I know I keep bringing up stuff like this, but it sure makes the gospel so much easier, and helps us to understand how the gospel relates to naturism!! Yes, I still discuss naturism here!
I think some of you may believe that I'm going off hack cocked here because not much is being said about naturism. If I mention that I ran around the block naked, then we'll get all kinds of posts and responses, but bringing up something truely from the gospel, even though it may be foreign to some readers here, it's not responded to very well.
But I keep trying, and hoping to reach people with this. So here is yet another great, yet very simple, way of getting out the Good Schpiel. (Read Orbit, then Art of Spiritual Conversation, Part 2)
This is an interesting and old theology. It is the essence of universal salvation, "all are save by the sacrafice of Christ". It removes any need for faith / belief. It nullifies any need for an act of free will on our part. With this view point we are allowed to ignore or even reject the gospel and still be included in salvation.
I believe that this ingnores Romans 1 16.I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17.For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith.
Yes, our salvation is provided for only through Christ's atonement. But, the image of God, that we are created in, includes free will. We must choose to accept, ignore or reject the gift of salvation. We have no basis for ingoring Christ throughout our lives and them expect Him to testify on our half before the Father.
When I have a little more time I will read and comment further.
Thanks for your comments. I can see how you can take this for the old "Universalist" thinking, but this is not it! Believe me, I talked to these guys personally and they are NOT universalists.
Yet....in a small way, they are.
They do believe in choice. You can ignore the gospel and suffer for it. You can be in a marriage with potential bliss and happiness, yet be in hell at the same time! Just ignore your mate and act as if they don't exist, or believe that you two are not "one" but two people existing in the same household for "mutual" benefit. Not a good scene.
I do encourage you to keep reading. There is a smack of Universalism, and one of them even said "I am a Universalist, yet I am not a Universalist. As humans, we tend to go the way of works and law on the one end, or total universalism on the other end. There is a balance.
God includes all humanity, and have forgiven all, but that does not mean that "all are saved no matter what" Yes, there is a "matter what". But unlike us, who will condemn people to hell in a moments notice, will be shocked by God's mercy. The son who was working in the field and came home to find a party going on for his "lost" brothers sake, was quite upset and thought his Father was crazy! Somehow, the older brother had it in his mind that his lost younger brother was destined to hell and can never be forgiven. That is us. Do we feel that way about our lost brethren? Had the son never came home, true, he would have been forever lost, but it was not his good deeds that brought him home or was it his good deeds or great speech he prepared that got his dad to running and smothering him with kisses.
His Dad (our Father) said "Welcome home" while we are standing out there in the field judging thinking the worst of our brother.
It was the Father (not the jealous older brother) who said, "...for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.' And they began to celebrate." Luke 15:24
There was a time when the prodigal son was very much dead in sin. It was divine reality, not a point of view.
Correct, and it was true. But one is not lost unless he has a home to be lost from. A man wandering the streets with no home is not lost. A man wandering the streets looking for his home, is lost. Once the young man realized (eyes opened...hey I got a Father and a home), he turned and headed in that direction. Repentance came later, when Truth slapped him in the face (with kisses) and he realized who his Father really is, and what he is really like. He took upon himself to come up with a wonderful, prayerful speech, which his Father never heard nor desired, since he was too busy welcoming him home!
So when we say someone is "lost" (we say "poor lost souls"), are we implying that they do have a home? This young man had a home, he always did have one. And so does humanity. Dead in their sins, yes, but a home they do have if they would only believe and come home and be welcomed as this young man was!
Now what would happen if the son never came home and decided to disown his family? Then he would be truly dead in his sins and more than just lost. But as long as he has a Father he is the Fathers son...no matter what he thinks otherwise. Humanity is represented as the young man who decided to go his own way. Eventually, they will come home once they see who the Father truly is (called repentance) and their relationship in Him.
edited:
I had to come back in and add one more thing.
The young man did not repent until after the Father ran to him and embraced him. Forgiveness was already there, because the Father was looking for him to show up eventually. "The father saw him coming from afar..." meaning that the Father was looking pretty hard up the road expecting him to come any time. His love for him was there with forgiveness long before the young man came to his senses. All the young man wanted was to be a servant, expecting his father to give him no more than that, with a good speech to make it happen. Repentance came when he realized who the Father really was. Forgiveness doesn't heal you, it just opens the door for healing. He was forgiven whether he came up that road or not, whether he believed or not. Remember, the father already forgave him, he was looking for him. It was how he reacted to that forgiveness.
So I am not saying that everyone will go to heave whether they believe or not. I'm saying that like the son, everyone is forgiven, but it is up to them to come home. Their repentance will come when they put away that well rehearsed speech (that the Father never listened to anyway) and believe for the first time in their lives who and what the Father is!
The "resurrection" (my son was dead but is now alive) came when he saw his Father for the first time in this way! (We will be like him when we see him as he is). Even the other son did not really know his Father as well as he thought until now.
Boyd
This message has been edited by boydallen on May 13, 2008 4:41 PM
I was thinking along the same lines that this was a minor variation on Universalism until I dug a little deeper into the background of the theology. I think what the theology is trying to do is reconcile the old faith vs works problem and reinforce the idea that salvation is NOT a result of works.
This is accomplished by separating the Christ's sacrifice on the cross and subsequent resurrection which was absolutely given freely once and for all - the whole world - from the process and experience of sanctification (if I'm using the right term). If you really want to wade deep into the theology there's an extensive treatise on the subject written by a fellow by the name of Thomas Erskine (published 1870 so the language is a bit challenging at times) which can be found here on Google Books:
Of all the very detailed and logical discussion in the book I like this short paragraph perhaps best of all:
"I am well aware that there are many Christians who do not perceive these difficulties at all, and who of course are not disquieted by them. The object of their contemplation is not a theological system, but the great Being whose nature and relation to us form the theme of theology, - and their delight is not in the logical coherence of their theory, but in spiritual communion with Him. Such persons are indeed blessed, - and instead of presuming to teach them, I desire to learn from them."
Would that each of us could have a more child like faith and focus more on Jesus than running down various theological rabbit trails.
