Our main theme for the CNC this year will be One in Christ.
But what do we mean by that? Is it "Jesus" alone we are at one with? Or are we refering to the Trinity?
Keep in mind that our relationship with Jesus is because of the Father and the holy spirit. So when we are in Christ, we are in the Trinity.
Just before Jesus died on the cross, he said it is finished. What does that mean?
Our whole being, creation, Adam, everything "died" when Jesus died. When Jesus was resurrected, all humanity and creation was raised with him. Now when Jesus said "If you have done these things unto the least of my bretheren, you have done it unto me", we understand that every human being that we come into contact with, we are in contact with Jesus. That is how "one" we are with Jesus.
But when we are at one with Jesus, we are at one with the Trinity, for Jesus is a part of that trinity. "I and the Father are one". Jesus said it was finished, that is, he did the whole job. There is nothing we can do to improve on it.
Look at our connection with God as a long chain. If a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, it doesn't matter how many very strong eternal chains God has, if our link is in there, then our salvation is only as strong as that one link. Too bad. We lose.
So it has to be done by God with all of the links there. We are all linked to God and to each other, with the Holy Spirit. Our links are no good. Our works are not strong or good enough.
I pray that the 2008 CNC will help us see that clearly.
Are we "one" with Jesus, at this time? Seems to me that the "bridegroom" is not with us, but has sent his comforter, the Holy Spirit, to be with us, until He is with us again.
We are "in the trinity"? This is strange language to me, and I do not recognize a scriptural principle in it. Being "in" Christ is more of a positional description, referring to the basis of our salvation, than it is a relational description. The Holy Spirit being "in" the believer is a more relational description, it seems. Believers are "to be one", in the same way Jesus and the Father "are one", but where would we get the idea that believers are one with any of the god-head? The Holy Spirit is "in" us, but we are not instructed that we are one with him, are we? I am not saying definitively that it is not there, just that it is a foreign idea to me, and strange usage.
"It is finished" - God's plan for redemption was complete.
Jesus dying: creation didn't die. In a spiritual sense, creation died, perhaps, at the fall - at least that is when death entered creation. The "death" of creation is yet to come, when the heavens and earth will pass away and Father will establish a new heaven and earth. I apologize for not looking up the verses for these ideas, but I think I am being faithful to scriptures that could be located. Hmmmm. Seems like I am admitting to a dangerous practice...
Only Jesus was resurrected. Nothing else. Creation was not renewed; all people were not resurrected, or "raised" with Him. What does that mean to you? I won't argue the point here - I don't think I could do it justice - but, some would say that Jesus did not even die for all, but just for the elect, for those who would be saved. I do not think we, at CNC, want to wrestle with calvinist and armenian issues especially.
Who would you think Jesus' "brethren" are? All of humanity? I dont think so. "...every human being we come into contact with, we are in contact with Jesus" - in what sense? Only in that they are a part of His creation, and even the earth is part of that.
"One with Jesus", "one with the trinity"? I do not follow your thinking, and I cannot think how the scriptures talk about oneness in the way you seem to be using the words. Spiritually, I guess, we are connected with Jesus, even as believers are connected with one another. But believers are to have unity *now*, are "the body of Christ *now*, whereas the thrust of scripture seems to me to point toward the future with respect to our union with Jesus - the reason we long for his appearing is that the bridegroom is not with us - that is why we needed a Comforter.
I hope, also, that CNC will help us know how much we need each other, how interdependant we are!
You asked: "Are we "one" with Jesus, at this time? Seems to me that the "bridegroom" is not with us, but has sent his comforter, the Holy Spirit, to be with us, until He is with us again"
Jesus said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you". And in his prayer, he asked the Father that we be one as they are one.
Yes, we are at one with Christ. Who else are we going to be at one with?
True, we are still human, but that is OK, since Jesus is still human too. "See? I have bone and flesh as you do"
Yet he is fully God. We have been raised up into Christ. We may not yet have the glory of Christ, but Jesus said he and the Father are one, when he was still a man walking on earth.
I am not trying to go further than we should go, but I will not limit what God can do for us.
The question is, where is our identity? The closer we walk with God, the more our identity is with God, the more we are at one with God.
Hmmm. Where does Jesus say "I will never leave you nor forsake you"? The Lord says that to Joshua in Joshua 1:5...
In John 17:11, Jesus prays to the Father, "I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name - the name you gave me - so that they may be one as we are one." So, Jesus prayed that his followers would be one as He and His Father are one. Nothing about being "one" here with Jesus, or with the Father. And Jesus plainly said He was leaving. In 16:7 Jesus says, "...It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you." So, we, the followers of Christ, are one with each other - unity among the believers is what Jesus prayed for. I am not saying that we do not have some sense of oneness with Jesus and the Father, just that the scriptures give a clear picture that we (believers and the godhead) are not together the way we will be, when the bridegroom returns for his bride, the Church.
I do not understand the way you are using the phrase "at one" - I think you are trying to emphasize something, but I am not sure what. "At one" seems like a location or position to me, whereas "one" or "being one" seems like a state of being.
Ha! I started to ask a question, then deleted it, a few sentences ago. But now I read again that you say Jesus is still Human (I agree, although His body is regenerated), and "fully God" (again, I agree). So, my question; Is Jesus omnipresent, then? (I have an opinion, but only reason to substantiate it, no verses.)
Hmmm. I just am not sure that our "identity" is based on our walk. Seems to me it is positional - either one is in Christ or not. If you are, you have a new identity, a "child of God". Period. Unity with God does not increase or diminish thereafter based on one's walk. How we, as humans, feel about the unity may fluctuate...
I am not making a literal sense of "Jesus" being in me and literally on earth in a physical way. God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) is with us. Jesus sent the holy spirit, not just to give us some miraculous powers (Those that have those powers being better?) but to unite us with each other and with God.
I am also not saying that the world has the holy spirit in them. They receive that at baptism and laying on of hands. But the holy spirit is here, and ready.
And of course, Jesus does say, "And lo, I will be with you until the end of the age".
Humanity is in Gods' hands. Satan has lost. The idea here is that God and Satan are not in a fight to win souls. Jesus completed that work nearly 2KY ago. Our job is to make disciples, that is, to help people understand and believe, and then become a disciple of Christ, rather than the disciple of the world (Satan's school of thought, which put britches on us in the first place).
All of humanity is not as "lost" as many are saying. They are putting more belief in Satan and his power than Gods' power. Jesus said it is done.
