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Re: A new Christ?

June 11 2017 at 7:00 AM
INCquisitor  (Login fccc354)


Response to Re: A new Christ?

 
Isaiah 53 is a prophecy spoken of Christ, and clearly spoke of him as to bear our iniquities, as an offering. And this goes well with the clear testimony about Jesus, as being the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

INCQUISITOR:

I don't think apostle Paul had Isaiah 53:3-7 in mind when he said "Christ died for OUR sins ACCORDING to the Scriptures." The death of Christ FOR OUR SINS did not have to be "IN COMPLIANE with" what is written in Isaiah 53:3-7.

Me:

So we differ as to what in scriptures Paul refer to. You want to think that it's not Isaiah 53:3-7. Don't you believe this prophecy spoken of Christ by Isaiah? Don't you also do not see this in that Jesus is the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Apparently not.

INCQUISITOR:

Of course, we differ as to what scriptures Paul was referring to in 1 Cor. 5:3. You have no idea what the gospel of Christ is all about.

Paul was talking about the "gospel" that he received, and the "gospel" is this: "that Christ died FOR OUR SINS according to (in compliance with) the Scriptures." This is where, in the "gospel," the "righteousness of God is revealed" (Rom. 1:17). The "righteousness" or "justice" of God is that "every man shall be put to death for his own sin?" (Deut. 24:16). In other words, "the soul that sins, it shall die" (Ezek. 18:20).

Me:

You said "You have no idea what the gospel of Christ is all about." Anyone can say that you as well. And consider that as the obvious.

So you insist of making "according to the scriptures" to mean "in compliance with scriptures". And the reason is obvious, that si to somehow give ground to your doctrine. The Greek word translated as "according to" is "kata" which does not mean here to be "in compliance with", but to be "according to".

If we say "according to the gospel of Matthew" for instance, we can't mean the same thing when we say "in compliance with the gospel of Matthew". The phrase "according to the scriptures" is and means differently to the phrase "in compliance with scriptures". So, sorry to say, it is just not what you want it to be, or want to make it out to be.

INCQUISITOR:

"According to the Scriptures" doesn't mean "in compliance with the Scriptures" ONLY when there is nothing to comply with nor obey like Isaiah 53:3-7. However, when there are things to comply with in the Scriptures cited like Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20, "according to the Scriptures" means the same as "in compliance with the Scriptures."

For instance, in Mt. 17:5, Matthew wrote, "While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is my son, in whom I am well pleased. HEAR HIM!"

My saying, "I HEAR Jesus ACCORDING TO Mt. 17:5," means the same as my saying, "I HEAR Jesus "IN COMPLIANCE with Mt. 17:5" Otherwise, what good would it do me if I cite Mt. 17:5 and NOT listen to Jesus?

Me:

But your point just does not apply in this case at hand. It is Paul who said "according to the Scriptures". If Paul meant, like in your example, he would do properly and correctly as you and I would, by saying "in compliance with Scriptures". So, to make the phrase "according to the Scriptures" in 1 Corinthians 15:3 to be "in compliance with Scriptures" instead, would really change altogether what Paul meant to say.

1 Corinthians 15:3
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

1 Corinthians 15:3
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins in compliance with Scriptures,

INCQUISITOR:

My point applies in this case whether apostle Paul was referring to Isaiah 53:3-7 or Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.

Apostle Paul did not specify which Scriptures he was referring to when he wrote, "Christ died for OUR dins according to the Scriptures." Thus, depending on from whom we first received the gospel of Christ, we would look for Scriptures that we were taught would apply.

If apostle Paul were referring to Isaiah 53:3-7, he would simply be pointing to a prophesy about Christ suffering for us without any mention of God's righteousness or justice concerning sin and sinners.

Apostle Paul wrote that the "gospel of Christ is God's power unto salvation for everyone who believes...FOR IN IT, the righteousness of God is REVEALED..." (Rom. 1:16-17).

The "gospel" that apostle Paul received, "that Christ died FOR OUR SINS according to the Scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:3) definitely REVEALED the righteousness of God. Otherwise, the gospel that apostle Paul received would not be God's power unto salvation for everyone who believes.

Isaiah 53:3-7 does NOT reveal to us the "righteousness of God." Thus, there is no way that apostle Paul was talking about Isaiah 63:3-7 when he aid, "Christ died FOR OUR SINS according to the Scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:3).

Me:

Firstly, Isa.53 is not only a prophecy about Christ suffering for us, but of dying for us, bearing our iniquities, being an offering for sin. Has not Christ given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God (Eph.5:2), and that for sin (Heb.10:12)? In fact John the baptist declared of Jesus "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!". And this, this is spoken of Jesus Christ, not of some different "new Christ" that is Jesus Christ and the church, which is not really a natural physical man.

INCQUISITOR:

"US" refers to the saints who are in Ephesus (Eph. 1:1) who are all MEMBERS of the "body or the church that Christ built. Eph. 1:22-23 tells us that Christ is the head of the church, HIS body." Col. 1:18 tells us that Christ is the HEAD of the BODY, the CHURCH."

Eph. 5:23 tells us that "Christ is the HEAD of the Church and he is the SAVIOR of the BODY." Eph. 5:25 tells us that "Christ GAVE HIS LIFE for the CHURCH."

Therefore, "US" does NOT refer to NON-MEMBERS of the church that Christ built.

Jesus Christ AND the church is the "one new man" which is NOT a natural physical man but a spiritual man that FULFILLS the "righteous requirement of the law" (Rom. 8:4) written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.

Me:

The "US" in Eph. 1:1 refers to them who are Christians then in Ephesus, and applies also to those in Rome, in Corinth, in Thessalonica, in Jerusalem, in Philippi, in Galatia, in Macedonia, etc, and in practically all places where there are Christians, and to all else who still may presently be unbelievers then but who later came to repentance and faith on Christ, and to all else who will repent and believe on Christ, after them, today, and in the future. In Isaiah 53:6, the "us" there refers to not only those in Jerusalem, but to all.

INCQUISITOR:

What you say about Eph. 1:1 referring to "Christians" then (AT THAT TIME) who are in Ephesus, and applies to those in Rome, in Corinth, in Thessalonica, in Jerusalem, in Philippi, in Galatia, in Macedonia, etc. is TRUE.

Me:

That's good.
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However, your statement that "US" in Eph. 1:1 refers to "practically all places where there are Christians, and to all else who still may presently be unbelievers then but who later came to repentance and faith in Christ, and to all else who will repent and believe on Christ, after them, today, and in the future," is FALSE.

Me:

That's wrong

INCQUISITOR:

Believing in Christ ALONE does NOT make one a Christian. Hence, NOT everyone who says he believes in Christ and repented is a Christian. The “US” in Eph. 1:1 refers ONLY to MEMBERS of the church that Christ built, be they Ephesians, Romans, Corinthians, Colossians or Thessalonians.
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Firstly, not everyone who calls himself a "Christian" is a TRUE "Christian" The Bible teaches that the DISCIPKES of Christ were first called "Christians" in Antioch (Acts 11:26). Therefore, ONLY "disciples of Christ" are TRUE Christians. But again, not everyone who calls himself a "disciple of Christ" is a TRUE "disciple of Chris." A TRUE "disciple of Christ" is one who BELIEVES Christ and ABIDE in his word" (John 8:31).

Me:

Not the issue. Even Paul can not know who are true and who are not.

INCQUISITOR:

To false Christians, it is not an issue because they love to be called Christians even if they are not.

To anyone who genuinely desires to be saved, it is an issue. The epistles of the apostles were addressed to TRUE Christians. Christ died for Christians who were sinners BEFORE they HEARD the true Gospel and BECAME members of the church that Christ built.

Me:

Christ died for NON-Christians who were sinners BEFORE they HEARD the true Gospel and BECAME CHRISTIANS, and members of the church that Christ built.

INCQUISITOR:

Apostle Paul says that Christ PURCHASED the church with his own blood (Acts 20:28). Paul says Christ is the SAVIOR of the church (Eph. 5:23). Paul also says that Christ GAVE HIS LIFE for the church (Eph. 5:25). Therefore, Christ died ONLY for the SINS of members of his church, the church that he built – NOT the sins of NON-Christians who have NOT become members of the church that Christ built.
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By the way, let me try using your tactic, reasoning, and how you take scriptures, against you and see how you deal with it. I'm curious.

John 8:31 is for those Jews who believed Him, not for those Gentiles Jews who believed Him. If you are not a Jew then this is not for you.

John 8:31
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

INCQUISITOR:

At the time Jesus said this (John 8:31), the Gospel was ONLY for the Jews.

This is what Jesus commanded his apostles: “These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter the city of the Samaritans. But go RATHER to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matt. 10:5-7).

It was only AFTER Jesus ascended to heaven and the apostles took over, that the Gospel was ALSO preached to the Gentiles.
This is what apostle Paul wrote: “For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, FOR it is God’s power unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew FIRST and ALSO for the Greek” (Rom. 1:16).

Me:

And so, according to your tactic, reasoning, and how you take scriptures, you don't get to be part of what is said in John 8:31, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed".

INCQUISITOR:

The words of Jesus are true for EVERYONE, at any time. If I, a Gentile believe Jesus AND abide in his word, then I am his true disciple indeed.
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To "ABIDE" in the word of Christ" means to accept or act in accordance with Christ's teachings, doctrines, statements or commands. Synonyms of "ABIDE" are: comply with, obey, observe, follow, keep to, hold to, conform to, adhere to, stick to0, stand by, act in accordance with, uphold, heed, accept, go along with, acknowledge, respect, defer to. Example: "everybody is expected to abide by the word of Christ."

Me:

No issue here.

INCQUISITOR:

If there were no issue here, why CAN’T you thus ABIDE in the word of Christ written in John 17:3?
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Secondly, the "US" referred to by apostle Paul were ALL members of the "church that Christ built" (Mt. 16:18).

Me:

Just a repeat of what I have already addressed.

INCQUISITOR:

What you posted concerning this issue is FALSE. As I said, NOT everyone who says he believes in Christ and repented is a Christian. Anyone who s NOT a member of the church that Christ built is NOT a Christian.
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Thirdly, the "US" in Isaiah 53:6 refers to the Jews who were God's people at the time the prophesy was written. Similarly, the "US" in 1 Cor. 15:3 refers to God's chosen people in these last days. Only members of church that Christ built (Mt. 16:18) are God's "own special people" (1 Peter 2:9).

Me:

If you so insist, then it is for you.

And you have made that prophecy about Christ only for the Jews then.

And following your infallible logical mind, then the "us" in the following verse only also refers to the Jews then. And so, your logic have made Christ only for the Jews then. Such thinking....tsk..tsk...tsk

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

INCQUISITOR:

The Bible teaches that “God, who at various times and in various ways spoke IN TIME PAST to our fathers by the PROPHETS, has IN THESE LAST DAYS spoken to US by His SON…” (Heb. 1:1-2).

Hence, I stand by what I said that the "US" in Isaiah 53:6 refers to the Jews who were God's people at the time the prophesy was written. Similarly, the "US" in 1 Cor. 15:3 refers to God's chosen people in these last days. Only members of church that Christ built (Mt. 16:18) are God's "own special people" (1 Peter 2:9).

Me:

And right, following your infallible logical mind, nothing said in the OT is for you. The Messiah spoken of in the OT then also is not for you, for every prophecy in the OT was written at the time when the Jews are God's people and not the Gentiles, and not the members of church that Christ built.

Even so, Hebrews 1:1-2 would not even be applicable to you, if we were to follow your thinking, unless you are a descendant of Adam, of Seth, of Noah, of Abraham, of Isaac, of Jacob, of any of the 12 tribes of Israel.

INCQUISITOR:

Heb. 1:2 states: “has IN THESE LAST DAYS spoken to US by His SON…” I belong to “these last days.” Therefore, I am included in the “US” of Heb. 1:2.
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And the time that God laid the iniquities of all to Christ, was during the time that God has made of Jesus, an offering for sin, on the cross. As scriptures have it, "that while we were STILL sinners, Christ died for us".

INCQUISITOR:

What you say is false. The time that God laid the iniquities of sinners to Christ, was when Christ "created IN HIMSELF one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that he might reconcile them both to God in ONE BODY through the cross" (Eph. 2:15-16).

The Scripture that says, "that while WE were STILL sinners, Christ died FOR US" is true ONLY to MEMBERS of the church that Christ built. Christ can die ONLY for the sins of his OWN body, the church, IN FULFILLMENT of God's Law on sin and sinners written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.

Me:

If the time that God laid the iniquities of sinners to Christ, was when Christ created IN HIMSELF one new man from the two (Gentiles and Jews), when was that? Was that at the time when He died on the cross?

INCQUISITOR:

When did Christ start “building his church?” Did Christ start building his church when he was already dying on the cross? Definitely not!

Christ started building his church with the recruitment of his first two disciples, Simon called Peter and Andrew his brother (Matt. 4:18).

Me:

And so, you are saying that God laid the iniquities of sinners to Christ, when Christ created IN HIMSELF one new man from the two (Gentiles and Jews), when he started building his church, and then died on the cross. But, in those times, those whom you say that Christ recruited to be disciples, are all Jews. So how had he created IN HIMSELF one new man from the two (Gentiles and Jews) then? So, Christ, the head part, died for his body part, the Jews, on the cross as the new Christ.

Nothing really stands in what is false in the first place.

INCQUISITOR:

Apostle Paul says that Christ “created in himself one new man” that he might RECONCILE both Jews and Gentiles to God IN ONE BODY through the cross (Eph. 2:15-16). That “ONE BODY” is the church that Christ built (Matt. 16:18).
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The new man you are talking about is the new person ~ new self ~ of the believing Jew or Gentile, that is, the Christian, and not what you make it out to be, Christ and the church. Christ and the church has been spoken in various metaphors, such as of husband and wife, of shepherd and flock, of head and body, of vine and branches, etc. But that is the Christ and the church ~ not Christ.

INCQUISITOR:
Of course, one who is IN CHRIST or inside the body or church of Christ is exhorted to “put off, concerning his former conduct… and put on the NEW MAN which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness” (Eph. 4:22, 24; Col. 3:10).

However, I am talking about the “new man” composed of Christ and the church, Christ’s BODY, IN WHOM Jews and Gentiles are RECONCILED to God through Christ’s death on the cross.

Apostle Paul wrote: "For he (Christ) himself is our peace, who has made both (Jews and Gentiles) ONE, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in his flesh the enmity, that is the law of commandments contained in ordinances, SO AS TO CREATE IN HIMSELF one new man FROM the two, thus making peace, and that he might RECONCILE them both to God IN ONE BODY through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity" (Eph. 2:14-16).

Me:

Oh, the "new Christ", I see, Christ the head part, and the church, the body part. The imaginary "new man". Scriptures does not speak of an "old Christ" nor of a "new Christ".

INCQUISITOR:

True. Scriptures do not speak of an “old Christ” nor of a “new Christ.” This is the “mystery of Christ” (Eph. 3:4).

Me:

Of course, Paul speaks of a mystery, but not the mysterious "old Christ" or "new Christ" that you have made out to be.

INCQUISITOR:

That’s what a fanatic of a FALSE gospel is expected to say.
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And the gospel that the apostles preached is Jesus Christ, not really of something else. What the apostles later on said about the church is not the gospel, for the gospel refers to God, while the church refers to man. The gospel is about the Savior, not about the sinners.

INCQUISITOR:
What you are saying is NOT based on what is written in the Bible. Listen to what apostle Paul preached:

“For I am not ashamed of the GOSPEL OF Christ, FOR (because) it is God’s POWER unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first And also for the Greeks. FOR (because) IN IT (in the GOSPEL) the righteousness of God is revealed…” (Rom. 1:16-17).

“Moreover brethren, I declare to you the GOSPEL which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, BY WHICH also you are SAVED, if you hold fast the word that I preached to you – unless you believed in vain.

For I delivered to you first of all that which I received: that Christ died FOR US according to the Scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the Scriptures” (1 Cor. 15:1-4).

As anyone can read, Apostle Paul did not preach Christ. It is not true that the GOSPEL is about the Savior. It is also not true that the GOSPEL is NOT about sinners. And it is NOT true that the GOSPEL refers to God.

The TRUTH is, Paul preached the “GOSPEL OF Christ.” And the GOSPEL OF Christ is about HOW Christ died for the sins of sinners ACCORDING to the Scriptures, the Scriptures referred to being Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.

Moreover, Apostle Paul preached:

“And he (Christ) is the HEAD of the BODY, the church (Col. 1:18). And He (God) put all things under his(Christ’s) feet, and gave him (Christ) to be HEAD over al things to the church, WHICH IS his BODY…, (Eph. 1:22-23).

“For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is HEAD of the church; and he (Christ) is the Savior of the BODY. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and GAVE HIMSELF for her” (Eph. 5:23, 25).

The church does not refer to man, as you allege. The TRUTH is, the CHURCH is an important component of the GOSPEL OF Christ. Without the church that Christ built, SINNERS could NOT be RECONCILED to God (Eph. 2:16).

Me:

The gospel according to Paul (1 Cor. 15:3-8):

"that Christ died" ~ about Christ, not about the church, and not HOW
"that he was buried" ~ about Christ, not about the church, and not HOW
"that he rose again the third day" ~ about Christ, not about the church, and not HOW

The gospel according to Peter (Acts 22-36):

"Jesus of Nazareth" ~ about Christ, not about the church, and not HOW
"crucified, and put to death" ~ about Christ, not about the church, and not HOW
"whom God raised up" ~ about Christ, not about the church, and not HOW

INCQUISITOR:

Is this all the “gospel that you preach?

Why do you OMIT the “according to the Scriptures” part of the Gospel that Apostle Paul preached.

Why do you REJECT the parts of the Gospel concerning the “church” as Christ’s BODY, the “church” that Christ is the SAVIOR of, and the “church” that Christ loved so much that he GAVE HIS LIFE for her?

Me:

And who omits the "according to the scriptures" part? Needless to say, even without saying that, the gospel is understood to be according to scriptures. Jesus have shown to his disciples that He is the Messiah spoken in the scriptures, using the scriptures. But nowhere in the NT that the apostles mentions and refers to Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20 as that relates to the Messiah.

Saying that the gospel that the apostles preached is about Christ, and is not about the church, does not mean that I reject the things spoken by them concerning the church. The church simply is not Christ, and the gospel is not the "gospel of the church", but is the "gospel of Christ".

INCQUISITOR:

Of course, there is no such thing as “gospel of the church.” You say you don’t reject the things spoken by the apostles concerning the church. Yet, you DENY the truth that it is the church that Christ built that Christ will save.

The “gospel of Christ” is NOT ABOUT Christ. The “gospel of Christ” is ABOUT God’s PLAN to save the world from the wages of sin.

FYI, “gospel” means “message” and of course, the “gospel or message” of Christ concerning salvation is “good news.”

While it is true that Christ is the Messiah and the sacrificial Lamb of God, this knowledge is NOT enough to save anyone from the wages of sin.

One must have accurate knowledge of HOW one may benefit from the sacrificial blood that Christ shed on the cross.
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Now, you argue using Rom.1:16-17, yet you seem to leave out the last portion which tells us how in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed, which is from faith to faith. It is not in any other that the righteousness of God is revealed, but is revealed from faith to faith.

INCQUISITOR:

You MISUNDERSTAND Rom. 1:16-17. Apostle Paul is saying that the "gospel of Christ is God's power unto salvation for everyone who believes."

Q. Why is the "gospel of Christ" God's power unto salvation for everyone ho believes?
A. Because (FOR) IN IT (in the gospel), the "righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith." This means that the "righteousness of God" is revealed IN THE GOSPEL of Christ from faith to faith.

Until now, you haven't told us what the "righteousness of God" is that is revealed to you from faith to faith.

Me:

The "righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith. This means that the "righteousness of God" that is IN THE GOSPEL of Christ is revealed from faith to faith.

Go to my past posts where I have shown you what the "righteousness of God" is as revealed from faith to faith. The matter is, you just keep ignoring it and just insist that it is not, without the credit of refuting it.

INCQUISITOR:

Until now you haven’t told me WHAT the righteousness of God is IN THE GOSPEL of Christ, that you say is “revealed from faith to faith.”

TRUTH can easily be repeated. On the other hand, a LIE is hard to repeat. That’s why you can’t repeat to me what you say you have shown in your past posts.

Me:

Romans 1:17 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

INCQUISITOR:

WHAT is the righteousness of God that you say is “revealed from faith to faith?”

Me:

I have already again and again showed you. But still you are not able to see.

INCQUISITOR:

Am I talking to a crazy man who keeps pointing to an imaginary man whom both of us CAN’T see. I hope not!
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Romans 3:21-22
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

INCQUISITOR:

WHAT is the “righteousness of God apart from the law” that is revealed, being witnessed by the law and the prophets?

WHAT is the “righteousness of God” through faith in Jesus?

Me:

It is right in front of your nose. Read and comprehend what the passage Romans 3:21-22 tells you. If scriptures directly tells you what it is, and you still don't see it, I think no matter how I point it to you, you still won't see it.

INCQUISITOR:

Can’t you just plainly tell me what you “see” as the “righteousness of God apart from the law” ” that is revealed, being witnessed by the law and the prophets?

Honestly, can you tell me WHAT the “righteousness of God” is through faith in Jesus? If you don’t know, why can’t just be honest and admit NOT knowing WHAT the “righteousness of God” is.
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With the above scriptures, it is shown that the "righteousness of God" is not a law, as you teach it is. What the said scriptures tell us of the "righteousness of God" is:

1. It is in the gospel, revealed from faith to faith
2. It is revealed apart from the law.
3. It is witnessed by the law and the prophets.
4. It is through faith, and that in Jesus Christ.

INCQUISITOR:

WHAT is the righteousness of God that is “in the gospel?”

WHAT is the righteousness of God that is “revealed apart from the law?”

WHAT is the righteousness of God tat is “witnessed by the law and the prophets?”

WHAT is the righteousness of God that is “through faith, and that in Jesus Christ?”

Me:

As I said, I have pointed it to you time and again. But no matter how I point it, you still fail to see it. So let me just say it in a word ~ JESUS.

INCQUISITOR:

You are telling me that JESUS is the “righteousness of God?” What took you so long to tell me? Are you sure, JESUS is the “righteousness of God?”

Apostle Paul wrote, “For He (God) made him (Jesus) who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD in him (Jesus)” (2 Cor. 5:21).

If JESUS were the “righteousness of God,” how can we BECOME “righteousness of God” (JESUS) in Jesus?

Apostle Paul also wrote: “Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but NOT according to knowledge. For they being IGNORANT OF GOD’S RIGHTEOUSNESS, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have NOT submitted to the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD. For Christ is the end of the LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to everyone who believes” (Rom. 10:1-4).

Evidently, the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD is a LAW and Christ is the “end of the LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to everyone who believes. If JESUS were God’s righteousness, HOW can JESUS be the END of JESUS to everyone who believes?
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The "righteousness of God" is in the gospel, revealed from faith to faith. So, for one to see in the gospel, what the "righteousness of God" is, he must look at where it is being revealed, that is, from faith to faith. One who looks at the law, and not on the faith of Jesus, he will not see it, for it is revealed without the law.

INCQUISITOR:

I assume you have looked for quite a while at “where righteousness of God is being revealed, that is, “from faith to faith.” Can you tell me now, WHAT the righteousness of God is?

Me:

Again, I'll just ask you to look at Jesus and hope that in Him you will see the righteousness of God.

INCQUISITOR:

Apostle Paul says, “Christ is the end of the LAW FOR RIGHEOUSNESS to everyone who BELIEVES” (Rom. 10:3). Paul did not say, “to everyone who “LOOKS AT JESUS.” Therefore, what you are saying is FALSE.
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The "righteousness of God" is seen and was seen by Israel, in the faith of Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Gedeon, Barak, Samson, Jephthae, David, Samuel, and of the prophets. But notwithstanding the faith of all these men of God in the past, today, in the last days, the "righteousness of God" is manifested by the faith of Jesus Christ. So that, if one wants to see the righteousness of God, one need not look elsewhere and to no one else, but to Jesus, in whom dwells all the fullness of the Godhead.

INCQUISITOR:

Can you tell me WHAT the righteousness of God is “that is seen and was seen by Israel in the faith of Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Gedeon, Barak, Samson, Jepthae, David, Samuel, and of the prophets?”

Can you tell me WHAT the righteousness of God is that is “manifested by the faith of Jesus Christ?”

Me:

If you want to see the righteousness of God, you need to look at Jesus, in whom dwells all the fullness of the Godhead. See in Him, in fact, everything in Him, not only the righteousness of God, but even the fullness of the Godhead. I will have to practically write everything that is written about him to answer your question. So, unless you want me to do that, please just do the better thing to do. Read scriptures about Jesus.

INCQUISITOR:

I want to know what you “see in Jesus” as the “righteousness of God” so I can submit to the “righteousness of God” as written by apostle Paul in Rom. 10:1-4, and “become the righteousness of God in Christ” as written by apostle Paul in 2 Cor. 5:21.
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You speak of the "righteousness of God" as in His compliance with the law. If I can show you scriptures that speaks of the "righteousness of God" apart from the law, would you accept that your take of what the "righteousness of God" is, is wrong?

INCQUISITOR:

Apostle Paul asks, "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law" (Rom. 3:31).

Me:

I repeat. You speak of the "righteousness of God" as in His compliance with the law.

If I can show you scriptures that speaks of the "righteousness of God" apart from the law, would you accept that your take of what the "righteousness of God" is, is wrong?

INCQUISITOR:

If you can tell me WHAT the “righteousness of God” is that is “apart from the law,” why not?

Me:
Scriptures, not me, will tell you.

Romans 3:21-22
21 But now the righteousness of God APART FROM THE LAW is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

INCQUISITOR:

Be honest to yourself and to all those who might be interested in what you are posting. Do you honestly know WHAT the righteousness of God apart from the law is that “is revealed, being witnessed by the law and the prophets?”

Do you honestly know WHAT the righteousness of God is “through faith in Jesus Christ?”

Me:

Yes I do. But the thing is, we have different understanding of it.

One thing is certain, and which is one of the main difference in our understanding of it, that the righteousness of God is APART FROM THE LAW.

INCQUISITOR:

HOW is the “righteousness of God” APART FROM THE LAW?

The LAW says, “every man shall be put to death for his own sin” Deut. 24:16), and, “the soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Ezek. 18:20). This is the “righteousness of God.”

Christ and the church became the “righteousness of God APART FROM THE LAW” when Christ, who knew no sin was made sin for the church, his body, so that members of the church, Christ’s body might become the righteousness of God IN CHRIST” (2 Cor. 5:21).
---------------------------------------
While Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20 which are scriptures as well, they are laws given to Israel. They are not prophecies, nor are a shadow or type, of the death of Christ on the cross.

INCQUISITOR:

These Scriptures are more likely what apostle Paul had in mind. Christ died FOR OUR sins "according to the Scriptures" means that Christ died FOR OUR sins "IN COMPLIANCE with" the "righteousness (justice or law) of God" written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20. Prophecies are fulfilled - NOT complied with.

Me:

"are more likely" says what it is that you think "according to the Scriptures" means. What scriptures says of the death of Jesus Christ is in connection to him bearing our iniquities is the fulfillment of the prophecy spoken of Christ by Isaiah.

INCQUISITOR:

As I said, Paul is talking about the "gospel" he received. And the "gospel' is this: "That Christ died for OUR sins according to (in compliance with) the Scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:3). Isaiah 53 is a prophecy about the sufferings of Christ but does not reveal the "righteousness" or "justice" of God that is supposed to be "revealed in the gospel" (Rom. 1:17).

Me:

No, INCquistor. Isaiah is not just a prophecy about the sufferings of Christ. Read properly and with an open understanding. This prophesy is about Christ and His suffering and death, being the lamb of God, as a sacrifice for the sin of the world. As the sacrificial lamb, Christ bore our sins ~ He died for our sins.

INCQUISITOR:

If Isaiah 53:3-7 is the "gospel" that Paul received, what relation does this "gospel" have with the other epistles of Paul concerning the church as Christ's body and for whom Christ gave his life?

Me:

Scriptures about the church is not about the gospel of Christ that the apostles preached. Scriptures about the church is for the believers who have heard and received the gospel of Christ. Scriptures about the gospel of Christ is to be read and preached to the unbelievers, that in hearing the gospel of Christ that the apostles preached, they may receive and believe, and call upon the Lord.

INCQUISITOR:

One of the very first things that Christ did was to build his church (Matt. 16:18). He started building his church the moment he made his first two apostles follow him.

What you say proves that you have not heard the TRUE gospel of Christ. The church that Christ built is an integral part of God's plan of salvation. Thus, preaching of the church, which is the kingdom of the love of His son (Col. 1:12-13), is an important part of the gospel of Christ. The church is the ONLY way by which Christ could die FOR OUR SINS without violating God's righteousness or justice concerning sin and sinners written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.

Me:

That's what you preach, a "new Christ" who died for his body, the sinless head part dying for the sins of the body part, which is not the Christ that the apostles preached as the one who died for our sins, as an offering and sacrifice for sin, the lamb of God.

INCQUISITOR:

That's the ONLY way for Christ to DIE for the sins of OTHERS without violating God's law written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.

Me:

Only way perhaps, according to you, and your own reasoning. And I don't know why you can't accept the way of God, who in His wisdom, made Jesus the Lamb of God who will take away the sin of the world. His death is as a sacrificial lamb offering whereby the sins of the people are atoned for.

INCQUISITOR:

Did I say I can’t I accept God’s wisdom of making Jesus the Lamb of God who will take away the sin of the world? Certainly not!

Me:

Yes you certainly did.

INCQUISITOR:

Show me here I said that.

Me:

Not verbatim, but one just have to read this discussion and see that you did. Now, if you don't then perhaps you believe that this is how our sins were atoned for:

1. God made Jesus the Lamb of God who will take away the sin of the world.
2. Jesus' death is as a sacrificial lamb offering whereby the sins of the people are atoned for.

INCQUISITOR:

Both the above are true. However, the above does not tell us HOW Christ, as sacrificial lamb atoned for the sins of sinners.

Apostle Paul tells us that those who heard and believed the gospel of Christ are “delivered from the power of darkness and conveyed them into the kingdom of the son of His love, IN WHOM they have REDEMPTION through his blood, the FORGIVENESS OF SIN” (Col. 1:12-14).

Therefore, it is not enough to know that God made Jesus the Lamb of God who will take away the sin of the world, and that Jesus’ death is as a sacrificial lamb offering whereby the sins of the people are atoned for.

One has to BECOME a member of the church that Christ built in order to be RECONCILED to God through the cross (Eph. 2:16).
--------------------------------
Tell me, did God VIOLATE His own law written in Deut. 24:16 ad Ezek. 18:20 when he made Christ’s death as a sacrificial lamb offering whereby the sins of the people are atoned for?

Me:

No God did not.

INCQUISITOR:

Then, tell me HOW Christ died FOR OUR SINS without God violating His own laws written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.

Me:

1. God made Jesus, the Lamb of God, who will take away the sin of the world.
2. Jesus' death is as a sacrificial lamb offering whereby the sins of the people are atoned for.

This offering is not in violation of any of God's law, including Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.

Christ did not die as a murderer for the murderer, or as a thief for the thief. He died as a sacrifice for the sins of the murderer, for the thief, for the adulterer, for the liar, etc...

INCQUISITOR:

God’s Law is clear: “every man shall be put to death for his own sin” (Deut., 24:16), and “the soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Ezek. 18:20).

Apostle Paul says “Christ died FOR OUR SINS according to the Scriptures” (1 Cor 15:3).

This is a blatant violation of God’s Laws written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.

Apostle Paul wrote, “For He (God) made him who knew no sin to be sin for us…”

Christ did NOT sin. Why should God put him to death for OUR sins in VIOLATION of His own Laws?

HOW did God make Christ “who knew no sin to be sin for us?”
-----------------------------

In Numbers 23:19 KJV, God said, “God is not a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do it? Or hath He spoken, and shall He not make good?

If you say God ALLOWED Christ to die for OTHERS in violation of His own laws written in Deut . 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20, aren’t you making God a LIAR? He who has brains let him think!

Me:

I don't say God ALLOWED Christ to die for OTHERS in violation of His own laws written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20

INCQUISITOR:

Your acceptance of the Scripture that says Christ died FOR OUR SINS while REJECTING Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20 as the Scriptures referred to by Apostle Paul, when he wrote, “according to the Scriptures,” indicates your belief that God ALLOWED Christ to die for OTHERS in violation of His own laws written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20

Me:

Of course not. What God did is that He made Jesus, as an offering for sin.

Christ did not die as an unrighteous man. He died as an unblemished and perfect sacrifice for sin.

INCQUISITOR:

What you say contradicts what Apostle Paul wrote. He says, “For He (God) made him (Christ) who knew no sin to be SIN FOR US that we might become the righteousness of God in him” (2 Cor. 5:21).

In other words, Christ died as a sinner to atone for the sins of OTHERS in violation OF God’s Laws written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.

Do you honestly believe that God would allow his Laws to be VIOLATED?
------------------------------------
You speak of the law in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20, being fulfilled by Christ. That is far from even being applicable to the death of Christ. These laws says that "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.", and that "Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall children be put to death for their fathers, that a person shall be put to death for his own sin".

The bottom line of these laws is that a person shall be put to death for his own sin. You sinned, I sinned. According to these laws, we, individually, will be put to death, for our own sin. That our fathers shall not bear the guilt of our sins, nor they be put to death in our stead. Jesus is far from fulfilling these laws. He can't. Firstly, Jesus is not our father nor he is our son. And even if he is, these laws do not allow him to die for us.

INCQUISITOR:

Your understanding of Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20 is correct. Nobody can NORMALLY die for the sins of others - not even Jesus.
And yes, Jesus is far from fulfilling these laws NORMALLY.

However, Jesus said, "I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is finished" (Mt. 5:17-18). Therefore, Jesus fulfilled the law and indeed "Christ died FOR OUR sins according to (in compliance with) the Scriptures written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.

Me:

It's not that's it's the normal way or not. As I pointed out, Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20 are far from even being applicable to the death of Christ. For as these laws says, "the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself", not upon anyone other than himself. What Jesus fulfilled with regards his dying for our sins is the prophecy spoken of Christ by Isaiah, he being the lamb of God.

INCQUISITOR:

Apostle Paul said, "Christ died FOR OUR sins according to the Scriptures." Scriptures say, "every man shall be put to death for his own sin" (Deut. 24:16). In other words, "the soul that sins, I shall die" (Ezek. 18:20).

Christ died FOR OUR sins ACCORDING TO (in compliance with) these Scriptures." While it is true that Christ died FOR OUR sins as prophesied by Isaiah, the question is HOW did Christ die FOR OUR sins ACCORDING to (IN COMPLIANCE with) the Scriptures written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.

Me:

If you don't refute and say even that it is true that Christ died FOR OUR sins as prophesied by Isaiah, then why do you keep insisting your doctrine which scriptures says nothing about and forcing Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20 to apply when they do not, when all you have to do is hear what Isaiah is saying how he suffered, died, and was buried? According to Isaiah, with regards to his death, that Christ poured out His soul unto death, and He was numbered with the transgressors, and He bore the sin of many. And still on this, Isaiah said that it pleased God to bruise Him, and that God has put Him to grief, and made His soul an offering for sin.

INCQUISITOR:

I hear what Isaiah is saying, and all of this is true, but who says Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20 do not apply? These are God's words too.

According to God's law, Jesus was not supposed to die for the sins of others. He was supposed to die for his OWN sin only. But Apostle Paul says "Christ died for OUR sins, ACCORDING TO the Scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:3).

HOW was Christ able to "die for OUR sins" without violating God's law on sin and sinners written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20?

What good is it to know the sufferings of Christ and dying for OUR sins as a sacrificial lamb (Isaiah 53:3-7), if we are "IGNORANT of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish our own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God" (Rom. 10:3)?

Me:

Yes, Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20 are God's words too. No argument on that.

That's right, Jesus was not supposed to die for the sins of others, in compliance with Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20. And we can't work around that law. These laws are plain and simple ~ a person shall be put to death for his OWN sin. So, this is clearly not what Paul was referring to. In contrast Isa. 53 clearly applies and is fulfilled in Christ, to what Paul said as first of all that which he received concerning the gospel, that Christ died for our sins.

You see, there are many laws besides Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20. These laws, like the two were given to apply where they are applicable. And these two applies not for forgiveness of sin nor applies for salvation, but precisely for the certainty of rendering and imposing the penalty due to the guilty person and not to anyone else. There are laws given by God that applies for forgiveness of sin. It is by way of offering a sacrifice of atonement. And this is how Christ was able to atone for the sin of the world. Being the lamb of God, the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

INCQUISITOR:

Jesus was not supposed to die for the sin of others in compliance with Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20. This is more reason for apostle Paul to refer to these two laws to explain HOW Christ died FOR OUR SINS despite God's command that "everyone shall be put to death for his own sin" (Deut. 24:16) and "the soul that sins, it shall die" (Ezek. 18:20).

As you say, there is no working around these laws. There has to be some way for Christ to die FOR OUR SINS without violating God's laws written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20. And this is what the gospel of Christ is all about.

Me:

And yes God sure did find a way. He laid on Christ the iniquity of us all and offered him as sacrificial lamb for the atonement of sin. That was what God did in His wisdom. The type of this is that of Abraham, the father, offering his one and only begotten son Isaac, as an offering.

INCQUISITOR:

You are telling me that God VIOLATED His own law written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20, aren't you?

You are also telling me that Christ BUILT is church for NO reason at all, aren't you?

Me:

Of course NOT.

And again, of course NOT.

INCQUISITOR:

You say, of course you are NOT telling me that God VIOLATED His own law written in Deut 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20. Then show me Scripture that says God ALOWED Christ to die FOR OUR sins DESPITE His laws written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.

You say, of course you are NOT telling me that Christ built his church for no reason at all. Then show me Scripture that tells us the importance of the church that Christ built OTHER THAN her role in the salvation of sinners as preached by apostle Paul.

Me:

I can't show you Scriptures that says God ALOWED Christ to die FOR OUR sins DESPITE His laws written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20, in the same way you can't. What I can show you is Scriptures that God has laid on Him the iniquity of us all and made His soul an offering for sin.

INCQUISITOR:

If you and I can’t show Scriptures that say God ALLOWED Christ to die FOR OUR sins DESPITE His laws written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20, then it stands to reason that Christ died FOR OUR sins IN COMPLIANCE with the laws of God written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20, isn’t that correct?

Do you know HOW Christ was able to die FOR OUR sins WITHOUT violating God’s laws written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20?

Me:

No, that is not correct.

INCQUISITOR:

Are you telling me then that God allowed Christ to die for the sins of others in violation of His own laws written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20? If so, then you are making God a LIAR, aren’t you? You are saying then that God was NOT truthful in what He said in Num. 23:19, aren’t you?
------------------------------------
I know How you make Christ as to die FOR OUR sins WITHOUT violating God’s laws written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20. You make up a new man, that is, an imaginary one at that, whose head part is Christ, and whose body part is the church. And this you say is the "new Christ". But I know nothing of this in scriptures. What I know in scriptures that Christ died as an offering, him being the lamb of God, that takes away the sin of the world.

INCQUISITOR:

What the Bible teaches about Christ being the HEAD of HIS body, the church that he built (Eph. 1:22-23; Col. 1:18) is NOT imaginary at all. And what the Bible teaches about Christ creating IN HIMSELF a “new man” (Eph. 2:15-16) is NOT at all imaginary as well.

Of course, you know nothing of the “new Christ” because all you have been taught all your life is a FALSE gospel that Christ died as an offering, him being the Lamb of God, that takes away the sin of the world WITHOUT knowing HOW God made Christ a sacrificial Lamb that takes away the sin of the world “ACCORDING to” or “IN COMPLIANCE with” the laws of God written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20, as apostle Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 15:3.
------------------------------------------
"Then show me Scripture that tells us the importance of the church that Christ built OTHER THAN her role in the salvation of sinners as preached by apostle Paul."

Eph.3:8-12
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the fellowship[a] of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; 10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be MADE KNOWN BY THE CHURCH to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.

INCQUISITOR:

This does not tell us the reason for Christ to build his church. It must be noted that Christ was sent by God into the world that the world through him might be saved (John 3:17).

It must also be noted that one of the first things that Christ did was to “build his church” (Matt. 16:18). The same apostle Paul who wrote Eph. 3:8-12 also wrote the more important functions of the church pertinent to salvation. I can’t understand why you put more importance to Eph. 3:8-12 over the scriptures that talk of the church as Christ’s BODY (Eph. 1:22-23, IN WHOM Jews and Gentiles are RECONCILED to God through the cross (Eph. 2:16), OF WHICH Christ is the SAVIOR (Eph. 5:23), and FOR WHICH Christ GAVE HIS LIFE (Eph. 5:25).

Me:

Not to you. That is one of the many things said of the church, unless you deny that.

Yes, Christ was sent by God into the world that the world through him might be saved. That is clear and there's nothing to argue about that. Unless you redefine "world" to mean not the world.

INCQUISITOR:

I can’t understand why you put more importance to Eph. 3:8-12 over the scriptures that talk of the church as Christ’s BODY (Eph. 1:22-23, IN WHOM Jews and Gentiles are RECONCILED to God through the cross (Eph. 2:16), OF WHICH Christ is the SAVIOR (Eph. 5:23), and FOR WHICH Christ GAVE HIS LIFE (Eph. 5:25).

This is the manifold wisdom of God that has been made known to you by the church through Apostle Paul. Yet you REJECT the importance of the church to your salvation, as preached by Apostle Paul.
--------------------------------------
Now, I understand that you make the church and Christ into an imaginary man, Christ being the head part and the church being the body part. But be that as it may, the man that they become is not wholly Christ, but is him and the church. So, this imaginary man could not be Christ, as you want it to be.


INCQUISITOR:

If Christ is the "HEAD of the church, and the church is his BODY" (Eph. 1:22-23), then Christ and the church is the "one new man" that apostle Paul was talking about in Ephesians 2:15-16. This enabled Christ to fulfil God's law or righteousness written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.
This is also HOW "the righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in disciples of Christ" (Rom. 8:4). This is also HOW Christ was made sin for disciples of Christ that they might become the righteousness of God in Christ" (2 Cor. 5:21).
Apostle Paul wrote that "Christ is the head of the church; and he is the savior of the body" (Eph. 5:23). Apostle Paul also wrote that "Christ loved the church and gave himself FOR HER" (Eph. 5:25).
That's why apostle Paul wrote that Christ PURCHASED his church with his blood (Acts 20:28).

Me:

The new man you make of, even is not Christ, but is Christ and the church.

INCQUISITOR:

That's true. The "new man" is Christ and the church. Christ and the church is the new Christ. "And he (Christ) is the HEAD of the BODY, the church" (Col. 1:18). The church is Christ's "body" (Eph. 1:22-23).

When Paul said, "Christ died FOR OUR sins, he was talking to members of the "church of God which is in Corinth" (1 Cor. 15:2). These are members of "HIS body" (1 Cor. 12:14). Christ died FOR the sins of his body, or his OWN sins ACCORDING to or IN COMPLIANCE with the Scriptures written in Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.

Me:

The new Christ? There we have it. A different Christ is what you preach.

The Christ that the apostles preached is Jesus who suffered and died for our sins, not a new Christ who is not Jesus (old Christ?), but is the Christ and the church.

INCQUISITOR:

I understand perfectly how you think. The Bible says, the gospel of Christ is foolishness to those who are perishing.

Me:

That's right. And the "gospel of Christ" is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes. Needless to say the "gospel of the new Christ" is not the gospel of Christ that the apostles preached, and so is not the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes it.

2 Corinthians 11:3-5
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity[a] that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!

Galatians 1:6-9
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

INCQUISITOR:

The gospel of Christ concerns the "new Christ" which made it possible for Christ to die FOR OUR SINS according to Deut. 24:16 and Ezek. 18:20.

When the Bible says, "one is IN CHRIST," that means that one is in the "new Christ" or "inside the body of Christ," - the church that Christ built.

Me:

The scriptures and the gospel preach of Christ, who is Jesus, him who was born of the virgin Mary, who was conceived by the HS. It does not preach about a "new Christ". There is only one Christ, who is Jesus. No old Christ, no new Christ.

INCQUISITOR:

Apostle Paul preached the gospel that he received (1 Cor. 15:3). It is the "gospel of Christ" that the apostles preached. "Gospel" means "message." Christ preached a "message" regarding God's PLAN of saving people from their sins.

Obviously, you have been listening to and preaching a false gospel of Christ.

Me:

I am reading and listening to scriptures. And it seems that you have been reading your scriptures and have been listening to your own logic and and reasoning.

The scriptures speaks of the gospel of Christ, who is Jesus, him who was born of the virgin Mary, who was conceived by the HS, and not of the gospel of a "new Christ", which you preach. I'd give you the credit as the only one I heard of preaching this gospel of a "new Christ", Jesus as head part and church as body part. Nonetheless, as it is, it is something new, that came from the mind of the self proclaimed commissioned disciple of Christ in the last days. If it's Christ AND something else, then it's a different gospel.

INCQUISITOR:

Where in my posts did I ever say, “Gospel of the new Christ?” I have always said, “gospel of Christ” CONCERNING the “new Christ” which is composed of Christ and the church, HIS body. If you haven’t been taught before, now is the appropriate time for you to read Ephesians chapter 2.

Me:

There is no "new Christ", even in Eph.2.

INCQUISITOR:

That’s because your mind is locked into your false doctrines.

Me:

No. Because I don't make up a "new Christ" and insert it in scriptures.

INCQUISITOR:

That’s because you refuse to open your eyes and mind to new ideas.
-------------------------------------
And finally, no scriptures prophesy of this nor there is a testimony in the NT about this.

INCQUISITOR:

This is the "mystery of Christ" (Eph. 3:4), "which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets" (Eph. 3:5). "that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ through the gospel.

Me:

Well.....

 
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