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The Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church of Christ) Doctrines

The intention of this board is to discuss the teachings of the Iglesia Ni Cristo. The rules are: A) must respect others, B) no profanity, C) no name calling, D) no ANONYMOUS posting, and E) must post in English. Messages that contain profane languages or insulting will be deleted. What can be posted? You may post Church doctrines or questions about the doctrines but not questions about individual or member's deed/practice. As host/administrator, I will remain neutral. This means -I will not comment on any post. I will read the post and then make a judgement whether or not it violates any rule. If it does, it will be removed. Lastly, I'm an X-INC.
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  1. 1]. Tomas and all, consider this scripture: John 2:19-22 View Thread - Michael on May 12, 2016, 10:20 PM
    1. My answers depend on a question the Bible does not really answer: Was he totally dead? - Tomas on May 14, 2016, 1:33 PM
      1. Those who don't believe in Christ wanted people to believe that Jesus was not totally dead - Michael on May 15, 2016, 2:27 AM
        1. I know he was mortal, he did die. The issue is whether all of him died, or his body. - Tomas on May 21, 2016, 4:20 PM
    2. The Bible says God resurrected Jesus (Acts 17:31; Romans 10:9).. - INCquisitor on May 15, 2016, 9:00 AM
      1. Yes, the Bible says so. But that is not the issue here. - Michael on May 15, 2016, 11:35 AM
        1. Jesus does NOT contradict himself. - INCquisitor on May 20, 2016, 5:44 PM
          1. Of course He won't and did not. - Michael on May 21, 2016, 12:02 PM
            1. John 2:21: "But he was speaking of the TEMPLE OF his body." - INCquisitor on May 22, 2016, 8:57 AM
              1. John 2:21 ekeinos de elegen peri tou naou tou sōmatos autou - Michael on May 22, 2016, 10:43 AM
     
  2. 2] Tomas and all, consider this scripture: John 6:38 View Thread - Michael on May 13, 2016, 9:00 AM
    1. My answers: - Tomas on May 14, 2016, 1:00 PM
      1. Re: My answers: - Michael on May 15, 2016, 1:26 AM
        1. My response to your response: - Tomas on May 21, 2016, 3:53 PM
    2. John 6:38 does not speak o Christ as preexisting in heaven. - INCquisitor on May 15, 2016, 9:15 AM
      1. How is John 6:38 a figure of speech? - Michael on May 15, 2016, 12:05 PM
        1. Re: How is John 6:38 a figure of speech? - INCquisitor on May 20, 2016, 5:24 PM
          1. What type of figure of speech is John 6:38, if you say it is? - Michael on May 21, 2016, 12:11 PM
            1. It is immaterial what figure of speech is John 6:38. - INCquisitor on May 22, 2016, 9:17 AM
              1. It is. For if you can't tell us, then you have no basis of saying it is a figure of speech - Michael on May 22, 2016, 10:11 AM
     
  3. The gospel of Felix Manalo and the gospel of Jesus Christ View Thread - Michael on Jun 4, 2015, 4:49 PM
    1. So INC has added more requirements for salvation. Still, they believe in the same gospel - Tomas on Jun 6, 2015, 3:39 AM
      1. That's not the way it is Tomas. - Michael on Jun 6, 2015, 1:41 PM
        1. No, INC also knows that whosoever believes in Him (the Son of God) shall be saved, - Tomas on Jun 6, 2015, 2:10 PM
          1. The issue is about what is the gospel of Manalo and the gospel of Jesus Christ. - Michael on Jun 7, 2015, 4:01 AM
            1. I don't actually know what INC teaches is the gospel, I have to admit - Tomas on Jul 11, 2015, 2:50 PM
              1. So, you say and admit that you don't know the gospel INC preach. - Michael on Jul 19, 2015, 12:21 AM
                1. What I say is I don't know how they define what the gospel means. - Tomas on Jul 25, 2015, 9:34 AM
                  1. Re: What I say is I don't know how they define what the gospel means. - Michael on Aug 4, 2015, 5:43 PM
                    1. They do believe that a few unbelievers are saved by their conscience. - Tomas on Aug 8, 2015, 8:20 AM
                      1. Unbelievers saved? - Michael on Aug 9, 2015, 2:20 AM
                      2. Yes, they generally avoid saying that. - Tomas on Aug 15, 2015, 12:26 PM
                      3. So they intentionally avoid preaching a truth they believe? - Michael on Aug 23, 2015, 11:57 AM
                      4. Yes, at least to beginners, who are given only the milk. - Tomas on Aug 29, 2015, 7:45 AM
                      5. Beginners? Milk? - Michael on Oct 1, 2015, 8:56 PM
                      6. Yes, their intention is to cause as many people as possible to join INC and not think they - Tomas on Oct 3, 2015, 3:19 AM
                      7. That sounds more of a recruitment than evangelism. - Michael on Oct 3, 2015, 7:18 AM
                      8. If it's recruitment with the good news, it is evangelism. - Tomas on Oct 3, 2015, 12:17 PM
                      9. No, recruitment is never the intention of Christ. It's definitely not evangelism they do. - Michael on Oct 6, 2015, 12:30 AM
                      10. They are bringing the good news, the gospel, whatever else they might say in addition. - Tomas on Oct 10, 2015, 6:34 AM
                      11. That may well be good cheer. - Michael on Oct 14, 2015, 6:24 AM
                      12. It can lead many to eternal life. - Tomas on Oct 17, 2015, 10:21 AM
                      13. Only if they believe in the truth, that is, Jesus Christ , and not in the lie they preach. - Michael on Oct 29, 2015, 9:58 AM
                      14. But they do believe in the truth, Jesus Christ, in spite of some errors on salvation. - Tomas on Oct 31, 2015, 6:57 AM
                      15. Preaching a gospel other than that preached by the apostles is not at all a gospel. - Michael on Nov 13, 2015, 8:14 AM
                      16. So are you claiming that the Catholic church already around 100 AD was a false gospel? - Tomas on Dec 5, 2015, 11:06 AM
                      17. Not every preaching that mentions Jesus Christ, necessarily is the true gospel. - Michael on Dec 21, 2015, 7:20 PM
                      18. I agree. But the Catholic church preached the true gospel in the 2nd century and now too. - Tomas on Dec 25, 2015, 11:14 PM
                      19. It seems, we have a different understanding of what is the gospel the apostles preached. - Michael on Jan 1, 2016, 4:25 AM
                      20. Well, regardless, we both believe in the same gospel. - Tomas on Jan 2, 2016, 1:06 AM
                      21. Not same gospel, Tomas. So, how do we? - Michael on Jan 3, 2016, 12:23 PM
                      22. So even by your definition we believe in the same gospel. - Tomas on Jan 3, 2016, 5:42 PM
                      23. If that's what you think. - Michael on Jan 3, 2016, 10:52 PM
                      24. Yes, that is what I think. - Tomas on Jan 9, 2016, 8:03 AM
                      25. And so I said. - Michael on Jan 10, 2016, 5:00 AM
                      26. More about what is and is not the saving gospel. - Tomas on Jan 10, 2016, 6:48 PM
                      27. Doctrine is different from gospel, Tomas. - Michael on Jan 11, 2016, 6:50 AM
                      28. Everything in the Bible is taught by the Bible, including historical facts. So they too - Tomas on Jan 16, 2016, 4:40 PM
                      29. Everything in the Bible is revelation from God, Tomas. - Michael on Jan 22, 2016, 6:52 PM
                      30. Yes, and everything revealed in the Bible is taught by the Bible, so it is a teaching. - Tomas on Jan 30, 2016, 10:17 AM
                      31. Well, so be it then for you Tomas. - Michael on Jan 31, 2016, 9:55 AM
                      32. Gospel and salvation requirements. - Tomas on Jan 31, 2016, 6:15 PM
                      33. A perverted gospel is a false gospel. - Michael on Feb 22, 2016, 2:26 PM
                      34. I don't call it perverted, just because they believe in another salvation requirement. - Tomas on Feb 27, 2016, 1:01 PM
                      35. Well, call it or not, the fact remains, it perverts the gospel of salvation. - Michael on Mar 2, 2016, 12:49 PM
                      36. But belief in the gospel did not disappear in the church, in spite of wrong additions. - Tomas on Mar 5, 2016, 7:03 PM
                      37. That's right. Thought that is not the issue. - Michael on Mar 20, 2016, 5:46 AM
                      38. That is exactly the issue, the gospel was preached, in spite of wrong additions. - Tomas on Mar 26, 2016, 6:57 AM
                      39. Re: That is exactly the issue, the gospel was preached, in spite of wrong additions. - Michael on Mar 26, 2016, 3:15 PM
                      40. The gospel was believed in every century, even when all Christians had additions. - Tomas on Mar 26, 2016, 5:13 PM
                      41. That is not the issue, I reiterate. - Michael on Mar 27, 2016, 12:36 AM
                      42. The issue is exactly that in those centuries all Christians believed in additional - Tomas on Apr 2, 2016, 7:47 PM
                      43. The issue is about whether or not such perverts the gospel. - Michael on Apr 10, 2016, 8:45 AM
                      44. History proves that such beliefs did not pervert the gospel. - Tomas on Apr 16, 2016, 6:25 PM
                      45. The Bible proves that a false teaching perverts the gospel the apostles preached. - Michael on Apr 20, 2016, 1:03 PM
                      46. Well, nobody of people on earth today can be infallible, anybody has false teachings. - Tomas on Apr 23, 2016, 9:25 PM
                      47. That certainly is a common and popular excuse. - Michael on May 5, 2016, 1:34 PM
                      48. Wow, you have a huge idea of what is the gospel, namely the person, life and works of - Tomas on May 8, 2016, 12:25 AM
                      49. Not really huge as you think Tomas. - Michael on May 8, 2016, 3:50 AM
                      50. Then it seems to me contradictory, what you are saying. - Tomas on May 14, 2016, 10:15 PM
                      51. Re: Then it seems to me contradictory, what you are saying. - Michael on May 15, 2016, 4:20 AM
                      52. Sorry, but I don't see that you have clarified the confusion. - Tomas on May 21, 2016, 9:39 PM
                      53. Re: Sorry, but I don't see that you have clarified the confusion. - Michael on May 22, 2016, 7:13 AM
     
  4. Who is the God spoken of in scriptures? View Thread - INCquisitor on Dec 13, 2015, 12:20 PM
    1. While the Father is the only true God, this only true God might include more - Tomas on Dec 13, 2015, 10:09 PM
      1. What makes you THINK that "this ONLY TRUE God.... - INCquisitor on Dec 14, 2015, 4:32 AM
        1. There are hints in the Bible that the Son could be God too, for example - Tomas on Dec 19, 2015, 12:12 PM
          1. Do you know what "logical thinking" is Tomas? - INCquisitor on Dec 20, 2015, 5:44 AM
            1. Sure, I do. - Tomas on Dec 26, 2015, 1:48 AM
              1. You call this logical and rational thinking? - INCquisitor on Dec 27, 2015, 4:47 PM
                1. Sure, I do. - Tomas on Dec 27, 2015, 5:26 PM
    2. eh-yeh - Michael on Dec 15, 2015, 11:32 AM
      1. I see now, you are referring to the Hebrew word ehyeh, meaning "I will be". - Tomas on Dec 26, 2015, 1:31 AM
        1. I am referring to the name God gave to Moses in the Hebrew language, to tell Israel. - Michael on Dec 26, 2015, 2:53 AM
          1. I know that. The reason the transcription says eh.yeh, was to divide the syllables. - Tomas on Dec 26, 2015, 7:33 AM
            1. Oh sorry for typing it eh-yeh instead of ’eh·yeh. - Michael on Dec 27, 2015, 2:33 AM
              1. I guess those who made this interlinear Bible are trinitarians. - Tomas on Dec 27, 2015, 5:30 PM
                1. You are free to guess. But surely, they have studied Hebrew and Greek. - Michael on Dec 28, 2015, 12:22 PM
                  1. Yes, they have. But these translators into English were not native speakers of Hebrew. - Tomas on Jan 2, 2016, 3:27 AM
                    1. And so are you and me. - Michael on Jan 2, 2016, 9:35 PM
                      1. We don't know if the Septuagint scholar who translated Ex. 3:14 was a native speaker of - Tomas on Jan 3, 2016, 6:09 PM
                      2. 70 JEWISH scholars. But if you are a skeptic, well... - Michael on Jan 3, 2016, 9:22 PM
                      3. 70 Jewish scholars. But that does not mean that they all discussed each verse. - Tomas on Jan 9, 2016, 8:29 AM
                      4. Think as you like Tomas. And perhaps you are far more of a scholar than they are. - Michael on Jan 9, 2016, 12:20 PM
                      5. I know they knew Hebrew better than I do. But translating from one language - Tomas on Jan 9, 2016, 1:12 PM
                      6. So, you know better than them in translating from Hebrew to Greek? - Michael on Jan 10, 2016, 4:06 AM
                      7. Some of them were likely native speakers of Hebrew, so they knew that ehyeh means - Tomas on Jan 10, 2016, 7:17 PM
                      8. For sure they were JEWISH scholars of the Hebrew and Greek language. - Michael on Jan 11, 2016, 6:23 AM
                      9. Of course they were. Some were probably native speakers of Greek, some of Hebrew. - Tomas on Jan 16, 2016, 5:07 PM
                      10. Native or not, they are Jewish SCHOLARS. - Michael on Jan 22, 2016, 7:27 PM
                      11. Yes, but that did not make their translation inerrant. - Tomas on Jan 23, 2016, 10:14 PM
                      12. And that does not make one like you be the judge if their work is erroneous or not. - Michael on Jan 24, 2016, 1:28 AM
                      13. Surely if we see a very non-literal translation, we can judge it as inexact. - Tomas on Jan 30, 2016, 9:49 AM
                      14. Re: Surely if we see a very non-literal translation, we can judge it as inexact. - Michael on Feb 23, 2016, 3:24 AM
                      15. Inexact translations, and about modalism. - Tomas on Feb 27, 2016, 12:11 PM
                      16. Re: Inexact translations, and about modalism. - Michael on Mar 3, 2016, 1:40 AM
                      17. Yahweh and ehyeh, modalism - Tomas on Mar 5, 2016, 6:00 PM
                      18. Re: Yahweh and ehyeh, modalism - Michael on May 7, 2016, 10:42 AM
                      19. More about Yahweh and ehyeh, modalism. - Tomas on May 7, 2016, 9:45 PM
                      20. Re: More about Yahweh and ehyeh, modalism. - Michael on May 8, 2016, 12:43 AM
                      21. name of God, modalism - Tomas on May 14, 2016, 10:59 PM
                      22. Re: name of God, modalism - Michael on May 15, 2016, 3:14 AM
                      23. The Father's one name, modalism - Tomas on May 21, 2016, 10:25 PM
                      24. Re: The Father's one name, modalism - Michael on May 22, 2016, 2:14 AM
     
  5. Translate freely in English, the Greek NT scriptures View Thread - Michael on Oct 5, 2015, 9:43 AM
    1. Here's another to translate. - Michael on Oct 10, 2015, 4:26 AM
      1. This was a bit harder, without the macrons above vowels. - Tomas on Oct 10, 2015, 5:51 AM
        1. As i said, translate freely Tomas. - Michael on Oct 17, 2015, 6:28 AM
          1. OK, very freely I can say "Whatever was from the beginning, which we have heard, - Tomas on Oct 17, 2015, 8:29 AM
            1. So that's how you translate it. Thanks. - Michael on Nov 19, 2015, 11:31 AM
              1. Verses 1 and 2 speak of the Word of life, and of the life, which the Word is of. - Tomas on Dec 5, 2015, 8:04 AM
                1. Christ is the life, the light. - Michael on Jan 8, 2016, 10:46 AM
                  1. No verse calls Christ the life. - Tomas on Jan 9, 2016, 4:23 AM
                    1. John 14:6 “I am the way, the truth, and THE LIFE .... - Michael on Jan 15, 2016, 5:03 AM
                      1. So John bore witness of the life and the Christ, of both. - Tomas on Jan 16, 2016, 10:46 AM
                      2. Tomas, tell us how John bore witness of the eternal life. - Michael on May 9, 2016, 10:07 AM
                      3. Of course the Bible does not give all the sayings of John, but it does give one verse - Tomas on May 14, 2016, 2:05 PM
                      4. That's not the issue, Tomas. Please address the issue. - Michael on May 14, 2016, 11:50 PM
                      5. John was sent to bear witness of the life, so of course he did not disobey. - Tomas on May 21, 2016, 10:36 PM
                      6. Re: John was sent to bear witness of the life, so of course he did not disobey. - Michael on May 22, 2016, 1:00 AM
    2. The first one is 1 John 5:20. - Tomas on Oct 10, 2015, 5:39 AM
      1. Translate freely Tomas. - Michael on Oct 17, 2015, 6:27 AM
        1. OK, freely. We also know that the Son of God has come and has let us know - Tomas on Oct 17, 2015, 8:35 AM
          1. So, that's how you translate it. - Michael on Nov 17, 2015, 9:34 AM
            1. The Son of Him (of the Father). - Tomas on Dec 5, 2015, 8:19 AM
              1. The Son of Him (the Son of God) - Michael on Jan 8, 2016, 8:07 PM
                1. In the Son of God, of course. - Tomas on Jan 9, 2016, 4:34 AM
                  1. Re: In the Son of God, of course. - Michael on Jan 15, 2016, 7:40 AM
                    1. We are in both. - Tomas on Jan 16, 2016, 10:48 AM
                      1. We are in Him (not in them) who is true. God is true. Christ is true. - Michael on May 9, 2016, 10:18 AM
                      2. The verse does not say the Son of God is true too. - Tomas on May 14, 2016, 4:10 PM
                      3. If does not, does it mean you don't believe that the Son of God is true? - Michael on May 14, 2016, 11:38 PM
                      4. The Son is true, just like the holy angels are true, for example. - Tomas on May 21, 2016, 10:45 PM
                      5. Scriptures does not have anything about the Son being true like the angels. - Michael on May 22, 2016, 1:06 AM
     
  6. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. View Thread - Michael on May 9, 2016, 6:41 AM
    1. Yes, faith comes to us by hearing or reading about the gospel in the Bible. - Tomas on May 14, 2016, 5:50 PM
      1. Faith cometh by hearing. Hearing whose word? - Michael on May 14, 2016, 11:04 PM
        1. The word of God. - Tomas on May 21, 2016, 11:11 PM
          1. Faith comes from God, by hearing His words. It does not come from something, but from God. - Michael on May 22, 2016, 12:32 AM
     
  7. For Tomas only: Verses that speaks of Christ's Deity. View Thread - Michael on Aug 17, 2014, 3:51 AM
    1. the Logos was divine - tf on Aug 22, 2014, 3:31 AM
      1. Finally TF had a voice again. The Logos was divine. So? - Michael on Aug 22, 2014, 2:34 PM
        1. it was not me who admitted this truth - tf on Aug 25, 2014, 4:05 AM
          1. So TF, what now? - Michael on Aug 25, 2014, 11:47 AM
            1. so what now?? - tf on Sep 8, 2014, 3:53 AM
              1. Tell us what you and INC say and not what others say. That's what. - Michael on Sep 8, 2014, 10:55 PM
                1. stop crying... - tf on Sep 11, 2014, 10:22 PM
                  1. How can theos mean divine as adjective? - Tomas on Sep 13, 2014, 3:02 AM
                    1. Re: How can theos mean divine as adjective? - tf on Sep 14, 2014, 10:17 PM
                      1. I am surprised those two Greek grammarians did not know - Tomas on Sep 27, 2014, 3:28 AM
                      2. This is not the first example in which INC falls for (or better: takes advantage of) - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 20, 2014, 9:09 PM
                      3. According to Tomas "a god" appears in many verses of the Bible. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Nov 4, 2014, 8:58 AM
                      4. Well, sometimes in Greek there is just no definite article - Tomas on Dec 14, 2014, 1:37 AM
                      5. Cause of disharmony in the Bible: "a god" Why would I waste any more time with you? - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Dec 14, 2014, 8:49 AM
                      6. Have you heard of this? - Wayne on Feb 5, 2016, 12:21 AM
                      7. Qualitative nouns means nouns referring to some quality. - Tomas on Feb 6, 2016, 6:40 AM
                      8. "the predicate noun can define or describe the subject noun" - Wayne on Feb 6, 2016, 7:29 AM
                      9. Adjectives can describe too, just like nouns can describe. - Tomas on Feb 6, 2016, 11:17 AM
                      10. You put "a" before "god" so that's no longer anarthrous - Wayne on Feb 6, 2016, 4:33 PM
                      11. It is not anarthous in English, but it is anarthous in ancient Greek. - Tomas on Feb 6, 2016, 7:39 PM
                      12. "The word was a god" is it the same as "A god was the word"???? - Wayne on Mar 25, 2016, 6:12 PM
                      13. In English, to put a god in the beginning, that would make it the subject of the sentence. - Tomas on Mar 26, 2016, 5:59 AM
                  2. Stand up on your own feet TF. - Michael on Sep 27, 2014, 4:51 AM
    2. Why "For Tomas only?" - INCquisitor on Aug 25, 2014, 6:22 PM
      1. This was coming from one of our discussion in another thread. - Michael on Aug 25, 2014, 9:49 PM
      2. Herr Incquisitor, you are a New Yorker. Are you pals with this male New Yorker? - Oberst Ozzy Osborn on Aug 26, 2014, 6:43 PM
        1. Welcome to this forum. Is Pellien now in New York? - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 9:56 AM
    3. Michael, here is my response concerning those verses. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 10:11 AM
      1. So verse John 1:1 is best translated "... and the Word was a god". - inhinyero on Aug 30, 2014, 10:18 AM
        1. No, I am not JW, even though I started my Bible study with them. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 12:39 PM
      2. Re: Michael, here is my response concerning those verses. - Michael on Sep 9, 2014, 12:39 AM
        1. About the Word, and the word. - Tomas on Sep 13, 2014, 2:52 AM
          1. Re: About the Word, and the word. - Michael on Sep 27, 2014, 7:55 AM
            1. About a god, the Word of life. - Tomas on Oct 4, 2014, 11:22 AM
              1. Re: About a god, the Word of life. - Michael on Oct 7, 2014, 4:42 AM
                1. More examination of 1 John 1:1-2. - Tomas on Oct 18, 2014, 7:25 PM
                  1. Re: More examination of 1 John 1:1-2. - Michael on Oct 20, 2014, 8:10 AM
                  2. Re: More examination of 1 John 1:1-2. - Michael on Oct 20, 2014, 8:31 AM
                    1. Further examination of 1 John 1:1-2. - Tomas on Nov 1, 2014, 12:03 PM
                      1. Re: Further examination of 1 John 1:1-2. - Michael on Nov 1, 2014, 1:22 PM
                      2. More examination of 1 John 1:1-2, and also Psalm 82. - Tomas on Nov 1, 2014, 2:57 PM
                      3. Re: More examination of 1 John 1:1-2, and also Psalm 82. - Michael on Nov 1, 2014, 3:32 PM
                      4. Oh, man, you have strong opinions about so many things. - Tomas on Nov 1, 2014, 8:11 PM
                      5. Re: Oh, man, you have strong opinions about so many things. - Michael on Nov 6, 2014, 1:30 PM
                      6. Seems to me you keep jumping to conclusions. - Tomas on Dec 14, 2014, 2:23 AM
                      7. Seems to me Tomas, that's all you can seem to say. - Michael on Dec 14, 2014, 7:40 AM
                      8. No, on many doctrines I agree with you. - Tomas on Dec 26, 2014, 11:13 PM
                      9. Do you Tomas? - Michael on Jan 18, 2015, 8:27 AM
                      10. Yes, I do. Like about the meaning of verses which INC takes to refer to FYM. - Tomas on Jan 25, 2015, 7:41 AM
                      11. Re: Yes, I do. Like about the meaning of verses which INC takes to refer to FYM. - Michael on Feb 6, 2015, 9:27 AM
                      12. about truth, lake of fire, inheritance - Tomas on Feb 7, 2015, 3:07 AM
                      13. Ok - Michael on Oct 17, 2015, 5:55 AM
                      14. God is not sadistic, so conscious eternal torment would not please him. - Tomas on Oct 17, 2015, 9:37 AM
                      15. And who is saying God is? - Michael on Nov 13, 2015, 10:51 AM
                      16. Would God create conscious eternal torment, and it would not please him? Then why do it? - Tomas on Dec 5, 2015, 10:14 AM
                      17. God desires all men to be saved and not suffer the curse that sin brings. - Michael on Jan 5, 2016, 4:55 AM
                      18. Of course. But he knows some will not be saved, and he would not want for them conscious - Tomas on Jan 9, 2016, 9:25 AM
                      19. God does not desire anything like that for anyone. It was man's choice. - Michael on Jan 9, 2016, 11:49 AM
                      20. Wow, it would take an extreme masochist, to actually want to suffer eternal torment. - Tomas on Jan 9, 2016, 2:32 PM
                      21. Are you now saying that it is God who wanted them to have eternal death? - Michael on Jan 9, 2016, 9:02 PM
                      22. If they refuse to have faith or repent, to the end, then no more hope for them, - Tomas on Jan 9, 2016, 10:13 PM
                      23. So, who wants them to have eternal death? Is it God or is it themselves who reject Christ? - Michael on Jan 10, 2016, 3:59 AM
                      24. God will want that. Now He wants them saved. I'm not aware of anyone wanting eternal death - Tomas on Jan 10, 2016, 7:50 PM
                      25. So, Tomas you believe that God wanted that all along. - Michael on Jan 10, 2016, 9:50 PM
                      26. God knows some will not be saved. But now he wants all saved anyway. - Tomas on Jan 16, 2016, 5:29 PM
                      27. Of course God knows all things, Tomas. But knowing and wanting are two different things. - Michael on Jan 22, 2016, 6:35 PM
                      28. That's my point, they are different, God knows all but now wants all to be saved. - Tomas on Jan 30, 2016, 11:02 AM
                      29. Who says what and when is a punishment just Tomas? You? - Michael on Feb 19, 2016, 6:58 PM
                      30. God does, through the Bible. - Tomas on Feb 20, 2016, 8:22 PM
                      31. That's right. Not you, nor anyone, for that matter. - Michael on Feb 21, 2016, 6:34 PM
                      32. But I believe what God says. Your belief about it is not in harmony with God's word. - Tomas on Feb 27, 2016, 1:58 PM
                      33. Of course that's what you'll say. - Michael on Feb 29, 2016, 3:45 PM
                      34. Because that is what I believe the Bible says. - Tomas on Mar 5, 2016, 7:57 PM
                      35. Right. That is what you think what the Bible says. But it's not what the Bible says. - Michael on Mar 20, 2016, 5:21 AM
                      36. You skipped answering some sections. - Tomas on Mar 26, 2016, 6:16 AM
                      37. Re: You skipped answering some sections. - Michael on May 6, 2016, 10:17 AM
                      38. Thank you for not skipping any sections this time, I appreciate it. - Tomas on May 7, 2016, 11:30 PM
                      39. Re: Thank you for not skipping any sections this time, I appreciate it. - Michael on May 8, 2016, 5:36 AM
                      40. More about the lake of fire, and being an heir. - Tomas on May 14, 2016, 9:28 PM
                      41. Re: More about the lake of fire, and being an heir. - Michael on May 15, 2016, 5:26 AM
                      42. Still more about the lake of fire, and being an heir. - Tomas on May 21, 2016, 8:35 PM
    4. Up for Michael, since you Michael wanted to discuss the lake of fire on separate thread. - Tomas on Oct 3, 2015, 4:52 AM
    5. Up for Michael. - Tomas on Oct 10, 2015, 7:02 AM
    6. Up again for Michael. - Tomas on Jan 2, 2016, 3:30 AM
     
  8. Tomas, and all: What is scriptures for? View Thread - Michael on Oct 24, 2015, 7:08 AM
    1. Yes, most importantly for salvation, also for instruction in righteousness. - Tomas on Oct 24, 2015, 7:45 AM
      1. So, for you scriptures is for salvation, instruction in righteousness, and - Michael on Oct 24, 2015, 10:18 AM
        1. OK, I will answer for each verse. - Tomas on Oct 24, 2015, 10:58 AM
          1. My comments now. - Michael on Oct 28, 2015, 10:39 PM
            1. Yes, the scriptures are for all this, but also for proof. - Tomas on Oct 31, 2015, 7:44 AM
              1. Apparently you miss to see the point of this thread, Tomas. - Michael on Nov 10, 2015, 6:07 AM
                1. Sure, it's for revelation, but if the revelation does not convince us, we are not saved. - Tomas on Dec 5, 2015, 1:43 PM
                  1. Not the issue here Tomas. - Michael on Dec 6, 2015, 12:23 AM
                    1. To reveal would be futile without us being convinced by the proof there. - Tomas on Dec 12, 2015, 7:35 AM
                      1. Again, not really the issue in the OP Tomas. - Michael on Dec 15, 2015, 12:21 PM
                      2. If nobody were convinced by the proof, then the revelation would be futile. - Tomas on Dec 19, 2015, 10:57 AM
                      3. Revelation of God is never futile Tomas. It perfectly accomplish what it was meant to do. - Michael on Dec 21, 2015, 11:56 AM
                      4. Sure, for those saved saved through the scriptures. Like you and me. - Tomas on Dec 25, 2015, 11:31 PM
                      5. For all, Tomas. Only that there are who see and believe, and who don't. - Michael on Dec 30, 2015, 9:20 PM
                      6. For those who don't believe, the scriptures don't accomplish much, certainly not their - Tomas on Jan 2, 2016, 2:27 AM
                      7. Scriptures affects all men Tomas, and accomplishes it's purpose. - Michael on Jan 4, 2016, 11:20 AM
                      8. How do scriptures affect people who have never even heard of scriptures? - Tomas on Jan 9, 2016, 7:32 AM
                      9. Are you really asking this question Tomas? - Michael on Jan 10, 2016, 8:07 AM
                      10. OK, so it depends on what it means somebody is affected. - Tomas on Jan 10, 2016, 6:05 PM
                      11. More on Gal. 3:2 - confined under sin - Michael on Jan 11, 2016, 12:01 PM
                      12. Yes, more on that. - Tomas on Jan 16, 2016, 1:10 PM
                      13. Apparently you fail to understand what I'm saying in my post Tomas. - Michael on Jan 22, 2016, 8:02 PM
                      14. OK, a reexamination of what it means that all were confined under sin. - Tomas on Jan 23, 2016, 9:57 PM
                      15. That's good Tomas. - Michael on Jan 24, 2016, 1:54 AM
                      16. OK, so about New Covenant commandments. - Tomas on Jan 30, 2016, 9:01 AM
                      17. Re: OK, so about New Covenant commandments. - Michael on Feb 23, 2016, 2:00 AM
                      18. About New Covenant commandments. - Tomas on Feb 27, 2016, 12:30 PM
                      19. Unbelievers are not in covenant with God. - Michael on Mar 2, 2016, 1:47 PM
                      20. Of course they are not in covenant. Still, when they steal or whatever, they sin. - Tomas on Mar 5, 2016, 6:33 PM
                      21. You really find it hard to get the point, don't you Tomas? - Michael on May 6, 2016, 11:08 AM
                      22. In speaking of God's universal law, are you referring to the laws in Genesis? - Tomas on May 7, 2016, 10:42 PM
                      23. Re: In speaking of God's universal law, are you referring to the laws in Genesis? - Michael on May 8, 2016, 7:13 AM
                      24. Interesting analysis, you claim an unwritten law. So you think conscience is infallible? - Tomas on May 14, 2016, 8:31 PM
                      25. Infallible conscience? Scriptures does not speak of one such conscience. - Michael on May 15, 2016, 2:38 PM
                      26. Interesting, so you think the Old Covenant is still in effect, for Israelites. - Tomas on May 21, 2016, 7:45 PM
    2. INCquisitor, don't you know what is Scriptures for? Why do you even read it then? - Michael on Dec 6, 2015, 6:43 PM
    3. INC, learn what Scriptures is for here, for your good sake. - Michael on Dec 6, 2015, 6:46 PM
    4. 2 Timothy 3:15-17 sums it all. - INCquisitor on Dec 19, 2015, 7:19 AM
      1. INCquisitor, what about Galatians 3:22? - Michael on Dec 20, 2015, 9:54 AM
        1. So, INCquisitor, don't you know anything about this one? - Michael on Dec 29, 2015, 2:46 AM
          1. How about telling me what you think for a change? - INCquisitor on Dec 29, 2015, 3:01 PM
            1. Ok, INCquisitor's request granted. - Michael on Dec 30, 2015, 12:34 AM
              1. INCquisitor is here I see. Care to comment on this? - Michael on May 15, 2016, 12:08 PM
     
  9. Tomas - and anyone else - who says in John 1:1: "....the Word was a god...." tells us that View Thread - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Nov 5, 2014, 2:49 PM
    1. Not lying, you don't understand that the verse can't be applied - Tomas on Dec 14, 2014, 2:58 AM
      1. You didn't answer my question. You learned from the diversion tactics of INC. But don't - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Dec 14, 2014, 8:40 AM
        1. I did answer you. Just because you don't think so, - Tomas on Dec 26, 2014, 11:22 PM
          1. Did anyone say John 10 is a factor here? I don't think so. You still haven't answered my - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jan 20, 2015, 10:57 AM
            1. I gave you the answer that you are misapplying the verse - Tomas on Jan 25, 2015, 2:00 AM
    2. Guenter, I am aware that Tomas says the word was a god. - Michael on Dec 14, 2014, 4:49 AM
      1. He "says", he is not dogmatic about it. But he also says, "a god" is the best tr - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Dec 14, 2014, 8:30 AM
        1. I am dogmatic about that that is what John meant. - Tomas on Dec 26, 2014, 11:26 PM
          1. The Bible makes much more sense without your false and personal interpretations, - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jan 20, 2015, 9:54 AM
            1. God is not the author of confusion, but we peopleq - Tomas on Jan 25, 2015, 2:02 AM
              1. Nobody needs infinite wisdom to understand the Bible. Only people like you are getting - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jan 25, 2015, 2:44 PM
                1. Surely you are not telling me you understand everything in the Bible. - Tomas on Feb 7, 2015, 6:59 AM
                  1. You don't even change your mind to the truth when you're being presented with an - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Feb 21, 2015, 9:23 AM
                    1. I told you I agreed with that author, that there can't be - Tomas on Feb 21, 2015, 9:45 AM
      2. No, Michael, the best translation is "was a god", so that is what John - Tomas on Dec 26, 2014, 11:24 PM
        1. So Tomas, you are dogmatic that Christ is a created god. - Michael on Dec 30, 2014, 7:26 PM
          1. Christ is a created god, and in addition he could be God, - Tomas on Jan 2, 2015, 11:28 PM
            1. And so Tomas, Christ, your Savior, is a created god. - Michael on Jan 4, 2015, 4:19 AM
              1. Yes, that is the biblical truth. - Tomas on Jan 10, 2015, 9:15 AM
                1. Tomas is making Christianity a God/god religion. And he says, he is not an - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jan 12, 2015, 1:21 PM
                  1. The Bible speaks of one true God, the only almighty. - Tomas on Jan 25, 2015, 2:20 AM
                    1. Not only an Almighty God, but also a Mighty God. And it's the same God. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jan 25, 2015, 3:02 PM
                      1. Why argue with Genesis? Aren't the angels extremely important? - Tomas on Feb 7, 2015, 7:07 AM
                      2. Finally we agree, the Son existed prior to the time of Genesis 1:1. In other words, the - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Feb 21, 2015, 12:24 PM
                      3. No, he was created prior to the time of Genesis 1:1. - Tomas on Feb 21, 2015, 1:10 PM
                      4. Beginning of creation? You're adding to the scriptures. That's a no no. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Mar 7, 2015, 9:45 AM
                      5. I gave you verses proving he was created. If you don't believe me, OK, - Tomas on Mar 7, 2015, 10:08 AM
                      6. no Tomas, before creation there was no time as we know of it! - Karlos on Mar 12, 2015, 6:59 AM
                      7. So give me a verse to prove it. - Tomas on Mar 13, 2015, 11:02 PM
                      8. so now you want a verse that prove God has no beggining nor end? - Karlos on Mar 15, 2015, 5:18 AM
                      9. No, I know God has no beginning nor end. I want a verse - Tomas on Mar 21, 2015, 3:08 AM
                      10. I am talking about OUR time as we know it! - Karlos on Mar 21, 2015, 7:15 AM
                      11. But I see no indication in the Bible that before creation, time somehow flew differently - Tomas on Mar 21, 2015, 8:24 AM
                      12. I am not implying anything, you are. - Karlos on Mar 22, 2015, 1:39 AM
                      13. Why would God's time in eternity be different than - Tomas on Mar 28, 2015, 12:40 AM
                      14. I don't want to repeat my explanation about time and spiritual body, I've done that. - Karlos on Mar 31, 2015, 1:57 AM
                2. Well, that's at least what you believe it is. - Michael on Jan 20, 2015, 8:12 AM
                  1. Sorry for any confusion. - Tomas on Jan 25, 2015, 2:51 AM
                    1. Re: Sorry for any confusion. - Michael on Jan 27, 2015, 9:44 AM
                      1. Well, we still disagree. - Tomas on Feb 7, 2015, 7:15 AM
                      2. Yes. You have a created as your Savior, while I have God as my Savior. - Michael on Feb 27, 2015, 3:34 PM
                      3. I'm happy for you, Michael, that you finally see the unscriptural beliefs of a blind and - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Feb 27, 2015, 4:49 PM
                      4. Cannot be changed? I have changed quite a few unscriptural beliefs - Tomas on Feb 28, 2015, 1:54 AM
                      5. Michael, my Saviors are the Father and the Son, and he might be God too. - Tomas on Feb 28, 2015, 1:52 AM
                      6. He might be God? Not when you insist on "And the Word was a god". Your hypocrisy knows no - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Feb 28, 2015, 10:29 PM
                      7. He was a god but could be God too. - Tomas on Mar 7, 2015, 12:10 AM
                      8. If He was a god, he never could be God. Either He is the only true God, or a god of many. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Mar 7, 2015, 9:36 AM
                      9. He can be both. And you misspell the en, you have final sigma - Tomas on Mar 7, 2015, 10:12 AM
                      10. Time existed only at the moment of creation as we understood the meaning of time - Karlos on Mar 12, 2015, 7:07 AM
                      11. Tomas has nothing but assumptions, "coulds", "maybes" etc. because he believes i - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Mar 12, 2015, 7:52 AM
                      12. Karlos, why wouldn't time be eternal? Do you have a verse - Tomas on Mar 13, 2015, 11:06 PM
                      13. prove to me with any versebthat the time we know now is the same time... - Karlos on Mar 16, 2015, 5:52 AM
                      14. Since I see no verse to the contrary, I assume that time before creation was just like - Tomas on Mar 21, 2015, 3:06 AM
                      15. again Tomas, God cannot create a creature that can be God! - Karlos on Mar 12, 2015, 7:01 AM
                      16. Why can't God grow, create additional persons within himself? - Tomas on Mar 13, 2015, 11:11 PM
                      17. Yes, I know that Tomas. - Michael on Mar 12, 2015, 5:58 AM
                      18. You know that one who has no uncertainties will be surprised? - Tomas on Mar 13, 2015, 11:22 PM
                      19. Uncertainties denotes doubt. With faith, there are no uncertainties. - Michael on Mar 16, 2015, 9:14 AM
                      20. No uncertainties about anything? But you admitted you don't know everything about God. - Tomas on Mar 21, 2015, 3:23 AM
                      21. Knowing and being certain that Christ is God does not mean knowing everything about God. - Michael on Mar 21, 2015, 11:59 AM
                      22. Yes. But I feel sure that to be certain that Christ is God is going beyond the Bible. - Tomas on Mar 21, 2015, 5:15 PM
                      23. Well, that is the way it is then for you Tomas. - Michael on Mar 21, 2015, 10:13 PM
                      24. Yes, that is the way for me, based on the Bible. - Tomas on Mar 28, 2015, 1:02 AM
                      25. Re: Yes, that is the way for me, based on the Bible. - Michael on Apr 2, 2015, 8:14 AM
                      26. Everything we saved people do is in the Spirit, since we are in the Spirit. - Tomas on Apr 4, 2015, 4:55 AM
                      27. Re: Everything we saved people do is in the Spirit, since we are in the Spirit. - Michael on Apr 4, 2015, 8:53 AM
                      28. But being given understanding of a verse would be additional revelation. - Tomas on Apr 11, 2015, 3:13 AM
                      29. Re: But being given understanding of a verse would be additional revelation. - Michael on Apr 15, 2015, 1:31 PM
                      30. It would be revelation of how to understand the verses. - Tomas on Apr 18, 2015, 3:33 AM
                      31. Tomas, understanding is different from revelation. Understanding is not revelation. - Michael on Apr 19, 2015, 5:39 PM
                      32. Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. - Tomas on Apr 25, 2015, 8:10 AM
                      33. Re: Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. - Michael on May 11, 2015, 7:30 PM
                      34. Understanding cannot come without words. - Tomas on May 16, 2015, 4:39 AM
                      35. I disagree Tomas. One can have understanding about God through His creation. - Michael on May 22, 2015, 12:50 PM
                      36. Of course. But that is not understanding given by the Spirit. - Tomas on May 23, 2015, 12:26 PM
                      37. Re: Of course. But that is not understanding given by the Spirit. - Michael on May 23, 2015, 10:13 PM
                      38. Understanding of verses always comes with words. - Tomas on May 30, 2015, 5:53 AM
                      39. Re: Understanding of verses always comes with words. - Michael on Jul 19, 2015, 10:13 AM
                      40. Nobody on this earth, no matter how mature, has perfect, infallible understanding of Bible - Tomas on Jul 25, 2015, 7:53 AM
                      41. Not the issue here Tomas. - Michael on Aug 6, 2015, 8:55 AM
                      42. So how can you say that all mature Christians have the same understanding? - Tomas on Aug 8, 2015, 7:05 AM
                      43. Re: So how can you say that all mature Christians have the same understanding? - Michael on Aug 9, 2015, 6:10 AM
                      44. So I guess you mean God gives understanding of some verses to mature Christians. - Tomas on Aug 15, 2015, 8:00 AM
                      45. Re: So I guess you mean God gives understanding of some verses to mature Christians. - Michael on Aug 27, 2015, 7:50 PM
                      46. Natural man, what we can know, the devil - Tomas on Aug 29, 2015, 6:30 AM
                      47. Re: Natural man, what we can know, the devil - Michael on Oct 2, 2015, 7:31 AM
                      48. Concerning the revealed things of God, and concerning the power of the devil. - Tomas on Oct 3, 2015, 2:32 AM
                      49. Re: Concerning the revealed things of God, and concerning the power of the devil. - Michael on Oct 9, 2015, 1:51 AM
                      50. More about what is revealed, and about the devil and reasons for disagreements. - Tomas on Oct 10, 2015, 5:15 AM
                      51. Re: More about what is revealed, and about the devil and reasons for disagreements. - Michael on Oct 12, 2015, 10:05 AM
                      52. About the Old Covenant, about what is revealed, and reasons for disagreements. - Tomas on Oct 17, 2015, 11:44 AM
                      53. Re: About the Old Covenant, about what is revealed, and reasons for disagreements. - Michael on Oct 24, 2015, 6:51 AM
                      54. About salvation in the Old Covenant, and about God not revealing to us understanding. - Tomas on Oct 24, 2015, 8:53 AM
                      55. Re: About salvation in the Old Covenant, and about God not revealing to us understanding. - Michael on Oct 24, 2015, 11:09 AM
                      56. So what then we can't know about salvation in the Old Testament. And about understanding. - Tomas on Oct 24, 2015, 11:52 AM
                      57. What it means to understand Scriptures. - Michael on Oct 27, 2015, 6:39 AM
                      58. Understanding the scriptures. - Tomas on Oct 31, 2015, 8:43 AM
                      59. Re: Understanding the scriptures. - Michael on Nov 12, 2015, 10:14 AM
                      60. Understanding is not enough, one has to believe what one understands. - Tomas on Dec 5, 2015, 1:09 PM
                      61. Be CUT TO THE HEART. - Michael on Dec 11, 2015, 5:36 PM
                      62. Yes, we were. - Tomas on Dec 12, 2015, 7:24 AM
                      63. And you say your conscience cut you to the heart? Not the same with me. The HS did. - Michael on Dec 14, 2015, 5:42 PM
                      64. OK, the HS by the words he inspired, convinced my conscience, so it was cut to the heart. - Tomas on Dec 19, 2015, 1:15 PM
                      65. What is it really now Tomas? Conscience or HS? And you missed out a segment here. - Michael on Dec 20, 2015, 7:08 AM
                      66. Sorry for missing a segment there. - Tomas on Dec 26, 2015, 1:09 AM
                      67. Re: Sorry for missing a segment there. - Michael on Dec 26, 2015, 3:21 AM
                      68. The New Testament, and being cut to the heart. - Tomas on Dec 26, 2015, 7:22 AM
                      69. Re: The New Testament, and being cut to the heart. - Michael on Dec 31, 2015, 2:41 PM
                      70. OK, the New Covenant, and about being cut to the heart. - Tomas on Jan 2, 2016, 1:58 AM
                      71. Why the need for a NEW Covenant? - Michael on Jan 5, 2016, 7:00 AM
                      72. For the reasons I gave. - Tomas on Jan 9, 2016, 7:22 AM
                      73. In that case, your reasons are not what I read in scriptures. - Michael on Jan 10, 2016, 8:52 AM
                      74. But it looks to me like we basically agree on this. - Tomas on Jan 10, 2016, 5:45 PM
                      75. The reality of all being a sinner is different from being CUT TO THE HEART, Tomas. - Michael on Jan 12, 2016, 9:04 PM
                      76. Yes, it is indeed very different. - Tomas on Jan 16, 2016, 12:56 PM
                      77. Good thing you know Tomas. - Michael on Jan 24, 2016, 3:12 AM
                      78. Yes, it is good that we both know. But let's discuss being cut to the heart. - Tomas on Jan 30, 2016, 5:56 AM
                      79. Re: Yes, it is good that we both know. But let's discuss being cut to the heart. - Michael on Feb 23, 2016, 6:12 AM
                      80. The need for a new covenant, and about being cut to the heart. - Tomas on Feb 27, 2016, 11:41 AM
                      81. Re: The need for a new covenant, and about being cut to the heart. - Michael on Mar 3, 2016, 2:30 AM
                      82. about Old Testament saints, and about being cut to the heart. - Tomas on Mar 5, 2016, 2:18 PM
                      83. Re: about Old Testament saints, and about being cut to the heart. - Michael on May 7, 2016, 12:17 PM
                      84. OId Testament saints, and about what caused some to be cut to the heart. - Tomas on May 7, 2016, 8:17 PM
                      85. Re: OId Testament saints, and about what caused some to be cut to the heart. - Michael on May 8, 2016, 10:40 AM
                      86. Old Testament saints, and what causes guilt. - Tomas on May 14, 2016, 7:25 PM
                      87. Re: Old Testament saints, and what causes guilt. - Michael on May 16, 2016, 4:08 AM
                      88. More about OT saints, and what causes guilt. - Tomas on May 21, 2016, 7:11 PM
     
  10. To INC: read this scripture and relate it to FYM View Thread - Michael on Oct 24, 2015, 7:14 AM
    1. Prophecy of scripture is not of private interpretation, so that verse talks about - Tomas on Oct 24, 2015, 9:08 AM
      1. The verse talks about interpretation of prophecy of scripture. - Michael on Oct 24, 2015, 10:11 AM
        1. The next verse clarifies that prophecy did not come by the will of man, by interpretation, - Tomas on Oct 24, 2015, 11:07 AM
          1. Try to read the different Bible versions of this verse, as they say the same thing, - Michael on Oct 24, 2015, 11:34 AM
            1. The NIV understood the meaning well, as they translate verse 20: "Above all, - Tomas on Oct 24, 2015, 12:27 PM
              1. The NIV on 2 Peter 1:20-21 - Michael on Oct 27, 2015, 6:22 AM
                1. More about 2 Peter 1:20-21. - Tomas on Oct 31, 2015, 9:29 AM
                  1. No prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation. - Michael on Nov 1, 2015, 8:16 PM
                    1. Anyway, the Bible does not prohibit us from interpreting prophecies. - Tomas on Nov 7, 2015, 1:20 AM
                      1. Yes, everyone is free to interpret, why not. - Michael on Nov 7, 2015, 9:36 AM
                      2. You want to listen to God's interpretation? - Tomas on Nov 7, 2015, 10:55 AM
                      3. God's interpretation? - Michael on Nov 8, 2015, 3:43 AM
                      4. You just think God gave you understanding of some verses. But how can you know? - Tomas on Dec 5, 2015, 2:05 PM
                      5. It's the same way I knew the true God in heaven. - Michael on Dec 5, 2015, 8:28 PM
                      6. With that kind of thinking, you are lucky you did not fall for a false gospel. - Tomas on Dec 12, 2015, 8:24 AM
                      7. Read carefully what I posted Tomas. - Michael on Dec 14, 2015, 7:22 PM
                      8. OK, you say the HS convicted you and moved you. The issue is still the same. - Tomas on Dec 19, 2015, 12:57 PM
                      9. In your case who convicted you and moved you Tomas? - Michael on Dec 20, 2015, 7:59 AM
                      10. The HS convicted and moved me, through the scriptures he inspired. - Tomas on Dec 26, 2015, 12:49 AM
                      11. So, now you answered clearly. It is the HS who convicted and moved you. That's good. - Michael on Dec 26, 2015, 4:43 AM
                      12. Yes, but not like you think, through an instant miraculous conviction. No. - Tomas on Dec 26, 2015, 6:36 AM
                      13. Who speaks of an instant miraculous conviction, Tomas? - Michael on Jan 1, 2016, 1:46 AM
                      14. So you think you were miraculously convicted gradually by the HS? - Tomas on Jan 2, 2016, 1:32 AM
                      15. I believe the salvation work of God is a supernatural thing, a miracle. - Michael on Jan 5, 2016, 11:02 AM
                      16. The salvation work of God, sure. But not us becoming aware of being convicted. - Tomas on Jan 9, 2016, 6:41 AM
                      17. Becoming aware of being convicted? What excuse is this now? - Michael on Jan 14, 2016, 11:10 AM
                      18. Being convicted simply means being judged guilty. - Tomas on Jan 16, 2016, 12:29 PM
                      19. Is that what your excuse is? - Michael on Jan 24, 2016, 4:53 AM
                      20. You skipped my answer in the first section, that's why you think it is just an excuse. - Tomas on Jan 30, 2016, 4:29 AM
                      21. Re: You skipped my answer in the first section, that's why you think it is just an excuse. - Michael on Feb 23, 2016, 7:49 PM
                      22. About reproving, convicting, recognizing the HS in a person. - Tomas on Feb 27, 2016, 11:18 AM
                      23. Re: About reproving, convicting, recognizing the HS in a person. - Michael on Mar 3, 2016, 5:48 AM
                      24. Can we be sure that another person is saved? I say no. - Tomas on Mar 5, 2016, 1:26 PM
                      25. Re: Can we be sure that another person is saved? I say no. - Michael on May 7, 2016, 3:33 PM
                      26. We can even be very confident that someone else is saved, but never totally. - Tomas on May 7, 2016, 6:47 PM
                      27. Re: We can even be very confident that someone else is saved, but never totally. - Michael on May 9, 2016, 5:50 AM
                      28. About faith and about salvation. - Tomas on May 14, 2016, 6:34 PM
                      29. Re: About faith and about salvation. - Michael on May 16, 2016, 7:44 AM
                      30. More about faith and about salvation. - Tomas on May 21, 2016, 6:42 PM
     
 
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