Boyd,

Jonathan Stepp has done a good job explaining why the Trinity is important.
I am glad he went on to explain that our place in God's loving care is a consequence of God's existence as the persons of Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

And of course I appreciate Jonathan's insistence that God created us naked and of course accepts that nakedness. It is we who (sometimes) have a problem with nudity, the natural human condition.

This makes me believe that in time, hopefully in our lifetime, humanity will start to see this truth.

But the counter force that is fighting against us is the belief that all nudity outside of taking a bath (private bath) is sexual in nature. Therefore, making what God has called good, to be evil.

Christians today have more faith in the sins of Adam, than in the saving grace of Jesus Christ. Instead of teaching Jesus as the savior of the world, it is being taught that Jesus has no power over the world and that his saving grace is only for a few, and not for all. That is one reason why Christianity is not growing as it should . That is why many are becoming disillusioned about Christianity saying that we are no different than the world they left behind.

Christianity say that we are saved, yet go back and recondemn the world and even Christians for being what God created us to be, human.

Jesus, the Word, became the very flesh we condemn.

With powerful teachers like this, we can start to see minds being changed and more people accepting the true nature of Jesus Christ. He has redeemed all flesh and has brought humanity back to himself.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

The world has been reconciled, and the word of reconciliation has been given to us to let the world know.

May our nudity be seen as a sign of reconciliation and peace.

Boyd Allen

Boyd,

Wait a minute, where does the Bible say that everyone on earth is redeemed and back to right relation with God?

"With powerful teachers like this, we can start to see minds being changed and more people accepting the true nature of Jesus Christ. He has redeemed all flesh and has brought humanity back to himself".

If you look at the verse you quoted below, "reconciling" is in the present tense, an active verb, not past tense as you said in your own words.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Likewise in the passage from Colossians that you quoted, Jesus "made peace" (past tense) but "to reconcile all things" is future tense. And the only way we can take this verse to teach that all will be saved would be to ignore other Bible passages that clearly teach that not all will be saved.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Again, you say, "The world has been reconciled, and the word of reconciliation has been given to us to let the world know".

You seem to be teaching that all men are saved, they just don't know it.

You're misunderstanding him. Boyd is not saying that all men are saved because he has also said that you have to accept the salvation that God offers through Jesus. But all men have the opportunity to accept salvation if they desire it. All they have to do is repent, (turn away from their old ways and turn to a life pleasing to God, which can only be done through the power of the Holy Ghost) and believe that they have salvation through faith in God's grace because of the work of Jesus. (accepting the gift of salvation)

I think we have an issue of definitions going on here though,

"With powerful teachers like this, we can start to see minds being changed and more people accepting the true nature of Jesus Christ. He has redeemed all flesh and has brought humanity back to himself".

He has redeemed all flesh can be true and false at the same time. If flesh means flesh, then it is true, but if flesh means mans sinful nature (as is commonly used to mean in Scripture) then this would be a false statement because sinful nature is not redeemed, nor can be. But the flesh and bones of men are if our souls and spirits will only accept the gift of salvation offerd to us via Jesus, the only Just sacrifice of atonement.

It looks like to me that Boyd was speaking about flesh and bones, and you took it to mean sinful nature. It would be better to choose body than flesh when speaking about flesh and bones since flesh is synonymous with sinful nature in Scripture.

Daniel

Ramblinman asked: "Wait a minute, where does the Bible say that everyone on earth is redeemed and back to right relation with God?"

I didn't say "right relationship" with God, I said, redeemed, and if you see that Jesus did "buy back" humanity, he died for all of mankind. Having a right relationship with God is still in process, even with those who say they are in Christ.

What I wrote was:
"He has redeemed all flesh and has brought humanity back to himself.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

The world has been reconciled, and the word of reconciliation has been given to us to let the world know."
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Notice that reconciling means to settle, put to rights, bring together, square, reunite, merge, patch up (from a thesaurus) or put another way, forgive and bring back to himself. Redeem if you will.

A relationship however, is still in the works. What humanity needs to know is that they have that option, God is not that far away. God is right here and can be in their lives right now, and probably is, they just don't know it nor have they acknowledged it.

Reconciliation can only come from God first. The only way anyone can know God is that God put that knowledge of himself into that person. Forgiveness and reconciliation has to already be in process before that person can see God and repent (turn back to God).

Repentance is changing ones mind about God. Yes, it involves changing the way we live our lives, but we have to have a mindset that has repented about God first, before our lives can truly change.

As for redeeming: Back to my thesaurus, you can use cash in, cash, trade in, exchange, convert, use, buy back, transfer. Also: compensate for, make up for, make amends for, atone, redress, save. You can also add release, liberate, free, emancipate, deliver and rescue to the list. If Jesus did not do all that and more for humanity, then we are lost for sure!

And of course, there are at least two scriptures pointing that yes, Jesus did reconcile the world and has brought humanity back to himself. Whether anyone believes it or not.

Boyd

Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Basically it's saying here:
1: God, in Christ, reconciled the world unto himself
2: Did not impute their sins (decided to not hold their sins against them, called grace).
3: Committed unto us, or put another way, gave us the job, to go out and tell them about the reconciliation they already have!

THAT was what I was trying to say. It's our job to go out and tell them the good news! Now if they reject it, and I don't mean just when WE tell them, but if they reject it over their lifetime, then God will deal with them in His way. We don't do the judging. But we do warn, we do let them know Jesus has already included them into his family if they would only accept.

Boyd