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The Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church of Christ) Doctrines

The intention of this board is to discuss the teachings of the Iglesia Ni Cristo. The rules are: A) must respect others, B) no profanity, C) no name calling, D) no ANONYMOUS posting, and E) must post in English. Messages that contain profane languages or insulting will be deleted. What can be posted? You may post Church doctrines or questions about the doctrines but not questions about individual or member's deed/practice. As host/administrator, I will remain neutral. This means -I will not comment on any post. I will read the post and then make a judgement whether or not it violates any rule. If it does, it will be removed. Lastly, I'm an X-INC.
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  1. hey mike..is the baby jesus fake? View Thread - tf on Apr 4, 10:12 AM
    1. Have you easily forgotten what I said regarding the incarnation of the Son? - Michael on Apr 4, 1:59 PM
      1. so you admit that when jesus is a baby - tf on Apr 6, 9:22 PM
        1. He is like any human baby, except - Michael on Apr 6, 11:08 PM
          1. was he all powerfull and knowledgeable when he was a baby? - tf on Apr 7, 1:53 AM
            1. From the very instant He became flesh, he became like one of us, even in infancy. - Michael on Apr 22, 2:21 AM
              1. so you admit now that he has 2 consciouness - tf on Apr 22, 3:17 AM
                1. No. He is only one person. - Michael on Apr 22, 7:39 AM
                  1. 1 person but 2 consciousness for you - tf on Apr 22, 6:31 PM
                    1. You got it all wrong TF. One person, 1 consciousness. - Michael on Apr 22, 8:26 PM
                      1. oh really??so where is the all knowledgeable christ when he was a baby? - tf on Apr 23, 7:54 AM
                      2. Perhaps you will never understand TF. Go to this link and perhaps you'll understand. - Michael on Apr 23, 1:45 PM
                      3. u cannot evade the issue by showing link.. - tf on Apr 24, 8:19 AM
                      4. What can I say, if your understanding fails you? Do you know what is incarnation? - Michael on Apr 25, 1:03 PM
                      5. So to clarify, since he was incarnated, do you admit - Tomas on Apr 25, 5:31 PM
                      6. Re: So to clarify, since he was incarnated, do you admit - Michael on Apr 29, 11:43 AM
                      7. If he gave up the exercise of his divine attributes, as you say, - Tomas on May 2, 10:36 PM
                      8. To not know what happens in the Incarnation would really put one at a lost - Michael on May 15, 1:45 PM
                      9. Well, the Bible does not say what exactly happened at the incarnation. - Tomas on May 16, 7:24 PM
                      10. Re: Well, the Bible does not say what exactly happened at the incarnation. - Michael on May 16, 10:52 PM
                      11. You sure are being dogmatic about so many things, with no scriptural support - Tomas on May 17, 10:09 AM
                      12. Re: You sure are being dogmatic about so many things, with no scriptural support - Michael on May 18, 9:30 AM
                      13. Maybe it's a matter of semantics, about his attributes. - Tomas on May 24, 2:31 AM
                      14. Re: Maybe it's a matter of semantics, about his attributes. - Michael on May 27, 9:39 PM
                      15. Whatever, the Bible does not say if Jesus still had the attributes. - Tomas on May 30, 8:39 PM
                      16. Re: Whatever, the Bible does not say if Jesus still had the attributes. - Michael on Jun 22, 8:17 PM
                      17. Anyway, Jesus could be the Archangel, and he could be God at the same time. - Tomas on Jun 28, 3:45 AM
                      18. If that were so, then you make God to being an angel to just about anything you want - Michael on Jun 29, 2:37 AM
                      19. Not an angel. Only maybe the Archangel. Maybe - Tomas on Jul 5, 3:22 AM
                      20. Well then, you worship a creature in addition to God, as you say. I worship only God. - Michael on Jul 6, 5:49 AM
                      21. OK, I might worship a creature in addition to God, but that creature - Tomas on Jul 11, 8:06 PM
                      22. Quite a stand and belief you got there, worshiping a creature in addition to the Creator. - Michael on Jul 13, 7:29 AM
                      23. Michael, you say that worship of a creature is idolatry. Do you q - Tomas on Jul 19, 12:21 AM
                      24. Where in the "word of the Lord" does it say that... - INCquisitor on Jul 6, 6:12 AM
                      25. "divine" Jesus incarnated into the "human" Jesus? Where did you get that INCQUIS - Michael on Jul 6, 9:59 AM
                      26. Re: "divine" Jesus incarnated into the "human" Jesus? Where did you get that INC - tf on Sep 12, 3:58 AM
                      27. Incarnation - Inhinyero on Sep 12, 9:28 AM
                2. two will of Christ..one divine and human.... - inhinyero on Aug 27, 4:10 PM
                  1. May I ask you. - Michael on Aug 28, 2:05 AM
                    1. Nature and persons: - inhinyero on Aug 28, 2:22 PM
                      1. So, you believe Christ is only one person, not two, right? - Michael on Aug 28, 10:00 PM
                      2. two wills but one person - inhinyero on Aug 29, 10:13 AM
                      3. Inhinyero, my comments. - Michael on Aug 29, 12:30 PM
                      4. My response, Michael.... - inhinyero on Aug 29, 1:44 PM
                      5. Re: My response, Michael.... - Michael on Aug 30, 1:15 PM
                      6. Response to Michael 2.... - inhinyero on Aug 29, 2:12 PM
                      7. Re: Response to Michael 2.... - Michael on Aug 30, 12:33 PM
                      8. Two wills=two persons? - inhinyero on Aug 29, 10:30 AM
                      9. Re: Two wills=two persons? - Michael on Aug 29, 1:38 PM
                      10. two wills=two persons - inhinyero on Aug 29, 1:59 PM
                      11. Re: two wills=two persons - Michael on Aug 30, 11:56 AM
                      12. Scripture and Authority - inhinyero on Aug 29, 10:39 AM
                      13. Re: Scripture and Authority - Michael on Aug 29, 2:48 PM
                      14. Scripture and authority..Micheal - inhinyero on Aug 30, 9:57 AM
                      15. Scripture and Authority.....INHINYERO - Michael on Aug 31, 1:53 AM
                      16. Scripture and authority..Micheal part 2 - inhinyero on Aug 30, 10:06 AM
                      17. Scripture and Authority......INHINYERO part 2 - Michael on Aug 31, 3:27 AM
                      18. 1Cor 4:6 beyond what is written - inhinyero on Aug 30, 10:12 AM
                      19. But verse 6 does not say "written in those verses". - Tomas on Aug 30, 10:58 AM
                      20. go beyond what is written in the Bible. - inhinyero on Aug 30, 11:41 AM
                      21. It does not ban anything written in the Bible after 1 Cor. - Tomas on Aug 30, 1:03 PM
                      22. 1Cor..beyond what is written.... - inhiyero on Sep 2, 12:36 PM
                      23. 1 Tim. etc. were written in the Bible, even though - Tomas on Sep 13, 1:23 AM
                      24. Re: 1Cor 4:6 beyond what is written - Michael on Aug 31, 5:38 AM
                      25. 1Cor 4: 6 - inhiyero on Sep 2, 12:43 PM
                      26. Re: 1Cor 4: 6 - Michael on Sep 3, 6:55 AM
                      27. 1Cor 4...2nd part - inhiyero on Sep 2, 12:48 PM
                      28. Re: 1Cor 4...2nd part - Michael on Sep 3, 7:25 AM
                      29. Michael...1cor4...does not refer to Scripture - inhinyero on Sep 4, 1:29 PM
                      30. INHINYERO, it does. - Michael on Sep 5, 10:21 AM
                      31. Michael..re: 1Cor4:16...does not prove what you want it to say - inhenyero on Sep 11, 1:02 PM
                      32. On the Gospel of Mark.... - inhenyero on Sep 11, 1:12 PM
                      33. On Sacred Tradition - inhenyero on Sep 11, 1:33 PM
                      34. False Prophets..how to identify them? - Inhinyero on Sep 11, 1:40 PM
                      35. All who claim to be prophets today are false prophets, - Tomas on Sep 13, 1:47 AM
                      36. False Prophets..how to identify them? - Inhinyero on Sep 17, 8:02 AM
      2. Where did you get what you are saying? - INCquisitor on Jul 6, 6:05 AM
    2. the baby christ of michael is apparantly aLL KNOWING - tf on May 15, 1:34 AM
      1. Your understanding of what I'm saying is wrong. Read again and comprehend. - Michael on May 15, 1:51 PM
      2. he is actually the one not understanding his doctrine - tf on May 16, 6:01 AM
        1. paradox of baby jesus as God - inhinyero on Aug 28, 2:35 PM
    3. mike..ran away from this thread huh - tf on Aug 27, 3:44 AM
      1. Of course not TF, I'm not like you. - Michael on Aug 27, 8:37 AM
      2. so the baby christ alredy has full wisdom accdg toike - tf on Aug 27, 8:35 PM
        1. Your comprehension fails you TF. Quit accusing wrongly. It's what crucified Christ. - Michael on Aug 28, 1:14 AM
        2. Chris is God - inhinyero on Aug 28, 2:30 PM
          1. Of course you could be right, that Christ is God, - Tomas on Aug 30, 9:50 AM
            1. Christ it God - inhinyero on Aug 30, 10:24 AM
              1. I thought I made myself clear I am not in INC, when - Tomas on Aug 30, 11:27 AM
                1. Not INC - inhinyero on Aug 30, 11:44 AM
                  1. Not JW, they too are too dogmatic that Christ is not God. - Tomas on Aug 30, 1:16 PM
                2. Sola Scriptura contradiction. - inhinyero on Aug 30, 11:47 AM
                  1. Read the post above, where I defend sola sciptura. - Tomas on Aug 30, 1:23 PM
                    1. 1 cor 4:6 proves SS? - inhiyero on Sep 2, 12:51 PM
                      1. 1 Cor. 3:18-20 is not saying that worldly wisdom is what is written. - Tomas on Sep 13, 2:03 AM
                      2. 1Cor3:18 - Inhinyero on Sep 17, 8:08 AM
          2. while you say that Christ chooses to hide his wisdom while he is a baby - tf on Sep 11, 10:16 PM
     
  2. the 1 God of michael is actually a one WHAT.. View Thread - tf on Jun 3, 10:35 PM
    1. 325 AD..no trinity doctrine yet - tf on Jun 3, 10:39 PM
      1. Tf, if you have a problem with the Nicene council of 325 AD, settle it elsewhere? - Michael on Aug 27, 6:59 AM
        1. admit it or not - tf on Aug 27, 8:21 PM
          1. Think what you want TF. - Michael on Aug 28, 1:33 AM
          2. was influenced by your preachers - inhinyero on Aug 28, 2:54 PM
    2. 381 AD only then that they completged their trinity invention with the addition of HS - tf on Jun 3, 10:41 PM
      1. Regardless of councils, Catholic theologians started teaching trinity already in 175 AD. - Tomas on Jun 6, 9:26 PM
        1. Early Trinitarian Quotes - by Matt Slick - tumpak on Jun 16, 7:37 AM
          1. Your quotes from Polycarp, Justin Martin, and Ignatius do not - Tomas on Jun 21, 7:25 AM
        2. Regardless of councils, the deity of the Father, Son and the HS is taught in scriptures. - Michael on Aug 27, 7:52 AM
          1. The deity of the Father is taught in scriptures, but not deity of the other 2. - Tomas on Sep 13, 12:05 AM
          2. You mean scriptures as you INTERPRET them, don't you? - IN Cquisitor on Sep 14, 4:30 PM
      2. Have another problem with the RCC, TF? - Michael on Aug 27, 7:01 AM
        1. if not for the influence of the councils - tf on Aug 27, 7:01 PM
          1. That may be correct TF, but influence is different from believing. - Michael on Aug 28, 1:38 AM
          2. Proconceived Bias - inhinyero on Aug 28, 3:12 PM
    3. THE HOLY TRINITY - PROMDI FORReAST on Jun 17, 1:29 PM
      1. How can you be sure how many persons God is? - Tomas on Jun 21, 7:30 AM
    4. mike ran away from this thread also - tf on Aug 27, 3:46 AM
      1. Re: mike ran away from this thread also - Karlos on Aug 27, 4:31 AM
        1. no thought on that verse tf? - Karlos on Aug 28, 3:58 AM
          1. Hmmmmmm... I'm still waiting TF. - Karlos on Aug 28, 10:29 PM
            1. Hmmmmmm... I'm still waiting TF. - Karlos on Sep 9, 3:55 AM
        2. Karlos, 1 Peter 1:11 does teach the preexistence of Christ, but - Tomas on Sep 13, 12:08 AM
          1. Re: Karlos, 1 Peter 1:11 does teach the preexistence of Christ, but - Karlos on Sep 13, 3:31 AM
            1. Well, if you think the verse did say Christ is God, it's OK, - Tomas on Sep 13, 3:46 AM
              1. Re: Well, if you think the verse did say Christ is God, it's OK, - Karlos on Sep 13, 4:15 AM
                1. Micah 5:2 does not say at all that he is God. - Tomas on Sep 13, 5:19 AM
                  1. Re: Micah 5:2 does not say at all that he is God. - Karlos on Sep 13, 10:15 PM
                  2. Rev 22:6 - Inhinyero on Sep 15, 1:40 PM
          2. How about his verse from Genesis - Inhinyero on Sep 15, 1:32 PM
          3. Jesus is God - Inhinyero on Sep 15, 1:34 PM
      2. Actually this thread you started is your way of running away from the other thread TF. - Michael on Aug 27, 6:51 AM
        1. well if you cannot comment on something - tf on Sep 14, 10:22 PM
    5. The 1 God of TF is actually the god spoken of by Manalo, not scriptures. - Michael on Aug 27, 8:23 AM
      1. what a loser tsk tsk - tf on Aug 27, 6:58 PM
        1. Talking to yourself TF? - Michael on Aug 28, 1:53 AM
          1. you talk to your God whoever they are... - tf on Sep 14, 10:19 PM
    6. still no answer from mike - tf on Sep 8, 10:17 PM
      1. Re: still no answer from mike - Karlos on Sep 9, 7:14 AM
        1. can you care to help mike - tf on Sep 11, 10:17 PM
          1. Help Mike? He is very capable of handling you. - Karlos on Sep 11, 10:54 PM
            1. ok you open a new thread for that - tf on Sep 12, 3:31 AM
              1. new thread? why? - Karlos on Sep 12, 8:19 PM
                1. so i can deal with you one on one - tf on Sep 12, 9:46 PM
                  1. huh? is that your answer? tsk tsk tsk? - Karlos on Sep 13, 1:32 AM
                    1. Hi Karlos, did you see my answer to your question about 1 Peter above? - Tomas on Sep 13, 2:17 AM
                    2. tf has just shut his mouth up, cannot refute 1 Peter 1:11, tsk! - Karlos on Sep 14, 11:44 PM
     
  3. For Tomas only: Verses that speaks of Christ's Deity. View Thread - Michael on Aug 17, 3:51 AM
    1. the Logos was divine - tf on Aug 22, 3:31 AM
      1. Finally TF had a voice again. The Logos was divine. So? - Michael on Aug 22, 2:34 PM
        1. it was not me who admitted this truth - tf on Aug 25, 4:05 AM
          1. So TF, what now? - Michael on Aug 25, 11:47 AM
            1. so what now?? - tf on Sep 8, 3:53 AM
              1. Tell us what you and INC say and not what others say. That's what. - Michael on Sep 8, 10:55 PM
                1. stop crying... - tf on Sep 11, 10:22 PM
                  1. How can theos mean divine as adjective? - Tomas on Sep 13, 3:02 AM
                    1. Re: How can theos mean divine as adjective? - tf on Sep 14, 10:17 PM
    2. Why "For Tomas only?" - INCquisitor on Aug 25, 6:22 PM
      1. This was coming from one of our discussion in another thread. - Michael on Aug 25, 9:49 PM
      2. Herr Incquisitor, you are a New Yorker. Are you pals with this male New Yorker? - Oberst Ozzy Osborn on Aug 26, 6:43 PM
        1. Welcome to this forum. Is Pellien now in New York? - Tomas on Aug 30, 9:56 AM
    3. Michael, here is my response concerning those verses. - Tomas on Aug 30, 10:11 AM
      1. So verse John 1:1 is best translated "... and the Word was a god". - inhinyero on Aug 30, 10:18 AM
        1. No, I am not JW, even though I started my Bible study with them. - Tomas on Aug 30, 12:39 PM
      2. Re: Michael, here is my response concerning those verses. - Michael on Sep 9, 12:39 AM
        1. About the Word, and the word. - Tomas on Sep 13, 2:52 AM
     
  4. INCQUISITOR, TF, TOMAS, Paul speaks of the mystery of God. View Thread - Michael on Jul 3, 9:17 PM
    1. "Beware lest anyone cheats you through.... - INCquisitor on Jul 4, 5:55 AM
      1. So INCQUISITOR, what is the mystery of God Paul is saying in Colossians 2? - Michael on Jul 4, 12:03 PM
        1. Tell me what you think so I can have something to refute. - INCquisitor on Jul 4, 3:20 PM
          1. Do you not know QUITOR? Read Col. 2, or even the whole epistle of Paul to the Colossians. - Michael on Jul 4, 10:03 PM
            1. Tell us your understanding of Col. 2:9 so we know where you stand. - INCquisitor on Jul 5, 6:28 PM
              1. Does this mean you don't know the MYSTERY of GOD Paul speaks about in Col. 2? - Michael on Jul 6, 3:06 AM
                1. God does NOT "dwell bodily" in Christ. - INCquisitor on Jul 6, 6:03 AM
                  1. Ok. What can I say, if you don't know the Msytery OF God Paul speaks about in Col. 2. - Michael on Jul 6, 9:32 AM
    2. Michael, I believe I can explain the mystery. - Tomas on Jul 5, 1:23 AM
      1. Re: Michael, I believe I can explain the mystery. - Michael on Jul 5, 3:40 PM
        1. The mystery of God, does not mean mystery about God, - Tomas on Jul 11, 8:15 PM
          1. Mystery of God, God's mystery, it's all the same. It concerns and relates to God. - Michael on Jul 11, 8:55 PM
            1. It is His mystery about Christ. - Tomas on Jul 11, 9:18 PM
              1. What is about Christ is what is about God. - Michael on Jul 11, 9:44 PM
                1. Not necessarily. - Tomas on Jul 19, 12:47 AM
                  1. It sure is. - Michael on Jul 24, 3:35 AM
                    1. I suppose with Christ being so special, God hid all his treasures - Tomas on Jul 26, 1:35 AM
                      1. There is no need to suppose as you always do Tomas. Just believe what scriptures say. - Michael on Jul 26, 3:24 AM
                      2. I do believe all the scriptures say. I just don't go beyond that with dogma. - Tomas on Jul 26, 3:48 AM
                      3. Actually Tomas you go beyond what is written & take the unwritten as a basis for - Michael on Jul 26, 10:33 AM
                      4. Where did I base any dogmatic truth on unwritten? - Tomas on Aug 2, 5:35 AM
                      5. Re: Where did I base any dogmatic truth on unwritten? - Michael on Aug 9, 12:25 AM
                      6. What is not written, is not to be believed. - Tomas on Aug 9, 1:34 AM
                      7. Re: What is not written, is not to be believed. - Michael on Aug 9, 9:21 AM
                      8. What is not written, is not to be believed, though we are not forbidden to speculate. - Tomas on Aug 9, 10:29 AM
                      9. Forbidden or not, speculation must not be used to explain away scriptures. - Michael on Aug 10, 5:09 AM
                      10. I do not explain away scriptures, I interpret scriptures, to come to truth. - Tomas on Aug 16, 9:10 AM
                      11. Re: I do not explain away scriptures, I interpret scriptures, to come to truth. - Michael on Aug 19, 2:03 AM
                      12. Yes, I do. - Tomas on Aug 30, 9:28 PM
                      13. Re: Yes, I do. - Michael on Aug 31, 8:43 AM
                      14. I certainly do. So more discussion. - Tomas on Sep 13, 1:43 PM
    3. that verse do not apply to the trinitarians - tf on Jul 12, 2:17 AM
      1. What are you talking about? Do you even know what the mystery of God Paul says there? - Michael on Jul 12, 2:31 PM
        1. the sad truth is in the pudding my friend - tf on Jul 12, 10:24 PM
          1. Yes you never said anything about the topic at the OP. - Michael on Jul 13, 12:20 AM
            1. in fact it was the trinity that still remains a mystery - tf on Jul 19, 3:11 AM
              1. Yet still, youl evade the issue at the OP. Do you know the mystery of God spoken by Paul? - Michael on Jul 19, 8:04 PM
            2. tf, we would not know the nature of God until Jesus revealed it. - Dean O'Gowan on Jul 19, 6:54 AM
              1. You version of John 1:18 is an ALTERED version. - INCquisitor on Jul 20, 9:34 AM
                1. Don't you get it? Don was speaking metaphorically and not literally comparing God with air - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 20, 6:47 PM
                2. I mean, Dean was speaking...sorry, Dean. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 20, 6:49 PM
              2. Sorry Dean, but your analogy and illustration of Trinity is erroneous. - Michael on Jul 24, 3:42 AM
                1. Michael, no analogy is perfect. You can knock me down, but see if you can give a better - Dean O'Gowan on Aug 2, 8:35 PM
                  1. I know. Not for knocking you down Dean. Just saying that Air does not illustrate trinity - Michael on Aug 3, 6:32 AM
                  2. Michael, you are saying God is like time? Past , present & future? - Dean O'Gowan on Aug 3, 3:47 PM
                    1. Dean, read again what I said in my post. This time carefully. - Michael on Aug 4, 1:02 AM
     
  5. Does anyone know why Christ built HIS church? View Thread - INCquisitor on Apr 29, 7:25 AM
    1. The main reason is we have to be saved in the church, - Tomas on May 2, 11:04 PM
      1. Re: The main reason is we have to be saved in the church, - Michael on Jul 6, 11:28 AM
        1. Sure the church does not save us, only God saves us, but1 - Tomas on Jul 19, 12:14 AM
          1. I'm glad Tomas, that you agree that the church does not save. - Michael on Jul 22, 7:37 AM
            1. God saves us through Jesus, in the church. - Tomas on Jul 26, 1:57 AM
              1. God is the Savior, not the church. - Michael on Jul 26, 11:26 AM
                1. Of course. But he saves us in the church. - Tomas on Aug 1, 11:13 PM
                  1. You keep saying "in the church". I think it sends a wrong message. - Michael on Aug 4, 6:25 AM
                    1. When we are saved, we are added to the church. - Tomas on Aug 9, 6:09 AM
                      1. That's right. - Michael on Aug 12, 10:33 PM
    2. What church do you mean? Building or what? Just to be clear. - Michael on Jun 29, 3:41 AM
      1. Do you honestly believe that Jesus built a building? - INCquisitor on Jun 29, 4:43 PM
        1. I don't but some people does. It's only for clarification. - Michael on Jun 29, 10:15 PM
    3. How to Find the True Church... - Dean O'Gowan on Jun 29, 4:57 AM
      1. Jesus said, "By their fruits you shall know them" (Matt. 7:15-20). - INCquisitor on Jun 29, 4:41 PM
      2. Yes IncQ, the Church Jesus founded teaches the teachings of Jesus. - Dean O'Gowan on Jun 29, 7:33 PM
        1. You LIE Dean. The RCC was not founded by Jesus. - INCquisitor on Jun 30, 5:01 PM
        2. I'm afraid you have poor education IncQ. Who shall we believe you or world encyclopedias? - Dean O'Gowan on Jun 30, 5:37 PM
        3. More encyclopedias affirm Jesus founded the Catholic Church. - Dean O'Gowan on Jun 30, 5:39 PM
        4. Here are more encyclopedias. Where is your reference? None! - Dean O'Gowan on Jun 30, 5:40 PM
        5. And more. You have none! You only have erroneous doctrines. - Dean O'Gowan on Jun 30, 5:42 PM
        6. And some more! You only have false teachings of the Iglesias. - Dean O'Gowan on Jun 30, 5:44 PM
      3. How to find the true church - inhinyero on Aug 1, 11:35 AM
    4. This is the Church Jesus founded. Which church do you belong to? Who founded it? - Dean O'Gowan on Jun 29, 5:07 AM
      1. The RCC was founded by a few overseers or bishops of the - INCquisitor on Jun 30, 7:03 PM
        1. The Claim of the RCC being founded - inhinyero on Aug 1, 11:38 AM
      2. Do you have reference that the Catholic Church was founded by "a few - Dean O'Gowan on Jul 1, 12:17 PM
        1. Apostle Paul prophesied the departing from the faith of some overseers. - INCquisitor on Jul 1, 7:15 PM
          1. Yes. SOME not ALL. - Michael on Jul 1, 9:33 PM
            1. I didn't say ALL, did I? - INCquisitor on Jul 2, 4:39 AM
              1. Yes you said "SOME", not "ALL". - Michael on Jul 2, 5:50 AM
          2. IncQ, who should we believe? You or Jesus? - Dean O'Gowan on Jul 2, 6:16 AM
            1. It is not the Holy Spirit that guides the RCC. - INCquisitor on Jul 4, 3:56 PM
            2. If you don't agree that the Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. - Dean O'Gowan on Jul 4, 8:51 PM
              1. Jesus said, "By their fruit you shall know them" (Matt. 7;15-20). - INCquisitor on Jul 7, 3:58 AM
                1. By their fruits... - inhinyero on Aug 1, 11:44 AM
              2. So what fruits has your church bore? What is the name of your church? - Dean O'Gowan on Jul 8, 4:13 PM
                1. For one, the FCCC does not teach that Mary is the "mother of God." - INCquisitor on Jul 12, 3:32 AM
                2. What is the FCCC? - Dean O Gowan on Jul 12, 9:28 AM
                  1. FCCC stands for First-Century Church of Christ. - INCquistor on Jul 13, 6:48 PM
                    1. FCCC..1st century Chuch... - inhinyero on Aug 1, 11:46 AM
                      1. Now don't be so harsh on him. Maybe the New Testament was finished being written - Tomas on Aug 1, 11:19 PM
                      2. The NT did not exist in one volume... - Inhinyero on Aug 4, 1:30 PM
                      3. OK, maybe no Christian near the end of the first century had ` - Tomas on Aug 9, 6:19 AM
                    2. FCCC...is this the name of the early Church? - Inhinyero on Aug 4, 1:35 PM
                  2. And you are the founder of this FCCC? - Dean O'Gowan on Jul 13, 8:57 PM
    5. According to scriptures: - Michael on Jul 2, 10:06 PM
      1. Yes, I agree, we are heirs of Christ's body, the church. - Tomas on Jul 5, 2:34 AM
        1. We are heirs of Christ's body? That's weird. - Michael on Jul 5, 1:53 PM
          1. OK, sorry, I misunderstood you a little. - Tomas on Jul 11, 8:02 PM
            1. Glad you have that cleared and agree. - Michael on Jul 13, 3:44 AM
              1. Sure the church is important also for the reasons you stated, but - Tomas on Jul 19, 12:08 AM
                1. What I posted is not about the importance of the church Tomas. - Michael on Jul 22, 6:36 AM
                  1. I did not say we have to be saved by the church, but - Tomas on Jul 26, 2:08 AM
                    1. Re: I did not say we have to be saved by the church, but - Michael on Jul 28, 4:17 PM
                      1. True what you say. And I did not really mean we are saved - Tomas on Aug 1, 11:27 PM
                      2. The church was not established as necessary for our salvation. - Michael on Aug 4, 6:15 AM
                      3. It sure is necessary for our salvation, we can't be saved outside it. - Tomas on Aug 9, 6:42 AM
                      4. No. We are saved and added to the church, and not saved by being added to the church. - Michael on Aug 12, 10:43 PM
                      5. OK, we are not saved only by being added to the church. - Tomas on Aug 16, 6:33 AM
                      6. No. We are saved and added to the church, and not saved by being added to the church. - Michael on Aug 17, 2:23 AM
                      7. But that is not what you say in your comment below. - Tomas on Aug 30, 11:13 PM
                      8. Re: But that is not what you say in your comment below. - Michael on Sep 1, 12:46 AM
                      9. As I see it, that does not make much sense. - Tomas on Sep 13, 12:32 PM
    6. Now, it's your turn INCQUISITOR, what is your answer to your question at the OP? - Michael on Jul 4, 9:06 PM
    7. What do you say is the reason why Christ builds His church? What's your answer to your OP? - Michael on Jul 8, 12:55 PM
      1. UP for INCQUISITOR - Michael on Jul 9, 4:30 PM
    8. INCquisitor, why did Christ built His church? - Michael on Jul 13, 7:26 PM
      1. Don't know the answer INCquisitor? What do you tell those who are members of FCCC? - Michael on Aug 13, 11:49 AM
     
  6. Ask yourself. View Thread - Michael on Jun 15, 8:38 PM
    1. My answers: - Tomas on Jun 21, 8:17 AM
      1. Re: My answers: - Michael on Jul 2, 5:01 AM
        1. Re: My answers: - tf on Jul 2, 10:46 PM
          1. Go back to the post and answer properly. There are four questions, in case you don't know. - Michael on Jul 2, 11:15 PM
            1. I higlighted those two so far - tf on Jul 3, 1:23 AM
              1. Elucidate? Answer each questions, and I'll be most willing to comment after. - Michael on Jul 3, 11:28 AM
        2. Michael, I disagree mainly concerning your answer - Tomas on Jul 5, 2:20 AM
          1. How about the rest of my answers Tomas? - Michael on Jul 5, 2:38 PM
            1. In verse 15, the name he was referring to, - Tomas on Jul 11, 9:01 PM
              1. 'I AM has sent me to you.' - Michael on Jul 11, 9:55 PM
                1. OK, when God said "I WILL BE has sent me to you", - Tomas on Jul 19, 1:28 AM
                  1. God's answer is plain, direct, and clear. No need to explain by speculation. - Michael on Jul 22, 3:57 AM
                    1. It has to be explained to make the Bible harmonize. - Tomas on Jul 26, 2:58 AM
                      1. Of course Tomas. - Michael on Jul 26, 11:15 AM
                      2. Yes, his name represents what he is. So he will - Tomas on Aug 2, 1:35 AM
                      3. Not calling God by the name YHWH does not mean that it ceased to be His name. - Michael on Aug 3, 7:49 AM
                      4. OK, so you agree with INC on this doctrine. - Tomas on Aug 9, 10:52 AM
                      5. I am not aware of INC having this stand. It doesn't matter anyway. - Michael on Aug 9, 11:51 AM
                      6. Yes, that is what the minister one time was telling me. - Tomas on Aug 9, 12:05 PM
                      7. Nonetheless, who is YHWH? - Michael on Aug 9, 12:43 PM
                      8. YHWH is the Father. At least that was his former name. - Tomas on Aug 16, 7:02 AM
                      9. For you Tomas perhaps. Obviously not for the Jews. - Michael on Aug 17, 4:21 AM
                      10. The Jews also believe YHWH is the Father. - Tomas on Aug 30, 10:24 PM
                      11. "Father" in the sense that YHWH is the creator of all things. - Michael on Sep 2, 7:40 AM
                      12. But also in the sense of fatherhood. - Tomas on Sep 13, 11:36 AM
            2. Concerning your other 3 answers, I generally agree with you. - Tomas on Jul 11, 9:07 PM
              1. I'm glad you do. - Michael on Jul 11, 10:15 PM
                1. That last sentence of yours makes no sense. - Tomas on Jul 19, 1:34 AM
                  1. Makes no sense to you Tomas, I see. - Michael on Jul 20, 10:24 PM
                    1. You're right, Michael, Tomas doesn't understand Trinity. If he would, he would have never - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 21, 7:48 AM
                      1. I understand a huge amount about trinity, I have read - Tomas on Jul 26, 3:16 AM
                      2. Good that we can agree on something. Now do the next logical step and believe in it. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 26, 9:38 AM
                      3. God does not confuse me or you or INC members. - Tomas on Aug 2, 1:43 AM
                      4. As long as the devil clouds your mind with your false personal doctrine: " We are not - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Aug 2, 10:28 AM
                      5. Sorry, that doctrine is not from the devil but directly - Tomas on Aug 9, 10:31 AM
                    2. OK, Michael, you have explained what you really meant. - Tomas on Jul 26, 3:07 AM
                      1. There is no room for possibilities or uncertainties when it comes to having faith. - Michael on Jul 26, 8:35 AM
                      2. Oh yes, there is. When the devil is reigning over you, there is! - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 26, 9:40 AM
                      3. Michael, I have faith in what the Bible tells us for certain. - Tomas on Aug 2, 2:46 AM
                      4. Well Tomas, that is not just what shows in your posts. - Michael on Aug 3, 11:22 PM
                      5. It does show in my posts, even if you don't think so. - Tomas on Aug 9, 11:31 AM
                      6. As you say so Tomas. - Michael on Aug 9, 12:41 PM
                      7. Yes, I do. - Tomas on Aug 16, 6:59 AM
                      8. You do Tomas? - Michael on Aug 17, 4:10 AM
                      9. Yes. - Tomas on Aug 30, 10:53 PM
                2. Please explsin. - INCquisitor on Aug 10, 6:33 AM
                  1. There is nothing to explain here INCQUISITOR. - Michael on Aug 10, 9:52 AM
        3. Re: My answers: - INCquisitor on Aug 2, 6:13 PM
          1. My comments on your answers INCquisitor. - Michael on Aug 3, 7:21 AM
            1. Re: My comments on your answers INCquisitor. - INCquisitor on Aug 10, 5:12 AM
              1. INCQUISTOR, why do you openly lie about Acts 2:36? - Michael on Aug 10, 11:17 AM
                1. I didn't lie about Acts 2:36. Peter preached what he learned from Jesus. - INCquisitor on Aug 10, 3:06 PM
                  1. Apparently you did INCquisitor. - Michael on Aug 13, 11:47 AM
     
  7. The Son of Man ascended to heaven, to where He was before. What does this tell you? View Thread - Michael on Jul 8, 12:24 AM
    1. John 6:62 is a parable like the parables written from - INCquisitor on Jul 8, 4:55 AM
      1. John 6:62 , a parable? - Michael on Jul 8, 12:52 PM
        1. Of course John 6:62 is a parable. - INCquisitor on Jul 10, 5:46 PM
          1. Of course it's not. There is nothing parabolic in this statement of Jesus. - Michael on Jul 10, 11:07 PM
            1. Is there a verse that says where Jesus was before literally? - INCquistor on Jul 13, 7:08 PM
              1. You have not properly responded to my post INCquisitor. - Michael on Jul 13, 8:29 PM
              2. There are many verses in the Bible in which Jesus said: "The Father has sent me." - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 18, 7:06 AM
                1. John wrote that he was sent from God (John 1:6). - INCquisitor on Jul 18, 7:37 PM
                  1. No, because he didn't exist before all things were created, like Jesus. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 19, 10:13 AM
                    1. Jesus was talking metaphorically. - INCquisitor on Jul 20, 3:41 PM
                      1. Yeah right......metaphorically. In your dreams...metaphorically speaking. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 20, 3:57 PM
              3. Where was Jesus before? - inhinyero on Aug 28, 2:45 PM
    2. Yes, Jesus was in heaven before, probably in his preexistence, - Tomas on Jul 11, 7:20 PM
      1. Certainly, the Son was in heaven before He came down to do His Father's will on earth. - Michael on Jul 13, 2:06 AM
        1. Please show scripture that says "the son was in heaven before - INCquistor on Jul 13, 7:12 PM
          1. John 6:38 - Michael on Jul 13, 8:37 PM
            1. John 6:38 does not make Jesus is God. - INCquisitor on Jul 18, 7:24 PM
              1. You asked for scripture. Do you deny the verse I cited [John 6:38]? - Michael on Jul 18, 11:28 PM
                1. Christ's coming from heaven does not mean he WAS God. - INCquisitor on Jul 19, 5:57 PM
                  1. The undeniable truth is that Christ came from heaven. He came from God. - Michael on Jul 19, 7:53 PM
                    1. Don't you understand what the words "only" and "true" mean? - INCquisitor on Jul 20, 3:56 PM
                      1. In that case, you read scriptures as a list of isolated statements. No context whatsoever. - Michael on Jul 20, 9:03 PM
          2. John 17:5 Jesus enjoyed glory with His Father even before the world began. - Dean O'Gowan on Jul 13, 8:51 PM
            1. Exactly. If someone shares something with you, you have to exist. Nobody can share - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 18, 7:12 AM
              1. Tell me wise guy, what was Jesus before the world began? - INCquisitor on Jul 18, 7:33 PM
                1. God. He is the Word. [John 1:1, Rev. 19:13] - Michael on Jul 18, 10:51 PM
                  1. Does John 1:1 tell us that Jesus is the word? - INCquisitor on Jul 20, 3:28 PM
                    1. INCquisitor, you still can't see who John testifies about in his writings? - Michael on Jul 20, 7:11 PM
                      1. Apparently, INCquisitor again is stalled by this post. - Michael on Jul 24, 10:31 AM
                2. He was the Archangel, or God the Son, or both, or neither. - Tomas on Jul 18, 10:56 PM
                3. The Word, you wise guy. It became flesh = baby boy. Now, with whom shared God the glory - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 19, 9:52 AM
                  1. Show me scripture that says Jesus WAS the word that became flesh. - INCquisitor on Jul 20, 3:44 PM
                    1. Who else became flesh? Nobody? - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 20, 3:53 PM
                4. Where was Jesus? - inhinyero on Aug 28, 3:05 PM
          3. UP FOR FCCC INCquisitor - Michael on Jul 18, 12:34 AM
        2. Michael, tell me when did Jesus ascend to heaven before John 3:13. - Tomas on Jul 18, 10:41 PM
          1. Tomas, Jesus was referring to the immediate time when He descended & become flesh. - Michael on Jul 18, 11:00 PM
            1. But in that verse he also asserted he was the only man - Tomas on Jul 18, 11:27 PM
              1. Re: But in that verse he also asserted he was the only man - Michael on Aug 4, 2:57 AM
                1. OK then, I will then look for your other posts and respond there. - Tomas on Aug 9, 7:56 AM
          2. Let me answer this again Tomas. - Michael on Jul 22, 7:30 AM
            1. He clearly told Nicodemus he has ascended to heaven, not - Tomas on Jul 26, 1:16 AM
              1. Jesus was in heaven, in His Father's heart? - Michael on Aug 4, 2:47 AM
                1. Exactly, in his loving heart. - Tomas on Aug 9, 8:51 AM
                  1. Well then Tomas, so be it with you. - Michael on Aug 9, 11:07 AM
                    1. Well, then Michael, so be it with you. - Tomas on Aug 9, 11:59 AM
                      1. Tomas, where is the lie in what I posted? - Michael on Aug 9, 1:04 PM
                      2. In your interpretation, Jesus would have lied by using the wrong tenses. - Tomas on Aug 16, 9:53 AM
                      3. Not so Tomas. - Michael on Aug 23, 4:08 AM
                      4. But yes so, Michael. - Tomas on Aug 30, 7:41 AM
                      5. And so Tomas - Michael on Sep 2, 10:32 AM
                      6. Ascending to heaven, creation. - Tomas on Sep 13, 10:21 AM
     
  8. Michael, do you agree with me that divorce is sin except if the unbelieving spouse View Thread - Tomas on Aug 16, 7:15 AM
    1. Here's what I can say to that Tomas. - Michael on Aug 23, 11:11 AM
      1. So we agree in part. - Tomas on Aug 30, 10:46 AM
        1. Re: So we agree in part. - Michael on Sep 2, 11:08 AM
          1. Did you flip-flop on the issue of adultery? - Tomas on Sep 13, 9:02 AM
     
  9. INCquisitor: On Eph.2:15, the One New Man (others are welcome to join) View Thread - Michael on Aug 21, 10:01 AM
    1. Important correction! Missing word* in CAPS! Sorry about that. - Michael on Aug 21, 10:27 AM
      1. Oh, you don't agree. Too bad. - Tomas on Aug 30, 4:01 PM
        1. So you agree with INC and FCCC. That's what's too bad Tomas. - Michael on Sep 3, 4:46 AM
          1. Here is why I find your interpretation inadequate. - Tomas on Sep 13, 8:36 AM
     
  10. Paul says that Christ was rich, yet became poor. How did He became poor? View Thread - Michael on May 16, 10:49 PM
    1. Of course that has nothing to do with material wealth. - Tomas on May 17, 10:22 AM
      1. Re: Of course that has nothing to do with material wealth. - Michael on May 18, 8:02 AM
        1. I agree with what you say there, except I am not so dogmatic - Tomas on May 24, 4:08 AM
          1. It's not about being dogmatic or not. It's about the revealed truth. - Michael on May 25, 7:06 AM
            1. You are dogmatic that it is the revealed truth he did preexist, - Tomas on May 30, 11:47 PM
              1. The truth is He preexisted, even from eternity. - Michael on Jun 15, 9:01 PM
                1. I do accept that both sets of verses are true, that is why - Tomas on Jun 21, 7:36 AM
                  1. Re: I do accept that both sets of verses are true, that is why - Michael on Jun 22, 9:21 PM
                    1. Do you claim that God, even though he is omnipotent, - Tomas on Jun 28, 2:09 AM
                      1. That is not what it means to be omnipotent. - Michael on Jun 29, 3:04 AM
                      2. That link does not analyze God's omnipotence. - Tomas on Jul 5, 3:03 AM
                      3. Yes, it directly does not. What I said is that, it is a related link. - Michael on Jul 6, 3:26 AM
                      4. OK, let's discuss omnipotence. - Tomas on Jul 11, 8:52 PM
                      5. Re: OK, let's discuss omnipotence. - Michael on Jul 11, 9:39 PM
                      6. Sometimes you disagree even when you really agree. - Tomas on Jul 19, 1:57 AM
                      7. Not the case Tomas. - Michael on Jul 20, 6:29 AM
                      8. Well, you are quibbling about semantics, to create a disagreement where I agree. - Tomas on Jul 26, 4:04 AM
                      9. Being clear is always a good thing. I don't create disagreement, when I see none. - Michael on Jul 26, 9:08 AM
                      10. OK, if you now want to discuss only where we disagree, let's do that. - Tomas on Aug 2, 6:01 AM
                      11. Of course, we only discuss those matters where we disagree. - Michael on Aug 8, 10:25 AM
                      12. Well, occasionally we discuss and we end up agreeing on something. - Tomas on Aug 8, 10:32 PM
                      13. Re: Well, occasionally we discuss and we end up agreeing on something. - Michael on Aug 9, 2:18 AM
                      14. OK, more about God and Christ. - Tomas on Aug 9, 5:46 AM
                      15. Re: OK, more about God and Christ. - Michael on Aug 10, 9:42 AM
                      16. More about God and Christ, and about souls. - Tomas on Aug 16, 8:07 AM
                      17. Re: More about God and Christ, and about souls. - Michael on Aug 17, 12:14 PM
                      18. Still more about God and Christ, and about souls. - Tomas on Aug 30, 10:15 PM
                      19. Re: Still more about God and Christ, and about souls. - Michael on Sep 5, 10:44 AM
                      20. More about God and Christ, and about souls. - Tomas on Sep 13, 6:37 AM
     
 
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