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It is. For if you can't tell us, then you have no basis of saying it is a figure of speech

May 22 2016 at 10:11 AM
Michael  (Login tong2012)


Response to It is immaterial what figure of speech is John 6:38.

 

John 6:38 does not speak o Christ as preexisting in heaven.

The Bible says there is only one God (Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Cor. 8:6). The Bible also says that Jesus is a MAN (John 8:40; Acts 17:31; 1 Tim. 2:5).

Therefore, there is no way that Jesus preexisted as God IN ADDITION to the God who SENT him and whose WILL Jesus was sent to do (John 6:38).

Therefore, the idea that John 6:38 speaks of Christ as preexisting in heaven is a TWISTED interpretation of what Jesus said as "coming down from heaven" which, to me, is simply a figure of speech to describe his "coming from God" or being "SENT by God" (John 17:3).

ME:

There is only one God. Jesus is a man. No problem there.

Now, you said "Therefore, the idea that John 6:38 speaks of Christ as preexisting in heaven is a TWISTED interpretation of what Jesus said as "coming down from heaven" which, to me, is simply a figure of speech to describe his "coming from God" or being "SENT by God" (John 17:3)."

The verse says "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."

Where is the figure of speech there? The statement is plain and simple. If you say that the statement "For I have come down from heaven" is a figure of speech, please explain how it is a figure of speech. You can start by telling us what type of figure of speech it is, and show us why you say it is such type. Is it a simile, metaphor, hyperbole, personification, synecdoche, or what?

INCQUISITOR:

"For I came down from heaven," is simply Jesus' another way of saying, "For I proceeded forth and came from God" (John 8:42).

I don't believe Jesus intended to say that he pre-existed in heaven as God. First of all, Jesus acknowledged that he is a MAN (John 8:40). Second of all, Jesus acknowledged that the Father is the ONLY TRUE God (John 17:3).

Therefore, if Jesus did not pre-exist as God, it would have made no sense for Jesus to have pre-existed in heaven as anyone or anything but God.

ME:

So, while you insist that John 6:38 is a figure of speech, you can't even tell what figure of speech it is. I guess, that alone settles the issue here.

INCQUISITOR:

What is important to believe is that Jesus did not pre-exist in heaven as God.

To teach that Jesus pre-existed in heaven as God is FALSE because it makes Jesus a LIAR who said that the Father is the ONLY TRUE God (John 17:3).

Jesus says he is a MAN (John 8:40). Apostle Paul also says Jesus is a MAN (1 Tim. 2:5; Acts 17:31; Rom. 10:9). The prophet David also says Jesus is a MAN (Psalm 80:17 c.f. Col. 3:1). Jesus says the Father is the ONLY TRUE God (John 17:3). Apostle Paul says there is ONLY ONE God, the Father (Eph. 4:6). The prophet Malachi says ONE God created us all (Mal. 2?:10).

Therefore, to TWIST John 6;38 to mean that Jesus pre-existed as God in heaven is a desperate and futile attempt to make Jesus God.

ME:

Of course it is immaterial to you. And that only shows that you are just forcing it to be a figure of speech even when it is not. Obviously, that is your way of explaining the truth about Christ's preexistence in heaven away.

Scriptures has it (not me), that the Lord Jesus Christ said "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."

Did the Lord Jesus Christ came down from heaven? Jesus Christ himself said He did. Believing that is faith. Denying that is accusing Jesus Christ to be a liar.

Now, if you are out saying that what Jesus said there is a figure of speech, here is your right and opportunity to defend and prove what it is you say to be true. This is coming from you, not from anyone else, that Jesus is speaking a figure of speech. You said that. So, I ask this simple question, what type of figure of speech is it? If you can't even answer such simple question, then your excuse right here, right now crumbles to pieces and is proven false.

And here's another verse, wherein Jesus said "What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? (John 6:62)".

 
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Responses

  1. If Jesus PHYSICALLY pre-existed in heaven, WHAT was he? - INCquisitor on May 29, 2016, 9:21 AM
    1. If he physically preexisted, maybe he preexisted as a form. But he likely preexisted spi- - Tomas on May 29, 2016, 11:41 PM
    2. Who said Jesus PHYSICALLY preexisted in heaven? - Michael on May 31, 2016, 11:47 AM
     
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