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Once a naturist, twice a Christian

January 13 2015 at 12:31 PM
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Lost and Found  (no login)

 
I have a story to share, and I felt it was worth sharing on this forum. Here goes.

As a child I was familiar with the teachings of Christ. Including the part where we were supposed to be prepared for His return even as we sleep. This meant: sleeping with clothes on. When I became a teenager, however, I found Boyd Allen's site and it seemed to make sense to me. After all, if I wore clothes out of pride, and pride was sin, then in order to remove sin from my body I would also have to remove the clothes that symbolized my sin, right? Wrong. This is a deception of the devil.

You see, part of being a Christian means believing the word of Christ. What did Christ say about nudity? He said to "clothe the naked" and in Matthew 25:36 he praises clothing each other and in doing so we clothe Him. The bible goes on to describe how we will be clothed in robes during worship after Armageddon. You see, the devil did not tell Adam and Eve to wear clothes, he simply convinced Adam and Eve to turn against God. After such a sin, Adam and Eve then felt "naked". So: God clothed them. The devil did not clothe them, GOD clothed them. God is provider and knew that Adam and Eve would need clothing in order to survive living outside of the Garden. We should be thankful for our clothes, not rebellious and cast them away. Even after God cast Adam and Eve out of this world, he returned as His son and gave us further instruction to REMAIN CLOTHED. You see, we are not longer in the Garden of Eden. We NEED clothes to protect us from the evil one and our own lust filled ways.

Perhaps, the naturist is correct. Perhaps to walk with God means to cast all fear (and clothes) away. Perhaps some day we will all be free of sin and able to return to the garden complete without clothes. But remember: WE ARE NOT IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN. We have been cast out. It is nice to be ignorant and think that everything will be fine as long as we believe in God, but what did God Himself say about clothes? He said to "clothe the naked".

So, knowing that we are NOT in the Garden of Eve, I present to you two options: 1. Believe Boyd Allen's lies about God wanting us to be naked; 2. Believe what our Lord and Saviour Jesus our Christ said about clothing.

If you want to know what Jesus wants us to do, instead of searching the Internet to find what you think you want to believe in, pick up a bible and ask God himself what he wants you to believe in. Take a step of faith and try to communicate with God about this situation instead of taking the "Internet" as gospel.

 
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Boyd Allen
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Re: Once a naturist, twice a Christian

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January 14 2015, 2:39 AM 

Terry: I accidentally deleted your comment while trying to edit my comment. Please accept my apology. sad.gif



Hi Lost and Found,

First of all, I want to thank you for commenting on my site. Of course, you missed a lot and I do have another site, Christian Naturism Blog that explains even more.

Lets start with one mistake: You are basing your ideas on works. Not faith. Works is where we "do something" to atone for or to get God to do something for us. In this case, to remove (or wear or add on) clothing to please God. If that were the case, the bible would say so. But it does not, nor do I make such a claim. I do make the claim that God is pleased with us because we are in Christ, in whom he is well pleased. Wearing clothing will not save us any more than removing our clothing. Our clothing is not our salvation, Jesus is.

You have made the assumption we are removing our clothes because we feel by doing so, we are removing pride, sin, etc. No. We teach JESUS removes all sin. We remove our clothes, or just simply not put them on, because we don't want them. We are uncomfortable with them, and feel it is not necessary. It has nothing to do with righteousness or obtaining righteousness. We are righteous because of Jesus' righteousness, alone.

Here is where you are right, Jesus told us to clothe the naked. But, does that mean being naked is a sin? He also said to feed the hungry. Does that mean being hungry is a sin? Does that mean fasting then is wrong? If someone went three days in fasting, should I make that person eat food because Jesus said to feed the hungry? What if I am clothed with righteousness? Am I then naked before God?

You wrote "Perhaps some day we will all be free of sin and able to return to the garden complete without clothes." Wait...did you just miss something here? First of all, the bible made it plain that he removed all sin from the world. John 1:29 "The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" Do you believe that? Did Jesus accomplish what he set out to do? "Forgive them (all) for they know not what they do."

Now we have been forgiven of ALL SIN! YES! READ THAT AGAIN! ALL SIN! FORGIVEN. Now. You are Free. You are NO LONGER under the curse of Adam. IF you believe you are STILL under Adam, then JESUS FAILED and you are still in your sins and no salvation is given to you! He rescued you...YOU...from under that bondage, from under that curse, from under Adam. You are now IN CHRIST, sitting with him at the right hand of the Father in your humanity. Jesus is flesh, and you are flesh. Jesus is not ashamed of his flesh, nor should you.

To feed the hungry and clothe the naked is not a law to say all must wear clothing. It is a law of compassion. Where we are told to not ignore the needs of unfortunate and abused people. We are to take care of one another, even our enemies. It is a law of love.

I never said we are to return to the Garden of Eden. That is closed. But what does the garden represent? God sent Adam and Eve out of the garden, but it was more than just a garden. It was God's presence, his "Throne room" if you will. We have been banished to the world, the world of sin. Jesus came and redeemed all and brought humanity back to himself, to his presence. Are you aware that Jesus was naked when he was crucified? Were you aware he was naked when he came out of the tomb? That Jesus was still flesh, still in his humanity, when he rose? Yet he was glorified and restored to his previous glory. Still flesh, yet fully God. He is sitting at the right hand of the Father as flesh, as a human being, glorified.

Now I got a real BIG question for you. You may have stumbled a bit, maybe choked on that sandwich you are eating, but did you notice I said "Jesus was naked"? Yes. And that bothers you? Why? Was Jesus from the Father, or from man? IF he is from the Father and not from man, then Jesus is the "Other Adam", not FROM the original Adam. Therefore, if he was called the "Other Adam" (or Second Adam), then he could NOT have been asked to wear clothing and was not kicked out of the Garden. Therefore, Jesus has NO NEED for clothing, for he has never sinned nor inherited sin. Think about that one. And we are now IN CHRIST. "We live, move and have our being in him", Paul said. Therefore, when Jesus died, we died with him and when he rose, we rose with him. Our humanity is no longer in Adam, but in Christ.

Now...does that mean we must be naked and being naked pleases God? I never said that. I did say God has no problem with you being naked.

Now, you also said the Devil did not say they were naked. In a sense, you are right. But he corrupted mans mind and the first thing they decided after being influenced by the devil is to believe they were naked and started to live in fear! There is no love in fear. They even hid from God! IF God wanted Adam and Eve to be clothed, he would have given them clothes to begin with and told them Himself that they were naked. But God asked "Who told you that you were naked?" which implies God was not the one, so who? Then immediately followed up with "Did you eat of the tree I told you not to eat?" Read that again. Why did God come to the conclusion they must have eaten of that tree when he asked them about being naked? You have to read carefully, not just make quick assumptions. It took me a while to see that, but when I did, it was a huge eye opener for me!

Please read the articles again, especially "The Second Adam" and "The Book of Romans". You will find much more details.

Now the last part is confusing:
"Take a step of faith and try to communicate with God about this situation instead of taking the "Internet" as gospel."
First of all, the "internet" is not a gospel anymore than a book is a gospel. The bible is a book, and many books have false information on it, including porn. Does that make the bible wrong because it is in a form of a book? The bible is on the internet, right? Does that make it wrong? Is your church represented on the internet? Do you know pastors you follow that write articles on the internet? Does that make them wrong? Did YOU just wrote your thoughts right here on the internet? Are they false because they are on the internet? Are you false because what I read that you wrote is on the internet? Use logic my friend!

Of course we pray to God. Of course we read the bible. You think I just made this stuff up because it's on the internet?

Isaiah 1:18 "Come, let us reason together..."

BTW, who wear clothes to bed because Jesus might come? I never heard of that one. What if I were taking a shower and was naked when Jesus came? Would he stand around and wait while I quickly cover up? Do you not know that Jesus is with you ALWAYS? Think about that when you are sitting on the toilet or taking a long shower!

We always say that we are Christians first, naturists second.

Again I ask, "If we are created in God's image and likeness, then just what part of God are you ashamed of?"

Now figure this riddle. Why was Jesus baptized?


    
This message has been edited by boydallen on Jan 14, 2015 7:22 AM


 
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Lost and Found
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Cool

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January 14 2015, 8:43 AM 

I like your level of education, and actually would like it if you were correct... however...

Where does it say Jesus rose naked? Also, when Jesus was on the cross, yes, he was naked, and it was against his will. It was considered the most shameful way of dieing (naked crucifixion). Did Jesus want to be naked? No. Also, I am positive Jesus did NOT rise from the grave naked. Yes, his death clothes were removed, but he was in fact wearing something else in its place. Can you prove otherwise?

You also never mentioned a part I did talk about. The Bible continues and says that we will wear robes as we worship God. Yes, that's right, we will NOT be naked.

You can't say that you are saved from sins and therefore are sin free. We all have sinned and fall short the glory of God. Does being saved from sin give us the right to allow our pride to enable us to walk around naked, just because it's comfortable? No. We're still sinners. We are saved by living in Christ. This includes wearing clothes of righteousness.

 
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Boyd Allen
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Re: Cool

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January 14 2015, 3:07 PM 

Robes: What does it mean "Robes of Righteousness"? I never really said that we will be naked in heaven.

Here is the problem we are working on:
We are nudists. Nothing more, nothing less. Just like living outside of the need for clothing except for what is necessary (Nude when practical, clothed when necessary)
The problem is that we verbally beaten down by a bible thumper and cast to hell permanently for something we feel is not applicable. So we state our argument via bible, not that we feel it should be necessary. Like being cast off into hell for flying airplanes, which is not an issue in the bible as a "hell worthy cause". Being nude is not banned biblically. Yes, we are seen as being clothed with "white robes", but since we can wear white robes here on earth, what is so special about it? What does it do? What does it mean? Is it to hide our nudity? Or for something else?

What does righteousness look like? What makes you think we are not saved from our sins? What makes you think we are still being punished as if under Adam, when in fact, we are now under Christ, no longer under the penalty of death? Yes, I sin, we all have fallen short, so that is why I know I need Christ. To claim otherwise is to say I don't need Christ. That is the point of this scripture.

But does that mean I am still under Adams penalty and forced to wear clothing as a "punishment"? Why am I being punished for sin when Jesus took that away? How can you say we are not sin free? Jesus took our sins upon himself. If you don't believe it, then HOW can our sins be taken away if not for Christ? Do you have another way? Our works? Our "human potential"? We are too full of sin for our abilities and works. No, we need Christ who is the only one to take away our sins. And if he didn't take them away, then what was Cross ordeal all about?

Now, to find out where I found out Jesus was naked, it is obvious you didn't read the article "The Second Adam". So please go back to that and see where I found this.

Can anyone else following this topic find another article that shows Jesus' nude resurrection?

And what makes you think Jesus is ashamed of the human body when HE was the One who created it and said it was "very good" and the body was still naked when it was proclaimed as very good? And Jesus became that same flesh, so why should he be ashamed of it? He didn't sin.

And my question for you is: Why was Jesus baptized? And to further mess up brains here, what if I told you that he was probably baptized naked?


 
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WHAT ???
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Re: Once a naturist, twice a Christian

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January 14 2015, 12:09 PM 

Deleted my post? Well, O.K. I guess I can live with that. It happens.
Part of my original post was that often the Bible speaks in metaphors and when it reads "clothed" it may not mean literally with cloth garments. It may mean clothed in His "light," "love," "embrace," etc. and so on.

I would only wonder why Lost and Found had a need to seek us out to tell us how wrong we are. What happened to live and let live? Does he write individual churches and tell them their philosophy and beliefs are all wrong? And Why?

 
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Boyd Allen
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Re: Once a naturist, twice a Christian

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January 14 2015, 5:00 PM 

Thank you for your grace and understanding Terry! And for reposting what you can remember.


 
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Boyd Allen
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Re: Once a naturist, twice a Christian

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January 14 2015, 7:12 AM 



    
This message has been edited by boydallen on Jan 14, 2015 4:59 PM


 
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Ramblinman
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Re: Once a naturist, twice a Christian

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January 17 2015, 1:26 PM 

I think it is presumptuous, rude, even hateful to call Boyd a liar when he makes positive statements about the body, about social nudity, naturism, etc.

Even if he were wrong about naturism, we must allow for the possibility that is simply mistaken rather than being a liar.

But Boyd is not wrong, Boyd is not misguided and certainly not a liar:
I believe that Boyd and others have presented compelling evidence in favor of nude living, both at home and in a social context and shown that scripture does not condemn nudity absent sinful behavior. In addition, the history of the Christian church is full of examples of Christians living a Christ-centered life while nude recreation, nude work, social nudity, nudity in fine arts, even nude baptisms were a harmonious part of Christian living.

 
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Terry
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Re: Once a naturist, twice a Christian

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January 22 2015, 7:58 PM 

So, I guess Lost and Found really has nothing more to discuss on the matter.

 
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Lost and Found
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He is a liar

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February 24 2015, 1:09 PM 

Yes, Boyd Allen is a liar. He made up a story about Jesus being nude after the resurrection and does not have any evidence to support this.

 
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