I am working on a project to address all areas of a persons life. It will work on the spiritual, but will also hit physical fitness, nutrition, finances, and marriage. I feel like these things are a complete system that form our lives. If we work on the sprirtual and ignore our health than are we living life more abundantly? If our finances are out of control dosen't that hurt our witness and make us doubt God's provision? I am starting a program to work on giving a person the chance to become whole. I don't know how to get it started, as a ongoing program, or a conference. Any ideas? I have folks in my church who excel at some of the catagories, and they are excited to participate. If I have a favorable response at church, I may try to work out a church discount at my gym. My wife and I have already started this process in our life and have experienced great results! We decided in the chaos of our life that we needed to let Jesus into all the areas of our world. I know, I know, you are thinking, "you are a pastor, didn't Jesus have all of you?" This is greater than that! We had to look at every bad habit in our life and call it sin, repent and ask Jesus to help us conquer it. That included unhealthy eating habits, bad spending habits, marriage grudges, laziness, etc. I have to tell you, it all started with naturism. I know this will be hard for many. It is a big change and change is really hard to embrace. It is easier to keep doing the same old bad habit. Even if all sign up I believe many will drop out not far into the program. So I want to set up a reward system, with short term and long term goals. Again, any ideas?
Big grizzly bare
I find that I'm most whole when I'm doing music. (Especially when I'm doing it in the nude. ) Music is an activity that not only involves body, mind, and spirit to an unusually high degree, but forces them to work together. Since you're a pastor, I suspect preaching is the same for you: the body--voice, facial and bodily expressions--is the vehicle you use, the mind directs, but the spirit, and the Spirit, are the power.
Of course, if we were preaching or playing 24/7 we'd burn out fast! But since this wholeness exists, and many of us have found it in doing some craft, hobby, or profession, I have become convinced that creativity is one path to wholeness. And creativity is many-sided. A good sermon, a functional computer program, an outside-the-box solution to a common problem--these are also examples of creativity, and aids to wholeness.
Man, you hit the nail on the head. For me preaching is one of the biggest highs I have ever found. God will impress a scripture on me and have me meditate on it. Then He will slowly give me the general direction He wants the message to go. At last when the time comes it is a rush as Sprirt and flesh blend together. In that moment my brain can process more than I can comprehend. All at once... I can feel the power of God's Sprirt, see the bible open up from Gen to Rev before me, feel what everyone in the room needs, tell who is soaking it up, choose the best scripture for support, and even sense if there be supernatural help or hindrence in the room. (run-on sentence much!) Preaching is the fun part, it's running the church that gives me a hard time. I need a lot of work on my management skills. Yet another thing I am trying to round out on my journey to becoming a better human being.
Born nude.. I have to admit I have an unfair advantage in my time. Being a Pastor let's me combine Spiritual growth and work into one. If I am laying on the couch reading The Shack, I am "working". At least that is what I tell the wife when asked to do chores. (shhhh) Right now my day looks like this:
Wake up at the crack of 9:00/11:00
Me and wife have protein shakes
Play with kids while making their breakfast
I go to computer for 3 or 4 hours of Prayer/ Bible study/E-mails/etc.
lunch is chicken breast/tuna
2:30 put on clothes, pick up son at school
Go to gym for 1 1/2 hrs
4:30 Supper is something healthy
Play with kids
Evening is church functions/phone calls/counceling/ hospital visits/CNC meetings/conferences/ revivals/member visits/dates with wife/dates with myself/and as often as I can I take my kids fishing,swimming,camping,etc.
Play with kids
Put kids to bed
Enjoy time with my wife
Go to bed at 1:00/2:00 am
This is a typical day in my life. I am on call 24 hours a day. What do you think? Big Grizzly Bare
...that you need that wholeness you're researching to maintain such a schedule! lol
But wholeness, by its very definition, must involve not just our spirits but our daily life, including work, family, and (cover your ears, kids!) marital relations among everything else. And our culture fights it! Everyone seems to want you to unbalance your life to help them, buy their product, or work for The Man--and advertising executives have done a great job convincing us we won't be whole without the products were advertising. (I read once that many early advertising men had been preachers...)
One of the most wholeness-inducing decisions I ever made was to give up the boob tube.
Let's face it: Most of the stuff on that list only you can do.
But if I were you, I might split up prayer time from Personal computer time.
I do my best praying in the morning, but having a prayer closet works best for me. If the computer room can double as a prayer closet that's fine, I would just switch off the monitor for a while and get down on my knees. In my case, I have a long commute across a very big city, so waiting until my car is in the parking lot at my destination is sometimes the place where I can pray without the added worry of traffic. In your situation, making a room in your home a prayer closet might work out just fine. For instance, you don't want to break away from the Lord simply to learn that the phone call was to resolve an argument between two deacons about the color of the carpet that's being installed in the chapel.
Time in scripture could very well be a time that you hear from the Lord as well, but within reason, I think it is easier to return to the verse you were just reading than to return to a communion with the Lord that was interrupted by some petty squabble.
Mrs. BGB is your life companion, your helpmeet and bone of your bone, and your time of private communion with her is sacred too. I don't mean to sound like I am critiquing your specific situation, just making a general observation about how necessary it is for a preacher to not neglect the love and nurture of his mate, while appearing to have it all together to folks outside the family. (I've seen too much of that).
Of course we all do multi-tasking. To a certain extent, a family can be together in church, but much of the quality time you need with your kids will have to be outside the church walls.
The stuff you do in the evening shows the most promise for outsourcing.
Ever since Jethro took Moses aside to urge him to divvy up his workload and not try to do it all, preachers have been fighting the inclination to be the church's one and only "goto guy". Deacons, elders, committees, staff, interns, volunteers should all be helping take some of the administrative burden and some of the visitation burden off of you.
At first they are going to do it wrong, but please don't tell yourself, "If you want something done right, you'll have to do it yourself". That is a formula for heart attacks, burnout and divorce.
Your leaders MUST be recognize that you are not an office manager who happens to preach. You are a minister of the gospel who has an occasional voice in administrative matters.
Hi guys;
Thanks for all the great advice. Joch I am ashamed to say that I used to be in sales. I got disgusted and quit when I noticed my gift could cause people to buy things they could not afford. My heart has always been to help people, not take advantage of them. Sometimes when the bills come due the temptation is too great, so I quit.
Ram, I really like that last line you wrote. I have been trying to set that frame of mind in the church for years. God has blessed me with 2 very smart people who are a couple. She is my clerk and he is my deacon. They have been a HUGE blessing! He is one of the wisest people I have ever met. He has helped me set up the church government and budgets, out-reach, and business meetings. He has focus on business side of ministry so I can do what I do best (Listen to God).
As for my mate, well, we do everything together. Where I go she goes. The weekend I went to Avalon was the longest we have ever been apart in 9 years of marriage. She has changed recently, she has went from just wife to also being my disciple. She used to pick at me saying she knows everything I do. However one night at a IHOP we were coming back from a spiritual warfare conference, and she began to ask me how I do what I do. I have begun to teach her all I have learned about ministering by the direction of the Holy Spirit. A few weeks later her great-uncle was in the hospital having a small stroke. We went to pray for him and was told that a major stroke was on the way. I told her first we would pray and ask God how he wanted us to pray. When we finished I asked her if she heard or felt anything. She said she felt a burning on the right side of the head, so I told her to pray on that side. During that prayer God moved on all 3 of us. God healed that man right there. He went from not being able to talk to doing a comedy performance in the bed. We all talked and laughed for a while. The next day he called and said after more tests the stroke that had been about to hit the right side of his brain was gone as was any damage from the first one. Praise God!
You wrote "Your leaders MUST be recognize that you are not an office manager who happens to preach. You are a minister of the gospel who has an occasional voice in administrative matters."
You are right, that is exactly why deacons were started in the church, to help take the load off the pastors! The book of Acts support that!
Yes, Amen to that Boyd!
As you said, it certainly is in the book of Acts:
So the twelve summoned the congregation of the disciples and said, "It is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve tables.
"Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task. Acts 6:2-3
This concept is also echoed to some extent in the gospel of Luke on the occasion when Jesus was a guest in the home of two sisters, Mary and Martha:
But Martha was distracted with all her preparations; and she came up to Him and said, "Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to do all the serving alone? Then tell her to help me." But the Lord answered and said to her, "Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things; but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her." Luke 10:40-42
I have struggled for years over this same issue. I am a mental health nurse in my paid employment and so I have skills and training which I used to think I need to use in my church life. Then I met a lutheran pastor who used to be a mental health nurse. He asked me to consider my paid work as being a ministry and that God was asking me to use different skills in my church work. I did some study and now I do some lay preaching and also some leading of study groups. I have also found that cleaning the church very spiritually up lifting.
This same pastor set time aside to serve in a way very different from his role as a pastor, he found he could take time off and help with thye grounds of a local community school. When asked why he was not doing the grounds of his church he responded by saying that his time away from the church role allowed him to be more productive while working in the church role. Also he said that by him not doing the church grounds it allowed a social worker from the department of families the opertunity to do some church work different from his paid work.
Dr E Staney Jones in his book "The Word Made Flesh" states that when the aposiles set up the deacons the growth of the church moved to the laity and so people like Steven and Philip were responsible for the massive growth in the church. Also the greatest evangalist of all time (Paul) worked as a Tent maker to finance his ministry. he did not spend his time contemplating, praying and meditating. These things have their place but also does working for and with other people. To be whole try cutting an old lady's lawn or go shopping for an invalid.
Pastors, practical things being done for others is important for your being ballanced and allowing some Lay people to be spiritual teachers of pastors is also important to you as well.
If a pastor is paid by a congregation then he/she is employed by that congregation to provide the spiritual insights, not to be the leader in all aspects of the church. We often expect the best preachers to also be the best administrators, unfortunately this is not so!!!!!!!! Pastors let those who are best at administration administate, you find your other skills to serve and do it outside your church, you will outreach more effectively if you do!!
Wow I dont post for a long time then I do this, sorry!!
Tevita
Dude
You are really speaking to me. I have to make this short because I have to run. I have had the hardest time letting others help me. I started this church with 4 people, so at first most of the work was on me. As more people has joined it has been hard to let go. Not everyone can do it like me or are quite as faithful, so the temptation is to take it back. This is one of the things I am working on to become whole. Big Grizzly Bare
BGB, you said a mouthful of truth here:
"Not everyone can do it like me or are quite as faithful, so the temptation is to take it back"
And that is the problem with humanity at heart and soul. We want to take back the control we give to Jesus. Jesus WILL do it differently that we do, and he is MORE faithful!
So as a result, he picks people that are NOT like us and may or may not be as faithful (probably more). (Don't forget, he used a donkey one time)
What we call faithful is those who do things like us. What God calls faithful is those who do things God's way or by his direction. So we say they are unfaithful because they are not doing it our way!
God is not concerned with how perfect we do things (Yes, I'm working on that too), but how willing we are to listen to God and let God handle things.
Now of course, I know you realize this and I'm preachin' to the preacher here! So as a brother in Christ (who is not perfect and not always faithful either), I feel your pain and weakness!
Blessings to you and may God do it His way (as much as that frustrates us)
There is balance in letting tasks go, as well.
You know this already, but it bears repeating:
Depending on the task and the individual, there is often a training period where you monitor closely, then begin backing off to merely checking in periodically.
And everyone in the church or business is accountable to "management" regardless of how much free rein they get.
Even though Jesus walked in sinless perfection on this earth, for his sojourn among us he also temporarily set aside his knowledge and full power, taking what he needed from the Father, as an example to us.
Be carefull as to who is management for what!!! I do not have issue with the pastor or clergy being the spiritual manager of the flock but I do take issue with them also managing the church's programme/ It is interesting that in the early church the apostles set aside men to carry on the day to day management of the functions of the church (Stephen being the most famous of these) while they concentrated on the spiritual. Some church men such as Dr E Stanley Jones have stated that that was a mistake the apostles made others feel that it allowed for deeper spiritual insights which allowed the church to grow. I still feel that the most insightfull of spiritual leaders do not make the best administrative leaders. The insights needed are different and can at times lead to conflict or compromise. Again the issue of compromise in a church is oftern seen as controvertial.
I'm tired so I hope this makes sence.
Tevita
There are many pastors who, for the most part, are learning to give administrative duties to others, however, also need to make the "final" decision since they are responsible for the flock overall.
There are some pastors though, who are great administrators and make sure they keep their team on their toes.
It's a fine line and balance. A good pastor will not just give their administrative duties over to someone and let it go. But if they did their pastoral duties correct, they would set it up so they don't have to worry about it. Tough call sometimes.
Even if a pastor is a good administrator, I can't imagine one man micro-managing every detail of every facet of church operations.
At my job we have weekly meetings with the boss to make sure things stay on track, but he does NOT have to get phone calls on every detail through the workday from every one of the eight work teams that he has out there in the field. He would actually be very annoyed if we called him to ask to confirm something that he already clearly told us to do. (There was a little bit of that the first week or two as we were learning the job). Now we only bring him the exceptions that can't wait until the next weekly meeting. He has appointed team leads to take care of escalations that are not urgent and most things are not urgent.
I think Stanley Jones is wrong to assume that the Apostles made a mistake in delegating administrative tasks. Jethro's admonition to Moses should be enough additional scriptural confirmation that delegating authority is a biblical principle.
There are micro-manager pastors to be sure. (and a large number of divorced micro-manager pastors if you'll forgive me for editorializing).
I have no problem if the pastor of a small congregation happens to have good administrative skills and wants to take on oversight of such things. The acid test would be if the ministry suffers as a result of him doing too much.
Exactly Ramblinman,
A micromanager in any field does not have the right kind of team work attitude.
I had a boss at my previous job in Greensboro that lasted about four months (contract) and he was a micro manager. He lived in another city and I saw him only a few times but got instructions and direction constantly via phone and email.
The boss I got now lives in South Carolina and he is so far from micro management that I have to call him once in a while to see if he still got a job!
My pastor has his "feelers" out on all aspects of the church (and the responsibility of being a regional director over several states), but if you want to do something, do it! If you walk up to him and say "Pastor, I would love to see a coffee and beverage table for everyone to enjoy throughout our services", and he will say "Great!! I would too! When are you going to set it up? Just let me know if you need to purchase something and we'll help you out!" He wants people to take "ownership" and live out our freedom in Christ.
He wants people to take responsibility, but not at the expense of the church or the pastors overall goal and vision. He wants to hear out your goals and visions, and help you line it up with the church's goals and vision.
My pastor is excited about my involvement in CNC and bringing nudists together as a Church like group. Bringing Christianity to naturism. But he may not be as delighted if I bring naturism to his congregation! (But if someone in our church hears what I am doing and join it, then that is fine too, but again, not bring it in as a part of our pastors vision.)
The pastor is the one who usually has the vision and mission in mind, and leads the congregation to that goal. If he or she is a good pastor, they would adjust according to how the response is in church, and in community. So that vision and mission adjusts accordingly. That is where the whole congregation is seeing that vision and mission, being "sold" on it, and able to carry on the administrative duties to carry it out so the Pastor can be free to continue pastoring the church towards that goal.
That is why it is best to have a small group to start with, let it struggle, go through the growing pains (Jesus had 12) and once that group (some come, some go) finally gets to where they got the vision and mission and tools to carry it out, then the real ministry begins! That may take a few years. But that is the group the pastor wants to use to carry out the job that the pastor does not have time to do (but is fully in mind of).
All this sounds familiar and can be put into context with this here book learnin' (working for Bach in Biz Admin). The uppermost part of the hierarchy of the church is God. He is the supreme leader, president/ CEO / COO. (He has his own personal staff - the angels.) He has his goals for the future and His plans for the future to support those goals.
He is a delegator and does not work alone. He delegates authority down to His senior management, the higher leaders in "the Church", his plans. They, in turn, lead their middle management, pastors, who delegates to their line managers, deacons. The overall mission is to hire the most employees as possible by the deadline. God Himself is the only one who knows the deadline which is a motivator to everyone else under Him to increase the number of employees as possible as quickly as possible.
The organizational chart is mainly classified by function and product. Functions include quality control, finance, and human resources. Products include written word messages, spoken word messages, and sung word messages. These functions and products can differ somewhat geographically and according to the type of customer served. But ultimately, the end result is generally the same: To build the biggest group of God-loving, redeemed, outreaching people before Jesus the Christ comes back to claim them.
) Music is an activity that not only involves body, mind, and spirit to an unusually high degree, but forces them to work together. Since you're a pastor, I suspect preaching is the same for you: the body--voice, facial and bodily expressions--is the vehicle you use, the mind directs, but the spirit, and the Spirit, are the power.
