The recent attempt by Boyd and others to establish a Christian Nudist Community reminded me of thoughts I have had on this subject. So these comments are not directed entirely at this attempt, but rather the idea in general.
In Genesis 1:28 after God had created man and woman, He said:"Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it..." From the beginning, God had an ultimate purpose for man and that was to fill the earth with people who worship Him.
In Genesis 11 we find the account of the Tower of Babel. In verse 3 it says: "Then they said to one another, ""Come,let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly."" They had brick of stone, and they had asphalt for mortar. And they said, "Come,let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth."
The problem here is that God wanted the whole earth to know Him and worship Him, but this group found a place they liked and wanted to stay. By using baked bricks, they were intent on a long stay. This did not please God. They built their tower as their way of reaching God and heaven, this did not please God. So God confused them, by giving them different languages. They could no longer communicate with each other, and the result was that God scattered them, v8, "So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city." God had man back on track for His purpose, to fill the earth with believers who worship Him.
I know that it is not easy living in this world. So much evil and hatred. Believers face a tough time when we try to live out our faith in a sin sick world. We have a trend, where Christian families are taking their children out of public school to home school, or go to a Christian school. I don't believe that it is God's intention for us to withdraw from the world, but go to the world with the Gospel of Christ. How will the world know unless someone tells and live their lives before the world?
If we start a Christian nudist resort, I am sure many Christian Naturists, would be attracted. I would be attracted to a place where I could be nude most of the time and in fellowship with other nude believers. But think about where the residents would come from: Florida, Michigan, California, other countries,for example. Now we have taken a Christian witness from many places and put them behind walls together. Are we not then like the people at the Tower of Babel?
Finally, when Jesus was about to ascend to heaven, His last words were,Acts 1:8, "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
Excellent post! Interestingly, I wrote the following yesterday, planning to post it here ASAP (which happens to be now).
Hello friends,
Earlier, there was some discussion about the Lord answering our prayers versus those praying against us. Since Natura isn't going to happen now, what would you say about that? Would you say that the Lord answered their prayers and not ours, and if so, what does that mean?
One thing that concerns me is, it seems as though every major endeavor like this seems to fail. I first thought about how NLI repeatedly tried to do various things but never had the success they wanted, and now we have these failed plans.
So, although I have no doubt about my beliefs or practices concerning nudity, I'm wondered where God is in all of this. Is He really for naturism, or is He against it? Is the enemy just getting the victory each time, or what? Is our timing off? Is He trying to point us in another direction? Maybe He doesn't want resorts, clubs, etc. specifically for or about Christians, but He wants us mixing and mingling with those who need Him. Who knows? So many questions.
I think He is definitely in Christian naturism. Just look at how our numbers keep growing. I just find myself wondering about our situation. And I admit, I kind of got started on this by wondering why my wife and I cannot seem to reconcile our differences. I mean, God is capable of helping us doing that, but it hasn't happened. He's capable of changing either one of our minds or both, but He hasn't. So, as Christian naturists, including myself, struggle to move forward, often unsuccessfully, I find myself wondering, what the Lord is trying to accomplish? I know He ultimately wants to develop our character and our relationship with Him, but beyond that, what's up?
As I told one friend, I personally care less how society or fellow believers see us, and more about whether I'm staying in step with the Lord or not, because staying in step with Him is the most important thing. Maybe I'm merely expressing my personal struggle to find my way and my place, but I do see how Christian naturism struggles similarly in general.
You and many of us have had these exact same concerns.
One brought up the validity of having a resort, comparing it to the Tower of Babel.
First of all, we were not building this to draw ourselves closer to heaven, trying to build a special name for ourselves, in place of God. Many towers were made since then, most to other gods.
What were we trying to do? Establish not only a home resort, but a place where we can allow Christian naturists to be Christian. We were not going to isolationists, cutting ourselves off from the world. No man is an island, no man stands alone.
We were going to be witnesses in the community and an outreach to those who need special services. We were not going to shut ourselves off and thumb our noses to the world. God would not stand for that. The last thing we needed to do was to look "cultish".
However, that plan has not failed. It may not be in Belton, then again, we have not ruled out Belton 100%.
We have new plans that will start us off with a "non-landed" club type environment leading to a landed club with a wider and stronger support than we had.
Our first ministry is to the people of the naturist community, specifically the Christains here. Next, is to support these Christian naturists in their clothed community. We end up by our support and example, reach the non-Christian naturists, whome we wanted to reach in the first place.
We also support and reach out to our clothed bretheren in our churches and communities.
There was a lot more to this Belton community than the average public knew. We were just trying to get the ground work done so we can get our foot into an area like this.
Greg's question and concern was, is God really supporting our naturism in the first place?
Often God works with us in strange ways. God answers prayers according to your faith. God is not worked up over whether one person is a naturist and the other is not. What God is concerned with is how we react to it.
It does seem that the naturist always has to "give in" to the demands of the misunderstanding person. They seem to have the physical law on their side and they have no problem whatsoever making demands that are literally, relationally destructive.
When people do not want to reason, fear is the first thing that shows up. Of course, you cannot tell that to this person, any more than you can tell that to Adam and Eve, who felt justified. "Of course we are afraid, we are supposed to be!, You should be too" is the expected answer.
God's reasoning and mans reasoning is not just two worlds apart, they are in opposite universes!
So we plan to start something different, and hopefully, carry out our plans in the mean time to create that nice resort we all want. But will that resort be only for Christians? No, of course not. First, we are reaching out to the world, and second, we need the financial support of others as well.
So keep with us, join us, pray for us, or do all the above. But we will not be ignored.
BTW, I am working on getting the CNC (Christian Nudist Convocation) started back up again!
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
It is sad that all the hopes for the resort at Belton did not go forward as desired. I do know that other naturist clubs/resorts also face exactly the same hostility from the commuity. I happen to be a member of one such club that has been locked in legal battles for years with the county. This has radically deminished all the potential that could have otherwise been realized.
I am not convinced that hostility toward naturism is in some way God's judgment against naturism, or any particular location for a club. I'm not convinced that the opposition from other Christians is anything more than kneejerk reactions. I would note the words of wisdom from the great theologian, Garth Brooks, "Thank God for unanswered prayers." Who knows? I'm not convinced that the opposition of a spouse says anything from God about the appropriateness of naturism. He does however, care a lot about spouses honoring each other in the bond of love.
As I recall, Jesus offended his audience by noting that their fathers had killed the prophets. I also note that Jesus was killed as were most of the apostles, not to mention over two hundred years of intermittent persecution by Rome. That there was opposition isn't proof of God's disfavor in any of these cases. I do suspect that those involved got sick and tired of all the harrassment, but they kept going. Didn't Jesus warn us about this?
I would say that if there is anything to learn it's that you shouldn't try to locate right next to a town, but that's no guarantee either. Given the nature of the South--and a lot of other places, being upfront about your purpose does not gain you any favor at all. I hope the non-landed approach succeeds in gaining the numbers you need to try again. Michael
But funny thing is, it wasn't the county or the people who stopped it! In fact, the last encounter with the public was hardly an encounter at all. It was very disappointing to the news media because a "Geralto" type fiasco didnt' flair up, it was not only peaceful, but a great QA session that ended with everyone satisfied!
So what hit the fan? Bill Martin pulled out because of disagreements with the team that was asked to carry it out! Period. He was dogged by his accusers in Florida that got us mixed up in their dog fight because he was associated with us. We asked them to back out and leave us alone because Bill was only an advisor, not a member of the board! Bill got mad and told us that he wants to be a member of the board even though he told others as well as us that he was only an advisor. With all this mix up, back and forth frustration, we told him if he keeps threatening to take his money out, then by all means, do so.
So it was the naturist community that dragged us down, not the clothed community! We knew we were going to get opposition from the county, city and or people. But not within!
Bill pulled his money and his support out within two days after we got this great news! We cut ties with him, and we'll do it again, only this time with lessons learned.
However, we discussed this amongst ourselves and decided that God may very well have answered out prayers about this as well. We asked that it was God's will that we be down there. I specifically asked "If it is not your will that we be down there, then please pull us out quickly, not let us spend all this money and time". And he did. Did it hurt? You bet. Poor "happy2beadam" and his wife were disappointed no end. I told him, "Good thing you didn't go down to see the property, you would have been bawling your eyes out!"
But we move forward with more determination than ever. Gods will be done!
So lets not continue to cry over this or to feel we have been "persecuted". Of course we'll be persecuted, we expected that. But it will be done.
In a week, we'll probably have a whole new outline and plan come to focus and when it happens, it will be fast! And it will probably be slow too, since God likes to take his time (If a day is like a thousand years, look out when God says "allow me a day to get it done")
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
...that it was Bill Martin's involvement that God needed to address. Mr. Martin has become a lightning-rod for the controversy surrounding Christian naturism, and your report, Boyd, about his interactions with the Belton project suggests that he has some control issues and that perhaps he has brought on much of the controversy himself. If he acts in such a way as a mere "advisor," what would he have done as a board member?
(Please: I'm not saying that his Florida opponents are justified in their methods either. I suspect that, if I knew all the facts, I would say with Mercutio, Romeo's friend, "A plague on both your houses!" )
Well, he's gone, and I don't think we should try to bring him back, but rather to see how we might do this thing without his capital, or with somebody else's.
Re: Perhaps we should consider another possibility...
November 10 2006, 9:08 PM
Well, if you know anyone who is going to sign a mortgage note for over $1,000,000 and not exercise control, let me know. Even a bank that lends you money controls much of your activity.
Florida Naturists not in opposition to a Christian Naturist Resort
November 25 2006, 10:40 AM
The residents of Hudson Florida are not in opposition to a Christian Naturist Resort. We are in opposition to the tactics of Bill Martin only! He has not acted like a Christian to us. How can one start a Christian Naturist resort and not act like a Christian to the residents and property owners in the exisitng park and to the neighbors of the park? That does not make good sense.
You all are entitled to believe what you want about us, and we have been very bitter at times, but put yourselves in our shoes. Would you allow a man to come in and force you off your property? Would you allow a man to come in and try to force you to pay him for his endeavors and work that has never happened? Would you allow a man to continue to sue you with frivilous law suits? Would you allow a man to keep you from accessing your property? If so, then I guess you will never understand our opposition to Bill Martin.
Bill Martin hasn't even met with any opposing residents on the Florida Park for over two years now has he had any communication with them. He has met with some residents who are supportive; who have decided to leave the Park.
He sent one letter to the Park members saying only:
1. The covenants of the Park required social nudism.
2. Eavery lot owner had to be a member of the Park.
3. Membership required the payment of appropriate dues.
4. CCI planned to improve the park pursuant to current county and state standards and bring in public water and sewer and some paved roads. It also suggested what the builders had given us as approimate costs.
5. It included an application for membership in the Park
6. It suggested that if there were persons unable to pay bills or costs, they should set up a meeting with us.
This is from memory --- this doesn't really belong here. If you have the letter postif somewhere else (without editing). My attorney has all of my files.
Bill Martin seems to want it one way if he is the lender and another way if he is the borrower.... but both ways in his favor only. The Bill Martin demand to control everything and everybody does not seem to have worked in either case.
A lot of people have left Bill Martin ... I wonder if they were all to get back together without Bill Martin how much leverage and capitol they would have collectively to make a start ... I bet there would be the long awaited Christian Naturist property.
Michael Thompson has made it his profession to attack Bill Martin. He claims one thing regardng demands from Bill Martin; yet the letter he receives is actually posted on Naturist Chistians.
He has never paid a penny to keep up he Florid Naturist Park in violation of the covenants and the State law.
He has never received a building permit from the County for any work he has done - all in violation of the county code.
His bacground is very questionable - he claims he father was a multi billionaire from Seattle - yet he lives in a home worth uner $20,000.
I beg your indulgence for just one more matter regards Bill Martin from me ...
I, and several others have spent hundreds of hours in the last 3 years and thousands of dollars of our own money to commence clean up on this Park. We have cleaned it up. We just rebuilt the club house at our own expense in time and money. Bill did nothing.
Bill has not posted all the letters I received from him demanding money from me. I am a nudist and there is nothing illegal or wrong with paying cash for my home and other property that I have purchased in the Park.
I regret all the information that has come to light about Bill ... we all wish it had been different, but he only has one person to blame.
Wishing all a very Merry Christmas and the best in the new year.
Clearly people post based on feeling and rumors without checking out. I have always told you the truth. At this time Trails_Cout is intimately involved as it the Chairan of this corporation.
Is that why you told your lawyer in Federal court a falsehood and he had to correct a document provided to the court? Your own Attorney said that it was submitted based upon your statements, and when he did more research, he found out it was incorrect.
If you lived your life like you say you do, why do so many people detest you, including the two very Christian elderly women you harrassed on the telephone and by having another attorney send them a letter based on false information provided by you. They are too decent or too financially incapable of taking you to court over that one, but they should! You know that, and that is why you do it! Sad, very sad that you do not care.
Persecution in the context of the notion for a Christian Naturist Park is a two edged sword here. Truth being one side and untruth being the other side.
The residents of the Old Florida Naturist Park support the notion of a Christian Naturist Park. We know very little about the effort made by Boyd and Gwin, and others with them, in Belton, South Carolina but we support what they were/are doing.
The common denominator between us is Bill Martin.
The test is between truth and untruth. Bill Martin did not tell the residents of the Old Florida Naturist Park, or his own supporters the truth. He also mislead us about the project in Belton, South Carolina.
It is also very clear that the operators intended for Belton. South Carolina were not told the truth about the residents and neighbors in Hudson, Florida. Is it any wonder matters unfolded as they did.
Let me make it simple for everyone ... where Bill Martin goes and lies in our name, we will be ... where Bill Martin goes and tells truth in the Lords name we will NOT be.
I support Boyd and Gwin ... my hats off to them. If anyone hears anything else, it will be a lie.
Again there is a significant mistake. Bill Martin has never to this date pulled his money out of the project. I am working with others who wish to develop it and no decision has been made. I have had telephone conversations with the President of Small World, just the other day from Kiev, Ukraine and this afternoon from his home after he arrived back in the States.
I and another have made one trip to Anderson and expect another before the end of the year.
Four former NCF board members wish to be involved and if it proceeds that is fine with me. I thik that is about half of your board members. I understand that virtually all board members resigned. I have also stated that I had no problems if Boyd and Gwin wished to fill the original positions planned for them. We have also had interst from a ministerial student *youngest board membe of CCI) who wishes to be invloved - one who I think very highly
This leaves a difficult position if I and others do not proceed as you obligated yourselfs for bills totalling about $15,000 which will need to be paid.
I have had signifiant encouragement from Anderson not to withdraw and much support and it seems that we are supported by a margin of8-2. The President of Small World has no problem with naturists.
It also seems that the Mayor consulted with his legal counsel who had aadvised that they couldn't prevent us - and the Mayor pledged to abide by the law.
Subsequenty we learned that there was a SC Supreme court decision against Greenville in 1997 upholding nuridy and unlike Florida counties or communities couldn't override it.
All of this is good discussion. What I offered was in no way saying that I doubted God's involvement, but it was mostly meant to be rhetorical, going to extremes, considering every possibility, all to get us thinking. I admit, I have had my doubts in the past, but it was mostly a result of frustation, dealing with a wife who totally misunderstands and doesn't even want to understand.
Anyway, the bottom line is that we stay in step with where the Lord is leading, regardless what happens, what others think, say or do. And that is where I question. If not "here" (wherever that is), then where, Lord? If not in this way, then how? Etc. This has been a real challenge for me personally, given my situation, especially my desire to do more, but being unable to because of circumstances beyond my control.
Greg, I fully appreciate and understand your situation! I feel that so much, it's a bit scary at times.
But Gwin is beginning to see the light, and I am sure that if you continue to LOVE your wife, be patient and kind, she will at least understand your situation as well.
"Love your wife as God loved the church."
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
I do not believe that God has anything against a Christian naturist community. There are so few Christian naturists compared to all of the naturists that I stay mostly by myself since I have nothing in common with most other naturists. It would be great to live in a community where I can actually talk about the Bible and not hear the name of God and Jesus Christ as cuss words as I do here. Even those who are willing to talk about God and the Bible can't seem to refrain from using profanity.
It's a language that I consider very immature and something that only people with weak minds and limited vocabulary need. I quit using profanity when I was 16 and outgrew it mentally and emotionally.
My belief is that God has a place for you where you won't have the opposition. It will happen if it's His will as I believe it is. Of course, that could just be wishful thinking. Just because Natura failed here and in Belton doesn't mean God isn't in it. It just possibly means that He has something else planned. Patience and pray are in order.
Thats the attitude we need here!
We need to ask God how HE wants it done!
I am asking the Board that we remove the "Natura" name out of the project since it does belong to Bill and we need to fully disassociate ourselves from that project.
Natura is still in Florida and now that he is not scattering his efforts accross the country, maybe he will get the Florida effort under way after all. I sure hope God blesses him and gives him what he needs in life to complete his dream.
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
September 25 I received an angry email from Bill. I just read it yesterday since I no longer use that email address. He found a post I made in some forum. I'm in so many forums that I don't know where I posted it. It might have been here.
I complained about him forcing Dan Bellows to move back to New Yprk because Bill promised him a salary that he never got in all the months he was down here trying to help build Natura. Dan used the excuse that it was because of family problems, but Dan was my friend and I know the truth. Bill accused Dan of misusing funds. I have no idea what funds that would be since Dan had to get food from the food bank because he had no money to buy it. I bought him food once and so did others. Dan's relatives had to send him money to travel back to New York since he couldn't afford it otherwise.
He said that I was wrong that Natura wasn't going to happen. I don't care what it's called, but I like the idea of a Christian naturist community and want to see it happen. However, I'm going to be more careful who I get involved with now.
John-Marc. You do not begin to have all the information and I am not going to use the board to publicize any problems. I have gone a long way to help people including putting my own signature on your Recreational Vehicle because your cedit owuld not allow you to buy it.
I suggest you try to get all of your facts before you start publicly criticizing anyone. It seems that anyone who has saved and has a reasonable nestegg is to become the victim of slander and attacks from many whom I and my famly have tried to help.
Everyone you know eventually removes themself from you (except for Alice - hey that is a line in an Arlo Guthrie song!). Why is that? Are you bragging about helping people? Is that a Christian way to be? Not really.
Oh, in regard to your nestegg, come on Bill, where did you WORK to get that nestegg? Jacaranda in Sarasota County Florida? The eldery care facility in Pennsylvania, where the town says you are not allowed to enter? Can you name one legitimate Company or government agency where you actually WORKED and for how long? Tell us where you received a salary other than through your "Christian organizations"?
I'll just bet he beats around the bush on those questions and starts blaming Ray Cotton or someone else. Why don't you just answer them?
Did you know that the FBI investigates religious organization such as yours?
I developed two outstanding facilities in Montgomery County, PA and yes I made sufficient funds to send my children to college and to private schools and to put significant funds in savings.
From whomever you got any word that I'm not allowed back in the town (actually they hae townships) is absolutely nuts - this has come from Mike Thompson of whom I know no responsible person who has any faith in him.
The project [adult care center]that Bills says I falsly refered to is named Waverly Heights and it is located in Pennsylvania. If you wish the address I will get it for you.
Any information that I diseminated about Bills involvement there was taken directly from Waverly Heights own historical Brochure, and Court transcripts on the subject taken during Court proceedings in Sarasota.
Anyone can request for that Brochure and I suggest that anyone interested in Bills business background do so.
Apparently, Bill Martin is claiming that he gave no authorization for use of a credit card he gave Dan to conduct business and has turned him into the Bank for fraudulent use of the credit card. The Bank is apparently making Dan pay back the funds.
Dan supported Bill when we told Dan what he was doing to good people but eventually saw what Bill was doing and removed himself from the situation. This is why Bill Martin attacks Dan using bank fraud. Jon Marc was right about Dan having to go to food banks and such near the end. However, Bill Martin had money to spend traveling and was able to spend his money elsewhere. Dan was left out in the cold so to speak.
Boyd, I am not sure that you want to know the entire truth about what Bill has done to people, but you really need to take the time to visit with us. We will show you documents that will surprize you. We will produce the evidence to show you what we are saying. We will introduce you to Ruth and Nannette Wynn, the two wonderful very Christian elderly ladies that Bill Martin coerced and is now harrassing. You will hear it from them.
Maybe you don't care about what has occured in Florida, but before you consider defending Bill any longer, you really should know the truth.
I am sorry if we have offended you or that you think we have defaced your message board, but we are just people trying to help the naturist community and any other people that may be taken in from falling victim. Please, please, heed our warnings. Please contact us.
You can't get your fact straight. There's an isue of a credit card and a separate bank account - none of which will be made public by myself.
Nor would I give Ray Cotton any inforation whatsoever. I doubt if he's a Christian. When another on the video said she wasn't and " thank God she wasn't, Ray Cotton express vocally his support.
Much derogatory has been said about Michael Thompson and Raymond Cotton. Also about the old Florida Naturist Park. Most, if not all originates from Bill Martin.
Our heavenly father shows us the way to truth if a person will listen. You have heard Bills side.
Should anyone be interested in the truth please come to the Park. We will put you up for the time it takes to peruse the evidence. Its all right here .. the truth. You are invited. No strings attached. Surely someone on this Board is interested in leading the way.
I am willng to continue to finish the litigation; but at 68 you know that I plan to retire and turn all matters over to others. We have already elected the new Chairman in whom I have complete confidence.
Nothing would pleae me to see most of my original plans come to fruition but they will have to do so by others.
I need to be able to be with family (children and grandchilden) more and to spen just social times with my many good Christian naturist friends (I still onsider Boyd and Gwin in that category).
Jon-Marc: "It just possibly means that He has something else planned. Patience and pray are in order.
Boyd Allen: "Thats the attitude we need here! We need to ask God how HE wants it done!"
To me, we've all said the same thing. Although I went about it the long way, going through the entire thought process, I concluded with the same point...that when our efforts don't seem to work out one way, maybe the Lord is pointing us in another direction (not away from naturism altogether, but just to do it a different way).
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