I had a coworker make the claim that since the bible says flesh is sin and can't enter heaven, we will be just spiritual "entities" after the rapture. I made the point that we are to receive our new perfect bodies during the rapture and will physically inhabit the earth with Jesus for a thousand yrs. He then asked if we would be male and female and would we have the appropriate genitals. I told him that I'd try and find out. I would research this myself but I don't even have time to even write this post this weekend. Any thoughts on this matter? Anyone know of specific scriptures that would shed some light on this? Thanks and God bless!!
There will be neither slave nor free, Jew nor Greek... all by implication ---meaning there will be equality for all.
Neither marrying, nor being married.. paraphrased.. all will be equal-- but no sexual activities -- each will be just short of the angelks, but like until them...
Not many Christians realize that "angels" is not a strictly accurate translation of this verse. The Hebrew word translated here--and only here--as "angels" is actually elohim ; now where have we heard that word before? *
"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?...Know ye not that we shall judge angels?" asks Paul in I Corinthians 6:2-3. It would seem obvious that we are not higher than the angels--yet; but Paul seems to indicate that God will raise us believers higher than the angels (although perhaps he refers only to fallen angels--demons). This would agree with the original Hebrew for Psalm 8:5.
* Note that Elohim is actually the plural form of el or eloah. It would be a worthy study, but beyond this forum's scope, to trace its usage in the Bible; usually it refers to the singular/plural Godhead, but sometimes, as in Genesis 6:1, it seems to refer to other heavenly or angelic beings, and it may well do so in this Psalm.
Lets hear some response on this one.. Some where I have heard the answer -- Boyd raised a good question. It really does not matter. The long and short of it is we have the good angels for us and the bad angels against us.
Angels are servants of God and that is all I know about them.
"Good angels" are of course, angels that God created to do his bidding, to serve God in any way he needs them.
"Bad angels" were "good angels" at one time, or so we understand it this way. Since they were good angels at one time, it would only be logical that they were created at the same time and for the same purpose as all the angels. They became the "fallen" angels that went with Satan, who traditionally was Lucifer, one of the three arch angels who served at God's throne.
How accurate this traditional story is, I'm not sure.
How many? Tradition again says around one third of the angels were taken by Lucifer to his way. So if you want to get into numbers and ratios, I would 1/3 are demons.
But it wouldn't matter if 2/3 were demons, God can still over throw them.
"Tradition again says around one third of the angels were taken by Lucifer to his way."
It's not just tradition, Boyd. "...and behold a great red dragon...and his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth...And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." (Revelation 12:3-4,9) Now, much of Revelation is symbolic, yet the symbolism is explained pretty clearly here.
Yes, I know, but a lot of tradition can go into writings as well as facts, so I lean on "tradition" rather than literal, since a lot of the bible is poetically written. But it could very well have been literal.
It wouldn't matter if ALL of the angels had turned against God and joined forces with every being that exists, has ever existed, and will ever exist to fight God. All of the untold billions wouldn't stand a chance against an omnipotent God. Many believe that satan is omipotent like God, and that we have two omnipotent beings (One good, one evil) in an eternal fight for supremacy. Nothing could be further from the truth.
God didn't create any being He couldn't control or destroy, and all of them together can do NOTHING to Him. God can destroy His entire creation the same way He created it, with His spoken word. We already know (satan knows too) that satan is already defeated. It's just a matter of when that will be. "Even so, come, Lord Jesus."
"that satan is already defeated. It's just a matter of when that will be."
That was done (past tense) when Jesus defeated Satan during his 40 days in the wilderness. And when Jesus died on the cross (humanity forgiven) and rose again the third day.
Satan lost. Live like it!!
The only ones who Satan can destroy are those who let him. In Jesus, we win every day. "Be of good cheer, for I (Jesus) have overcome the world". It was Satans throne, it is now, currently, right now, the throne of Jesus.
We do not need to wait until Jesus returns to live in his kingdom.
That is why clothing is not necessary for our salvation!
It appears that they will be very close to each other..
No I can not prove it -- because I am not a biblical scholar -- but there appears to have been some test which all angels had to pass to stay in Heaven.
The central ides that a being -- or a crerature -- would share heaven with God was just too much for onew angel of the light who wanted it all for himself as the super one.
What made the one of the light madwas the other non-angelic beings would have numerous chances to make up and repent their mistakes , while the angels had just one.. They had it all and lost it... we, the lesser beings have many chances. This makes it so important to be right with God so at death --if no sooner--we can claim our inheritance. That of being in sanctyfine grace with perfection is claimable we as nudists casn do here and now when we are in the nude -- I am looking at Boyd's picture making pancakes supposedly after a very deep sleep in the natural.. qwhat a way to go.. Even while we sleep we get to enjoy this woderful gift we have of being nudists...in this life..
Boyd we need some more pictures of you as our inspiration of the buff life.. a preview of the life to come..
We may be like angels, but I think we will still look like we are now, just as Jesus still looked like Jesus when he showed up.
Yes, Mary may have not recognized him at first, until he said "Mary" and she recognized not just the voice, but the feeling and friendship of that voice.
But here is a couple of pictures:
But I'll have to admit, that one in the woods was about 4 years ago at another place and I was in a lot better shape then than I am now by evidence of my second picture!
Maybe that first one will be inspiration to me now so I need to get back to that again!
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
Great pictures, Boyd. Unfortunately, you can't go back to being 4 years younger. Of course, 4 years wouldn't make much difference for me. That would make me 56. How do you post photos like that, or are only the big-wigs like you allowed to do that. We need smileys in here so that people can tell when we're just joking like I am now.
If you have a site you can upload pictures, you can make a link to it. You can create your own web pages using geocities or other "free" sites. That is what I made my web site from.
For this forum, I just signed on and created a forum with the network54 tools.
As for smileys, use the same one you would use in other forums, a colon or semi-colon plus a "right" bracket. : + ) =
; + ) =
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
naturists do one of two things when things become cold, either they tough it out the best they can, or they get dressed. Clothing after all is for warmth.
In the beginning, God created us male and female - intentionally. If that is the way he intended things to be, why would God change his design in the future?
Furthermore, Jesus says that there won't be marriages in Heaven, but every reference to the departed in the Bible are still male or female.
I don't have time to provide scripture references now, but I will later if you want me to.
When Jesus was resurrected, he was human in his form, his body, everything, yet he is God.
He looked like a male, he was a male, is a male.
His whole body was raised, he was not "spirited away" in a rapture like state. He was fully there, complete. He was still flesh, yet still spirit.
Jesus is that bridge that brings flesh with spirit. True, flesh in and of itself cannot become spirit, but Jesus became that connection between the two.
It says that the flesh is corrupt, and by comparison, it is. But lets be careful, Jesus was in the flesh when he walked on this earth. He got hungry, he had to take baths, he could cut his finger and bleed, and probably did on several occasions. He is human and subject to the pulls of the flesh just as each one of us. The difference? He is also God.
Since his birth is not of Adam (as a father), he did not carry the "dna" of sin that Adam carried. Eve was created before the sin, not after, so she was not the "carrier", even though she was the one who first plucked the fruit and ate it and gave it to Adam. Adam was still the full responsible person in this scenario.
The laws of the Old covenant was to the males, they were responsible for them.
Jesus bypassed that by being the son of the true Father, God the Father. But his flesh came from the female, Eve. He was fully man and fully God.
That is why we need him to bring us to the Father and why we cannot be a part of the Kingdom of God without Jesus. We are just corrupt flesh.
Spiritually speaking, we are married to Christ. We are not forbidden to marry here on earth as long as we are human, but in the Kingdom of God, we are married to the Christ (no, don't carry it too far folks).
The Song of Solomon is a story that is put into the bible to show the analogy of God and his people. Jesus said we men should love our wives as Christ loves the church, another analogy.
Story after story in the bible shows how we should relate to God. Marriage is the number one analogy. That is why God hates divorce! It reminds God of the permanent separation of humanity from God. It should remind us too.
Will we have sexual organs? I have no idea, but from what we read in the bible, it really doesn't matter. That is an earthly desire that is rather moot when we are in the presence of God doing far greater works that will make anyone forget all about these earthly pleasures.
I would not go so far as the gnostics who try to deny the flesh to the point of hating it and doing more harm than good. They are the ones who tried to hide the body in shame. Their way of salvation was not through Jesus by humble submition and admittance that we are flesh and are not capable of salvation. Their way was through knowledge, the smarter they are though bible study and prayer, along with fastings, self sacrifice, and other works of the flesh, they will be saved and have a higher position. Gnostic means knowlege, usually obtained by your own hard work of research, study, burning the midnight oil. Going to public forums to debate over heavenly things with earthly analogies.
A lot like what we are doing here, only they depended on this for their salvation, not on Christ. That is why it really doesn't matter whether or not we know if we have penises in heaven. It will not make any difference in our salvation if we know what Jesus looked like, or if Jesus really did speak in the language of King James. (He didn't, it was a joke, but you would be surprised who think he does!)
Gnosticism believes that Jesus was not really in the flesh. He really didn't die and that it would be impossible for God to come in the flesh. They think way too hard. They try to complicate things and go into endless debates. It got to the point where they went off somewhere to hide in caves.
Christians are not to hide in caves, but to mix it up in the crowd, like salt on your food. The main course is the food on the plate, not the salt. But you would miss the salt if someone took it off and hid it in cave.
Jesus was fully God and fully man, spirit and flesh. He was the one who made all flesh and he is the one who now guarantees the flesh will be "made whole" and enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Somewhere it says that we see in a glass darkly. Also "we will know what we will look like for we will become like him [Christ] when we see him as he is" (my paraphrase).
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
Jesus was resurrected physically- he ate drank, and touched other people. Hard to do as a spirit. But, He also did other things that are hard to understand a physical body doing- such as suddenly appearing in a locked room.
We will be raised physically (that's why we bury the body instead of destroying it- in faith of it's resurrection), but I've never seen it said anywhere that our bodies will be differant, just perfected, since there will no longer be any sinful nature in them.
But, like you said, that's all a distraction from the one true thing we need to worry about- our salvation. After that, it all dosn't really matter. We'll see when we get there!!
Don't let people side-track you away from you emphasizing salvation. That's the message that they need to hear first. Once they're saved, they can try and figure out all the details if they want to, but make sure that they get to know the Lord FIRST, and not get mired down in little things that don't really matter.
Well, I feel that God is powerful enough to renew my body even if its elements are spread through the Earth as ash! So bury my body or burn it or give it to medical interns to study or change it to plastic to exhibit in a museum; for the moment I won't care, and I trust that God can give it back to me "renude." Praise His Name!
lets help our brothers and sisters with an organ donation -- if at all possible
September 30 2006, 4:19 AM
Having lost therough death several beautiful friends awaiting an organ donation, I offer what ever can be harvested from my cadaver when I die.. just might be what will keep some one alive..
My engineer is awaiting a kidney. He thought there was a donor located, however the 5 tests of suitability were administered backwards and all of the first 4 were positive -- while the last test, which should have been the first, came back negative. Thus dashing his hopes.. Additionally, his brother an airplane pilot is afraid to donate for fear of his job...
Mor about our new heavenly bodies.. Where to get the info on the real language and writi
September 10 2006, 6:51 PM
When Chrisr resurrected he was in His heavenly body -- the reason that the women did not recognize Him. We are inhabiting earthy bodies which will decay now. This is wht cremation really just does not matter -- one way or another we are going to be dust after we physically die anyway.. Cremation, which had its origin in the pagan world, had a connotation of denying the resurrection. For this reason Christians were for many years cautioned against cremation -- save for war and disease..
Personally, after judging by what happens to our bodies as they become ultimately, I would like to see my body be of final use to those in need by harvesting of any usable organs..why not, for the organs are rotting anyway..
How many people died awaitng a transplant, as was the case of one of my Maronite Catholic church founding family mothers.
By the way the language Christ spoke is still in use today. It is called Syriac -- Aramaic and is spoken in Syria and Lebanon by about 50,000 prople. Its letters -- written from right to left -- are the same as modern Arabic -- which is one of its children linguistically as are Farsi of Iran and Iraq, and even Mongolian whic surprisingly is written from botrtom left up and then down.
The Syriac-Aramaic -- the western Syriac has long straight letters with a few curves and up to 40 letters in several forms -- depending upoin placement in the word -- initial, middle, or terminal. Our kids have it bad learning to write!
I have studied it at the Maronite Catholic Church in Austin. Boyd, if you so wish there is a Maronite Church in Fayettville, NC. You can get more biblical culture info on this one. I am only pointing this area out so Christians might not be taken in by made up stories such as the one wasting our un-informed brothers ands sisters today. This isx not a spiel for a particular religion -- but rather I have been a scholar and wish to inform our fellow forum members on what is legitimate and bogus. We are fighting a battle for our souls and do not need to be mis-led..
The language is available on the internet at www.learnassyrian.com -- a site maintained by the Assyrian Church of the East. It is used in the Maronite service of today -- iin the narrative of the Last Supper.. It was used in Mel Gibson's movie..
Jesus of Nazareth probably did use Aramaic for daily speech, as you mention--but He would also have known Hebrew, as most Jews who were active in synagogues would have. After all, on at least one recorded occasion and probably many more, He would have read aloud from the Hebrew Scriptures that we know as the Old Testament. He may also have had some knowledge of Greek, the common language for Roman citizens in the Eastern empire. Latin--who knows?
Just because he was fully God and fully man, did not mean he knew all languages. God does things for a purpose and Jesus grew up as a boy needing to learn just as anyone.
He would have gone through the education to learn the languages and understand his culture like anyone else. True, being perfect, he would have a better mind than the average man and probably able to learn quickly, but he was not given "shortcuts" to life either.
Has anyone ever notice that nobody has ever said that Jesus spoke in tongues? If it were necessary for salvation as some (hopefully few) people think, then don't you think that it would have been a major part of his ministry?
No, Boyd, I had never noticed any references to Jesus' speaking in tongues.
There are two equal and opposite errors the Churches tend to make regarding tongues. One is to deny the gift; the other is to make it the necessary sign of the Spirit's activity. There are too many Biblical references for tongues for me to say they can never happen today--unless we believe that the Spirit was withdrawn from mankind after New Testament times. (Hardly!) Yet I Corinthians 12 says very clearly that we should not all expect to speak to be gifted with supernatural language ability, whether human languages or some secret language; also that all the Spirit's gifts are to build the kingdom, not ourselves. "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order." (ch. 14:39-40)
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