I recently came across the following post in an Apostolic forum that I visit, which I beleive the spirit of the post speaks volumes to what we are trying to accomplish in the CNC. Not that the CNC is coming under the Apostolic umbrella (which it isn't) as mentioned in this post, but we are coming together under the Christian umbrella. This involves everyone that calls on Christ for their help and strength. This is writen by a Oneness believer with Oneness believers as the intended readers so Oneness theology comes shining forth within this post. To read the entire thread you can find it @ http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=12698
Here's the post;
Good evening, Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am not Administration. Nor am I an owner or moderator. I am a registered member. I joined this forum on Feb, 10, 2007 and, with this post, I will have posted 1080 times. This will be the 96th thread that I have started. Statistically, I average 2.87 posts per day.
The are a number of reasons people join internet forums. Those reason vary widely depending on the type of forum one joins. This forum would be considered a religious forum. Specifically, it is an Apostolic Forum. That means, the ownership and the overwhelming majority of the members are members of the Apostolic Faith. They hold Acts 2:38 as the very foundation of their religious experience. Moving away from that foundation , however, we can begin to detect differences. Not divisions, but differing views. Is the Apostolic Friends Forum divided? Yes, but division is the very nature of public forums. People from all across America, from Canada, and from all points around the globe see the name of the forum, APOSTOLIC Friends Forum, and, because they desire fellowship and identity with like-minded brothers and sisters, the huddle together under the word APOSTOLIC like people under an umbrella trying to dodge a rain shower. Its while we wait for the rain to pass that we begin to talk. And, we discover that, though we share the same umbrella, there are differences in our beliefs. Sometimes, that talk develops into discussions, and rarely into debates. On even rarer occasions, conflicts develop and words are exchanged that causes anger and hurt feelings.
The thing to bear in mind is that, while there are differences among us, we are all huddled under one umbrella: APOSTOLIC. We all came here to seek refuge from the storms of life in general. The soaking rains of doubt, fear and unbelief are soaking a sinful world all around us, but here we are, safe and dry, protected, at least for a season, from the rigors of life. And, we are together. Just as Jesus intended when He prayed in the garden that we be one. How is it possible for such a diverse people to come together in unity and fellowship? Well, actually, it isn’t possible, at least not through human effort. A people long ago attempted to be one and build a tower to reach the heavens, and, because theirs was a human effort, the efforts were in vain. But God, in His infinite wisdom, provided the means for us to achieve that which is humanly impossible: the Holy Spirit. By the very Spirit of the Living God that dwells in our hearts, we have the means to become one in Christ. When you stop to think about it, there is no oneness outside of Christ. Denominations have been established to unite people, but the grow and fall, because, like the tower of Babel, denominations are human effort.
It was the Holy Ghost given at Pentecost that united the 120 there in Jerusalem. It was the Holy Spirit that added three thousand to the church then, and it is the Holy Ghost poured out down through the years that have added us to God’s Kingdom. We are a blessed people… we have what the world’s political machines cannot not provide. We have unity. No, we may not always agree. Our doctrines may differ. Our belief system, developed, not be a manual or creed, but by a spiritual experience of being reborn into God’s Kingdom, may not always agree, but the Spirit within us does agree, bearing witness with our spirits that we are God’s children.
Of course, within our ranks, are labels. Personally, I despise the labels but have come to accept them as a necessary evil. We are known by our labels- our convictions are erroneously and wrongly judged by the labels pinned us. Cons. Mods and Libs. Our allegiance to the Lord Jesus is often questioned by these carnal labels, as if someone can see through the label and see the very intents of the heart.. But, that isn’t possible. Only God sees the heart, and I suspect that when He looks at the heart of those who bear the name Christian, He sees His own reflection.
So what of these alleged “changes” in the Forum? I can recall just a few weeks ago when someone alluded to changes in the Forum. Some said the change was refreshing. Others said they like the changes. But now, more changes have come and some are concerned. Some see this as a beginning of the end for AFF. But, no, this forum, like all forums that go through change, will continue as is. It will grow. It will weather the storm. How? By those who huddle under the Apostolic umbrella. The truth is, the Forum can now say without reservation that it is “ a place where Apostolics can communicate with freedom”. In reality, those words can be shouted because the recent changes open new doors of opportunity. There is, as someone recently posted, “ a new breeze blowing” at the Apostolic Friends Forum. The rains beat around us, but, this Forum will weather this storm just as it has the storms of the past.
We regret losing these valued members. But, we support them in their decision by urging them to remain true to their convictions. We will miss their valued posts- but the Forum will live on. We will remain in One Accord, doing just what those words mean, “rushing forward, in unison.”. The Forum will not rise like a Phoenix from the ashes, because it has never fallen. It stands today and for a long time to come as a shining example of what happens when God’s people comes together in the Unity of the Spirit. God bless the Apostolic Friend Forum, and God bless the owners, moderators and members of this great Forum!
Thank you Daniel. That is a very good example of what CNC is all about. Yes, we follow the Apostles creed, but we also realize that there are differences in our ranks. That is why I had to defend those that were being"condemned to hell" for not believing exactly as we do.
CNC is the umbrella for Christian Nudists, and there are differences in our beliefs. I am still learning and changing over the years. What I believe and hold dear today, I did not understand nor care to understand ten years ago. And what I believed then and would stand up and defend with all my might ten years ago, I laid aside today and started a new life in the Lord.
But what has not changed was that Jesus Christ was, is and always shall be, my Lord, God, King and Savior.
When you get about ten thousand Christians in a large arena and ask them their what their church is, what their pastors name is or anything that is obviously different, then you will get about ten thousand different answers. It would be pandemonium. Even how they baptize (dunk, water hose, sprinkle, spit, not at all) would be different.
But ask them who their savior and Lord is, then it would sound something like this: "JESUS CHRIST!!!!!"
That is why and how CNC can exist! Not because of our individual details of life in Christ. We do not exist because we are good at it. In fact, I'm terrible at it. I am amazed beyond belief that something I'm pulling together is actually coming together! But I know it's because God brought together many people who help me and encourage me and each other to do the work. Jesus pulled twelve apostles together for a reason. Some were sheppards, one was a physician, another a tax collector and maybe a lawyer. Some were highly educated, others were a bunch of red necks. But they were all united in Christ.
May we see that as our banner, and may we move forward in that same Jesus Christ.
Can you truely prove otherwise? Do you really know their hearts? Do you know how God is working through these people?
Are you sure you really know the Real Jesus? I'm not saying we should accept every interpretation of Jesus, but Jesus is still God, and with that in mind, he is fully in control. So he can work with anyone he wants to. Thats the beauty of the Trinity. The inclusion, the fact that God can work with anyone at any time, whether they are aware of it or not. That does not mean they are "saved", but it does mean that God is working with more than just a handful of us here.
"If it were the same Jesus Christ I would agree with you, but I follow a different Jesus than the one presented earlier."
Mark,
You are right in saying that we serve a different Jesus than you do. The Jesus that Oneness Penticostals (and most of other people here) serve is FULLY GOD and fully human, but your posts has constantly shown that you don't believe Jesus to be fully God, but only a small portion. In essence you have stripped the power and authority from Jesus leaving him to be just a mere man. You are so bound in tradition that you call the God I serve the antichrist not knowing the awesome work that God does in the Oneness teaching churches that Trinitarian churches have never seen. I know this from experience since I was raised in a Trinitarian church and have only gone to Oneness teaching churches 6 years out of my 30 years of church going. Oh how I pray that the Trinitarian churches will experience the same wonder working power of God that Oneness churches have, but I know that they must let go of tradition and set their hearts to seeking out God and worshiping Him in Spirit and Truth and allowing God to have control of their lives before that will happen in their congregations. OP churches have issues that need dealt with, they are not perfect, and for this reason this OP goes to a Trinitarian teaching penticostal church. I'm pretty sure that OP churches are not perfect in theology, and neither are you. You placed yourself in judgement of a matter of which you have no personal knowledge. My Jesus said you will judged with the same judgement that you judge. (Did your Jesus say that?) So be carefull who you condemn less you find yourself condemned by your own words.
Lets not get into this "My Jesus, Your Jesus" argument. That will only spark more problems.
Jesus is Jesus, no matter who you think he is. Our opinion of Jesus, what he is, makes no difference. He will be Jesus if you think he is a hundred.
Jesus "belongs" to no man. WE belong to HIM, bought and paid for by his sacrifice, his blood. And since only God can forgive sins, Jesus forgave us by his blood (which is of flesh) therefore, Jesus is God and man, fully.
Humanity can only go to God through Jesus. Jesus said he will NEVER leave us nor forsake us. Since Jesus is still with all humanity, and we were forgiven while on the cross, humanity is with Jesus, who is man, which is with God.
A full circle. God is with man, because Jesus is man and God is with Jesus, the man. And since Jesus is with us, God is with us. And we are with God, via Jesus, man/God.
So who belongs to whom? WE belong to God. Not the other way around. WE are helpless sinners. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God", "No man can come unto me unless the Father who sent me draws him unto me" said Jesus. No man can come to God unless God draws him. And if no man can, then where do our works come from? If it is our works, then it is of nothing, but if it is of God, then humanity has been touched by God and God is working through humanity. Not because of our righteousness, but because of God's goodness and mercy and righteousness.
We are human and all are created in HIS image. WE are HIS creation, our good works are HIS works. We live our life in God's presence, whether we sin or not, whether we do good or not.
We also understand that humanity CANNOT exist without God. In order for humanity to exist, God has to make it so. We have no problem saying that the universe is sustained in his hands and all of creation, so our existence is also sustained in His hands.
So our little concerns over whether we fully understand the triune God being One, is of little consequence. You belong to the same God as I do, who belongs to the same God as the Chinese, Japanese, Russian, African, Spanish, German. Doesn't matter whether it's the Pope, a charismatic Christian Evangelist, or Hitler. We are God's creation, we all belong to God.
Now, what we do with that realization and that opportunity, is individual.
Now, make sure you understand this: I did NOT say that all of humanity is "saved" for salvation. One must go through Jesus Christ.
No one said we must "fully understand the triune God".
You are arguing against a position no one has taken.
The issue is refusing to believe in the Jesus of the Bible and substituting the Jesus of the cults.
And actually, Jesus is the owner of an auto repair shop on the outskirts of Mexico City.
Doubt my word? Go see for yourself. He's a nice guy and he'll fix your car for a reasonable price.
I believe in Jesus and know that my car is safe in his care.
As long as we both believe in Jesus, we are all marching together and singing Kum Ba Yah! Right?
I would not use the word "divided" to describe the diversity of Christians here, or "under the Apostolic umbrella," or wherever Christians may be. Diversity need not not be division. As Boyd says, we serve the same Jesus, whoever we understand Him to be. "For he that is not against us is on our part." --Mark 9:40
