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The Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church of Christ) Doctrines

The intention of this board is to discuss the teachings of the Iglesia Ni Cristo. The rules are: A) must respect others, B) no profanity, C) no name calling, D) no ANONYMOUS posting, and E) must post in English. Messages that contain profane languages or insulting will be deleted. What can be posted? You may post Church doctrines or questions about the doctrines but not questions about individual or member's deed/practice. As host/administrator, I will remain neutral. This means -I will not comment on any post. I will read the post and then make a judgement whether or not it violates any rule. If it does, it will be removed. Lastly, I'm an X-INC.
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  1. 2 Cor. 8-9 does not imply in anyway that Christ pre-existed. View Thread - INCquisitor on Jun 1, 2014, 7:24 AM
    1. Sorry, you have terrible interpretation. INCq is distorting meaning of rich. - Dean O'Gowan on Jun 20, 2014, 5:35 AM
      1. Christ did not meet ANY of your definitions of "rich." - INCquisitor on Jun 29, 2014, 5:42 PM
    2. Christ preexisted. And He was rich, prior to becoming poor. - Michael on Jul 1, 2014, 10:29 PM
      1. Your post doesn't prove that Christ pre=existed. - INCquisitor on Jul 2, 2014, 3:55 AM
        1. Is that your rebuttal? Saying that does not prove false that Christ preexisted. - Michael on Jul 2, 2014, 4:07 AM
          1. What you posted does not prove that Christ pre-existed. - INCquisitor on Jul 2, 2014, 4:43 AM
            1. Merely saying that my post does not prove that Christ preexisted is not a rebuttal. - Michael on Jul 2, 2014, 5:18 AM
      2. Your post does not prove that Christ pre-existed. - INCquisitor on Jul 12, 2014, 4:25 AM
        1. That's what you say, and does not refute the truth that Christ existed from eternity. - Michael on Jul 12, 2014, 2:22 PM
          1. You have not proven through ANY verse that Christ pre-existed. - INCquisitor on Jul 12, 2014, 7:23 PM
            1. Re: You have not proven through ANY verse that Christ pre-existed. - Karlos on Jul 12, 2014, 9:58 PM
              1. Let me guess a possible reply Karlos. - Michael on Jul 13, 2014, 12:34 AM
                1. Re: Let me guess a possible reply Karlos. - Karlos on Jul 13, 2014, 4:46 AM
                  1. Well, he may well find a hard time, but - Michael on Jul 13, 2014, 7:38 AM
              2. To answer your question, we have to go back to John 17:12 (TEV). - INCquistor on Jul 13, 2014, 6:54 AM
                1. At least, you believe that the verses are not trash or adulterated. - Michael on Jul 13, 2014, 8:02 AM
                  1. Re: At least, you believe that the verses are not trash or adulterated. - Karlos on Jul 13, 2014, 8:06 PM
                    1. Confused I guess. Yes INCquisitor did say the Word is God. - Michael on Jul 14, 2014, 12:55 PM
                2. Re: To answer your question, we have to go back to John 17:12 (TEV). - Karlos on Jul 13, 2014, 11:19 PM
                  1. no answer? why? - Karlos on Jul 19, 2014, 12:31 AM
                  2. up - Karlos on Sep 26, 2014, 12:18 AM
            2. Answer the simple questions INCquisitor, or you just can't? - Michael on Jul 13, 2014, 1:31 AM
              1. Tell me Michael, is Christ "in the form of God" or "in the likeness of men?" - INCquistor on Jul 13, 2014, 8:14 AM
                1. Have you not read Phil. 2:5-8, that you still ask this question? - Michael on Jul 13, 2014, 11:16 AM
                  1. Are you saying then that Christ was NEITHER God NOR man? - INCquistor on Jul 13, 2014, 6:41 PM
                    1. No, rather, Christ is both God (Deity) and Man (human). - Michael on Jul 14, 2014, 3:31 PM
                      1. Christ was "rich" in the form of God before he became "poor" in the form of a se - INCquisitor on Jul 15, 2014, 5:45 PM
                      2. What riches did Christ gave up and became poor of, that the Christian may be rich of? - Michael on Jul 16, 2014, 12:43 PM
                      3. Re: What riches did Christ gave up and became poor of, that the Christian may be rich of? - INCquisitor on Sep 25, 2014, 7:10 PM
                      4. Christ gave up riches that the Christian may be rich of it. You apparently don't know. - Michael on Sep 28, 2014, 8:13 AM
                      5. UP FOR FCCC INCquisitor - Michael on Jul 18, 2014, 12:15 AM
     
  2. hey mike..is the baby jesus fake? View Thread - tf on Apr 4, 2014, 10:12 AM
    1. Have you easily forgotten what I said regarding the incarnation of the Son? - Michael on Apr 4, 2014, 1:59 PM
      1. so you admit that when jesus is a baby - tf on Apr 6, 2014, 9:22 PM
        1. He is like any human baby, except - Michael on Apr 6, 2014, 11:08 PM
          1. was he all powerfull and knowledgeable when he was a baby? - tf on Apr 7, 2014, 1:53 AM
            1. From the very instant He became flesh, he became like one of us, even in infancy. - Michael on Apr 22, 2014, 2:21 AM
              1. so you admit now that he has 2 consciouness - tf on Apr 22, 2014, 3:17 AM
                1. No. He is only one person. - Michael on Apr 22, 2014, 7:39 AM
                  1. 1 person but 2 consciousness for you - tf on Apr 22, 2014, 6:31 PM
                    1. You got it all wrong TF. One person, 1 consciousness. - Michael on Apr 22, 2014, 8:26 PM
                      1. oh really??so where is the all knowledgeable christ when he was a baby? - tf on Apr 23, 2014, 7:54 AM
                      2. Perhaps you will never understand TF. Go to this link and perhaps you'll understand. - Michael on Apr 23, 2014, 1:45 PM
                      3. u cannot evade the issue by showing link.. - tf on Apr 24, 2014, 8:19 AM
                      4. What can I say, if your understanding fails you? Do you know what is incarnation? - Michael on Apr 25, 2014, 1:03 PM
                      5. So to clarify, since he was incarnated, do you admit - Tomas on Apr 25, 2014, 5:31 PM
                      6. Re: So to clarify, since he was incarnated, do you admit - Michael on Apr 29, 2014, 11:43 AM
                      7. If he gave up the exercise of his divine attributes, as you say, - Tomas on May 2, 2014, 10:36 PM
                      8. To not know what happens in the Incarnation would really put one at a lost - Michael on May 15, 2014, 1:45 PM
                      9. Well, the Bible does not say what exactly happened at the incarnation. - Tomas on May 16, 2014, 7:24 PM
                      10. Re: Well, the Bible does not say what exactly happened at the incarnation. - Michael on May 16, 2014, 10:52 PM
                      11. You sure are being dogmatic about so many things, with no scriptural support - Tomas on May 17, 2014, 10:09 AM
                      12. Re: You sure are being dogmatic about so many things, with no scriptural support - Michael on May 18, 2014, 9:30 AM
                      13. Maybe it's a matter of semantics, about his attributes. - Tomas on May 24, 2014, 2:31 AM
                      14. Re: Maybe it's a matter of semantics, about his attributes. - Michael on May 27, 2014, 9:39 PM
                      15. Whatever, the Bible does not say if Jesus still had the attributes. - Tomas on May 30, 2014, 8:39 PM
                      16. Re: Whatever, the Bible does not say if Jesus still had the attributes. - Michael on Jun 22, 2014, 8:17 PM
                      17. Anyway, Jesus could be the Archangel, and he could be God at the same time. - Tomas on Jun 28, 2014, 3:45 AM
                      18. If that were so, then you make God to being an angel to just about anything you want - Michael on Jun 29, 2014, 2:37 AM
                      19. Not an angel. Only maybe the Archangel. Maybe - Tomas on Jul 5, 2014, 3:22 AM
                      20. Well then, you worship a creature in addition to God, as you say. I worship only God. - Michael on Jul 6, 2014, 5:49 AM
                      21. OK, I might worship a creature in addition to God, but that creature - Tomas on Jul 11, 2014, 8:06 PM
                      22. Quite a stand and belief you got there, worshiping a creature in addition to the Creator. - Michael on Jul 13, 2014, 7:29 AM
                      23. Michael, you say that worship of a creature is idolatry. Do you q - Tomas on Jul 19, 2014, 12:21 AM
                      24. Where in the "word of the Lord" does it say that... - INCquisitor on Jul 6, 2014, 6:12 AM
                      25. "divine" Jesus incarnated into the "human" Jesus? Where did you get that INCQUIS - Michael on Jul 6, 2014, 9:59 AM
                      26. Re: "divine" Jesus incarnated into the "human" Jesus? Where did you get that INC - tf on Sep 12, 2014, 3:58 AM
                      27. Incarnation - Inhinyero on Sep 12, 2014, 9:28 AM
                      28. incarnation is a pagan incention my engineer friend - tf on Sep 24, 2014, 3:07 AM
                      29. Pagan in origin - Inhinyero on Sep 24, 2014, 3:31 PM
                2. two will of Christ..one divine and human.... - inhinyero on Aug 27, 2014, 4:10 PM
                  1. May I ask you. - Michael on Aug 28, 2014, 2:05 AM
                    1. Nature and persons: - inhinyero on Aug 28, 2014, 2:22 PM
                      1. So, you believe Christ is only one person, not two, right? - Michael on Aug 28, 2014, 10:00 PM
                      2. two wills but one person - inhinyero on Aug 29, 2014, 10:13 AM
                      3. Inhinyero, my comments. - Michael on Aug 29, 2014, 12:30 PM
                      4. My response, Michael.... - inhinyero on Aug 29, 2014, 1:44 PM
                      5. Re: My response, Michael.... - Michael on Aug 30, 2014, 1:15 PM
                      6. Response to Michael 2.... - inhinyero on Aug 29, 2014, 2:12 PM
                      7. Re: Response to Michael 2.... - Michael on Aug 30, 2014, 12:33 PM
                      8. Two wills=two persons? - inhinyero on Aug 29, 2014, 10:30 AM
                      9. Re: Two wills=two persons? - Michael on Aug 29, 2014, 1:38 PM
                      10. two wills=two persons - inhinyero on Aug 29, 2014, 1:59 PM
                      11. Re: two wills=two persons - Michael on Aug 30, 2014, 11:56 AM
                      12. Scripture and Authority - inhinyero on Aug 29, 2014, 10:39 AM
                      13. Re: Scripture and Authority - Michael on Aug 29, 2014, 2:48 PM
                      14. Scripture and authority..Micheal - inhinyero on Aug 30, 2014, 9:57 AM
                      15. Scripture and Authority.....INHINYERO - Michael on Aug 31, 2014, 1:53 AM
                      16. Scripture and authority..Micheal part 2 - inhinyero on Aug 30, 2014, 10:06 AM
                      17. Scripture and Authority......INHINYERO part 2 - Michael on Aug 31, 2014, 3:27 AM
                      18. 1Cor 4:6 beyond what is written - inhinyero on Aug 30, 2014, 10:12 AM
                      19. But verse 6 does not say "written in those verses". - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 10:58 AM
                      20. go beyond what is written in the Bible. - inhinyero on Aug 30, 2014, 11:41 AM
                      21. It does not ban anything written in the Bible after 1 Cor. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 1:03 PM
                      22. 1Cor..beyond what is written.... - inhiyero on Sep 2, 2014, 12:36 PM
                      23. 1 Tim. etc. were written in the Bible, even though - Tomas on Sep 13, 2014, 1:23 AM
                      24. Re: 1Cor 4:6 beyond what is written - Michael on Aug 31, 2014, 5:38 AM
                      25. 1Cor 4: 6 - inhiyero on Sep 2, 2014, 12:43 PM
                      26. Re: 1Cor 4: 6 - Michael on Sep 3, 2014, 6:55 AM
                      27. 1Cor 4...2nd part - inhiyero on Sep 2, 2014, 12:48 PM
                      28. Re: 1Cor 4...2nd part - Michael on Sep 3, 2014, 7:25 AM
                      29. Michael...1cor4...does not refer to Scripture - inhinyero on Sep 4, 2014, 1:29 PM
                      30. INHINYERO, it does. - Michael on Sep 5, 2014, 10:21 AM
                      31. Michael..re: 1Cor4:16...does not prove what you want it to say - inhenyero on Sep 11, 2014, 1:02 PM
                      32. INHINYERO.. on 1 Cor.4:16. You seem to have not answered my questions. Please do so. - Michael on Sep 27, 2014, 11:53 AM
                      33. On the Gospel of Mark.... - inhenyero on Sep 11, 2014, 1:12 PM
                      34. Re: On the Gospel of Mark.... - Michael on Sep 28, 2014, 1:29 AM
                      35. On Sacred Tradition - inhenyero on Sep 11, 2014, 1:33 PM
                      36. Re: On Sacred Tradition - Michael on Sep 27, 2014, 11:19 PM
                      37. False Prophets..how to identify them? - Inhinyero on Sep 11, 2014, 1:40 PM
                      38. All who claim to be prophets today are false prophets, - Tomas on Sep 13, 2014, 1:47 AM
                      39. False Prophets..how to identify them? - Inhinyero on Sep 17, 2014, 8:02 AM
                      40. My answers: - Tomas on Sep 27, 2014, 2:27 AM
                      41. Re: False Prophets..how to identify them? - Michael on Sep 28, 2014, 3:59 AM
      2. Where did you get what you are saying? - INCquisitor on Jul 6, 2014, 6:05 AM
    2. the baby christ of michael is apparantly aLL KNOWING - tf on May 15, 2014, 1:34 AM
      1. Your understanding of what I'm saying is wrong. Read again and comprehend. - Michael on May 15, 2014, 1:51 PM
      2. he is actually the one not understanding his doctrine - tf on May 16, 2014, 6:01 AM
        1. paradox of baby jesus as God - inhinyero on Aug 28, 2014, 2:35 PM
    3. mike..ran away from this thread huh - tf on Aug 27, 2014, 3:44 AM
      1. Of course not TF, I'm not like you. - Michael on Aug 27, 2014, 8:37 AM
      2. so the baby christ alredy has full wisdom accdg toike - tf on Aug 27, 2014, 8:35 PM
        1. Your comprehension fails you TF. Quit accusing wrongly. It's what crucified Christ. - Michael on Aug 28, 2014, 1:14 AM
          1. so you understand how the baby jesus hid his wisdom and remaining an omnipotent God - tf on Sep 24, 2014, 3:05 AM
            1. Obviously you are not enabled to understand TF. Start with the Spirit, not with the flesh. - Michael on Sep 28, 2014, 4:08 AM
        2. Chris is God - inhinyero on Aug 28, 2014, 2:30 PM
          1. Of course you could be right, that Christ is God, - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 9:50 AM
            1. Christ it God - inhinyero on Aug 30, 2014, 10:24 AM
              1. I thought I made myself clear I am not in INC, when - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 11:27 AM
                1. Not INC - inhinyero on Aug 30, 2014, 11:44 AM
                  1. Not JW, they too are too dogmatic that Christ is not God. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 1:16 PM
                2. Sola Scriptura contradiction. - inhinyero on Aug 30, 2014, 11:47 AM
                  1. Read the post above, where I defend sola sciptura. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 1:23 PM
                    1. 1 cor 4:6 proves SS? - inhiyero on Sep 2, 2014, 12:51 PM
                      1. 1 Cor. 3:18-20 is not saying that worldly wisdom is what is written. - Tomas on Sep 13, 2014, 2:03 AM
                      2. 1Cor3:18 - Inhinyero on Sep 17, 2014, 8:08 AM
                      3. You were giving verses in 1 Cor. about what is written. - Tomas on Sep 27, 2014, 2:41 AM
          2. while you say that Christ chooses to hide his wisdom while he is a baby - tf on Sep 11, 2014, 10:16 PM
     
  3. Ask yourself. View Thread - Michael on Jun 15, 2014, 8:38 PM
    1. My answers: - Tomas on Jun 21, 2014, 8:17 AM
      1. Re: My answers: - Michael on Jul 2, 2014, 5:01 AM
        1. Re: My answers: - tf on Jul 2, 2014, 10:46 PM
          1. Go back to the post and answer properly. There are four questions, in case you don't know. - Michael on Jul 2, 2014, 11:15 PM
            1. I higlighted those two so far - tf on Jul 3, 2014, 1:23 AM
              1. Elucidate? Answer each questions, and I'll be most willing to comment after. - Michael on Jul 3, 2014, 11:28 AM
        2. Michael, I disagree mainly concerning your answer - Tomas on Jul 5, 2014, 2:20 AM
          1. How about the rest of my answers Tomas? - Michael on Jul 5, 2014, 2:38 PM
            1. In verse 15, the name he was referring to, - Tomas on Jul 11, 2014, 9:01 PM
              1. 'I AM has sent me to you.' - Michael on Jul 11, 2014, 9:55 PM
                1. OK, when God said "I WILL BE has sent me to you", - Tomas on Jul 19, 2014, 1:28 AM
                  1. God's answer is plain, direct, and clear. No need to explain by speculation. - Michael on Jul 22, 2014, 3:57 AM
                    1. It has to be explained to make the Bible harmonize. - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 2:58 AM
                      1. Of course Tomas. - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 11:15 AM
                      2. Yes, his name represents what he is. So he will - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 1:35 AM
                      3. Not calling God by the name YHWH does not mean that it ceased to be His name. - Michael on Aug 3, 2014, 7:49 AM
                      4. OK, so you agree with INC on this doctrine. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 10:52 AM
                      5. I am not aware of INC having this stand. It doesn't matter anyway. - Michael on Aug 9, 2014, 11:51 AM
                      6. Yes, that is what the minister one time was telling me. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 12:05 PM
                      7. Nonetheless, who is YHWH? - Michael on Aug 9, 2014, 12:43 PM
                      8. YHWH is the Father. At least that was his former name. - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 7:02 AM
                      9. For you Tomas perhaps. Obviously not for the Jews. - Michael on Aug 17, 2014, 4:21 AM
                      10. The Jews also believe YHWH is the Father. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 10:24 PM
                      11. "Father" in the sense that YHWH is the creator of all things. - Michael on Sep 2, 2014, 7:40 AM
                      12. But also in the sense of fatherhood. - Tomas on Sep 13, 2014, 11:36 AM
            2. Concerning your other 3 answers, I generally agree with you. - Tomas on Jul 11, 2014, 9:07 PM
              1. I'm glad you do. - Michael on Jul 11, 2014, 10:15 PM
                1. That last sentence of yours makes no sense. - Tomas on Jul 19, 2014, 1:34 AM
                  1. Makes no sense to you Tomas, I see. - Michael on Jul 20, 2014, 10:24 PM
                    1. You're right, Michael, Tomas doesn't understand Trinity. If he would, he would have never - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 21, 2014, 7:48 AM
                      1. I understand a huge amount about trinity, I have read - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 3:16 AM
                      2. Good that we can agree on something. Now do the next logical step and believe in it. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 26, 2014, 9:38 AM
                      3. God does not confuse me or you or INC members. - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 1:43 AM
                      4. As long as the devil clouds your mind with your false personal doctrine: " We are not - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Aug 2, 2014, 10:28 AM
                      5. Sorry, that doctrine is not from the devil but directly - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 10:31 AM
                    2. OK, Michael, you have explained what you really meant. - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 3:07 AM
                      1. There is no room for possibilities or uncertainties when it comes to having faith. - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 8:35 AM
                      2. Oh yes, there is. When the devil is reigning over you, there is! - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 26, 2014, 9:40 AM
                      3. Michael, I have faith in what the Bible tells us for certain. - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 2:46 AM
                      4. Well Tomas, that is not just what shows in your posts. - Michael on Aug 3, 2014, 11:22 PM
                      5. It does show in my posts, even if you don't think so. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 11:31 AM
                      6. As you say so Tomas. - Michael on Aug 9, 2014, 12:41 PM
                      7. Yes, I do. - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 6:59 AM
                      8. You do Tomas? - Michael on Aug 17, 2014, 4:10 AM
                      9. Yes. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 10:53 PM
                2. Please explsin. - INCquisitor on Aug 10, 2014, 6:33 AM
                  1. There is nothing to explain here INCQUISITOR. - Michael on Aug 10, 2014, 9:52 AM
        3. Re: My answers: - INCquisitor on Aug 2, 2014, 6:13 PM
          1. My comments on your answers INCquisitor. - Michael on Aug 3, 2014, 7:21 AM
            1. Re: My comments on your answers INCquisitor. - INCquisitor on Aug 10, 2014, 5:12 AM
              1. INCQUISTOR, why do you openly lie about Acts 2:36? - Michael on Aug 10, 2014, 11:17 AM
                1. I didn't lie about Acts 2:36. Peter preached what he learned from Jesus. - INCquisitor on Aug 10, 2014, 3:06 PM
                  1. Apparently you did INCquisitor. - Michael on Aug 13, 2014, 11:47 AM
     
  4. What's the difference between an adopted son and begotten Son of God? View Thread - Michael on Jun 30, 2014, 11:25 AM
    1. The begotten son has authority over adopted sons - INCquisitor on Jun 30, 2014, 4:52 PM
      1. You missed the question altogether INCQUISITOR. Try again. - Michael on Jun 30, 2014, 9:59 PM
        1. Because that's not the response you want to hear. - INCquisitor on Jul 1, 2014, 4:29 AM
          1. Re: Because that's not the response you want to hear. - Nelson C. Vidal, Jr. on Jul 1, 2014, 6:40 PM
          2. INCQUISITOR don't know the difference between a begotten and an adopted son? No wonder. - Michael on Jul 1, 2014, 9:37 PM
    2. IncQ, this will help you answer intelligently. Can you beget a dog? - Dean O'Gowan on Jul 1, 2014, 12:13 PM
      1. Colonel Blood-Dish, a little credit my way for presenting your Example would be nice. LOL - Oberst Ozzy Osborn on Jul 1, 2014, 4:32 PM
      2. There is no doubt that Jesus is the only begotten son of God. - INCquisitor on Jul 1, 2014, 6:25 PM
      3. IncQ cannot answer if he can beget a dog. IncQ cannot answer this. - Dean O'Gowan on Jul 2, 2014, 8:28 AM
        1. I can't beget a dog, but God can, if he wants to. - Tomas on Jul 5, 2014, 3:28 AM
          1. Seriously? - Michael on Jul 5, 2014, 1:01 PM
            1. Did God promise never to beget a dog? - Tomas on Jul 11, 2014, 9:09 PM
              1. Again, seriously? - Michael on Jul 11, 2014, 9:46 PM
                1. Yes, do you have a verse that God will never beget a dog? - Tomas on Jul 19, 2014, 1:37 AM
                  1. None. Apparently you seriously believe that God can beget a dog. Really weird. - Michael on Jul 20, 2014, 6:53 AM
                    1. You claim that what is begotten of God, necessarily has the same nature - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 3:20 AM
                      1. Yes, I do Tomas. - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 10:57 AM
                      2. But the Bible does not say even that nothing can come forth from Deity - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 1:07 AM
                      3. Well then Tomas, I'll just have to leave it that your God can beget a dog or whatever. - Michael on Aug 3, 2014, 9:38 AM
                      4. My God and your God, the biblical God, that we both believe in. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 8:55 AM
                      5. But Tomas, it's not about what He wants, but is about what is begotten of God. - Michael on Aug 9, 2014, 9:27 AM
                      6. Maybe he never does and never will. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 9:36 AM
                      7. He never can and never does Tomas. - Michael on Aug 10, 2014, 8:42 PM
                      8. OK, he cannot beget a male dog, because otherwise - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 6:11 AM
                      9. Yes, Tomas, that is who your God is. One who can beget even dogs. - Michael on Aug 17, 2014, 12:05 AM
                      10. Maybe he can't, but the Bible does not say he can't. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 7:44 PM
      4. Jesus tells me he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the Father is the ONLY true God (John 17:3). - INCquisitor on Jul 20, 2014, 8:52 AM
        1. So, INCquisitor, you admit you don't know what it means to a begotten & be an adopted. - Michael on Jul 20, 2014, 9:30 PM
    3. How about you Tomas, what is your answer to the OP? - Michael on Jul 5, 2014, 1:55 PM
      1. The begotten Son of God was biologically begotten by God - Tomas on Jul 11, 2014, 9:14 PM
        1. Jesus, biologically begotten by God? How was that? - Michael on Jul 11, 2014, 9:50 PM
          1. I guess God put in Mary some sperm of his, to fertilize - Tomas on Jul 19, 2014, 1:43 AM
            1. God's sperm? Certainly weird! God has sperm? WOW. What weird thoughts you got there. - Michael on Jul 20, 2014, 7:44 AM
              1. So maybe not a sperm, but you have to acknowledge - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 3:33 AM
                1. Certainly and not maybe, Tomas. - Michael on Jul 30, 2014, 1:24 AM
                  1. That might all be true, but you have not proven it was not God's sperm. - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 1:18 AM
                    1. Tomas, it's not that it might be true, rather it is the truth. - Michael on Aug 4, 2014, 1:27 AM
                      1. You can think what you want, it's your thing. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 9:31 AM
                      2. Right Tomas. I think about what scriptures say and not speculate on what it does not say. - Michael on Aug 14, 2014, 1:56 AM
                      3. So why speculate it was not a sperm? - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 6:19 AM
                      4. I'm not speculating Tomas. It is you who speculated about a sperm. - Michael on Aug 20, 2014, 7:20 AM
                      5. OK, you have a point there. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 8:22 PM
                      6. Re: OK, you have a point there. - Michael on Sep 5, 2014, 12:28 PM
                      7. OK, I went to that link. - Tomas on Sep 13, 2014, 5:31 AM
     
  5. truth no.1 The Great God is the Father alone View Thread - truthfinder on Apr 3, 2014, 3:24 AM
    1. God's scriptures says the One Great God is the Father of Jesus Christ. - Michael on Apr 3, 2014, 8:57 PM
      1. ahhh romans 9:5 you use to contradict the other verses - truthfinder on Apr 3, 2014, 9:41 PM
        1. No. I cited it because it is scriptures. - Michael on Apr 3, 2014, 10:58 PM
          1. ohh ok let's us consult a greek scholar..a trinitarian - truthfinder on Apr 4, 2014, 2:55 AM
            1. You agree with R.S. Frank in this. Yet, you don't agree in his belief that Christ is God. - Michael on Apr 4, 2014, 8:07 AM
              1. that shows how weak is your evidwnce...why dont you refute him. - tf on Apr 4, 2014, 9:56 AM
                1. He is only one among the many trinitarian scholars. He is not all of trinitarians. - Michael on Apr 4, 2014, 10:46 PM
                  1. there are other svholars you know..all trinitarians - tf on Apr 7, 2014, 1:52 AM
                    1. So what TF? Don't INC have FYM's teaching on Romans 9:5? - Michael on Apr 22, 2014, 2:32 AM
                    2. this is proof that your assertions about that verse is nit reliable - tf on Apr 22, 2014, 2:53 AM
                      1. So there is no FYM teaching on this. So you have no refutation to offer. - Michael on Apr 22, 2014, 7:43 AM
                      2. hmmm - tf on Apr 22, 2014, 6:17 PM
                      3. Obviously, this is not FYM's take on the verse, - Michael on Apr 22, 2014, 11:10 PM
                      4. so u r better than ur scholars? - tf on Apr 23, 2014, 7:52 AM
                      5. Post FYM's teaching if there is. Quote FYM, and not from scholars you allege as evil. - Michael on Apr 23, 2014, 1:51 PM
                      6. just admit you are wrong even your fellow trinitarians - tf on Apr 24, 2014, 8:21 AM
                      7. So there is no FYM teaching on this. So you have no refutation to offer. - Michael on Apr 24, 2014, 11:46 AM
                      8. why dont you refute the trinitarian scholars? - tf on Apr 25, 2014, 5:50 AM
                      9. Why bother yourself with that TF? What you must do is . . . - Michael on Apr 25, 2014, 12:38 PM
                      10. so your problem is?? - tf on Sep 11, 2014, 10:24 PM
    2. care to tefute mike - tf on Apr 6, 2014, 9:18 PM
      1. Done already. Have you not read my first response post TF? - Michael on Apr 6, 2014, 11:37 PM
        1. dont play with words my friend..the bible is very clear - tf on Apr 7, 2014, 1:47 AM
          1. If you don't know the difference TF, how can the Bible be clear to you? - Michael on Apr 22, 2014, 2:36 AM
            1. if you are not trinitarian since u r a baby - tf on Apr 22, 2014, 2:55 AM
              1. Apparently you affirmed you don't know the difference. - Michael on Apr 22, 2014, 7:51 AM
                1. no philoeophy christ clearly teaches that we recognize his father as the only true.. - tf on Apr 24, 2014, 8:23 AM
                  1. His Father as the only true God, but not necessarily his Father alone - Tomas on Sep 13, 2014, 2:26 AM
     
  6. Facts about the the Trinity View Thread - truthfinder on Apr 9, 2014, 1:31 AM
    1. Greek Philosophy's Influence on the Trinity Doctrine - truthfinder on Apr 9, 2014, 1:32 AM
    2. Is the Trinity Biblical? - truthfinder on Apr 9, 2014, 1:35 AM
      1. The word Bible is unbiblical just like Trinity - bobbyisfriend on Apr 10, 2014, 9:44 PM
        1. monotheism is not in the bible - tf on Apr 10, 2014, 10:00 PM
        2. Bobby, there is no three persons in one God. - emmanuel on Apr 11, 2014, 6:19 AM
          1. Malachi 2:10 does not say that all of God is the Father. - Tomas on Apr 11, 2014, 10:10 PM
            1. facts cannot be refuted by your assumptions - tf on Sep 11, 2014, 10:26 PM
              1. No, it is your assumption that Mal. 2:10 says that the Father is all of God. - Tomas on Sep 13, 2014, 2:12 AM
     
  7. TOMAS, INCers, INCquisitor: Does to beget means to create? View Thread - Michael on Jul 31, 2014, 3:04 PM
    1. If we follow their line of thinking then, yes... - Albert on Aug 1, 2014, 10:44 PM
      1. This is why I supposed they don't respond to this, as they will find themselves deceived. - Michael on Aug 1, 2014, 10:54 PM
        1. Be patient, I am finally here, on this forum. - Tomas on Aug 1, 2014, 11:06 PM
          1. Sorry Tomas. I would have been clearer as to exclude you there. - Michael on Aug 4, 2014, 5:31 AM
            1. OK, thank you. Apology accepted. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 7:20 AM
    2. No, I would say that Christ was created in the beginning, and not begotten until - Tomas on Aug 1, 2014, 11:04 PM
      1. So Tomas, did your father who begot you created you? - Michael on Aug 4, 2014, 5:28 AM
        1. He created me in cooperation with my mother. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 7:53 AM
          1. Re: He created me in cooperation with my mother. - Michael on Aug 14, 2014, 4:26 AM
            1. We can create things. - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 6:02 AM
              1. So now, you say man can create things and so is a creator, like God? - Michael on Aug 20, 2014, 7:48 AM
                1. OK, it is again a matter of semantics, what does the verb create mean. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 7:30 PM
        2. Re: So Tomas, did your father who begot you created you? - INCquisitor on Aug 10, 2014, 10:25 AM
          1. INCQUISITOR, did your father who begot you created you? - Michael on Aug 10, 2014, 1:14 PM
            1. Psalm 2:7 does not prove that Christ pre-existed. - INCquisitor on Aug 10, 2014, 5:24 PM
              1. Explain that to yourself INCQUISITOR. - Michael on Aug 10, 2014, 10:09 PM
     
  8. Scriptures that testify of the deity of Christ. John 5:18 View Thread - Michael on Jul 7, 2014, 12:57 PM
    1. Compare John 5:18 with John 10:29 and John 14:28. - INCquisitor on Jul 7, 2014, 3:27 PM
      1. INCquisitor, John 5:18 is a statement of truth, not some conclusion by John, who wrote it. - Michael on Jul 8, 2014, 12:00 AM
        1. Whose "statement of truth" is John 5:18? Yours, the Jews or John? - INCquisitor on Jul 8, 2014, 4:40 AM
          1. If you don't know it yet, it is John who wrote and testified in John 5:18 - Michael on Jul 8, 2014, 12:47 PM
            1. Tell me, how did John know what the Jews were thinking? - INCquisitor on Jul 8, 2014, 5:35 PM
              1. Do you really ask that? How did John knew what he wrote, except that - Michael on Jul 8, 2014, 11:17 PM
                1. The Holy Spirit inspired John to write what the Jews were thinking. - INCquisitor on Jul 9, 2014, 4:33 AM
                  1. The HS inspired John to write in Jn 5:18, why the Jews sought all the more to kill Jesus. - Michael on Jul 9, 2014, 4:29 PM
                    1. Apparently, INCquisitor is stalled by this post. - Michael on Jul 24, 2014, 1:33 AM
              2. LOL, "how did the John know what the Jews were thinking?" THAT question can only be asked - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 16, 2014, 3:43 PM
                1. Exactly my point Guenter. You got it. - Michael on Jul 16, 2014, 10:16 PM
                  1. Of course, anybody in good command of the English and other languages will understand it - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 17, 2014, 8:18 AM
                2. It is NOT true that Jesus made himself equal with God. - INCquisitor on Jul 17, 2014, 5:24 PM
                  1. You need to work on your language skills and knowledge of Judaic Law! - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 17, 2014, 8:58 PM
                    1. My language skills are fine and I do not need Judaic law. I'm not a Jew. - INCquisitor on Jul 19, 2014, 6:20 PM
                      1. Here ya go my friend, you do not need to know...YES, you DO need to know because Judaic - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 20, 2014, 11:49 AM
                      2. The Jews sought to kill Jesus because they THOUGHT,... - INCquisitor on Jul 20, 2014, 2:50 PM
                      3. My last response to you, dear friend. If you don't get it, you'll never get the truth. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 20, 2014, 3:28 PM
                      4. The WISDOM of God is truly HIDDEN from the perishing! - INCquisitor on Jul 25, 2014, 5:43 PM
                      5. I agree INCquisitor, that the wisdom of God is hidden from those perishing. - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 1:55 AM
                      6. INCquisitor, I can see that the truth shall not only set you free, but stalled you as well - Michael on Aug 14, 2014, 11:55 PM
              3. Here, let me try to help you out INCquisitor. - Michael on Jul 20, 2014, 10:04 PM
                1. Apparently, INCquisitor again is stalled b y this post. - Michael on Jul 24, 2014, 1:34 AM
    2. Tomas, TF, care to comment? - Michael on Jul 9, 2014, 4:32 PM
      1. Yes, the hostile Jews thought that when Christ called God his - Tomas on Jul 11, 2014, 7:23 PM
        1. Perhaps you can point that out in John 5. And I say that is your assumption, not the Jews. - Michael on Jul 12, 2014, 2:00 PM
          1. Just because he stated he works on the Sabbath, by - Tomas on Jul 18, 2014, 11:13 PM
            1. Tomas, study carefully John 5:18. - Michael on Jul 22, 2014, 6:18 AM
              1. John says the hostile Jews gave reasons for wanting to kill Jesus. - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 12:39 AM
                1. Tomas you really need to study John 5:18, and also what Sabbath is. - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 4:19 AM
                  1. To break a law is to sin. - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 4:30 AM
                    1. I agree. But I did not say that Jesus have broken the Law, did I? - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 6:36 AM
                      1. No, you did not. But did the Father break the Sabbath? - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 3:26 AM
                      2. Tomas, why do you ask if the Father broke the Sabbath? Is he a man under the law? - Michael on Aug 8, 2014, 6:54 AM
                      3. Well, the Son did not break the Sabbath either. - Tomas on Aug 8, 2014, 11:55 PM
                      4. Re: Well, the Son did not break the Sabbath either. - Michael on Aug 15, 2014, 1:56 PM
                      5. The Son, being the Son, did not break the Sabbath. - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 2:45 AM
                      6. The Son, Jesus Christ, fulfilled the whole Law, including the Sabbath. - Michael on Aug 22, 2014, 12:41 AM
                      7. Of course he fulfilled the whole Law, including the laws he revealed. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 2:33 PM
        2. Tom, you are as language impaired as INCquisitor. For more details see my response to him. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 16, 2014, 3:50 PM
          1. No, all in John 5:18 was the thinking of the hostile Jews. - Tomas on Jul 18, 2014, 11:25 PM
            1. You're calling John a liar. According to Judaic Law, Jesus, if he were a mere man, - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 19, 2014, 9:46 AM
              1. John is not telling us that Jesus is equal with God. - INCquisitor on Jul 20, 2014, 3:14 PM
                1. You're repeating yourself. See my "very last response". - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 20, 2014, 3:31 PM
                2. So INCquisitor, you're saying that John lied. - Michael on Jul 24, 2014, 10:52 AM
                  1. As I just told Guenter, John did not lie but reported truthfully - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 12:55 AM
                    1. John did not report, rather he stated a situation and the reason thereof. - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 4:31 AM
                      1. Michael, I totally agree with you. You're not language impaired like Tomas and Incquisitor - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 26, 2014, 9:52 AM
                      2. :) - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 10:38 AM
                      3. Michael, John stated the reasons the hostile Jews gave. - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 3:30 AM
                      4. John 5:18 is not about John agreeing or not. He just stated a situation & the reasons. - Michael on Aug 4, 2014, 8:36 AM
                      5. The situation, the reasons, is what the hostile Jews charged him with. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 12:00 AM
                      6. Tomas, answer the simple question. - Michael on Aug 14, 2014, 11:42 PM
                      7. I am answering it. - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 2:52 AM
                      8. Tomas, my comments on your answers. - Michael on Aug 21, 2014, 1:42 PM
                      9. My comment to your comments. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 2:41 PM
                    2. Tomas, Jesus clearly broke the Sabbath according to Judaic Law as a mere human being. THAT - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 26, 2014, 9:48 AM
                      1. Yes, but Jesus gave them a new law, the law that says - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 3:39 AM
                      2. Here ya go, Jesus broke Judaic Law and needed to be stoned to death. It's not only the - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Aug 2, 2014, 10:23 AM
                      3. In their eyes, yes. But not in the eyes of God, - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 12:09 AM
              2. No, Guenter, I am not calling John a liar. John truthfully - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 12:52 AM
                1. Tomas, Tomas! How many Jews broke the Sabbath in those times? None but Jesus? And any time - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 26, 2014, 10:11 AM
                  1. Yes, plenty of Jews broke the Sabbath, especially in those times - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 4:14 AM
                    1. You're writing too much. Why are you wasting your an my time to explain what we agree on, - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Aug 2, 2014, 10:19 AM
                      1. No, I did not say only Jews are affected by that Law. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 12:19 AM
        3. It's what you say Tomas, not the apostle John said and wrote. - Michael on Jul 22, 2014, 6:20 AM
          1. Do you think Jesus really broke the Sabbath? - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 12:59 AM
            1. Tomas, not that it is what I think, but it is what John tells us. But, - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 4:39 AM
              1. John tells us the reasons the hostile Jews gave, - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 4:17 AM
                1. Tomas, he could have. But you must try to understand what John 5:18 plainly says. - Michael on Aug 8, 2014, 9:20 AM
                  1. I do understand what John 5:18 plainly says. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 12:44 AM
                    1. Oh, do you Tomas? - Michael on Aug 14, 2014, 11:29 PM
                      1. Yes, but you don't, you think John agreed Jesus did so. - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 3:24 AM
                      2. Tomas, there is nothing John should agree or disagree with the Jews. He wrote the truth. - Michael on Aug 22, 2014, 3:51 PM
                      3. John wrote the truth about what those Jews claimed. But he did not agree. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 3:16 PM
     
  9. Who was John speaking about in 1 John 3:5, who was manifested to take away sin? View Thread - Michael on Jul 10, 2014, 6:29 AM
    1. INCquisitor, Tomas, TruthFinder? - Michael on Jul 11, 2014, 1:03 AM
    2. It is not the 'whoever' of verse 4, a new subject was introduced - Tomas on Jul 11, 2014, 7:18 PM
      1. Didn't quite get what you are saying there about 'whoever' - Michael on Jul 13, 2014, 1:49 AM
        1. The grammatical subject in 1 John 3:4 is 'whoever'. - Tomas on Jul 19, 2014, 12:30 AM
          1. Oh. Ok. - Michael on Jul 20, 2014, 12:48 AM
            1. Yes, in ASV the subject in verse 4 is "every one that doeth...". - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 4:20 AM
              1. Re: Yes, in ASV the subject in verse 4 is "every one that doeth...". - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 8:19 AM
                1. The Father too will be manifested. - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 4:58 AM
                  1. Re: The Father too will be manifested. - Michael on Aug 8, 2014, 1:18 PM
                    1. The Father will come. - Tomas on Aug 8, 2014, 9:31 PM
                      1. The Son is Him who will come. He's the one I'm waiting for to come. How 'bout you Tomas? - Michael on Aug 15, 2014, 2:04 AM
                      2. I am waiting for both to come. - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 1:56 AM
                      3. Is that so w/ you Tomas? When will the Father come? Before or after the Son, or together? - Michael on Aug 22, 2014, 2:48 AM
                      4. Maybe together, or maybe one will shortly follow the other. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 9:40 AM
    3. why he has no sin?is it because he is God? - tf on Jul 19, 2014, 3:05 AM
      1. That is not the question TF. Pls take a hold of your comprehension. - Michael on Jul 19, 2014, 8:08 PM
        1. im stating a fact on the issue of sin - tf on Jul 26, 2014, 10:17 AM
          1. Well TF, perhaps you can state that elsewhere, and stick to the topic at the OP. - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 10:35 AM
    4. What do you want to hear Michael? - INCquisitor on Jul 19, 2014, 5:31 AM
      1. Your answer INCquisitor. - Michael on Jul 19, 2014, 8:06 PM
    5. John was speaking of Christ Jesus, whom God manifested - INCquisitor on Aug 8, 2014, 5:46 PM
      1. Re: John was speaking of Christ Jesus, whom God manifested - Michael on Aug 15, 2014, 9:22 PM
      2. And INCquisitor, who do you say is Him spoken in 1 John 2:28-29? - Michael on Aug 15, 2014, 9:33 PM
        1. A follow up on this INCquisitor. Hope you were not stalled yet again. - Michael on Aug 27, 2014, 8:49 AM
    6. How about you TF? Running away from this? - Michael on Aug 27, 2014, 8:51 AM
     
  10. OK, Michael, these forums are taking too long, View Thread - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 10:05 AM
  11.  
 
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