| I know that Jesus knows better than FYM, me, or your Benedict.July 2 2009 at 7:43 AM | Tomas (Login TomasSedlacek) |
Response to Tomas, like Felix Manalo, thinks he knows better than Jesus. |
| Jesus is the only human who is infallible, so he knows better than anyone else.
Beatrice:
Both think they can teach better than the church Jesus founded.
Both reject the church Jesus founded and both believe they can interpret the Scripture better than the church Jesus authorized to teach.
Both believe they are the pillar and bulwark of truth, not the church Jesus founded.
They completely disregard the teaching of Our Lord when He said, "...and there shall be ONE FOLD and ONE SHEPHERD." John 10:16
Tomas believes too that anyone can found another church. Where is that in the Bible? Which chapter and verse?
Tomas:
Look at Luke 9:49-50. 'Then John said in reply, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow in our company". Jesus said to him, "Do not prevent him, for whoever is not against you is for you." '
My explanation: false gospels are against the apostles, but other churches are for the apostles. And I do not disregard the teaching of John 10:16. Good churches all belong in one fold and have one shepherd, Jesus.
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Beatrice:
Therefore if even satan would found a church and call it "Church of Christ", then it must be a denomination of the truth church because it's called "Church of Christ" and he has his own interpretation of the Scripture.
Where are denominations authorized in the Bible Tomas?
Tomas:
As I said above, they are authorized in Luke 9:49-50. But if Satan founds a church and calls it Church of Christ, then it is a false gospel. I know one with that name, the Church of Christ Scientist. Any church connected with Satan fails to have at least one doctrine needed for salvation. That is abundantly true of the Church of Christ Scientist, so they are one of the false gospels.
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Beatrice:
The primary root cause of this is the false belief of individual interpretation of the Bible. Protestant churches cannot teach that they are the 'One True Church' which Jesus Christ founded because none of them can trace their founding back to Jesus Christ when He founded His Church in Matt 16:18.
If all Protestantism was united in the Holy Spirit, then how can you explain that Calvinists believe Baptism is a Sacrament, but Baptists do not? How do you explain that Lutherans say that Mary is the Mother of GOD, but Evangelicals say she is not? How do you explain that Episcopalians believe man has free will, yet Presbyterians deny it? You can go on and on through all 28,000 plus protestant sects and see differences as presented in this sampling.
If all Christian Churches taught the same thing then there would be only one Church, as there was for the first 1500 years of Christianity.
Tomas:
There was not one denomination during the first 1500 years of Christianity. There were many, like the Catholic church, the Orthodox, the Monophysite, the Hussite, the Waldensians, the Petrobrusians, the Lollards, the Ebionites, the Donatists, the Arians, the Theodotian Monarchians, the Modalists, the Montanists, the Utraquists, the Unity of Brethren (Unitas Fratrum), and others.
The reasons why there is a lot of beliefs among the Protestants and others, is that the Bible is sometimes hard to understand. Therefore differences in beliefs are allowed in the Bible, see Romans 14. Only on beliefs necessary for salvation is no difference allowed.
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Beatrice:
There are many Bible verses which tell us that individual interpretation of the Bible simply cannot be done without divine assistance...
Luke 24:45, "Then He opened their minds, that they might understand the Scriptures."
So it took Jesus Christ to open the minds of the Apostles so that they could teach others in the truth.
Do you believe likewise that Jesus Christ opened the minds of each of the leaders of all those 28,000 protestant churches? If so, why is there so much disagreement between them?
Tomas:
When you look at the context, Jesus did not make them understand all scriptures, but those that explain why Jesus had to die. Paul later admitted that he and others did not understand everything, see 1 Cor. 13:9-12. With the help of the Bible, the minds of all true preachers are opened about why Jesus had to die. But not on everything, see Rom. 14.
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Beatrice:
Acts 8:27-40, the eunuch was trying to read Isaiah when Philip asked him, "Do you understand what you are reading?" But he said, "Why, how can I, unless someone shows me?"
Since Philip had been filled by the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:4, he was able to explain the truth of Isaiah to the eunuch.
2Pet 1:20, St. Peter said, "This then you must understand first of all, that NO PROPHECY OF SCRIPTURE IS MADE BY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION." I do not see how Peter could have said it any plainer than he did here. Why do Protestants ignore verses such as this one?
Tomas:
Protestants do not ignore such verses, in fact, they explain them better than RCC. Look at verse 20 carefully, Peter was explaining how prophecy was made. It was not made by private interpretation, but by God's inspiration. But we are free to interpret even prophecy, we are not making prophecy, but merely interpreting prophecy already made.
The eunuch did not understand that prophecy of Isaiah, but that's OK. That is why the church has experts in the Bible like elders. But nobody understands the Bible perfectly except Jesus himself.
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2Pet 3:16-17, St. Peter said, "...In these Epistles there are certain things difficult to understand, WHICH THE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE DISTORT, JUST AS THEY DO THE REST OF THE SCRIPTURES ALSO, TO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION. YOU THEREFORE, BRETHREN, SINCE YOU KNOW THIS BEFOREHAND, BE ON YOUR GUARD LEST, CARRIED AWAY BY THE ERROR OF THE FOOLISH, YOU FALL AWAY FROM YOUR STEADFASTNESS."
Here is a very clear warning that it is easy to fall into error by private interpretation of Scripture.
Beatrice:
Sorry Tomas, your private interpretations of the Scripture are not acceptable. They will lead you to your own destruction.
Remember this scenario of Judgment Day and many will not be able to stand before Jesus on that day. "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on Judgment Day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!" [Mt 7:21-23].
Tomas:
Yes, unfortunately there are many in false gospels, that perform satanic miracles, drive out demons and prophesy falsely. Even in large false gospels, like Christian Science, the Kimbanguist church, the Brotherhood of the Cross and Star, and the International Ministry Growing in Grace. Therefore in the millennium Jesus will tell them away from me. Then they will have to repent and if they refuse to repent, they will perish in hell like others who refuse.
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Beatrice:
Tomas, when you reject the church of Jesus, you reject Jesus himself. Jesus said, "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."
Therefore Tomas, when you reject the church Jesus founded, you are going to hell.
But then in hell, you will have the company of the members of the "Iglesia ni Cristo". It would not be so bad, would it? I am sure Jimsky and Davaoguy would enjoy your company.
Tomas:
I do not reject the church Jesus founded, I belong in it, and so do many in the INC. And in hell people will not enjoy each other's company, they will perish there. No more thinking, dead forever. INC is just as wrong about this as your RCC. But some churches have it right, like Seventh-Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Advent Christian Church, Church of God (Seventh Day), Living Church of God, Dawn Bible Students Association, Assemblies of Yahweh, the Way International and many others also understand the nature of hell. Look at John 3:16 etc.
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| Responses- Luke 9:49-50 does not authorize anyone to found other churches. - Beatrice77 on Jul 3, 6:01 AM
- On the contrary Paul warns of another gospel. - Beatrice77 on Jul 3, 6:06 AM
- I finally agreed with BEATS! - Jim on Jul 3, 7:55 AM
- Sure, you agree with her that Church is one organization. - Tomas on Jul 4, 2:44 AM
- Beatrice, other gospels are those that disagree with - Tomas on Jul 4, 2:29 AM
- Beatrice, not authorize, but allow. That is enough. - Tomas on Jul 4, 2:15 AM
- Thanks Tomas for your private interpretation. They are still "other gospels." - Beatrice77 on Jul 5, 8:34 AM
- So to you even the Eastern Ortodox church is another gospel? - Tomas on Jul 9, 4:34 PM
- Sorry for my misspelling, it should be "Orthodox". - Tomas on Jul 9, 4:52 PM
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