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The Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church of Christ) Doctrines

The intention of this board is to discuss the teachings of the Iglesia Ni Cristo. The rules are: A) must respect others, B) no profanity, C) no name calling, D) no ANONYMOUS posting, and E) must post in English. Messages that contain profane languages or insulting will be deleted. What can be posted? You may post Church doctrines or questions about the doctrines but not questions about individual or member's deed/practice. As host/administrator, I will remain neutral. This means -I will not comment on any post. I will read the post and then make a judgement whether or not it violates any rule. If it does, it will be removed. Lastly, I'm an X-INC.
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  1. TF, what does John 6:62 tell you? What did FYM tell you about this verse? View Thread - Michael on Aug 28, 2:13 AM
    1. UP for TF. If you don't know, would you like to ask your ministers? - Michael on Sep 6, 1:07 AM
      1. hmm..don't take it literally my friend.. - tf on Sep 8, 4:01 AM
        1. I didn't ask for your advice or opinion TF. It's about scriptures. - Michael on Sep 8, 10:49 PM
          1. where is the verse that says.. - tf on Sep 11, 10:19 PM
            1. No verse says PEOPLE saw him descending from heaven, - Tomas on Sep 13, 3:44 AM
              1. Tomas, I thought Jesus was born dead and not spirit? LOL But I admire your confession - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 13, 12:15 PM
                1. If he was created dead, he was created anyway before the foundation - Tomas on Oct 18, 8:20 AM
                  1. Well, Tomas, even considering it a possibility, as you did, that Jesus was created dead, - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 19, 7:45 AM
    2. Later, the apostles literally saw the Son of man ascending to where He was before (heaven) - Michael on Oct 11, 5:07 AM
      1. elijah was also ascended to the clouds.is he God also - tf on Oct 13, 3:09 AM
        1. Even while you are not authorized by INC to comment, let me respond to your comment - Michael on Oct 13, 4:41 AM
          1. where it is shown that jesus literally exist in heave as a person before? - truthfinder on Oct 21, 3:20 AM
            1. The Son of man is a person, or is he not? And the Son of man is Jesus, or is he not? - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 21, 7:48 AM
            2. and who is that "Spirit of Christ" in 1 Peter 1:11? - Karlos on Oct 22, 3:44 AM
        2. Hhhhhmmmmmm.... Elijah was in heaven before?....HHmmmmmmm.. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 13, 12:08 PM
          1. the issue here is about the visible ascension.. - tf on Oct 13, 5:04 PM
            1. Your question was if Elijah is also God. And I answered that. Now you're diverting to - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 13, 8:23 PM
            2. What? The issue is Christ ascending to where He was before, not Elijah's. - Michael on Oct 14, 12:12 AM
            3. tf is hiding, and afraid of the truth. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 20, 9:12 PM
     
  2. Son of Man: Why do the apostles almost never refer to Jesus by that title? View Thread - Michael on Sep 5, 12:27 PM
    1. your problem is - tf on Sep 8, 4:02 AM
      1. TF, I have no problem. - Michael on Sep 8, 10:32 PM
        1. you are one of the world's problem - tf on Sep 11, 10:21 PM
          1. He seems to be a good Christian, - Tomas on Sep 13, 3:09 AM
    2. Michael, you are making just an assumption, that the apostles - Tomas on Sep 13, 3:30 AM
      1. Let's look and analyze scriptures then Tomas. - Michael on Oct 3, 6:24 AM
      2. Let's look and analyze scriptures then Tomas. - Michael on Oct 3, 11:35 AM
        1. It is a mystery. - Tomas on Oct 4, 7:45 AM
          1. A mystery it is, yet is a mystery revealed. - Michael on Oct 9, 3:09 AM
          2. A mystery it is, yet is a mystery revealed. - Michael on Oct 9, 3:10 AM
            1. Your revelation is so speculative. - Tomas on Oct 18, 6:46 PM
              1. Not so Tomas. That's analysis. Analysis is not speculation, MAYBE's are. - Michael on Oct 20, 10:04 AM
                1. LOL, Michael, that was a good one. Tomas, the king of Maybe. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 21, 10:11 PM
     
  3. Jesus proclaimed Himself "Alpha and Omega." I will be their God and they shall be my View Thread - Dean O'Gowan on Oct 8, 5:03 AM
    1. So each can be called Alpha and Omega in some sense. - Tomas on Oct 18, 6:50 PM
      1. A comment : Alpha and THE OMEGA. - Michael on Oct 19, 11:19 AM
      2. Here comes the "Jesus was created" fantasy again! A child called mighty God was prophesied - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 21, 7:23 AM
    2. One God and One Lord. Jesus Christ is Lord. The Lord is our God. - Dean O'Gowan on Oct 21, 10:43 AM
    3. The one who sat on the throne (Rev. 21:5) - not Jesus spoke Rev. 21:6. - INCquisitor on Oct 21, 5:24 PM
     
  4. prayer to the tritnity View Thread - tf on Oct 13, 2:44 AM
    1. You're joking about God.....tsk! - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 13, 9:54 AM
      1. how do u pray tp 6our trinity - tf on Oct 13, 5:05 PM
        1. You don't even understand Trinity, otherwise you wouldn't ask a stupid question like that. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 13, 8:12 PM
          1. Amen to that. - Michael on Oct 14, 12:13 AM
          2. so the ordinary guenter understands the trinity??wowwww - truthfinder on Oct 21, 3:25 AM
            1. Proof that Michael and I have different vies about Trinity! Or better shut your mouth! - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 21, 6:40 AM
          3. so the ordinary guenter understands the trinity??wowwww - truthfinder on Oct 21, 3:25 AM
            1. Who says I am ordinary? Proof it! - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 21, 6:41 AM
          4. so the ordinary guenter understands the trinity??wowwww - truthfinder on Oct 21, 3:26 AM
            1. Why are you dodging the question where Jesus was before but not Elijah? - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 21, 7:12 AM
          5. so the ordinary guenter understands the trinity??wowwww - truthfinder on Oct 21, 3:27 AM
            1. Why do you and your INC cohorts claim Jesus was not prophesied being God by Isaiah when, - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 21, 7:16 AM
      2. Guenter, why is that an invalid prayer, if you believe - Tomas on Oct 18, 8:02 AM
        1. If you consider this: "or the the TRinity is one God?" a part of a prayer, I only can - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 19, 7:49 AM
    2. In the NAME of whom does INC baptize? - Michael on Oct 19, 11:00 AM
      1. In the NAME: Singular - only ONE, not Plural/Many - Michael on Oct 19, 9:24 PM
      2. One yet of three: Father, Son, Holy Spirit - Michael on Oct 19, 9:26 PM
        1. Amen to that! - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 21, 7:04 AM
     
  5. For Tomas only: Verses that speaks of Christ's Deity. View Thread - Michael on Aug 17, 3:51 AM
    1. the Logos was divine - tf on Aug 22, 3:31 AM
      1. Finally TF had a voice again. The Logos was divine. So? - Michael on Aug 22, 2:34 PM
        1. it was not me who admitted this truth - tf on Aug 25, 4:05 AM
          1. So TF, what now? - Michael on Aug 25, 11:47 AM
            1. so what now?? - tf on Sep 8, 3:53 AM
              1. Tell us what you and INC say and not what others say. That's what. - Michael on Sep 8, 10:55 PM
                1. stop crying... - tf on Sep 11, 10:22 PM
                  1. How can theos mean divine as adjective? - Tomas on Sep 13, 3:02 AM
                    1. Re: How can theos mean divine as adjective? - tf on Sep 14, 10:17 PM
                      1. I am surprised those two Greek grammarians did not know - Tomas on Sep 27, 3:28 AM
                      2. This is not the first example in which INC falls for (or better: takes advantage of) - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 20, 9:09 PM
                  2. Stand up on your own feet TF. - Michael on Sep 27, 4:51 AM
    2. Why "For Tomas only?" - INCquisitor on Aug 25, 6:22 PM
      1. This was coming from one of our discussion in another thread. - Michael on Aug 25, 9:49 PM
      2. Herr Incquisitor, you are a New Yorker. Are you pals with this male New Yorker? - Oberst Ozzy Osborn on Aug 26, 6:43 PM
        1. Welcome to this forum. Is Pellien now in New York? - Tomas on Aug 30, 9:56 AM
    3. Michael, here is my response concerning those verses. - Tomas on Aug 30, 10:11 AM
      1. So verse John 1:1 is best translated "... and the Word was a god". - inhinyero on Aug 30, 10:18 AM
        1. No, I am not JW, even though I started my Bible study with them. - Tomas on Aug 30, 12:39 PM
      2. Re: Michael, here is my response concerning those verses. - Michael on Sep 9, 12:39 AM
        1. About the Word, and the word. - Tomas on Sep 13, 2:52 AM
          1. Re: About the Word, and the word. - Michael on Sep 27, 7:55 AM
            1. About a god, the Word of life. - Tomas on Oct 4, 11:22 AM
              1. Re: About a god, the Word of life. - Michael on Oct 7, 4:42 AM
                1. More examination of 1 John 1:1-2. - Tomas on Oct 18, 7:25 PM
                  1. Re: More examination of 1 John 1:1-2. - Michael on Oct 20, 8:10 AM
                  2. Re: More examination of 1 John 1:1-2. - Michael on Oct 20, 8:31 AM
     
  6. Michael, do you agree with me that divorce is sin except if the unbelieving spouse View Thread - Tomas on Aug 16, 7:15 AM
    1. Here's what I can say to that Tomas. - Michael on Aug 23, 11:11 AM
      1. So we agree in part. - Tomas on Aug 30, 10:46 AM
        1. Re: So we agree in part. - Michael on Sep 2, 11:08 AM
          1. Did you flip-flop on the issue of adultery? - Tomas on Sep 13, 9:02 AM
            1. I did not. - Michael on Oct 11, 5:50 AM
              1. OK, since then you believe the divorced for adultery can't remarry, you're close to my - Tomas on Oct 18, 5:56 AM
                1. More on divorce. - Michael on Oct 19, 10:54 AM
            2. Question to both of you. The Philippines do not allow divorce, it's illegal. But they - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 13, 9:10 AM
              1. My answer. - Michael on Oct 13, 10:02 AM
                1. Annulments in the Philippines are not attacked by the Catholic Church there, only divorce. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 13, 10:06 AM
                  1. How about you? what is your take on divorce and annulment? - Michael on Oct 13, 10:12 AM
                    1. I'm not sure. Years ago I attended a service at an United Methodist church. Their pastor - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 13, 10:21 AM
                      1. Well, I'm rather sad than surprised. - Michael on Oct 14, 12:24 AM
                      2. You said: "...because of the hardness of man's heart, divorce was allowed." Doesn't that - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 14, 8:27 AM
                      3. Not really Guenter. - Michael on Oct 14, 2:56 PM
                      4. To be honest with you, I don't understand why Moses had the power to permit divorce. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 14, 4:06 PM
                      5. Guenter, Moses was the chosen prophet of God of Israel back then. - Michael on Oct 14, 11:12 PM
                      6. If God permitted divorce at Moses' time, when did God change His mind? I thought, he never - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 16, 2:37 PM
                      7. I think you didn't quite understand me there Guenter, when I said - Michael on Oct 16, 5:29 PM
              2. My answer. - Michael on Oct 13, 10:02 AM
              3. Guenter, the Philippines allow Muslims to divorce, but not Christians. - Tomas on Oct 18, 6:37 AM
                1. Thank you, Tomas. Another question to you and Michael: Is divorce one of those sins Jesus - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Oct 19, 8:13 AM
                  1. Re: Thank you, Tomas. Another question to you and Michael: Is divorce one of those sins Jesus - Michael on Oct 19, 9:58 AM
     
  7. INCquisitor: On Eph.2:15, the One New Man (others are welcome to join) View Thread - Michael on Aug 21, 10:01 AM
    1. Important correction! Missing word* in CAPS! Sorry about that. - Michael on Aug 21, 10:27 AM
      1. Oh, you don't agree. Too bad. - Tomas on Aug 30, 4:01 PM
        1. So you agree with INC and FCCC. That's what's too bad Tomas. - Michael on Sep 3, 4:46 AM
          1. Here is why I find your interpretation inadequate. - Tomas on Sep 13, 8:36 AM
            1. Re: Here is why I find your interpretation inadequate. - Michael on Sep 30, 11:52 AM
              1. The head of the body, the church. - Tomas on Oct 4, 9:15 AM
                1. Re: The head of the body, the church. - Michael on Oct 7, 3:06 AM
                  1. More about the head of the body. - Tomas on Oct 18, 8:39 PM
                    1. Re: More about the head of the body. - Michael on Oct 19, 9:12 AM
     
  8. the 1 God of michael is actually a one WHAT.. View Thread - tf on Jun 3, 10:35 PM
    1. 325 AD..no trinity doctrine yet - tf on Jun 3, 10:39 PM
      1. Tf, if you have a problem with the Nicene council of 325 AD, settle it elsewhere? - Michael on Aug 27, 6:59 AM
        1. admit it or not - tf on Aug 27, 8:21 PM
          1. Think what you want TF. - Michael on Aug 28, 1:33 AM
          2. was influenced by your preachers - inhinyero on Aug 28, 2:54 PM
    2. 381 AD only then that they completged their trinity invention with the addition of HS - tf on Jun 3, 10:41 PM
      1. Regardless of councils, Catholic theologians started teaching trinity already in 175 AD. - Tomas on Jun 6, 9:26 PM
        1. Early Trinitarian Quotes - by Matt Slick - tumpak on Jun 16, 7:37 AM
          1. Your quotes from Polycarp, Justin Martin, and Ignatius do not - Tomas on Jun 21, 7:25 AM
        2. Regardless of councils, the deity of the Father, Son and the HS is taught in scriptures. - Michael on Aug 27, 7:52 AM
          1. The deity of the Father is taught in scriptures, but not deity of the other 2. - Tomas on Sep 13, 12:05 AM
          2. You mean scriptures as you INTERPRET them, don't you? - IN Cquisitor on Sep 14, 4:30 PM
            1. Re: You mean scriptures as you INTERPRET them, don't you? - Michael on Sep 27, 4:13 AM
      2. Have another problem with the RCC, TF? - Michael on Aug 27, 7:01 AM
        1. if not for the influence of the councils - tf on Aug 27, 7:01 PM
          1. That may be correct TF, but influence is different from believing. - Michael on Aug 28, 1:38 AM
          2. Proconceived Bias - inhinyero on Aug 28, 3:12 PM
    3. THE HOLY TRINITY - PROMDI FORReAST on Jun 17, 1:29 PM
      1. How can you be sure how many persons God is? - Tomas on Jun 21, 7:30 AM
    4. mike ran away from this thread also - tf on Aug 27, 3:46 AM
      1. Re: mike ran away from this thread also - Karlos on Aug 27, 4:31 AM
        1. no thought on that verse tf? - Karlos on Aug 28, 3:58 AM
          1. Hmmmmmm... I'm still waiting TF. - Karlos on Aug 28, 10:29 PM
            1. Hmmmmmm... I'm still waiting TF. - Karlos on Sep 9, 3:55 AM
        2. Karlos, 1 Peter 1:11 does teach the preexistence of Christ, but - Tomas on Sep 13, 12:08 AM
          1. Re: Karlos, 1 Peter 1:11 does teach the preexistence of Christ, but - Karlos on Sep 13, 3:31 AM
            1. Well, if you think the verse did say Christ is God, it's OK, - Tomas on Sep 13, 3:46 AM
              1. Re: Well, if you think the verse did say Christ is God, it's OK, - Karlos on Sep 13, 4:15 AM
                1. Micah 5:2 does not say at all that he is God. - Tomas on Sep 13, 5:19 AM
                  1. Re: Micah 5:2 does not say at all that he is God. - Karlos on Sep 13, 10:15 PM
                    1. In Dan. 7:13, the Ancient of Days is of course the Father. - Tomas on Sep 27, 2:48 AM
                      1. Re: In Dan. 7:13, the Ancient of Days is of course the Father. - Karlos on Sep 27, 3:34 AM
                      2. The Hebrew word 'olam does not necessarily mean everlasting. - Tomas on Oct 4, 11:28 AM
                  2. Rev 22:6 - Inhinyero on Sep 15, 1:40 PM
                    1. The Lord God there is of course the Father. - Tomas on Sep 27, 2:51 AM
          2. How about his verse from Genesis - Inhinyero on Sep 15, 1:32 PM
            1. The 'us' in Gen. 1:26 are God and Christ. - Tomas on Sep 27, 2:59 AM
          3. Jesus is God - Inhinyero on Sep 15, 1:34 PM
            1. Titus 2:13 is better translated from Greek: "... of the great God and of - Tomas on Sep 27, 3:06 AM
              1. Re: Titus 2:13 is better translated from Greek: "... of the great God and of - Karlos on Sep 27, 4:51 AM
                1. Yes, God will appear too when Jesus comes. - Tomas on Oct 4, 12:05 PM
                  1. Re: Yes, God will appear too when Jesus comes. - Karlos on Oct 6, 5:59 AM
                    1. Probably at the same time, or close to the same time, they will come. - Tomas on Oct 18, 10:01 PM
      2. Actually this thread you started is your way of running away from the other thread TF. - Michael on Aug 27, 6:51 AM
        1. well if you cannot comment on something - tf on Sep 14, 10:22 PM
          1. I pity you TF. - Michael on Sep 27, 4:34 AM
    5. The 1 God of TF is actually the god spoken of by Manalo, not scriptures. - Michael on Aug 27, 8:23 AM
      1. what a loser tsk tsk - tf on Aug 27, 6:58 PM
        1. Talking to yourself TF? - Michael on Aug 28, 1:53 AM
          1. you talk to your God whoever they are... - tf on Sep 14, 10:19 PM
    6. still no answer from mike - tf on Sep 8, 10:17 PM
      1. Re: still no answer from mike - Karlos on Sep 9, 7:14 AM
        1. can you care to help mike - tf on Sep 11, 10:17 PM
          1. Help Mike? He is very capable of handling you. - Karlos on Sep 11, 10:54 PM
            1. ok you open a new thread for that - tf on Sep 12, 3:31 AM
              1. new thread? why? - Karlos on Sep 12, 8:19 PM
                1. so i can deal with you one on one - tf on Sep 12, 9:46 PM
                  1. huh? is that your answer? tsk tsk tsk? - Karlos on Sep 13, 1:32 AM
                    1. Hi Karlos, did you see my answer to your question about 1 Peter above? - Tomas on Sep 13, 2:17 AM
                    2. tf has just shut his mouth up, cannot refute 1 Peter 1:11, tsk! - Karlos on Sep 14, 11:44 PM
                      1. seems you have a problem with that verse my friend - tf on Sep 24, 3:03 AM
                      2. Re: seems you have a problem with that verse my friend - Karlos on Sep 24, 3:26 AM
     
  9. "Jesus Christ is the SAME yesterday, today and forever" (Heb. 13:8). View Thread - INCquisitor on Sep 20, 3:03 PM
    1. up for michael - INCquisitor on Sep 25, 4:02 AM
      1. Prior to your "yesterday", where was He? - Dean O'Gowan on Sep 25, 7:11 AM
        1. Prior to yesterday, Jesus was in the mind of God (1 Peter 1:20). - INCquisitor on Sep 25, 5:54 PM
          1. Re: Prior to yesterday, Jesus was in the mind of God (1 Peter 1:20). - Karlos on Sep 26, 12:15 AM
            1. Christ Jesus said he is a MAN (John 8:49), - INCquisitor on Sep 26, 3:56 PM
              1. huh? - Karlos on Sep 26, 11:33 PM
                1. God MADE Jesus Christ. When? - INCquisitor on Sep 27, 4:42 AM
                  1. Re: God MADE Jesus Christ. When? - Karlos on Sep 27, 5:37 AM
                    1. Jesus said he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the Father is the ONLY TRUE God (John 17:3). - INCquisitor on Sep 27, 7:59 AM
                      1. Re: Jesus said he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the Father is the ONLY TRUE God (John 17:3). - Karlos on Sep 27, 9:49 PM
                      2. It's a matter of values, my friend. - INCquisitor on Sep 28, 7:12 AM
                      3. A comment INCquisitor. - Michael on Sep 29, 5:22 AM
                      4. Re: Jesus said he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the Father is the ONLY TRUE God (John 17:3). - Karlos on Sep 27, 9:52 PM
                      5. Apostle Paul says, "compare spiritual things with spiritual." - INCquisitor on Sep 28, 7:14 AM
                      6. wrong answer, try again! - Karlos on Sep 29, 12:24 AM
          2. There is only One God. As there is only one air. - Dean O'Gowan on Sep 26, 11:16 PM
            1. Your inteligence CAN'T trump the words of Jesus. - INCquisitor on Sep 27, 6:15 AM
          3. INCquisitor, 1 Peter 1:20 does say Christ was foreknown before the - Tomas on Sep 27, 1:29 AM
            1. John 17:5 and Rev. 2:14 don't say that Christ was created.... - INCquisitor on Sep 27, 6:22 AM
              1. Rev. 3:14, not 2:14. - Tomas on Oct 4, 10:43 AM
                1. Re: Rev. 3:14, not 2:14. - INCquisitor on Oct 4, 3:48 PM
                  1. More about Christ. - Tomas on Oct 18, 9:43 PM
    2. Jesus created the world. Only God can create the world. There Jesus was God. - Dean O'Gowan on Sep 26, 10:46 PM
      1. But God created all things by, or through Jesus Christ, - Tomas on Sep 27, 1:35 AM
        1. Your belief is false. - INCquisitor on Sep 27, 1:30 PM
          1. OK, since you want Old Testament verses, - Tomas on Oct 18, 9:51 PM
      2. "By" and "through" could also mean "because of." - INCquisitor on Sep 27, 6:30 AM
        1. Did God created everything for and because of a man he created? - Michael on Sep 27, 10:59 AM
          1. Yes. That's God's will. - INCquisitor on Sep 27, 2:00 PM
            1. That shows how you see your god and who your god is. - Michael on Sep 28, 4:36 AM
              1. Everything God did was for His glory. - INCquisitor on Sep 28, 3:39 PM
                1. God created everything because of and for Himself. - Michael on Sep 29, 4:14 AM
    3. Only God does not change. - Michael on Sep 27, 11:20 AM
      1. So does Jesus. But Jesus is not God nor God/man. Jesus is a MAN. - INCquisitor on Sep 27, 1:24 PM
        1. And that contradicts the truth that "Only God does not change". - Michael on Sep 28, 5:01 AM
          1. Jesus says he is a man. HJeb. 13:8 says he is the same - INCquisitor on Sep 28, 7:25 AM
            1. INCquisitor, only Deity does not change. - Michael on Sep 28, 8:38 AM
              1. That;s what you say but the Bible says that Jesus, a MAN - INCquisitor on Sep 28, 4:10 PM
                1. So clearly now you don't believe that only Deity does not change. - Michael on Sep 29, 5:14 AM
                  1. Re: So clearly now you don't believe that only Deity does not change. - INCquisitor on Oct 4, 4:37 PM
                    1. Re: So clearly now you don't believe that only Deity does not change. - Michael on Oct 6, 11:57 PM
     
  10. John 20:27-29: Do not be unbelieving, but believing. View Thread - Michael on Oct 17, 1:34 AM
    1. Thomas did not believe that Jesus had RISEN. That's all. - INCquisitor on Oct 17, 4:35 PM
      1. Re: Thomas did not believe that Jesus had RISEN. That's all. - Michael on Oct 18, 1:47 AM
        1. Michael, look at the Greek inspired translation of what Thomas said. - Tomas on Oct 18, 2:36 AM
          1. I already did Tomas, even before you ask me to. - Michael on Oct 18, 3:38 AM
            1. Of course Thomas was amazed. - Tomas on Oct 18, 5:04 AM
              1. We can only speculate that Tomas. - Michael on Oct 18, 6:44 AM
                1. OK, surprised or not, he was talking about the Father. - Tomas on Oct 18, 7:24 AM
                  1. Well, if that's what you want to believe. - Michael on Oct 18, 10:28 AM
                    1. Well, that's how I see it in the Bible. - Tomas on Oct 18, 5:45 PM
     
 
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