. Boy, looking down on someone is awfully harsh. That's what the the Pharisees did. Instead of looking down on someone, we should try to left them up. And thinking they are a slut or such, talk about judging. If the church you attend is like that, I am glad I don't attend. I would rather go to a church in which people try to lift me up, instead of putting me down.

---We all sin. Nudity can cause lust. Some say it doesnt after a bit naked around others you just come to see everyone has a body and its no big deal to see them naked. Really it is a big deal. Men and women are attracted by the bodies of each other. They want to see them naked and when you just go naked they get to see them naked all the time. That does not mean there is lest lust or that it helped bring down the crime rate. Instead of having to rape someone they can just go to there beach and look at all the naked people they want.---

From personal experience from going skinny dipping in mixed genders, I wasn't there to look at the naked people. I was there to enjoy the sun on my skin, and the water on my body. I was there to enjoy the way God made me.

Another thing, you say nudity can cause lust. I don't think it can, but I think the persons heart and his/her mind can cause lust regardless weather the person is nude or not. Most people I know say that people who dress immodest are far more erotic than a fully nude body. Nudity doesn't draw any attention to one part of the body, whereas immodest clothing and neon bright bathing suits do. And yes I have met plenty of men who lust after fully clothed women. Nudity in and of itself isn't sinful. Pornography is. But pornography and simple nudity aren't the same thing. Pornography is meant to arouse. Pornographic pictures, books, and movies can be done with fully clothed people, whereas it is possible to have fully nude people who don't act the least bit pornographic.

---Nudity cannot be casual and just plain nude without any problems. Sin caused this to be. Before adam and eve did not know they were naked. There was not lust they just saw each other naked and did not think of each others bodies as anything more than there own. But after the sin they covered. Then God gave them clothes. God would not have given them clothes if he did not want us to cover our private parts.---

Yes one can be plain nude without any problems. Little children are especially comfortable with being nude without any problems. And Christ said one must be like a little child to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.

---Its not a culture based thing or should not be. The Bible is never out of date and it tells us what is right and wrong. It shows that public nudity is not right. It shows it to be shamefull. And we are to cover our private parts.

I have even heard of people saying they are christians going to nude beaches and having sex out in the open at night but others may have been around.

The Bible says to even stay away from the appearence of evil. People look down on people who just go nude. They consider it slutty and wrong.---

Considering simple nudity slutty and wrong, sounds like the wisdom (foolishness)of man. And like I said, the looking down instead of lifting someone up is a pharisee trait. And if you want to avoid the appearance of evil, you might as well lock yourself inside and never come out. Because we are surrounded by it. Strangely enough, one of the few times I wasn't surrounded by the appeance of evil was at a family nudist event. Everyone there used clean language, didn't take the name of the Lord God in vain, didn't treat anyone with direspect, nor did they tell diorty jokes. This nudist environment was one of the few times I wasn't surrounded by evil.

---Another thing to think about. Nudity would not even be clean for everyone to do now days. Like women things and sweat and not cleaning the rear and private parts. Like sitting on a roller coaster ride yuck they thought of peoples tales being on it and you sitting on it. I guess germs are also part of the fall and so it would not even be clean. In the Bible it talks about when women go through the cycle every month that you would be unclean if you touch

Therefore I desire that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. I Timothy 2:8-10---

Like Boyd said, we sit on towels.


---[1 Timo. 2:8-10]

Notice how it said apparel. Modesty means to cover the parts that are considered private. It did not say no clothing it said clothing. There was no "lack of clothing is fine as long as everyone else is naked" in the verse.

This site has a nice read.
http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVstudies/GrowingUpInTheLord/Boys/10ProperAttire.htm---

Uh, notice Timothy didn't say anything about the body being sinful or nasty. He was talking about modest clothing as in not dressing up too fancy. He was talking about simple clothing, instead of wearing rich fancy clothing. I wonder why. Perhaps those that wear fancy clothes can cause others to COVET.

--The Bible shows we are to cover up. Even when the angels are mentioned they were mentioned with robes on and not nude.---

Those robes helped show they were angels. It still doesn't condemn nudity.

---Mr Boyd im not against you or any other nudist. I do not approve of public nudity because of what the Bible says. I do not want to see others naked anyways. I would not take a shower even in a all boys room. Nudity should be reserved between you and your wife privately and not around any family,kids or strangers.

I wont be coming back here or any other nude or topless site. I dont want to be tempted to look at porn pics of naked people. One day I will have a wife and we can see each others bodies in privacy of marriage.

Have a good day everyone!---

I'm not against you either. However I wish you wouldn't accuse us of being a porn site. What is sooo pornographic about this site? I am confused. There is nothing pornographic about this site.

Tell me something. Do you believe God is a pornographer? I ask because it is God that created the human body. He marvelously crafted us. He made us beautiful. We are his greatest creations. God is certainly not a porngrapher. I bet God sees you nude a lot.

 
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RalphVa
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The ole 1 Tim 2 thing again.

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June 19 2006, 4:05 AM 

Really really read 1 Tim 2. The modesty that Paul is talking about is almost entirely about not making a big deal out of your wealth. It's written mainly in the same realm as his scripture in Corinthians about Christians bringing feasts to the meeting while others had nothing to eat. The ones bringing the feasts were showing off what they had. This is the main thrust of 1 Tim 2.

I've heard 1 Tim 2 used to say that teenagers shouldn't wear shorts or swim suits, etc. It's not there! It's about not being immodest in showing your wealth, in showing that you think you're better than others because you can afford decorations for your body and very expensive fabric for your clothes. There's no mention of how low the neckline plunges nor how high the hem line goes.

Paul knew about the nude olympics. He never said a word against them. Also, never a word about use of the public (nude) baths that were all over every Roman world at that time.

 
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Jon-Marc
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Does God Ever Command Anyone to sin?

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July 5 2006, 1:17 AM 

What a foolish question, and yet those who say that non-sexual social nudity is sin is saying that God commanded Isaiah to sin when He commanded him to walk barefoot AND naked (Isaiah 20) for three years while preaching. Yes, it was meant as a sign to the people, but that doesn't change the fact that either God was commanding Isaiah to sin, or maybe there are actually times when nudity around other people other than one's spouse ISN'T sin. The only times the Bible speaks of sinful or shameful nudity is when the nudity is sexual between relatives or forced on others against their will. Otherwise the Bible is silent on nudity.

I believe, as many Christian naturists do, that God didn't clothe Adam and Eve because He was offended by their nudity or that their bodies suddenly become sinful, but that He clothed them because He was casting them out of a perfect environment into a harsh, cruel and cursed world with many perils to the body. The Skin coverings were meant as PROTECTION and NOT because their bodies were now offensive and sinful. Adam and Eve covered themselves with leaves in a feeble effort to hide from God because of their sin of disobedience. They had been naked before God and unashamed. What was different? The fact that they had SINNED in their disobedience in eating the fruit. Being naked wasn't their sin since they had been that way since creation.

I thank God that social nudity has freed me not only from the body shame I felt, but also from an addiction to porn. Nudism doesn't CAUSE the addiction, but I know it can CURE it! I live full time in a nudist resort, and I daily worship and praise God for blessing me and allowing me to live here. I have no such thing as "lust". Seeing nude people doesn't cause lust. Revealing clothing will do that however. Nudists look at a human body and see beauty. Non-nudists look and see filth. Which one ahs the dirty mind?

 
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Schuyler Smith
(Login wakipinuu)

Re: reply back

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June 19 2006, 11:22 PM 

---Mr Boyd im not against you or any other nudist. I do not approve of public nudity because of what the Bible says. I do not want to see others naked anyways. I would not take a shower even in a all boys room. Nudity should be reserved between you and your wife privately and not around any family,kids or strangers.


All I can say is that if you reside in the USA, have fun in gym class.

 
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Daniel
(no login)

Bla, If you have really read this forum.....

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June 23 2006, 2:36 PM 

...then you would know of my condition and have read the dialog with Sigurd. So I'm going to give you an oppertunity to explain logically why my creator has allowed what health professionals would call a disease, (something I take exception to) and as the best treatment to be what you would concider a sin?

I assume that you have read about it and ask why you didn't address it in your posts? Surely you knew that I would ask you about it?

Daniel

 
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bornnude
(Login bornnude)

"American Brand of Christianity"

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June 19 2006, 6:17 AM 

Being American and Christian I feel that I can also be somewhat introspective...

What we have been seeing from Bla is typical of the American view of Christianity...

1) I am right and will steamroll through at all costs
2) I don't need to research the truth because my pastor gave me the information and his interpretation of the Bible is obviously right.

It could, however just be the typical spammer ploy...

Fire one over the bow and see who scatters.

I must compliment Boyd's regulars, however. After a rather scathing post, most of the replies have had a whole lot of "love" wrapped up in them.

 
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bornnude
(Login bornnude)

Dude....

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June 18 2006, 6:53 AM 

Check out the facts that we present here before unloading the M-16's on us....

You may not participate in this world as a nudist (that's alright).

See http://www.network54.com/Forum/83405/message/1150634820/A+couple+of+other+things+of+note for my comments on your websites....

If Christian Naturism = the Liberated Christians, I would be concerned too... From what I read on their site, they are using Christ's liberty for sinful lusts.

If you are using them to characterize me, you are sorely mistaken.

 
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Greg C
(Login greg_pc)

The real shame...

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June 18 2006, 4:48 PM 

The real shame is that people, usually (so-called) Christians, are so quick to judge and condemn. Even worse is the fact that they do so without getting their facts straight, or without knowing what they're talking about. They often judge us based only on what they themselves experience, and not on the truth. For instance, this contributor admitted that he struggled with lust when seeing others nude, and he admitted that if that is the case, then it must be true for everyone (when it is not).

If he had really researched Christian naturism, then he would know that the material he presented here has been discussed in depth countless times by us (naturists). In fact, Fig Leaf Forum already addressed The Marriage Bed article in depth. I have personally addressed this article several times myself, and so did The Naked Truth Naturists newsletter.

Another thing that is a shame is the fact that these people not only try to use the same (faulty) logic, but they also use the same approarch. For instance, in this case, no real name, no way to contact him personally, and basically throwing stones and running (maybe he doesn't have the depth of understanding that he needs in order to discuss it in depth and he knows it).

I guess I am not saying anything new, but maybe he'll read what I've said and realize he is not the first (and won't be the last) to attack us. Hopefully, he'll see that tactics are not Biblical or Christ-like. Ideally, he would give us a chance to show him how his ideas are likewise not Biblical or Christ-like.

As it is, I have dealt with these kinds of people a lot over the years, and I have learned a lot. I have learned that these discussions rarily, if ever, lead to either side winning the other over to their way of thinking. In the end, both sides usually just agree to disagree. I have learned that it can be a big waste of time, too. For instance, as I somewhat followed the discussion with Sigurd, I realized that is was like a diversion that kept us from moving on to more important matters. In fact, since I have dealt with critics quite a few times, I could have responded, but I purposefully didn't because I do not have time to waste on people like this who think they know something, who are unwilling to logically examine the facts, and who only want to judge and/or condemn. At the same time, who knows how you might influence another?

Ok. I'm done ranting. I just thought I'd add my 2 cents this time.

Boyd, I join you in challenging our new critic to examine our (reading) material before judging us. Thank you for linking to my web site (at http://www.geocities.com/greg_pc/). Additionally, I welcome any personal correspondance.

Greg C

 


 
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Bla
(no login)

hi

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June 18 2006, 5:35 PM 

Read my newest post and I tell you more. I have read the fig leaf forums thing and it still doesnt justify nudity.

Goodbye

 
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Greg C
(Login greg_pc)

Justify nudity...or clothing/shame?

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June 18 2006, 9:23 PM 

You offered a typical and expected response. As I might have expected, you changed the context, which in turn changes everything. When I said that we had addressed all the issues you raised already, I was not saying that we did so in order to "justify" nudism/naturism. In fact, quite the opposite. We address the issues because you are the one coming to us trying to justify clothing and shame. You are the one arguing that we need to wear clothes all of the time. We merely say you are wrong, and we try to prove how so...even when you refuse to listen.

In spite of that, I am glad to see you decided to stick around. Hopefully, you won't be as narrow-minded and judgemental as most who attack us.

Greg C

 


 
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Jon-Marc
(no login)

Justify Nudity? Why? It's NATURAL!

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July 5 2006, 1:30 AM 

I don't understand this thing about JUSTIFYING nudity. What is more natural than nudity? It doesn't NEED justifying. Clothing certainly isn't natural, or we would be born wearing it, or covered with hair like animals. I often tell people that I live in a nudist resort, but I DON'T try to justify it. I just thank God that He allows me to live here COMPLETELY free from ALL shame! Praise be to our GREAT God!

 
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Laura
(no login)

Nudity

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June 18 2006, 6:53 PM 

Hi, I don't know what your name is...it would be nice to have at least a first name to call you by. Anyway, I just wanted to reply to your previous posts about nudity and the Bible. Hopefully you will at least read this.

First of all, I am a 23-year-old Christian woman. I am a naturist at heart although I haven't been able to go to a resort or any social activity nude, yet. I do enjoy being nude in my apartment and have found that it gives me great joy and even provides me with a stronger relationship with God.

Also, I see that most of the scriptural quotes that you are using come from The Message. The Message can be speak from a good point of view at times, but overall, in my experience, seems to have a somewhat hostile tone to it. Try comparing different translations of the Bible for a better overall meaning to passages that you are quoting. Or, if you are ambitious and have the time on your hands, pick up a Greek translation and find out the original context and meanings of each word. You will find that there are many different tenses in Greek which make each root word very different from the other forms. You might consider looking up the words that are used for nakedness as your first trial experience with this process.

As we have discussed on this forum before, fairly recently, the majority of the time when nakedness is mentioned in the Bible with a negative connotation to it, it also in context with other sins which do not necessarily always take place in the midst of nudity. Oh, and it is not a sin to be attracted to the opposite sex, even while nude. God gave us sexual desire and attractiveness, it is only in how you choose to react to it that it may or may not become sinful.

I don't know how old you are, but to me it seems as if you are in your fairly young teens. I know that you don't want to hear (or read) this, but you will find that your point of view will change as you get older. I'm not saying that your opinion will change. But, for some reason as we get a little bit older, even if it is just a few years, we seem to be able to reflect on things and see them in a different light than we had beforehand. My point of view, as well as some of my opinions, have changed quite a bit since I was 18 and 19 even. Other opinions that I have held have not changed at all, in fact, they have strengthened.

I hope that you are at least willing to agree to disagree if you are not willing to have an open mind to reasoning with us. While we are naturists, we will not try to tempt you into pornography - we are actually very much against pornography. Sexual depiction and objectification of women and men is repulsive and inappropriate - however, just because someone is naked does not mean that they are taking part in a sexual depiction of any kind, whatsoever!

God bless you and good luck finding a wife with the same mindset!

 
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