I have been following the post from anonymous and Terry. I have been in a situation as an associate pastor dealing with a lesbian couple. We welcomed them into the church, treated them like family and gave them time to turn around. Eventually, they were given a choice to either repent or move on. Unfortunately, they chose to move on. When we see them out in public we still urge them to turn to Jesus and reject homosexuality. I believe ALL sinners should be welcomed into the church and given time to recieve the gospel and repent.
Now, as far as the Bible being a book of beliefs, I disagree!
2 Peter 1:20-21 states,
20-Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21-For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
In the greek text, the word moved can also be defined as inspired. A picture of this would be a sailboat on the ocean being moved across the water by wind. It may have been a man writing but it was the Holy Spirit that told him what to write. In the course of 1500 years several different writers composed 66 books that carry the same message.How do I know that this is the right way? I go to the tomb of budah and he is there. I go to the tomb of mohommad and he is there. I go to the tomb of Jesus and he is NOT there. HE IS RISEN and he talks with me every day. I do not have religion, I have a living relationship with Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the Word! If the Word says it is wrong, I believe it is wrong. If the Word says it is right, I believe it is right. If the Word does not say one way or the other, I do not judge but work out my own convictions by the Holy Spirit. I am not on a soapbox trying to push this down your throats. Instead, I speak in love. We must have faith that the Bible is what it says it is, the inspired Word of God. Then we can have the power to witness to homosexuals and all other sinners.
I agree wholeheartedly. I wrote two works on the subject. Right now, I am writing what I am calling "God is No Dictator", about how He has given us the freedom of whether or not to follow His commandments. Here are the two exisiting works about tough love and homosexuality:
"Intolerant like Jesus"
To those who are inotlerant in the right way
Jesus taught that we are to love one another. That is the second greatest commandment. Love is more than just a feeling you have for another person. Love is also leading someone on the right path, watching out for their well being.
People say that to tolerate somebody's bad habits is to love them. If a person truly loves someone, they would tolerate their smoking, for example. I have heard the same for when it comes to others' sins. We should tolerate their sins, for it is not ours to judge, but the Lords'.
People may observe that after reading certain parts of the Bible, Jesus seemed to be tolerant. One argument for that is the fact that He associated with even the most vile sinners.
But I say no, He was not tolerant of peoples' sins. When He stopped the stoning of the prostitute, He told her to "Go, and sin no more". Sounds like intolerance to me. Intolerance of the sin, not the sinner. Jesus used love, not harsh criticism to correct people in their sin. Therefore, love is the answer, not bitter judgement. If you are harsh with someone about their sin, they are likely to be turned off by your reprimand, that they will continue in their sin.
I say, that if you tolerate someones' sin, you are telling them to continue down the dangerous path they are traveling on. Giving your teenage son a condom as he goes out on a date with his girlfriend is like saying, "Go ahead, risk contracting an STD, or getting a girl pregnant." If you truly loved your son, you would sit him down and tell him the consequences of having sex, using birth control or not.
Using love to correct someone in their sin is like turning them around and leading them onto the right path. And they are more likely to listen to you, and stay on that path.
I don't think Jesus would be tolerant when one of His sheep goes down the wrong path. That does not sound like the Jesus I know. I would not be surprised if He spelled the word intolerance L-O-V-E.
This is a story of a couple of friends,
As close as five minutes to eleven.
Their love for each other had no end.
In each other's company, they were in seventh heaven.
No one could ever separate these two,
These fellows named Stephon and Jorge.
As they went here and there they were stuck like glue.
Yes, these two pals indeed were gay.
They met in high school,
And became instant pals.
To them their friendship was cool,
They talked about everything except for sexy gals.
As their relationship grew deeper,
They began to feel for each other great love.
Weighing on their minds, their thoughts getting steeper,
Was how God was seeing them from above.
These are two men, struggling with their sexuality,
They know that God frowns on the gay lifestyle.
They always strived to live for Him and His ministry,
Yet they wanted to express their love all the while.
To them, sexual relations and marriage was not a consideration.
For they knew that such would put them under God's frown.
Yet the desires to do so caused them great tribulation.
They so wanted these desires to be disowned.
Could they ever think of living together?
Would the temptation to sin be too much?
Will they always be able to keep their desires in a tether?
Or would they lose their inhibitions at the slightest touch?
They felt that they could not resist
Getting intimate if they shared a place.
So, ideas of doing so did cease and desist.
They'd rather put a smile on God's face.
Stephon lived here, and Jorge lived there,
Close enough to see one another everyday.
With the lusting for each other acting as a snare,
Grieving the two of them as they went their way.
With the desiring of each other giving them too much to bear,
The two of them got together, and said this heart-felt prayer:
"Lord God, ruler of all things, we know that You alone are King of kings. Please rid us of our impure desires, please extinguish these unholy fires. Bless our relationship according to Your will, make this mountain be but a lowly mole hill. We desire to live for You and You alone, through our actions to others let us make it known. Keep us from straying from Your Law, as these sinful desires at us do gnaw. Bless our rising and our rest, let us never put Your love and mercy to the test. For Yours is the kingdom, the power and the glory forever and ever, amen."
Stephon and Jorge kept fervent in their walk.
Never once did they have relations with each other.
Oh yes, they did hug and kiss, and especially talk.
For the rest of their lives, they lived as brothers.
The differance between Christianity and other religions, what makes it correct and them not, is not a matter of opinion, but rather a matter of the core principle of each "belief system" (I just had to put "belief" in there somewhere...)
Christianity's core principle is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He is the ONLY way to see the Father; He came to Earth wholely human yet wholely devine, took the penalty for our sins, was crucified, and rose again, and that believing in Him is the only path of salvation. Any system of belief that does not hold ALL of these things as basic truths is not correct, and that is NOT and opinion, that is fact.
As the saying goes, we need to be open minded, but not so much that our brains fall out. I see too many people treading dangerous ground whenit comes to these things (and others), and it gives me great pause.
To "Happy" I say thank you. You are a blessing to this site.
Later
God Bless
Kevin
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
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The differance between Christianity and other religions, what makes it correct and them not, is not a matter of opinion, but rather a matter of the core principle of each "belief system" (I just had to put "belief" in there somewhere...)
Christianity's core principle is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He is the ONLY way to see the Father; He came to Earth wholely human yet wholely devine, took the penalty for our sins, was crucified, and rose again, and that believing in Him is the only path of salvation. Any system of belief that does not hold ALL of these things as basic truths is not correct, and that is NOT and opinion, that is fact.
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I'm sorry, but no it isn't. Nothing you have said makes what you said a fact. All you have done is repeat what you have been told and believe that the Bible says in regards to being a Christian. You may believe in your heart that your choice is the true way but that doesn't make it so. You have provided no real evidence that your religion is more factual than any other.
The only portion of what I stated that can be construed as opinion is the last: "Any system of belief that does not hold ALL of these things as basic truths is not correct, and that is NOT and opinion, that is fact."
Everything else about the differances between religions is true, and as for the quoted portion above, that is known by faith, and you can't really prove faith. As for the statements accuracy, we'll just have to see, won't we?
K
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
Kevin is Boyd's right hand man here on the forum. He signs on with Boyds network account so that he can help Boyd do what needs to be done here. So the given name is who it really is. It has confused many, and they both explain that every once in awhile, but maybe it's been awhile I guess.
There is an option at the bottom for those who sign in the network54 account, to include signature.
All we have to do is deselect it and the signature (with my name, avatar and sign-off quote) will not show up.
He just needs to remember to deselect it and replace my name at the top.
Kevin is here to help me watch the board for posts and attacts that need to be removed or other issues. When I asked him to help out, we had a few folks who were posting stuff that turned out to be very disruptive later after they became regular posters. So we had to monitor the forum a lot closer since then.
We do not want to have a reputation as some sites that allow bad posts to linger on and never get blocked or removed or challenged.
sometimes, if I'm out of town for a week, I would like to know someone is taking care of these things. So Kevin is in that role.
However, he also uses it to post something or make a correction to his post and forgets to remove my information.
What I can do to avoid confusion is to get Kevin a Network54 account login and give his login name the permission to do the same thing without having to log in with my name.
What say Kevin?
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
I guess I wasn't around for the earlier explanations. So as far as this site goes, Boyd is King of Diamonds, Gwin is Queen of Hearts, and Kevin is Jack of Spades? lol
Seeker,
Your name implies you are seeking and have not decided to make that choice.
One thing Christianity has in common with some religions. One God.
We have a belief that there is the One God and there is no other. That One God is the Creator of all the universe, earth, and all thats in it.
Now we cannot have several other gods running around. There are, they are false gods either by mans imagination or are demons playing "god" for their ammusement and mans distruction.
What boggles the mind and seems "foolish to man" is that God is made up in three personages. The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. How? I'm still scratching my head on that one as well. But doesn't matter at this point. Faith takes over here.
When God created man, their plan was to send the Word (the Son) to become man and unite flesh with spirit. But in the course of events, man sinned (see story of Adam and Eve). When sin came into the picture, the Word (who is Jesus) had to die for our sins, lest the whole world be destroyed, and God didn't want that.
So Jesus not only took on the role of fleshly man, he suffered and died as well. Then he was resurrected and ascended back into heaven to be at the right hand of the Father, taking us, the new creation with him.
That is what scares most people. God dying? Raising from the dead?
You say that the bible is not the source of all truth (implied by your statements) and that there may be other religions out there that are also correct.
Well, you cannot have two people saying two different things and both be correct. God is the source of all truth, not 'religion'. The bible is the place where it is all compiled, but even then, we still look to God. But God will not contradict the bible, so we don't get separate revelations from God to ignore the bible.
Kevin has to believe that what is in the bible is truth, or he would not be able to have a life that reflects his faith. He isn't going to play 'pick a belief for the week' for that would make him double-minded, lack of faith, hypocritical and without hope or a vision. Even a company doesn't change visions and mission plans week after week. Those who do have to constantly change are in for a rough non-profitable ride until they fold. We have to get on the same page and stay there.
If we say it doesn't matter which we believe, then why did Jesus die for us? Just for a "choice"? Would you allow yourself to be beaten and suffer a long tortuous death just so someone can have yet another choice among hundreds that are already out there? Why? Whats the point?
When Jesus, the creator, died, his creation "died" with him, and when he rose again, his creation was made new and whole. Yes, they continued their ways, but this time under a different regime and ruler.
His death was far more than getting caught and being killed. Everything Jesus did was choriographed into a huge picture of redemption. He willingly played the pawn in the Fathers hand and used that one pawn to defeat the king of this world, Satan.
He wasn't just a good prophet and philosopher (there were plenty of those around). He was God in the flesh, who was willing to get down and dirty with us so he can bring us back to the Father clean and whole. It was an act of Devine Love that is far greater (and sometimes silly from our perspective) than any human can understand. We are still trying to grasp the depth, width and height of His love.
Can any other "religion" claim this? Dare they try?
If God sent his only son to earth to redeem us and bring us to him, then why would he send another to preach a different gospel and do the same? If the devine Son of the Father (lived, suffered, died and resurrected) is not good enough, then mans philosophers (who wasn't willing to die for us) are certainly not.
Boyd Allen "May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."
This a big problem in our faith today! The Gospel has become so watered down it rests beside idols. But not in all churches! Paul wrote that he didn't come with fancy words but with demonstrations of power and Spirit. So their faith would be in God not man. Again, the samaritans left Simon and believed in Jesus when Phillip was powerfully used by God among them. Even Today there are churches like mine who operate in the power of the Spirit. I don't believe in the Bible because someone told me to. I believe because I have tested what the bible says and have seen the results with my own eyes. The bible said if I would ask for forgivness and make Jesus Lord, I would be free from sin. I did and have seen the change in my life. It said if I would ask the Father for the gift of the Holy Spirit He would give Him to me. I did and have received the gifts that come with Him. The Bible said I have the power to cast out demons in Jesus's name. I have done so many times. The Bible said one of the signs of believers was they would lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. I have been involved in prayer and people were healed of: brain cancer, lung cancer, liver disease, blindness, heart disease, cronic pain, suger problems, tumers, palups, lame, back pain, and even saw a woman's calf muscle grow back that she had lost in a auto accident. You see I am living what others just read about in the book of Acts (and I'm not the only one). To me Jesus is not just some hero I hope to meet one day, He is a part of my life now! Why isn't everyone like that? They can be, God will only take you as far as you will let him! Seeker, I like that name! If you will keep seeking, I hope you find the kind of relationship with Jesus like I have. The Bible says He is abundently able to do more than we can ask or even imagine. How big can you imagine? I dare you to give God a chance to show you how big He is. ARE YOU READY?????
happy2beadam
This is wonderful testimony, Adam! I pray that the Spirit of power, of love, and of a sound mind (II Timothy 1:7) will move among His people, so that the world will see and acknowledge that there are things they cannot explain except that God is, and does wonders.
